Studs and Duds - Jacksonville

[Pugger]

I think the Packers will be very cautious with Love's injury. According to Ian Rapaport, he has a groin pull and his status "in doubt" for this week. The better long term move would be to sit him this week and give him the bye week to heal. That would be 3 full weeks to get healed up for the Bears.

Jaire Alexander is getting an MRI on his knee today.

Let's hope his knee isn't badly injured.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Needless to say the 3 games Willis has won would not have fared well with a Brett Hundley.

Or Clifford.

For years both TT and Gute put all their eggs in the Rodgers basket of staying healthy and in a few seasons, that bit the Packers in the butt. Glad to see Gute has finally learned the importance of a backup QB, when you have a team that has a legit shot at being a playoff team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I remember a lot of folks - fans and media alike - couldn't believe Gute would make a trade for a player most considered a colossal bust. Most thought he was crazy.

Yup, but the key party who made the biggest mistake was the Titans. They gave Malik up for a 7th rounder and handed the keys to the franchise over to Will Levis. Appears that was a huge mistake on their part and a HUGE gift for the Packers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Without reading the previous posts a couple of things I noticed. When the offense let the clock run down like Aaron used to do they did not play well. When Jordan got the ball snapped with about 6-7 seconds left the plays were mostly successful.

I won't say they were 'overlooking' the jags. But I think they underestimated them.

I wish they would have put Willis in earlier and I'm sure I'm not the only one. PLEASE don't play Love next week if he is gimpy. I know that Love is a better QB when he is healthy. But not when he can't step into his throws.

McKinney was outstanding again. Of course McManus would get a game ball from me again.

Keep smiling. They'll wonder what you're up to.

I see a lot of teams with a 2 score or more lead do this, get very conservative. It absolutely drives me nuts when the Packers do it. I will say that often it does work out in their favor, but makes the game a lot closer than my heart wanted.

Here is my biggest pet peeve with the "conservative strategy". OK, fine, you decided that there isn't enough time for the other team to stage the comeback, then fricking milk the play clock to as close to zero as you can when you have the ball. Teams seem to only really go hardcore after the game clock, when there is under 2 or 3 minutes left. Yesterday, after the Packers went totally conservative on offense and I think had a 3 and out, Whelen snapped the ball with like 15 seconds left on the play clock.

Clock management is an art form. Maybe it is easier when you are a fan sitting in your recliner? However, with all the money these teams have, I would be happy to sit in my lounger, up in the Packers press box, and communicate my clock strategy to MLF.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Studs:
Malik Willis - poised and made great decisions. Best backup since McMahon. That deep ball was on a tractor beam
Jacobs - that jump cut was off the chain. Ran with power and purpose.
the X man - he was on the prowl again. What an acquisition.
Whalen - had a high snap and dropped it in perfect kick angle. His punts have you guessing. He is that accurate.


Duds:
offense: you yank Love when he first limps. Malik has already proven he is reliable.
Now it seems that Love is hurt worse. I understand his salary etc but identify the potential with Willis for what it is: proven.
Bullard: He is a rook and im willing to see him perform. He is a dynamic slot corner not a safety so there is that.

To me this W was signature. To look and see this ill equipped sluggish offensive game plan and change qbs and problem solved was striking and makes me wonder where Maliks ceiling could be. Fantastic management job for acquiring Malik and the X man.

 

[tynimiller]

Studs:
Malik Willis - poised and made great decisions. Best backup since McMahon. That deep ball was on a tractor beam
Jacobs - that jump cut was off the chain. Ran with power and purpose.
the X man - he was on the prowl again. What an acquisition.
Whalen - had a high snap and dropped it in perfect kick angle. His punts have you guessing. He is that accurate.


Duds:
offense: you yank Love when he first limps. Malik has already proven he is reliable.
Now it seems that Love is hurt worse. I understand his salary etc but identify the potential with Willis for what it is: proven.
Bullard: He is a rook and im willing to see him perform. He is a dynamic slot corner not a safety so there is that.

To me this W was signature. To look and see this ill equipped sluggish offensive game plan and change qbs and problem solved was striking and makes me wonder where Maliks ceiling could be. Fantastic management job for acquiring Malik and the X man.

If Williams cannot appear able this week would love them to game plan and maybe give Johnson Jr or Kitan the safety role…Bullard is better in the slot and so is our Defensive backfield.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Studs:
Tucker Kraft - Guy's out there looking like a young George Kittle; sure, his run blocking isn't dominant but who cares when he's running down the field like an angry grizzly bear
Malik Willis - living proof that so much of a player's career is affected by his environment
Josh Jacobs - I miss Jones but Jacobs ability to handle a massive workload makes replacing Jones with Jacobs the right call
Edgerrin Cooper - Playing like Quay Walker was supposed to
Jaire Alexander - Starting to play like his old self
Jordan Morgan - his play wasn't really worthy of being a stud but it was just nice to see him not be terrible at guard for a game

Duds (or the Josh Myers and friends category):
Jordan Love's lower body
Everyone on the dline not named Preston Smith or Karl Brooks - seriously, what happened to Gary and is Van Ness ever going to progress beyond the bull rush?
Javon Bullard - he's been a decent first year player but today he played like a rookie
Josh Myers - He's just so bad at run blocking....just, so, so, bad
Rasheed Walker - Normally a good LT, today was a lowlight reel
Elgton Jenkins - When the Packers emphasize the run it really highlights how stark the difference is for many on the oline between their ability to pass block and run block
Jayden Reed - Great play at the end but we're starting to see why slot receivers are hard to count on as the main guy; amazing within the scheme but outside of that he's not a reliable guy to beat coverage

 

[Pugger]

Yup, but the key party who made the biggest mistake was the Titans. They gave Malik up for a 7th rounder and handed the keys to the franchise over to Will Levis. Appears that was a huge mistake on their part and a HUGE gift for the Packers.

Perhaps the Titans couldn't get Willis to perform like our staff can so they were eager to get something for him?

 

[milani]

Or Clifford.

For years both TT and Gute put all their eggs in the Rodgers basket of staying healthy and in a few seasons, that bit the Packers in the butt. Glad to see Gute has finally learned the importance of a backup QB, when you have a team that has a legit shot at being a playoff team.

I am glad Willis is a runner. He may not be Michael Vick but when defenses confuse or stymie us it is one way to get a first down or extend a drive. Yesterday was a good example. His big gain led to Jacobs going to the house.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Yup, but the key party who made the biggest mistake was the Titans. They gave Malik up for a 7th rounder and handed the keys to the franchise over to Will Levis. Appears that was a huge mistake on their part and a HUGE gift for the Packers.

But I also think that it is interesting that a player can 'bomb' on one team and do very well on another. I believe Clements has a lot to do with Willis' success. So glad that Rodgers was instrumental in getting Clements to come here.

 

[Firethorn1001]

and maybe give Johnson Jr or Kitan the safety role…

Guessing the Giants won't allow Johnson Jr to suit up for the Packers. Guessing you had someone else in mind...

 

[Firethorn1001]

Perhaps the Titans couldn't get Willis to perform like our staff can so they were eager to get something for him?

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Willis reminds me of a Badger QB right now. Hand the ball off, do some decent basic QB things and let the other skill position players do their thing. Great against the Western Michigan (Indy/Titans/Jax) of the world, but how will it be against the Alabama's (Detroit's) of the world.

Possibly why the Titans moved on as they needed more than that.

If he plays, I doubt we beat Detroit with our QB throwing just 15 passes. (If the Packers pass 15 times and win by jamming the ball down the Lion's throat then they will probably be viewed as the favorites in the NFC after that). Have my doubts though, but absolutely 100% hope I'm proven wrong and he can be more than a NFL version of Badger QBs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Perhaps the Titans couldn't get Willis to perform like our staff can so they were eager to get something for him?

Ummm.... yes

This can happen with people in just about any walk of life. Change of scenery, change of people around them, new motivations, throwing away bad habits, etc.

I'll just say this, I liked Willis coming out of college, but I didn't expect him to play this well for the Packers 3 years later.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Probably an unpopular opinion, but Willis reminds me of a Badger QB right now. Hand the ball off, do some decent basic QB things and let the other skill position players do their thing. Great against the Western Michigan (Indy/Titans/Jax) of the world, but how will it be against the Alabama's (Detroit's) of the world.

Possibly why the Titans moved on as they needed more than that.

If he plays, I doubt we beat Detroit with our QB throwing just 15 passes. (If the Packers pass 15 times and win by jamming the ball down the Lion's throat then they will probably be viewed as the favorites in the NFC after that). Have my doubts though, but absolutely 100% hope I'm proven wrong and he can be more than a NFL version of Badger QBs.

I disagree. 3 things that Willis has done and Badger QB's haven't.

1. Good game manager, doesn't make bad throws and interceptions.

2. When asked to throw, has done really well.

3. Presents the defense with a very viable threat with his legs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

LOL.....just saw this online.......

Biggest Dud yesterday was Bears CB Tyrique Stevenson. A fan's video shows Stevenson trash talking Commander fans, as the final Hail Mary play is starting. I think it is Stevenson that actually tips the ball back to Noah Brown for the winning TD.

Da Bears just can't make this shit up!

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[Pokerbrat2000]

Bear fan reaction....classic...

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[sschind]

A little off topic, but the end of the Bears game was THEE best ending to Bears game I have ever seen!

Can't-Miss Play: Hail Mary TD! Commanders beat Bears on Daniels' 52-yard TD pass to Brown at buzzer

The Washington Commanders beat the Chicago Bears on a 52-yard Hail Mary completion from quarterback Jayden Daniels to wide receiver Noah Brown.

tw.sports.yahoo.com

I've seen better but they all involved the Packers beating them.

I see a lot of teams with a 2 score or more lead do this, get very conservative. It absolutely drives me nuts when the Packers do it. I will say that often it does work out in their favor, but makes the game a lot closer than my heart wanted.

Here is my biggest pet peeve with the "conservative strategy". OK, fine, you decided that there isn't enough time for the other team to stage the comeback, then fricking milk the play clock to as close to zero as you can when you have the ball. Teams seem to only really go hardcore after the game clock, when there is under 2 or 3 minutes left. Yesterday, after the Packers went totally conservative on offense and I think had a 3 and out, Whelen snapped the ball with like 15 seconds left on the play clock.

Clock management is an art form. Maybe it is easier when you are a fan sitting in your recliner? However, with all the money these teams have, I would be happy to sit in my lounger, up in the Packers press box, and communicate my clock strategy to MLF.

I spent 15 minutes at work this morning listen to a coworker rant and rave about how Hafley is no different than Joe Barry or Mike Pettine or any other shitty coordinator in the the league because he abandons what has been working and goes soft.

Going conservative and milking the clock is pretty much standard for most defenses at some point with a moderate to large lead in the 4th quarter. It seems even the most aggressive coaches and coordinators will tend to gravitate towards it more often than not and for the most part it works. The most important variables are how big of a lead you have and how much time is left.

I understand the principle but it can be frustrating. When the other team knows you are not going to throw the ball no matter what just so you don't stop the clock with an incompletion they can key on the run and it often shows.

kryzygrl brings up an interesting point about when they let the play clock run down to the last second it seems they don't do as well. I wonder if it has to do with anticipation and pent up excitement of the play. They know the call and they are excited to get it run and thy get up to the line and now they have to hold for 10 seconds. maybe it has a psychological effect. I've often thought that the defense knows you are going to wait until the last second so why not snap it 5 seconds earlier to try to catch them napping so to speak. I know these guys are professionals but emotions can get to them as well.

 

[tynimiller]

Guessing the Giants won't allow Johnson Jr to suit up for the Packers. Guessing you had someone else in mind...

lol my bad my mind went into lala land there. kitan would be next most likely of course.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've seen better but they all involved the Packers beating them.

I spent 15 minutes at work this morning listen to a coworker rant and rave about how Hafley is no different than Joe Barry or Mike Pettine or any other shitty coordinator in the the league because he abandons what has been working and goes soft.

Going conservative and milking the clock is pretty much standard for most defenses at some point with a moderate to large lead in the 4th quarter. It seems even the most aggressive coaches and coordinators will tend to gravitate towards it more often than not and for the most part it works. The most important variables are how big of a lead you have and how much time is left.

I understand the principle but it can be frustrating. When the other team knows you are not going to throw the ball no matter what just so you don't stop the clock with an incompletion they can key on the run and it often shows.

kryzygrl brings up an interesting point about when they let the play clock run down to the last second it seems they don't do as well. I wonder if it has to do with anticipation and pent up excitement of the play. They know the call and they are excited to get it run and thy get up to the line and now they have to hold for 10 seconds. maybe it has a psychological effect. I've often thought that the defense knows you are going to wait until the last second so why not snap it 5 seconds earlier to try to catch them napping so to speak. I know these guys are professionals but emotions can get to them as well.

When a team has a lead and goes conservative on offense, I think the reason why 3 and outs are somewhat common is exactly what you said, the defense keys on the run and its very difficult to pick up a first down. Think of it as a goal line stand, but this time the offenses goal is only to hold onto the ball and run the game clock.

I honestly think this is the time of a game that shows what your OC or whomever is calling the plays is made of.

- 3 runs up the middle? Conservative as hell and/or ultra confident of their defense.

- 3 running plays, with some misdirection? Still pretty conservative.

- 2 running plays with a 3rd down pass? Thinking a bit, more proactive.

- 1st or 2nd down pass, while in run formation. This guy wants to put the game away.


I prefer the latter. Go for the throat. Don't get stupid and just throw the ball up in the air, but give the QB the ability to roll out and either run or pass for that first down.

 

[sschind]

When a team has a lead and goes conservative on offense, I think the reason why 3 and outs are somewhat common is exactly what you said, the defense keys on the run and its very difficult to pick up a first down. Think of it as a goal line stand, but this time the offenses goal is only to hold onto the ball and run the game clock.

I honestly think this is the time of a game that shows what your OC or whomever is calling the plays is made of.

- 3 runs up the middle? Conservative as hell and/or ultra confident of their defense.

- 3 running plays, with so misdirection? Still pretty conservative.

- 2 running plays with a 3rd down pass? Thinking a bit, more proactive.

- 1st or 2nd down pass, while in run formation. This guy wants to put the game away.


I prefer the latter. Go for the throat. Don't get stupid and just throw the ball up in the air, but give the QB the ability to roll out and either run or pass for that first down.

If it has been working then by all means stick with it. I've never been a fan of 3 runs punt. I understand the goal but like you said just be careful with the ball. I don't see a whole lot of difference in a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the first quarter when you are down by 10 and a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the game when you are up by 10.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If it has been working then by all means stick with it. I've never been a fan of 3 runs punt. I understand the goal but like you said just be careful with the ball. I don't see a whole lot of difference in a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the first quarter when you are down by 10 and a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the game when you are up by 10.

Agree.

Seems like teams can make up deficits really quick, especially when the team leading goes into "prevent defense". That almost bugs me more than "prevent offense". We see this time and again and it isn't just with the Packers. The team with the big lead tells their defense "just keep everything in front of you". 5 plays later, the other team is at your goal line and ready to make it a 1 score nail biter.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think sometimes the kiss of death and it seems to be the Packers MO when they have a big lead....Go ultra conservative on both offense and defense. That is what ultimately lost them the NFCCG in Seattle. Sure, it was a boneheaded onside kick cluster F, but had McCarthy and Capers stuck with what got them there, the Packers win that game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here's something to chew on. So we see it all the time, teams are down by 2 or more scores and go into their "hurry up and score fast mode". Often, we see them actually score a TD pretty quickly. So do they score quickly, because the defense played them so soft, it was easy. Or, did they score quickly, because they actually took chances and made some big plays?

So if it is the first, why would defenses ever want to play soft? Why not keep playing the defense that got you there. I'm not talking loading up the box, but pretend that the game is tied and its 4th and 6 on every play.

If it is the second, and they are scoring due to playing fast and riskier, shouldn't offenses just play like they are down 2 scores for most of the game? The Packers have gotten away from their hurry up offense, outside of the 2 minute offense. Sure they still go to the no huddle sometimes, but that is just to try and keep the defense from substituting or trying to draw them offsides/call a timeout. I know the offense is young, but would like to see them run that 2 minute offense to open the 2nd half or midway into a quarter, just switch things up a bit.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Studs:
Tucker Kraft - Guy's out there looking like a young George Kittle; sure, his run blocking isn't dominant but who cares when he's running down the field like an angry grizzly bear
Malik Willis - living proof that so much of a player's career is affected by his environment
Josh Jacobs - I miss Jones but Jacobs ability to handle a massive workload makes replacing Jones with Jacobs the right call
Edgerrin Cooper - Playing like Quay Walker was supposed to
Jaire Alexander - Starting to play like his old self
Jordan Morgan - his play wasn't really worthy of being a stud but it was just nice to see him not be terrible at guard for a game

Duds (or the Josh Myers and friends category):
Jordan Love's lower body
Everyone on the dline not named Preston Smith or Karl Brooks - seriously, what happened to Gary and is Van Ness ever going to progress beyond the bull rush?
Javon Bullard - he's been a decent first year player but today he played like a rookie
Josh Myers - He's just so bad at run blocking....just, so, so, bad
Rasheed Walker - Normally a good LT, today was a lowlight reel
Elgton Jenkins - When the Packers emphasize the run it really highlights how stark the difference is for many on the oline between their ability to pass block and run block
Jayden Reed - Great play at the end but we're starting to see why slot receivers are hard to count on as the main guy; amazing within the scheme but outside of that he's not a reliable guy to beat coverage

Another Studs and Duds format post. Even though I created it on this forum! Good list here

 

[lambeaulambo]

Here's something to chew on. So we see it all the time, teams are down by 2 or more scores and go into their "hurry up and score fast mode". Often, we see them actually score a TD pretty quickly. So do they score quickly, because the defense played them so soft, it was easy. Or, did they score quickly, because they actually took chances and made some big plays?

So if it is the first, why would defenses ever want to play soft? Why not keep playing the defense that got you there. I'm not talking loading up the box, but pretend that the game is tied and its 4th and 6 on every play.

If it is the second, and they are scoring due to playing fast and riskier, shouldn't offenses just play like they are down 2 scores for most of the game? The Packers have gotten away from their hurry up offense, outside of the 2 minute offense. Sure they still go to the no huddle sometimes, but that is just to try and keep the defense from substituting or trying to draw them offsides/call a timeout. I know the offense is young, but would like to see them run that 2 minute offense to open the 2nd half or midway into a quarter, just switch things up a bit.

I chewed on it and its tasty...D gets tired when they dont play prevent!! Hafley has to be that way.