Studs and Duds vs The Lions

[Heyjoe4]

Everyone needs to scrooge up and get negative. Tis the season. One thing this team knew was that Z Smith is horrendous at stopping the run and MLF shouldve ran Jacobs right at him. Thats the recipe for beating them. The screen pass seems to have left the playbook at 1265. Festivus YES Bagel NO!! lol

Good point. In addition to loading the box, the Lions were also blitzing late when they saw it was a pass play. So the defensive strategy employed by the Lions early was brilliant.

And how do teams adjust when they are getting over-blitzed (if that's a thing....)? They throw in some screens and run more. MLF adjusted by just going back to Jacobs. I don't remember a single screen.

I guess the good news is that MLF did make an adjustment back to the run sometime in the late 1Q, early 2Q. In a 3-point game, that certainly could have been the difference. Anyway, credit the Lions on game planning. Probably got them the win.

 

[OldSchool101]

What happened to Reed? He was only targeted once. I get that the Lions were double teaming him, but he can get out of those. His lack of action is a puzzle. Unless he wasn't 100% and they were using him as a decoy.

Good question.
What we do know is Reed had both season low snaps (25) and season low targets (1) at Detroit. Him and Amon Ra were guests on a talk show and he was talking smack about doing a leap in Detroit. I’d keep that stuff under radar and talk about it afterwards.

Wicks had 39 snaps and played most of the Offensive (78%) snaps. Finally a respectable 4/5 targets caught.

Watson had 46 snaps and 4/7 targets 114 yards. He played a season high number of snaps.

I might go back and watch to see what happened to Reed. He’s got just 12 Targets (4 games)since the Bye Week after a red hot start. Is it possible he’s been playing nicked up? It’s what it looked like as far as limited usage.

 

[OldSchool101]

Reed did have 2 targets. 1 he drew D pass interference and got a 1st down.

2nd was what I’d call a poorly thrown ball. It was catchable out route but not an easy one to make. Reed had to come back to it about 1 yard behind 1st down marker instead of a clean out route at the marker. It was called a drop but it was jointly Loves fault imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

DUD.
Matt’s Timeout usage

At the end of the first Half. On the rewatch Detroit had the ball 3rd n Goal at the GB1/2 foot line. We stopped Detroit for 4th n Goal from GB2 with :57 sec on the clock. GB had just used its last Timeout.

1. The timeout wasted in a challenge flag cost GB a possession. Yes it was only :57 sec but that’s enough time for an attempt to get into FG range when we start at the GB30. GB only needed ~30-35 yards in 1 minute drill for 3 pts. At worst the fail and pin Detroit inside the 20 with 1 Timeout left and about :35 seconds. Instead Dan just let the clock wind and took away a Packer possession.

2. That poor decision to use the Red challenge flag = Detroit finished both halves with last possession. I don’t count our last play a possession it’s a kneel down play. Packers Getting 3pts there was critical in a close game. We now know how it could’ve pushed the game to OT. We have to stop wasting challenge flags. We’re terrible at challenges and it’s starting to cost us.

I know mostly it doesn’t cost a game because we’d argue “it’s just the first half” I get it. But are points in the first half any less valuable than points in the 4th quarter?

Quit wasting the ability to bank :40 seconds in exchange to challenge a 1st down spot unless it’s points or a 40+ type play or you have a 75% chance of overturning it. I don’t want to see another challenge flag thrown for frivolous reasons.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Good question.
What we do know is Reed had both season low snaps (25) and season low targets (1) at Detroit. Him and Amon Ra were guests on a talk show and he was talking smack about doing a leap in Detroit. I’d keep that stuff under radar and talk about it afterwards.

Wicks had 39 snaps and played most of the Offensive (78%) snaps. Finally a respectable 4/5 targets caught.

Watson had 46 snaps and 4/7 targets 114 yards. He played a season high number of snaps.

I might go back and watch to see what happened to Reed. He’s got just 12 Targets (4 games)since the Bye Week after a red hot start. Is it possible he’s been playing nicked up? It’s what it looked like as far as limited usage.

I think the injury angle makes sense. With Doubs still out, he probably made a "healthy-enough" target/diversion. Makes me wonder how reliable the injury reports are. No it doesn't. They're worthless.

Would like to see Watson start stringing some big performances together.

 

[OldSchool101]

Unrelated. The Chargers vs KC game reminds me of a D version of Packers vs Lions. KC with the ball 2+ minutes left trying to drain the clock. Losing 16-17 but controlling the clock to drain it for a winning FG
Except Chargers might get the ball back with that 1 minute? It’s almost luck of the draw to an extent the whole time factor and field position.

Brutal End for LA. It’s what Great teams understand. Clock utilization, timeout utilization, execution of those is paramount. Chiefs literally bled the Chargers #1 Defense slowly and methodically.

 

[milani]

Unrelated. The Chargers vs KC game reminds me of a D version of Packers vs Lions. KC with the ball 2+ minutes left trying to drain the clock. Losing 16-17 but controlling the clock to drain it for a winning FG
Except Chargers might get the ball back with that 1 minute? It’s almost luck of the draw to an extent the whole time factor and field position.

Brutal End for LA. It’s what Great teams understand. Clock utilization, timeout utilization, execution of those is paramount. Chiefs literally bled the Chargers #1 Defense slowly and methodically.

I actually told my wife that Mahommes would roll out and either run or draw the D and go to Kelce. Perfectly executed. Great coaching and great execution.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the injury angle makes sense. With Doubs still out, he probably made a "healthy-enough" target/diversion. Makes me wonder how reliable the injury reports are. No it doesn't. They're worthless.

Would like to see Watson start stringing some big performances together.

I think Watson could be close. This was a key matchup and he had the most snaps of any WR/TE or RB. That just shows the confidence our Coaching staff puts in Watson.
Btw. Watson is very similar to MVS. I’d give the nod to Christian, he’s averaging about 5 TD’s per season + 58% catch rate vs 50% catch 3TD’s with MVS. Watson is MVS turbo version.

I actually told my wife that Mahommes would roll out and either run or draw the D and go to Kelce. Perfectly executed. Great coaching and great execution.

with a more Defensive feel, it was very similar to the Packers vs Lions.
Both home teams started by scoring twice.
Both home teams got behind into the 4th quarter
Both home teams got the ball back with several minutes left and milked the clock like total professionals.
Both home teams Win on a walk off FG.

 

[milani]

I think Watson could be close. This was a key matchup and he had the most snaps of any WR/TE or RB. That just shows the confidence our Coaching staff puts in Watson.
Btw. Watson is very similar to MVS. I’d give the nod to Christian, he’s averaging about 5 TD’s per season + 58% catch rate vs 50% catch 3TD’s with MVS. Watson is MVS turbo version.



with a more Defensive feel, it was very similar to the Packers vs Lions.
Both home teams started by scoring twice.
Both home teams got behind into the 4th quarter
Both home teams got the ball back with several minutes left and milked the clock like total professionals.
Both home teams Win on a walk off FG.

Probably the 2 best teams in the league.

 

[rmontro]

And how do teams adjust when they are getting over-blitzed (if that's a thing....)? They throw in some screens and run more. MLF adjusted by just going back to Jacobs. I don't remember a single screen.

Yeah, this team used to be the king of the screens.

 

[Heyjoe4]

DUD.
Matt’s Timeout usage

At the end of the first Half. On the rewatch Detroit had the ball 3rd n Goal at the GB1/2 foot line. We stopped Detroit for 4th n Goal from GB2 with :57 sec on the clock. GB had just used its last Timeout.

1. The timeout wasted in a challenge flag cost GB a possession. Yes it was only :57 sec but that’s enough time for an attempt to get into FG range when we start at the GB30. GB only needed ~30-35 yards in 1 minute drill for 3 pts. At worst the fail and pin Detroit inside the 20 with 1 Timeout left and about :35 seconds. Instead Dan just let the clock wind and took away a Packer possession.

2. That poor decision to use the Red challenge flag = Detroit finished both halves with last possession. I don’t count our last play a possession it’s a kneel down play. Packers Getting 3pts there was critical in a close game. We now know how it could’ve pushed the game to OT. We have to stop wasting challenge flags. We’re terrible at challenges and it’s starting to cost us.

I know mostly it doesn’t cost a game because we’d argue “it’s just the first half” I get it. But are points in the first half any less valuable than points in the 4th quarter?

Quit wasting the ability to bank :40 seconds in exchange to challenge a 1st down spot unless it’s points or a 40+ type play or you have a 75% chance of overturning it. I don’t want to see another challenge flag thrown for frivolous reasons.

MLF has not been great at clock management, in this or any other year imo. The challenge on a ball placement was a good example. Ball placement is very subjective, meaning it's easy to see it more than one way. The rule states that unless there is clear evidence to overturn, the call stands.

Anyway, someone suggested he wanted a timeout anyway to regroup, but that's the NBA not the NFL.

And you're right, one TO = one possession. That can make a lot of difference at the end of the 1H or the end of the game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

On both td passes to Patrick..our dbs looked confused. If Nixon is the best corner they have out there..they are ****** come playoffs!!!

The CB group is going to need a makeover in the offseason, hopefully the same way the S group has been remade. If I had to name the best CB, I'd say Nixon - and that's a horrible statement on the state of CB group.

Certainly it would be JA, but he's gotta actually play to be graded.

And FWIW. this should be Stokes last year in GB. Great rookie year, and then injuries just changed him. Too bad - the guy worked hard to get back. Now it seems like he's afraid of contact to avoid another injury. Can't be successful playing like that.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

. Many reasons for losing to Detroit (again). They could have won the game with better execution, more discipline and play calling as well as adjustments during the game. Frankly, So far in 2 games Detroit has shown that they are the better team, the better coaching staff and better playmakers. The QB is top tier, they play at a high level with urgency you do not see many packers that play like that, Jacobs is one, Gary and a handful of others- not nearly enough of them due to ability or football smarts or whatever. The other fact after Sunday, Minnesota is also better than GB in the same ways, they still may not be able to beat Lions but they are a notch above the packers. One can argue "youngest team" for GB, problem is that does not get you to the golden ring when you dont have the handful of guys who can make everyone else better - the Pack does not have that today and maybe those guys are not even on the current roster - again I would say Jacobs, Gary and maybe one or two others (not Love) are those guys.

 

[rmontro]

. Many reasons for losing to Detroit (again). They could have won the game with better execution, more discipline and play calling as well as adjustments during the game. Frankly, So far in 2 games Detroit has shown that they are the better team, the better coaching staff and better playmakers. The QB is top tier, they play at a high level with urgency you do not see many packers that play like that, Jacobs is one, Gary and a handful of others- not nearly enough of them due to ability or football smarts or whatever. The other fact after Sunday, Minnesota is also better than GB in the same ways, they still may not be able to beat Lions but they are a notch above the packers.

Maybe I'm stubborn, but I'm still not ready to concede that Minnesota is better than us. They keep winning every week though, so maybe it's just deliberate blindness. We'll find out more when we next play them.

Next week we play the Seahawks. Which is interesting because if the season ended today, we would be playing the Seahawks in Seattle, just like we will be doing next week.

 

[gopkrs]

Watson is very similar to MVS. I’d give the nod to Christian,

I would give him a huge nod. He is so much better than MVS imho. And if he stays healthy; he's going to get much better.

 

[fanforlife]

Green Bay needs to "man up." Well, they're the youngest team in the league, right? Yeah, and management coddles its young. Both are true. The fact of the matter is we haven't leveled or matched the physicality that the Lions and Vikings bring to every game. Nor do we match the speed of most teams in the first quarter of games.
We slow walk with no sense of urgency. Where's the no-huddle offense? Are we saving it for the playoffs we might miss?
Frankly, we come out casual and don't make enough in-game adjustments soon enough. Stop playing the data and start playing from the GUT.
The fact that we deferred against the Lions was a statement. If you are going to make a statement like that ( Lombardi rolls over in his grave every time we defer), then the defense has to get off the field by stopping the opposing team's drive. Our Offense is better than our defense—stop deferring, take the ball down the field, and score a touchdown. Play to our strength.

 

[chemist]

Green Bay needs to "man up." Well, they're the youngest team in the league, right? Yeah, and management coddles its young. Both are true. The fact of the matter is we haven't leveled or matched the physicality that the Lions and Vikings bring to every game. Nor do we match the speed of most teams in the first quarter of games.
We slow walk with no sense of urgency. Where's the no-huddle offense? Are we saving it for the playoffs we might miss?
Frankly, we come out casual and don't make enough in-game adjustments soon enough. Stop playing the data and start playing from the GUT.
The fact that we deferred against the Lions was a statement. If you are going to make a statement like that ( Lombardi rolls over in his grave every time we defer), then the defense has to get off the field by stopping the opposing team's drive. Our Offense is better than our defense—stop deferring, take the ball down the field, and score a touchdown. Play to our strength.

Wow. laying it on the line.. you definitely speak your mind and I detect a bit of frustration mixed in there too, a feeling I think most of us share.
Your suggestions seem valid and make sense.
I’m not worried about the packers and the playoffs. I tend to favor teams that are getting hot and the end of the season instead of teams that are riding a very long win streak( which can wear you out carrying all that pressure) so the loss to the lions comes at a perfect time for the packers to reset, and start a new streak heading into the post season.
I believe this team is very close to putting it all together and improving over what they did last year and taking the next step.

 

[mradtke66]

I'm really struggling to find a dud here. I would like a better pass rush and the coverage over the middle left something to be desired, but jeeze. We went toe to toe with the number one seed, held them to 3.3 ypc, and lost on a last second field goal.

A loss is a loss and shouldn't be celebrated, but the dichotomy of stud/dud need not apply here.

 

[fanforlife]

Wow. laying it on the line.. you definitely speak your mind and I detect a bit of frustration mixed in there too, a feeling I think most of us share.
Your suggestions seem valid and make sense.
I’m not worried about the packers and the playoffs. I tend to favor teams that are getting hot and the end of the season instead of teams that are riding a very long win streak( which can wear you out carrying all that pressure) so the loss to the lions comes at a perfect time for the packers to reset, and start a new streak heading into the post season.
I believe this team is very close to putting it all together and improving over what they did last year and taking the next step.

I hope you are correct that we are close to taking the next step and getting on a run here. Seattle will be a good test- Minnesota at Minnesota another good test- New Orleans and da Bears - we can't take for granted. If we come out of all of these games relatively injury free is the question.

 

[chemist]

I hope you are correct that we are close to taking the next step and getting on a run here. Seattle will be a good test- Minnesota at Minnesota another good test- New Orleans and da Bears - we can't take for granted. If we come out of all of these games relatively injury free is the question.

You do have a good point but future injuries is just something that is unknowable so I tend to not worry about things like that. No team is exempt from them so I put that in the good luck/ bad luck category.
GB has an extra 3 days to rest up and prepare for their next game so if they focus on one game at a time I feel we’ll be ok

 

[rmontro]

The fact that we deferred against the Lions was a statement. If you are going to make a statement like that ( Lombardi rolls over in his grave every time we defer), then the defense has to get off the field by stopping the opposing team's drive. Our Offense is better than our defense—stop deferring, take the ball down the field, and score a touchdown. Play to our strength.

Maybe there's no logic to it, but I always feel better when I know we're getting the ball to start the second half. If we're ahead, it gives us a chance to pad the lead. If we're behind, it gives us a chance to catch up, and you know the opponent can't start the half by adding to their lead.

 

[fanforlife]

Maybe there's no logic to it, but I always feel better when I know we're getting the ball to start the second half. If we're ahead, it gives us a chance to pad the lead. If we're behind, it gives us a chance to catch up, and you know the opponent can't start the half by adding to their lead.

The only way difering works is if the defense stops the opposing team from scoring. Otherwise, you just gave away the ball for a valuable period of time during which you didn't control destiny. The defense rarely scores points. The team with the most points wins. Give my team the ball.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The only way difering works is if the defense stops the opposing team from scoring. Otherwise, you just gave away the ball for a valuable period of time during which you didn't control destiny. The defense rarely scores points. The team with the most points wins. Give my team the ball.

The Packers should have taken the ball. The Lions D was missing a boat load of starters so it just made sense.

In hindsight, it probably didn't matter. MLF came out passing, that was confusing, and didn't get back to the run until the 2Q.

But the Packers played well. No moral victories, and with the exception of the Texans, they haven't beaten a team with a winning record. The loss probably didn't matter much - MN and GB will be wild cards. I'd much rather the Packers play Seattle or Atlanta in the first round though. The 7th seed will likely go to Philly.

But first things first - beat Seattle on the road. That's never easy.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I would give him a huge nod. He is so much better than MVS imho. And if he stays healthy; he's going to get much better.

Agreed. Watson is a much better player than MVS. Watson has a much better route tree, and with some glaring exceptions, has gotten good at caching.

He needs to improve his consistency or 2025 will be a "prove it" year.

 

[gopkrs]

Green Bay needs to "man up." Well, they're the youngest team in the league, right? Yeah, and management coddles its young. Both are true. The fact of the matter is we haven't leveled or matched the physicality that the Lions and Vikings bring to every game. Nor do we match the speed of most teams in the first quarter of games.
We slow walk with no sense of urgency. Where's the no-huddle offense? Are we saving it for the playoffs we might miss?
Frankly, we come out casual and don't make enough in-game adjustments soon enough. Stop playing the data and start playing from the GUT.
The fact that we deferred against the Lions was a statement. If you are going to make a statement like that ( Lombardi rolls over in his grave every time we defer), then the defense has to get off the field by stopping the opposing team's drive. Our Offense is better than our defense—stop deferring, take the ball down the field, and score a touchdown. Play to our strength.

It sounds like you haven't been watching recently. The D line is playing well and with intensity. The open receivers are killing us. And so we have to let the linebackers play tight on short passes. They don't do much good backing up. It's like they back up to the point where the QBs can throw it over their heads or underneath. They are in no man's land imho.