Duds and studs, Lions

[chemist]

What is a bad weather team? Vs a dome team like the Packers. I think bad weather teams have reliable special teams to start. They'll field their kicks, make their snaps and a FG kicker that has experience in poor conditions. Those teams are also built on the O line and D line to give you an advantage in the run game. Finally, bad weather teams have sure-handed receivers and a QB who will take what's available and change his decision making to meet the conditions. When it's 3rd and 4, throwing a 30 yard back shoulder pass in bad weather is just a poor option.

I understand everything you said about a bad weather team, but what you described sounds to me more like a well coached team, and that starts at the top. Your last statement about the 3rd and 4 situation and throwing a 30 yd pass describes perfectly what happened at the end of the first half when MLF got super aggressive with his play calling with little time left near his own endzone with a QB who was hurt and couldnt naneuver very well and the rest is history. I have to ask what was,MLF thinking under those conditions. A close game with a chance to come back suddenly became a mometum booster for the lions. Just a bad end of half strategy by MLF that not only helped the lions but put Love at risk for a major injury ...A very bad coaching job IMO.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I understand everything you said about a bad weather team, but what you described sounds to me more like a well coached team, and that starts at the top. Your last statement about the 3rd and 4 situation and throwing a 30 yd pass describes perfectly what happened at the end of the first half when MLF got super aggressive with his play calling with little time left near his own endzone with a QB who was hurt and couldnt naneuver very well and the rest is history. I have to ask what was,MLF thinking under those conditions. A close game with a chance to come back suddenly became a mometum booster for the lions. Just a bad end of half strategy by MLF that not only helped the lions but put Love at risk for a major injury ...A very bad coaching job IMO.

No doubt coaching makes a difference in how teams perform in bad weather. Responsibility falls on both players and coaches but you can say that about any game. What I pointed out is mostly about how teams are built in conjunction with coaching and play calling. If your O and D lines can't handle the LOS in a game where running has a premium due to bad weather, then it's "see ya later".

 

[chemist]

No doubt coaching makes a difference in how teams perform in bad weather. Responsibility falls on both players and coaches but you can say that about any game. What I pointed out is mostly about how teams are built in conjunction with coaching and play calling. If your O and D lines can't handle the LOS in a game where running has a premium due to bad weather, then it's "see ya later".

Gotcha...the miserable weather did dictate the best, safest approach. Running the ball more would have given us more ball contol, more time of possession, keeping goff on the sidelines.
I feel like we are being held back by poor coaching. Last hear it was joe barry holding us back. This year I feel its MLF. I wish he would delegate calling plays to someone else so he can manage the game and focus on an overall strategy. It is obvious to me he was not thinking clearly in the lions game given the weather conditions and the health condition of Love.

 

[gopkrs]

The Packers are built for domes and not for bad weather. It's been like that for a long time. Perfect example was last season's playoffs. In the dome in Dallas they were electric. On a much sloppier field in SF, they made just enough unforced errors to lose. That's why I think they will be in a better position to make a deep playoff run if they're a 6th or 7th seed. In the playoffs, the Packers have a proven home field disadvantage.

Unfortunately, I agree. We should never go into a GB game thinking we have some kind of great advantage. That day has passed. But if we realize we have to give a little something extra; we should be able to play in bad weather. We have to be able to do that.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Another disadvantage in the bad weather is how quiet the crowd is. When everybody is bundled up, it cuts down on the noise factor. How often do teams at GB jump offsides because they can't hear? Domes or upper deck stadiums where fans are closer to the field just get louder. Perfect example is Seattle. The upper decks are built close to the field to amplify the noise. Bowl shaped stadiums don't have that. Lambeau also has thousands of fans behind glass in booths.

 

[OldSchool101]

There were a couple things I learned in that type of game affected by extreme weather. Learned or reinforced I should say.
1. Ball handling will be paramount. Making severe changes such as switching our Center is a high risk move.
1A. Don’t exasperate a major position switch by using an unusually high amount of Shotgun. It’s hard enough doing that for a Veteran Center much less a guy who didn’t play the position regularly. If your QB1 is injured don’t inflame it, put in a healthy QB under Center. Reduce Risk instead of going for the big play. Remember that the first team to make a mistake… loses.

2. Don’t give your opponent any help. Don’t get impatient and force any throws in a closer game. Especially anything in that 1 score area backed up near your Endzone. Be prepared to throw the ball at your players feet and live to see another series or just lay down and take the -5 play. Punt and force your opponent to start on their side of the field with limited time and in risky weather. Let them force it.
2A. The false starts are unacceptable on a day with a lower score and difficult moving. Watch the snap and not the cadence. Stay frozen until that ball moves at least a foot.

3. In the opponent Redzone use your running game disproportionately IF it’s been effective. Do not call plays like End Arounds or Screens that start -5 negative. Take the tough +3 yards up the gut over the riskier plays. Chip away ans they say. A big play will open up eventually. Again don’t help your opponent get momentum with them attaining anything behind LOS or anything negative. Go 0 yards or go + yards. Don’t snap it -9 yards deep it a recipe for disaster in a slippery condition.
3A. Don’t plan on Kicking any FG unless you are at or near the Redzone or the gameclock is expiring at the Half. Don’t allow your opponent any help on field position once again. Back them up to the 5 yard line and make them earn 95 yards in process. Detroit had 247 yards in 4qtrs or averaged 62 yards per Quarter. The driving Rain and Win is like having a 12 man Defense. Rely on your Defense. Detroit has scored 10 points on Offense in 2 quarters. Make them score 7 points and 95 yards in 1 possession. Take that bet.

 

[shockerx]

There were a couple things I learned in that type of game affected by extreme weather. Learned or reinforced I should say.
1. Ball handling will be paramount. Making severe changes such as switching our Center is a high risk move.
1A. Don’t exasperate a major position switch by using an unusually high amount of Shotgun. It’s hard enough doing that for a Veteran Center much less a guy who didn’t play the position regularly. If your QB1 is injured don’t inflame it, put in a healthy QB under Center. Reduce Risk instead of going for the big play. Remember that the first team to make a mistake… loses.

2. Don’t give your opponent any help. Don’t get impatient and force any throws in a closer game. Especially anything in that 1 score area backed up near your Endzone. Be prepared to throw the ball at your players feet and live to see another series or just lay down and take the -5 play. Punt and force your opponent to start on their side of the field with limited time and in risky weather. Let them force it.
2A. The false starts are unacceptable on a day with a lower score and difficult moving. Watch the snap and not the cadence. Stay frozen until that ball moves at least a foot.

3. In the opponent Redzone use your running game disproportionately IF it’s been effective. Do not call plays like End Arounds or Screens that start -5 negative. Take the tough +3 yards up the gut over the riskier plays. Chip away ans they say. A big play will open up eventually. Again don’t help your opponent get momentum with them attaining anything behind LOS or anything negative. Go 0 yards or go + yards. Don’t snap it -9 yards deep it a recipe for disaster in a slippery condition.
3A. Don’t plan on Kicking any FG unless you are at or near the Redzone or the gameclock is expiring at the Half. Don’t allow your opponent any help on field position once again. Back them up to the 5 yard line and make them earn 95 yards in process. Detroit had 247 yards in 4qtrs or averaged 62 yards per Quarter. The driving Rain and Win is like having a 12 man Defense. Rely on your Defense. Detroit has scored 10 points on Offense in 2 quarters. Make them score 7 points and 95 yards in 1 possession. Take that bet.

Great post, Just like to add if your going to run it on fourth and two....you should be running it on early downs second two and third two.

 

[OldSchool101]

Great post, Just like to add if your going to run it on fourth and two....you should be running it on early downs second two and third two.

This is where I’d like to see us use Malik. To an opposing Defense, He’s effectively a 2nd RB. Yet he’s really more than that. RB’s don’t have the ability to bounce outside and use all options in the pass. Malik is like the Queen on a chessboard. He can go either direction diagonal, lateral or vertical. I’d substitute him out of nowhere and catch your opponent on short notice on a 2nd or 3rd n short. Roll him on your strong side as a Runner with 2 options to dump it if needed. Worst case throw it away outside the pocket and live to see another down. No forcing a ball into double coverage for a 15+ play. Get that 1 yard and keep your Offense out there and just move the chains. The best D against a #1 Offense is keeping Goff sidelined in a cold rain and churning to the gameclock in a lower scoring contest. If you don’t start him fine, that does not imply we can use him situational or for a series to test his ability. I think we’ve got one of the top 5 best rushing QB’s just getting stale on the sideline. We had the #1 Rushing Offense with him under Center. Quit *****footing around and utilize his ability to be dynamic. I don’t understand our philosophy of all or nothing. It’s not like Jordan Love is going to lose his confidence because you put Malik in for a series. The Detroit game was a perfect opportunity to mix n match with a designed series or two and stay with the hot hand. Matt needs to do a better thinking outside the box imo. This doesn’t imply he’s bad, it implies he has the ability to be Great + +
You want movement and misdirection?? Take it to another 2024 level and define it.

 

[Sanguine camper]

The Packers have a big play offense both running and passing. They don't grind out a lot of 5 and 6 yard plays compared to a lot of the other good offenses in the NFL. Asking them to move the ball down the field with 3-6 years runs even with favorable down and distance isn't likely to happen because the run blocking by the O line is very inconsistent to say the least. That hurts them in bad weather games. That's another reason why they are a bad weather team and have a better chance in the Playoffs away from Lanbeau in January.

 

[Voyageur]

There were a couple things I learned in that type of game affected by extreme weather. Learned or reinforced I should say.
1. Ball handling will be paramount. Making severe changes such as switching our Center is a high risk move.
1A. Don’t exasperate a major position switch by using an unusually high amount of Shotgun. It’s hard enough doing that for a Veteran Center much less a guy who didn’t play the position regularly. If your QB1 is injured don’t inflame it, put in a healthy QB under Center. Reduce Risk instead of going for the big play. Remember that the first team to make a mistake… loses.

2. Don’t give your opponent any help. Don’t get impatient and force any throws in a closer game. Especially anything in that 1 score area backed up near your Endzone. Be prepared to throw the ball at your players feet and live to see another series or just lay down and take the -5 play. Punt and force your opponent to start on their side of the field with limited time and in risky weather. Let them force it.
2A. The false starts are unacceptable on a day with a lower score and difficult moving. Watch the snap and not the cadence. Stay frozen until that ball moves at least a foot.

3. In the opponent Redzone use your running game disproportionately IF it’s been effective. Do not call plays like End Arounds or Screens that start -5 negative. Take the tough +3 yards up the gut over the riskier plays. Chip away ans they say. A big play will open up eventually. Again don’t help your opponent get momentum with them attaining anything behind LOS or anything negative. Go 0 yards or go + yards. Don’t snap it -9 yards deep it a recipe for disaster in a slippery condition.
3A. Don’t plan on Kicking any FG unless you are at or near the Redzone or the gameclock is expiring at the Half. Don’t allow your opponent any help on field position once again. Back them up to the 5 yard line and make them earn 95 yards in process. Detroit had 247 yards in 4qtrs or averaged 62 yards per Quarter. The driving Rain and Win is like having a 12 man Defense. Rely on your Defense. Detroit has scored 10 points on Offense in 2 quarters. Make them score 7 points and 95 yards in 1 possession. Take that bet.

I hate it when coaches get too "creative" in the red zone, and end up getting penalties called, or huge losses of yardage on plays. We seem to fall prey to the penalties when we're there, when we get cutesy with the snap commands. Once in a while you need to go up to the line, and without hesitation, snap the ball, and hand it to the RB, and let him pick the place to run. Teams are watching you for passes, and can't over protect the line.

Against the Lions, I said since before the game that it should have been Willis under center. He should have gotten the lion's share of the practice snaps during the week. I think Le Fleur should have made the decision to protect Love, by giving him that extra week of rest. But, I'm not getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions. In fact, they don't pay me a red cent!

 

[OldSchool101]

I hate it when coaches get too "creative" in the red zone, and end up getting penalties called, or huge losses of yardage on plays. We seem to fall prey to the penalties when we're there, when we get cutesy with the snap commands. Once in a while you need to go up to the line, and without hesitation, snap the ball, and hand it to the RB, and let him pick the place to run. Teams are watching you for passes, and can't over protect the line.

Against the Lions, I said since before the game that it should have been Willis under center. He should have gotten the lion's share of the practice snaps during the week. I think Le Fleur should have made the decision to protect Love, by giving him that extra week of rest. But, I'm not getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions. In fact, they don't pay me a red cent!

I think you’re exactly correct. Actually Malik hit the bulk of A team snaps last week. They just decided to sit him anyway.
Listen. I’m not suggesting I know more than Matt. It’s his game plan and he’s been largely successful. I am suggesting he’s got a historically dynamic Running QB. Maybe the best Rushing QB in Green Bay history. Is Matt immune to using his best athletes in his formula? Imo Malik is a shade behind Lamar Jackson. Yea the MVP of this game. I’m being 100% serious, I think Malik is that good. I think he could start on at least a dozen teams and stay above .500 level. As far as Running QB’s he’s easily Top 5 for me. Possibly Top 2. We didn’t accidentally become the best Rushing Packers team since Ahman Green at #5 leaguewide. That was Malik and Jacobs. When was the last time A QB led our team to #1 in Rushing? What are we so afraid of using Malik Willis? I just don’t get it it’s like we have blinders on. He runs for near 9 yards per carry and he’s a stable option in rain and wind with a cannon arm. It’s ideal in these situations and he’s so much better than Taysom Hill I don’t even like that comparison. He’s at minimum Taysom Hill Turbo on a bad day. I’ve watched plenty of Packers n Saints games he’s better than Taysom imo.

 

[Voyageur]

The Packers have a big play offense both running and passing. They don't grind out a lot of 5 and 6 yard plays compared to a lot of the other good offenses in the NFL. Asking them to move the ball down the field with 3-6 years runs even with favorable down and distance isn't likely to happen because the run blocking by the O line is very inconsistent to say the least. That hurts them in bad weather games. That's another reason why they are a bad weather team and have a better chance in the Playoffs away from Lanbeau in January.

Actually we're a solid running team, and we do have the 5th highest rush yardage average per game in the league, and the 8th best passing game in yardage per game. Overall, we rank 4th in the NFL in total average yardage per game. Our offense is averaging 5.0 yards per carry, which is tied for 5th in the league, so I'd say the run is a major factor in the success most of the time.

We average 6.1 yards per play, which puts us in 4th place in the league. That's a solid performance level.

Now, long plays. Love has 25 plays of 20+ yards. He has 7 of 40+ in the passing game. Josh Jacobs is 3rd in the league in rushing yards, and in 4th place for most 20+ yard carries, with 6.

What I'm trying to say, we need the mix we're getting to move the ball. The passing game is helping the running game, and the running game is helping the passing game.

I believe I read we've lost 5 fumbles from running the ball, and 3 on pass receptions. Add the fact that despite missing two games, Love leads the NFL with 10 INTs, and I'll stick with the run mix we've got.

 

[chemist]

I hate it when coaches get too "creative" in the red zone, and end up getting penalties called, or huge losses of yardage on plays. We seem to fall prey to the penalties when we're there, when we get cutesy with the snap commands. Once in a while you need to go up to the line, and without hesitation, snap the ball, and hand it to the RB, and let him pick the place to run. Teams are watching you for passes, and can't over protect the line.

Against the Lions, I said since before the game that it should have been Willis under center. He should have gotten the lion's share of the practice snaps during the week. I think Le Fleur should have made the decision to protect Love, by giving him that extra week of rest. But, I'm not getting paid the big bucks to make those decisions. In fact, they don't pay me a red cent!

Couldnt agree more. Willis was the better option under those weather conditions. He has shown he can run the offense successfully plus he can make plays with his legs, meaning the lions had to account for him on defense which opens up the field more. With love not being a threat to run the lions were able to keep more people back in the passing lanes.

 

[milani]

I get what you are saying but I imagine every team feels that way. That somehow we are cursed. The jets when they just got rodgers as QB and he gets hurt early last year and didnt play play another snap the whole year, the 49rs when they were playing the eagles in the nfc championship and lost both QBs, more recently the bears losing to the commanders on that hail mary. My point is probably every team can point to several things that went against them that were moments of unfairness, or ridiculousness , or how could this happen...ness etc.
Putting talent aside for a second, my question would be,in that miserable weather how does a dome team beat an all weather team. It had to be sometimg more than bad weather or a curse.

I felt that when you have one or two flops early in a game that for some reason it snowballs and they do not recover. They get in a funk. Lombardi's teams would have that happen but they were renown for being able to respond and overcome like someone turned on a switch. This Packer team can get to the mountain top but they can fall into the abyss as well.

 

[chemist]

I felt that when you have one or two flops early in a game that for some reason it snowballs and they do not recover. They get in a funk. Lombardi's teams would have that happen but they were renown for being able to respond and overcome like someone turned on a switch. This Packer team can get to the mountain top but they can fall into the abyss as well.

A good point. Thats why having a good coach is so important. Part of the job of the head coach is to inspire, to encourage, to support, to generate an atmosphere of everyone working together as a team and making them feel we can overcome anything if we all pull together.

 

[chemist]

A good point. Thats why having a good coach is so important. Part of the job of the head coach is to inspire, to encourage, to support, to generate an atmosphere of everyone working together as a team and making them feel we can overcome anything if we all pull together.

We have the talent to play with anyone so after the bye We just need to play solid football and take it one game at a time. And when things seem to be going against you maintain discipline and keep plugging away.
The lions have that formula down pat. Even with Goff throwing 5 INTs vs a good texans team they lions still were able to come back and win.

 

[OldSchool101]

We have the talent to play with anyone so after the bye We just need to play solid football and take it one game at a time. And when things seem to be going against you maintain discipline and keep plugging away.
The lions have that formula down pat. Even with Goff throwing 5 INTs vs a good texans team they lions still were able to come back and win.

True. I think we are very close to the Texans strength wise. We were = in 2023 and we are again. Lots of similarities. I think had we played clean last week we were very equal to Detroit. I still would have to give Detroit the tie breaker. They just don’t quit and there’s something to be said for the assertive way they play.

Doesn’t mean we can’t beat them either. I noticed Goff has fallen off his Pedestal. He’s not playing as mistake free as he initially did. He’s very streaky. He might go like Love with 1 or 2 INT total across a half dozen games, then suddenly he tosses 3 or 5 to the wrong team in One game.

We need to get back to a formula of multiple Studs. We’re playing very disjointed at this point. At some point we’ve got to get off this dull plateau we’ve been on.

 

[chemist]

True. I think we are very close to the Texans strength wise. We were = in 2023 and we are again. Lots of similarities. I think had we played clean last week we were very equal to Detroit. I still would have to give Detroit the tie breaker. They just don’t quit and there’s something to be said for the assertive way they play.

Doesn’t mean we can’t beat them either. I noticed Goff has fallen off his Pedestal. He’s not playing as mistake free as he initially did. He’s very streaky. He might go like Love with 1 or 2 INT total across a half dozen games, then suddenly he tosses 3 or 5 to the wrong team in One game.

We need to get back to a formula of multiple Studs. We’re playing very disjointed at this point. At some point we’ve got to get off this dull plateau we’ve been on.

A very astute observation. The lions dont quit and I picked up too on what you said about their assertiveness. To me they play with an air of confidence. Like it doesnt matter what throw at us, it doesnt matter how far ahead you get, we will eventually take you down before time runs out.
All of that comes from the top, from DC himself.
How ever from my view the lions have been behind several times in games so its not like they are killing everyone. Some of their games have been squeakers.
I feel we are equal to the lions talent wise and could have beaten them in that miserable weather if we had come into that game as a disciplined team instead of a penalty creator team, and if we had better decision making from our HC.