Studs and Duds vs The Lions

[Heyjoe4]

It sounds like you haven't been watching recently. The D line is playing well and with intensity. The open receivers are killing us. And so we have to let the linebackers play tight on short passes. They don't do much good backing up. It's like they back up to the point where the QBs can throw it over their heads or underneath. They are in no man's land imho.

The D line has stepped it up in the last month or so. And that's pretty much the entire line. Gary and Clark have finally re-emerged, LVN is getting closer and closer to the ball and causing some havoc, Engabare and Brooks have shown some real life. Maybe it's taken them this long to adjust to Hafley's 4-3? I don't know but they're playing their best ball at the right time.

The S group needs both McKinney AND Williams on the field. The corners have been very disappointing. JA can't stay on the field, Stokes is JAG, Nixon is ok and no one else merits much mention. They're getting killed in zone and I wish Hafley would simply blitz more.

It's not a top 5 D, and if the offense would continue to put up points, the D doesn't have to be top 5.

 

[mradtke66]

The D line has stepped it up in the last month or so. And that's pretty much the entire line. Gary and Clark have finally re-emerged, LVN is getting closer and closer to the ball and causing some havoc, Engabare and Brooks have shown some real life. Maybe it's taken them this long to adjust to Hafley's 4-3?

I think is has been a combination of playing mobile quarterbacks early, perhaps over-emphasising run defense and gap integrity over pass rush, and a little bit of adjustment. 3-4 OLB vs. 4-3 DE roles aren't that different, so it's probably the nuances of things that Hafley wants to protect and in what order.

 

[chemist]

It sounds like you haven't been watching recently. The D line is playing well and with intensity. The open receivers are killing us. And so we have to let the linebackers play tight on short passes. They don't do much good backing up. It's like they back up to the point where the QBs can throw it over their heads or underneath. They

I think is has been a combination of playing mobile quarterbacks early, perhaps over-emphasising run defense and gap integrity over pass rush, and a little bit of adjustment. 3-4 OLB vs. 4-3 DE roles aren't that different, so it's probably the nuances of things that Hafley wants to protect and in what order.

OK. So my view is this. The offense has put things together. They have regularly been putting up 30+ pts per game. Enough to win. Our D on the other hand hasn’t made that turn yet. Whether its the players on the field not connecting with each other, or the coaches not connecting with the players, or the coaches not coming up with the right schemes and strategies.... whatever it is I’m sure they are working on it. Once they figure out the right combinations we will have a good chance of surpassing the run we made last year.

 

[mradtke66]

Our D on the other hand hasn’t made that turn yet.

We're closer than you probably realize. We're 16th in total yards at 329.1 per game. 3rd is 301.1. 10th, the Lions, are 318.6, or 10.5 yards per game more than us.

By points allowed, we're 9th.

 

[milani]

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I'm still not ready to concede that Minnesota is better than us. They keep winning every week though, so maybe it's just deliberate blindness. We'll find out more when we next play them.

Next week we play the Seahawks. Which is interesting because if the season ended today, we would be playing the Seahawks in Seattle, just like we will be doing next week.

Seattle is a good team. They have some weaknesses. To win in Seattle the team has to show some maturity. These are the kind of games in which the mental errors can be the difference in a close contest. I hope our intensity is at a high level. NLF has to play this like a playoff game.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Brutal End for LA. It’s what Great teams understand. Clock utilization, timeout utilization, execution of those is paramount. Chiefs literally bled the Chargers #1 Defense slowly and methodically.

Watching the final stages of that game, I kept thinking that what I was seeing was a lesson in the differences between Andy Reid and Matt Lafleur.

No insult to Lafleur; I think he's a very good coach. But very few coaches can compare to Reid. As good as Lafleur may be, he's not a guy who is going to outcoach Andy Reid in the last few minutes of a close ballgame.

 

[milani]

Watching the final stages of that game, I kept thinking that what I was seeing was a lesson in the differences between Andy Reid and Matt Lafleur.

No insult to Lafleur; I think he's a very good coach. But very few coaches can compare to Reid. As good as Lafleur may be, he's not a guy who is going to outcoach Andy Reid in the last few minutes of a close ballgame.

The differences between Reid and MOST of the NFL coaches. Harbaugh is no amateur.

 

[fanforlife]

It sounds like you haven't been watching recently. The D line is playing well and with intensity. The open receivers are killing us. And so we have to let the linebackers play tight on short passes. They don't do much good backing up. It's like they back up to the point where the QBs can throw it over their heads or underneath. They are in no man's land imho.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think is has been a combination of playing mobile quarterbacks early, perhaps over-emphasising run defense and gap integrity over pass rush, and a little bit of adjustment. 3-4 OLB vs. 4-3 DE roles aren't that different, so it's probably the nuances of things that Hafley wants to protect and in what order.

That's a better explanation. The move to the 4-3 alone should not cause a lengthy adjustment. I think that's called the "base" defense, and when I watch, I have a hard time seeing it (4 down linemen, 3 LBs). They did play Hurts and Richardson early and played contain rather than bring down the QB, and that affected the pressure/sack numbers of the DEs like Gary and LVN. It does seem like it's the last 3 or 4 games that the linemen are getting to the QB, and run defense has been good.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We're closer than you probably realize. We're 16th in total yards at 329.1 per game. 3rd is 301.1. 10th, the Lions, are 318.6, or 10.5 yards per game more than us.

By points allowed, we're 9th.

Yeah I think the D has been playing a lot better. Yeah they gave up 34 to the Lions and a powerhouse D, but held the Fins to 17 and the Bears to, I think, 20 or 21 (OK, they should have still lost that game, but that's not on the D).

It's not even the points. Guys like Gary and Van Ness and other down linemen have been getting home more.

My only disappointment with the D, and it's significant, is the CB group. JA seems to never be on the field, Stokes has turned out to be JAG, and the others? Not much. They will need an offseason remake as was down with the S group.

And there is only 8 total yards between 16th and 3rd?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Seattle is a good team. They have some weaknesses. To win in Seattle the team has to show some maturity. These are the kind of games in which the mental errors can be the difference in a close contest. I hope our intensity is at a high level. NLF has to play this like a playoff game.

The Packers and the fans should know better. Seattle is not an easy place to win. To your point, it's gonna be loud and they just can't afford the kind of mistakes - penalties - they've made in other stadiums. And this game and the other 3 are all playoff games. I'd rather they got the 5 seed and played Atlanta or Seattle than the 7th seed and likely the Eagles or queens.

Yeah if they are successful in the playoffs they will eventually play in Detroit or Philly or even MN. An easier opponent to start would be nice.

 

[Heyjoe4]

OK. So my view is this. The offense has put things together. They have regularly been putting up 30+ pts per game. Enough to win. Our D on the other hand hasn’t made that turn yet. Whether its the players on the field not connecting with each other, or the coaches not connecting with the players, or the coaches not coming up with the right schemes and strategies.... whatever it is I’m sure they are working on it. Once they figure out the right combinations we will have a good chance of surpassing the run we made last year.

The offense has been playing well, and while it hinges on the run game and Jacobs, it seems that each week someone else steps up and contributes to a win. I'd like to see more consistent play from Love and Watson, but the offense isn't a big concern.

I think the D has played very well in the last 3 or 4 weeks. Gary and LVN are around the football a lot more, and the linemen have stepped up as well. Clark got off to a slow start, but he's stepped up now as well.

My concern is with the CBs. JA doesn't play, and everyone else is average. It forces Hafley to play a lot more zone, and teams like the Lions eat that up with short passes in the flat for 7 or 8 yards. I don't know the answer. It will have to be addressed in the offseason. But for now, I won't be surprised if Hafley starts blitzing more. Make it harder for the QB to get rid of the ball. That's risky, but so is playing with a CB group that resembles cheesecloth.

 

[mradtke66]

I think that's called the "base" defense, and when I watch, I have a hard time seeing it (4 down linemen, 3 LBs).

In the modern NFL, nickel is the actual base, at least in terms of snap counts. The offense plays more snaps with 3WRs, the defense counters with 5DBs.

 

[mradtke66]

And there is only 8 total yards between 16th and 3rd?

28, which I assume is a typo on your part. And that's per game.

Yeah. It's really tight.

 

[Heyjoe4]

In the modern NFL, nickel is the actual base, at least in terms of snap counts. The offense plays more snaps with 3WRs, the defense counters with 5DBs.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Heyjoe4]

28, which I assume is a typo on your part. And that's per game.

Yeah. It's really tight.

Thanks again, and yeah, I did mean 28. Not much difference.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While it won't change the score or the results of the game, at least Za'Darius's wallet will feel the correction.

https://atozsports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers-news/nfl-rights-a-major-wrong-in-controversial-no-call-involving-jordan-love-and-zadarius-smith-during-packers-lions/

 

[OldSchool101]

Our D on the other hand hasn’t made that turn yet. Whether its the players on the field not connecting with each other, or the coaches not connecting with the players, or the coaches not coming up with the right schemes and strategies.... whatever it is I’m sure they are working on it. Once they figure out the right combinations we will have a good chance of surpassing the run we made last year.

We're closer than you probably realize. We're 16th in total yards at 329.1 per game. 3rd is 301.1. 10th, the Lions, are 318.6, or 10.5 yards per game more than us.

Hey guys!
Since the Bye we have averaged 20.25 pts/gm allowed on Defense. That would rank at #7 in the NFL. I’m sure it was because they have been Offenses playing poorly? Nope

The Offenses we faced since the Bye or that 4-game span averaged 25.65 pts/gm (this including us stifling several of them). That cumulative grouping Offense would rank Top #10 in scoring since the Bye.

Somewhere along their way, those 4 teams we just played lost 5.5 points per game off their 4 game O points average when playing the Packers Defense.

Tua, Brock and Caleb all suffered playing the GB Defense. Goff played about average, thanks to making an uncharacteristic 4/5 4th Down tries.

 

[chemist]

Hey guys!
Since the Bye we have averaged 20.25 pts/gm allowed on Defense. That would rank at #7 in the NFL. I’m sure it was because they have been Offenses playing poorly? Nope

The Offenses we faced since the Bye or that 4-game span averaged 25.65 pts/gm (this including us stifling several of them). That cumulative grouping Offense would rank Top #10 in scoring since the Bye.

Somewhere along their way, those 4 teams we just played lost 5.5 points per game off their 4 game O points average when playing the Packers Defense.

Tua, Brock and Caleb all suffered playing the GB Defense. Goff played about average, thanks to making an uncharacteristic 4/5 4th Down tries.

Thanks for that data. It does sound encouraging and could be an indication that our D is on the cusp of making a break thru to reach a level of consistency that our OFF has already reached.
We have some tough games going forward. I expect our OFF to put up around 30 +/- pts each of those games. What I need to see from our D is making those crtical stops when we need them

 

[rmontro]

Hey guys!
Since the Bye we have averaged 20.25 pts/gm allowed on Defense. That would rank at #7 in the NFL. I’m sure it was because they have been Offenses playing poorly? Nope

Throw out the Lion game and it would be even better. But you can't do that.

 

[weeds]

Nice to watch Detroit getting kicked in the nutz by the Bill's....and the refs are actually calling stuff on Detroit

 

[Firethorn1001]

Nice to watch Detroit getting kicked in the nutz by the Bill's....and the refs are actually calling stuff on Detroit

Starting to think going for it so much on 4th down for the Lions was necessitated as much by the Lions injuries on D rather than strictly a 'Campbell has no respect for the Packers'.

 

[Pkrjones]

....and the refs are actually calling stuff on Detroit

Not all, still allow blatant holding to protect Goff.

 

[Firethorn1001]

Campbell has to stop acting like he is the smartest guy to coach in the NFL. I get the aggressiveness, but feels like he is trying to one up himself all the time or if he doesn't maintain that aggressive edge then he will be questioned. Just got it to 38-28 with 12 minutes left then you try an onside kick. He must really not like his defense right now. . .

 

[OldSchool101]

Thanks for that data. It does sound encouraging and could be an indication that our D is on the cusp of making a break thru to reach a level of consistency that our OFF has already reached.
We have some tough games going forward. I expect our OFF to put up around 30 +/- pts each of those games. What I need to see from our D is making those crtical stops when we need them

It’s a different feel. Those Top Tier were still having some trouble slowing down. That said our O was also turning the ball over at a higher rate until the Bye.
Lions took a spanking at their house. Makes me wonder if they’ve already peaked. It’s a Looooong season