Studs and Duds vs The Lions

[OldSchool101]

Another random thing - was thinking yesterday that in this instance I would've liked it if we had taken the ball first rather than defer. We heard all week in the run up to the game that Detroit's defense was all banged up. What better opportunity to set the tone than to take the ball and drive down and score right on that depleted defense? Yet again I find myself feeling like we are generally content to let our opponent make the first move and dictate terms and us respond rather than the other way around.

Exactly. In hindsight I would’ve taken the ball first. Ran a no-huddle Offense and targeted quick 5 yard passes. Ball comes out in 2 sec type plays.

 

[Pkrjones]

I was wondering the same thing last night and thought maybe Love's pick 6's has removed those calls off of MLF's call sheet?

I'm also going to say it again. Matt needs to hand his play sheet to a full time OC. Ben Johnson once again schooled Matt on effective play calling. I don't doubt Matt has a solid offensive mind, I just think he is juggling too many balls to do it well.

MLF can have his pre-game fingerprints all over the playcall sheet, but I think you're right, that HC needs to manage the game, clock, situationals/metrics, etc. Leave in-game detailed formations & playcalls to the OC. MLF can have some input, but would rather he manage the game instead of the offense.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

LeFluer, "Disappointed for our guys"; uh, it was those guys who disappointed you, themselves and the fans for inconsistent play, poor execution on key plays, more mistakes (penalties) and overall "just not good enough". Love is not playing like a $50M/yr QB, he is inconsistent, acts at times like he does not know what he needs to do, has difficulty with short touch passes (end zone pass to TE); Receivers especially Watson is so inconsistent that frankly they should be considering moving him out of GB (yes I know, he has speed and can make great plays like the 59 yr pass), problem is that he loses concentration (drops), makes mistakes (pick play) and IMO creates more problems than solutions by his play. The OL can get VG, other times they are a sieve, DB's and LB's are suspect in every facet of their game, tackling, coverage, positioning and communication with each other.

Interesting the number of new players Detroit has picked up this season that played key roles in their win last night, the Lions were aggressive, played nasty and tough throughout the game. There was NEVER any thought in my mind that Detroit was not going to score again after the last GB score, on the other hand every time GB had the ball it was a question if they could move the chains and possibly score. This Detroit team should get into the SB unless they somehow fall apart or their HC has a bad game calling plays on O or D. GB, lucky to be in the playoffs, possibly gets to a 2nd round but no further the way they are playing now. Jacobs was again exceptional and with a good OL he could be running for more yards than he has today. Their GM and HC need to think about how they are going to get to elite status, today at best they are 2nd tier in NFL, not first tier;

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

MLF can have his pre-game fingerprints all over the playcall sheet, but I think you're right, that HC needs to manage the game, clock, situationals/metrics, etc. Leave in-game detailed formations & playcalls to the OC. MLF can have some input, but would rather he manage the game instead of the offense.

Fully agree.

When the Packers defense trots out there, that is when the OC should be huddling with his coaches/players and making adjustments. Maybe assistants are doing that, but how is MLF kept in that loop, if he is busy HC'ing while the defense is out there? This also applies to all the time between Sundays. A guy like Ben Johnson is totally hunkered down and studying the other teams defense, planning how he is going to beat it. Meanwhile, MLF has a ton of other things on his plate.

This really isn't a big knock on MLF, more where the game has gone too. Offensive geniuses getting paid to strictly run their offenses at a level above others. Maybe Matt can do that some of the time, but it really doesn't feel like he does it all of the time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They are the best RB duo in the league. IMO the screens and dump offs to the RBs is why the defense could not stop Detroit.

Throw in the Lions short passes to TE's and WR's and you had a Packer defense that doesn't know what to do.

Honestly, those plays were there for the Packers as well. So I am not so sure it was the difference in the 2 teams defenses and offenses having better players, more than it was Jared Goff, Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson and Aaron Glen,
thoroughly outplaying/thinking/coaching Jordan Love, Matt LaFleur and Jeff Hafley.

Basically, the Packers got outcoached and QB managed at the LOS.

 

[Heyjoe4]

DC

DC?

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

Throw in the Lions short passes to TE's and WR's and you had a Packer defense that doesn't know what to do.

Honestly, those plays were there for the Packers as well. So I am not so sure it was the difference in the 2 teams defenses and offenses having better players, more than it was Jared Goff, Dan Campbell, Ben Johnson and Aaron Glen,
thoroughly outplaying/thinking/coaching Jordan Love, Matt LaFleur and Jeff Hafley.

Basically, the Packers got outcoached and QB managed at the LOS.

Detroit has been running screens all year, did Hafley's D not know that? Seems like every screen but one was "a surprise" the D line and LB's.

 

[OldSchool101]

They are the best RB duo in the league. IMO the screens and dump offs to the RBs is why the defense could not stop Detroit.

The Lions do a good job of using their RB’s in the Pass game. However that RB duo combined for 11 catches 63 yards or 5.7 per catch. It was a compliment to them playing keep away from Jordan Love though si it did factor. Compliment to tearing us up in the middle of the field.
Detroits 4 WR’s EACH had longs of 16,18,23,28 just those 4 passes totaled 85 yards and 4 1st downs.

I’d almost look to the opposite side of the field. What was the total production from Packer RB’s in the passing game?
0/0/0 0 0 0

The 1 area I would argue was the most crucial antidote for an over aggressive pass rush? Quick dumping it off quickly to a RB (or TE) It was clear as day that we avoided our RB’s on purpose. There would be no other logic to explain it. Mind boggling after all the lip service all offseason about how we’d get Josh more involved in the Pass game. We did have 1 pass to a TE in the first half though at least we tried!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Detroit has been running screens all year, did Hafley's D not know that? Seems like every screen but one was "a surprise" the D line and LB's.

I think Hafley knew it, he just doesn't have the weapons to stop it. McDuffie is a good run stopper, but he's not very good when it comes to pass coverage.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We scored 31 offensive points on just 44 plays. How often does that happen?

Only when the other team scores more than 31 points

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now that they have had some success, are the Lion fans starting to act like Eagles fans?

Packers HC Matt LaFleur slams the Lions over poor security conditions at Ford Field

Matt LaFleur is not only angry because the Green Bay Packers lost to the Lions in Week 14, but also because of the poor security conditions their rivals provided at Ford Field.

bolavip.com

 

[Voyageur]

I was wondering why MLF was so livid before and after the 2 minute warning. Turns out it was a bunch of things (article below).

I still don't know how the Lions kept getting away with hitting Love well after the pass was released. The hit to the head from Za'Darius was a blatantly missed call. I do find it odd/funny/pathetically sad that the league is pretending to crack down on blows to the head, yet a play like that, can't be called on a quick review or even a coaches challenge. Yet, minor infractions can be reversed with or even without a challenge.

I don't really like pissing and moaning about bad ref calls, but that group out there last might was about as inconsistent as they come.

Ref show: Packers fuming after controversial calls hand Lions huge divisional win

Green Bay was playing Detroit and the refs on Thursday night.

fansided.com

They definitely "saw" more Packers committing penalties than Lions. Especially since, as I mentioned early today, the Lions constantly run screens on those short passing routes. There was at least 4 or 5 good gain plays for the Lions that should have been flagged as much as Watson was. But they seemed to "miss them." Yes, that was a push off on Nixon on the play that put them in position to go for it on 4th down. It was blatant, and Nixon actually stumbled back a step from it. Still, no call, and an official standing on top of the play. What's frustrating is that what appeared to be bad calls did two specific things that directly changed the score. First, the so called pick by Watson took points off the board for the Packers, and the missed offensive pass interference that should have been called when Nixon was pushed put them in position to go for it on 4th and short. They ended up scoring from there. That's an 11 point swing orchestrated by lousy officiating. This should not be overlooked by the league.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah I didn’t realize but St Brown ripping our players helmet off is a flag 99% of the time. I don’t understand how a Ref can deny seeing a helmet on the ground?
I’ve never seen players rip helmets off that weren’t involved in the play without a flag going to either side. It’s a foul it’s more which player caused it?it’s unsportsmanlike conduct and a 15 yarder automatic 1st Down.

Detroit is physical. But they play with a dirty feel. Reminds me of Anthony Bahr in MN

 

[milani]

Getting Closer....
Last time Lions beat us by 10, this time by 3, if there is a next time I feel the tables will be reversed, and if there is a next time it will be the most important of the 3 Lions games.

Goff had to throw 40 plus passes. That is not in the Lions game plan. They did not take much in the way of long shots. They dominated TOP and number of plays and still had to hit the last one. Their two big mistakes in the game were the INT and the one 4th down they did not make. Cost them 14. Our 2 blips were the Watson fumble and the Watson penalty. Cost us 3 and 4. We held the Lions to 111 rushing but they held us under 100. We have to be able to match them in the run game and drive down the field to keep their offense on the sideline.
I do think the Vikings have a shot at beating them. Their front 7 is very physical and disguises itself as good as anyone in the league. If they give Darnold time he can cut them up with his receivers especially since Hockenson is back.

 

[milani]

That's a good, accurate summary. The Lions came out on D knowing they were overmatched against the Packers offense, and simply went after Love. The Packers adjusted before half time, but it cost them. It was a brilliant risk to take on the part of the Lions.

The Vikings went with the same game plan against us. They stacked, put the pressure on us and before you know it we were down 28-0. Our success most of the season has been running the ball and moving the sticks. Teams that stack the box to stop your run dare you to beat them in the air, particularly over the top. But we have a young QB and young receivers and we do not adjust as well to that.

 

[milani]

Exactly. In hindsight I would’ve taken the ball first. Ran a no-huddle Offense and targeted quick 5 yard passes. Ball comes out in 2 sec type plays.

We have taken the ball more when we win the toss. Not this time. Anyway, we did come out in the second half and go down the field and score.

 

[Team Ronny]

On both td passes to Patrick..our dbs looked confused. If Nixon is the best corner they have out there..they are ****** come playoffs!!!

 

[milani]

On both td passes to Patrick..our dbs looked confused. If Nixon is the best corner they have out there..they are ****** come playoffs!!!

That is why we had Alexander, Stokes, and previously Rasul Douglas on the roster. They were the ones we counted on to be playmaker in drives as such. But one gets hurt all the time, one lost his mojo, and we gave away the other. Nixon is there because he shows up every week. The main reason we kept him was for kickoffs before they changed the rules. The man is getting a ton of PT.

 

[chemist]

That is why we had Alexander, Stokes, and previously Rasul Douglas on the roster. They were the ones we counted on to be playmaker in drives as such. But one gets hurt all the time, one lost his mojo, and we gave away the other. Nixon is there because he shows up every week. The main reason we kept him was for kickoffs before they changed the rules. The man is getting a ton of PT.

Going thru the threads here just one observation, even with all the negatives people mentioned, the officials, the bad calls, the missed calls, the defense, no pass rush, goff had to much time, the center of the field was to open, not enough depth etc etc etc even with all that we lost by 3 pts to a team that had been whompung the heck out of almost every other team they faced. We basically kept pace with one of the most potent offenses in the nfl this year so even with all the bad things mentioned, to me.. not to shabby of a result. They happened to get the last possession and made good use of it. Maybe the next time we meet them things might be a little different

 

[Firethorn1001]

Packers HC Matt LaFleur slams the Lions over poor security conditions at Ford Field

Matt LaFleur is not only angry because the Green Bay Packers lost to the Lions in Week 14, but also because of the poor security conditions their rivals provided at Ford Field.

bolavip.com

Is that site AI generated?

'At 9-4, the Packers currently hold the 6th seed in the NFC, but with the rest of Week 14’s games yet to be played, their playoff position is still uncertain. To secure a spot in the Wild Card round, they must maintain a positive record moving forward'

Maintain a positive record moving forward? No kidding...

 

[Voyageur]

What you see, as a fan, on TV, isn't necessarily the reality of how the game was played, based on the assignments players have been given on a play by play basis. Fans tend to concentrate directly on the play, where the ball is, and see nothing else because of this tunnel vision. Although they aren't always accurate, the PFF rankings do take into consideration a lot of things that you don't see during a play, much of which takes place "off camera." So, when you say someone is ******** up out there, or playing great, they might look good on specific plays but bomb out on a lot of plays where you don't see the mistakes they make in their assignments.​

A perfect example of the false reads on seeing plays is how Nixon played. He actually stepped up and handled the assignments in an increased role. Also, even though I did see some mistakes, I thought Zayne Anderson and Eric Stokes did reasonably well. They weren't in the top five, nor in the bottom 5, but held up well enough that the Lions couldn't make it a runaway.

PFF Ratings:​

Top 5 offense​

1. QB Jordan Love: 83.8
2. WR Dontayvion Wicks: 78.6
3. LG Elgton Jenkins: 72.9
4. RT Zach Tom: 72.0
5. RB Chris Brooks: 69.3​

Bottom 5 offense​

1. C Josh Myers: 37.1
2. TE Ben Sims: 43.5
3. WR Jayden Reed: 44.5
4. WR Christian Watson: 56.3
5. TE Tucker Kraft: 61.2

Top 5 defense​

1. DL Kenny Clark: 80.1
2. CB Keisean Nixon: 76.4
3. DE Arron Mosby: 76.4
4. DL Devonte Wyatt: 73.9
5. DE Lukas Van Ness: 68.4

Bottom 5 defense​

1. CB Javon Bullard: 30.0
2. DL Colby Wooden: 41.2
3. DL TJ Slaton: 46.9
4. DE Brenton Cox Jr: 47.9
5. DL Karl Brooks: 51.6

 

[gopkrs]

Not sure it's a dud but on that last 4th down play that closed the door; we should maybe have had two corners covering and all the rest just bombarding the whole line at the snap. The chances were almost nil that they would pass.

 

[rmontro]

Four games left. Unless I miss something, we need to lose three of the next four games before we even have to face the possibility of missing the playoffs.

 

[Schultz]

The Lions do a good job of using their RB’s in the Pass game. However that RB duo combined for 11 catches 63 yards or 5.7 per catch. It was a compliment to them playing keep away from Jordan Love though si it did factor. Compliment to tearing us up in the middle of the field.
Detroits 4 WR’s EACH had longs of 16,18,23,28 just those 4 passes totaled 85 yards and 4 1st downs.

I’d almost look to the opposite side of the field. What was the total production from Packer RB’s in the passing game?
0/0/0 0 0 0

The 1 area I would argue was the most crucial antidote for an over aggressive pass rush? Quick dumping it off quickly to a RB (or TE) It was clear as day that we avoided our RB’s on purpose. There would be no other logic to explain it. Mind boggling after all the lip service all offseason about how we’d get Josh more involved in the Pass game. We did have 1 pass to a TE in the first half though at least we tried!

Don't we have to blame your man C. Watson for that?

 

[BrokenArrow]

You think I was trashing them like they got blown out? We lost. I listed two reasons why that happened.

I think the bigger problem is you blaming the refs for why we lost. That's petty. Win the game on the field. Don't leave it up to a ref's call or non-call.

Nope. It's not "petty" when the play in question is clear, obvious, textbook OPI that results in the ball being immediately put in easy FG range in the final seconds instead of the other side of the 50 where it should be. When two good teams play it's usually close. If you think officials don't affect games, you're extremely naive.

Yeah. Win the game on the field... if you're allowed.