Niners stud and duds

[Schultz]

I think you should look at the salaries of WRs around the NFL. The Packers are 29th in the league in spending on WRs. That's amazing, with the talent we have. As for Watson, he's a steal at under $3 mill in today's market. The rest of the guys are even more of a steal. We spend just over $8 mill on them, and there are teams that spend 5 times that on their rosters.

The problem is, most people don't actually see the numbers, so they think players are getting outrageous money. When you look at these figures, it will change your entire perspective. It gives both, total team spending, and individual player amounts as well. It's an amazing group for the money.

2024 NFL Wide Receiver Positional Spending

A real-time look at the 2024 positional spending per NFL team.

www.spotrac.com

Please point me to the part that covers the issue I did not address. Thanks in advance.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To be honest, your post didn't mean anything to me, because it didn't address the issue as to how well he's doing in comparison to others in the same class, and across the board as a WR. And yes, whether you like it or not, money is an issue related to production and ROI.

Watson was the 7th WR picked in 2022. The other six were in the first round. Watson is a 2nd round pick. Of the six who were drafted ahead of him, three are ranked ahead of him today as far as productive value in the entire league. Drake London is #12, Garrett Wilson at #15, and Jameson Williams at #34. Watson is ranked at #46, and Doubs at 53. That tells me that both of them were quality picks already, for their point in the draft.

Across the board, in the NFL, Watson's salary is well within an acceptable range for the production he's given us. Now, if he wouldn't have been facing injuries, that ROI would be even higher.

I think you better learn to do research before you start acting indignant because someone didn't agree with you. That's childish at best.

The only problem I see is that Watson's value in FA will be greater than what the Packers are willing to pay. I think that's what happened with MVS. The Packers were willing to go to $10 mil/year and KC offered $11 mil/year (something like that). GB didn't match.

That's not apples to apples. Watson, imo, is a much better WR than MVS. But while the numbers might be higher, the logic is the same. Cap-rich teams will outbid the Packers. When that happens, Gluten and Russ Ball have to decide if they'll match. Right now I'd say no. But that's a problem for next season. For now, a Thanksgiving win over the fish would be nice!

 

[Thirteen Below]

I think you should look at the salaries of WRs around the NFL. The Packers are 29th in the league in spending on WRs. That's amazing, with the talent we have.

And just consider the ramifications on the rest of the team - how much money we have left over for other positions, how many options that gives Gutekunst to add talent.

We'd better enjoy it while it lasts, because unless Gute can keep working the "wide receiver mojo" every year or two in the draft, in a couple of years there are going to be some hard choices to make on that position group. We'll probably never see this again in our lifetimes - a quarterback as good as Love, and a wide receiver corps that's probably the best in the league, and all on rookie contracts.

This team needs to capitalize on this conjunction, and make hay while the sun shines. Because in a couple of years, a much larger percentage of our cap is going to have to go to receivers, leaving less money for other needs.

Oh yeah. Richard’s hands were like glue. Obviously he was like a Turtle after the catch though. If he caught a 8 yard pass he was good for at least 0.5 yard after the catch.

Rodgers was a phenomenon. The man was a black hole who sucked in every pass that came anywhere near him; he had a career catch rate of 67.6 - which as near as I can tell, was easily the best of any Packer receiver since they started keeping that stat in 1992. That's significantly better than Greg Jennings (58.9), Davante Adams (63.6), Donald Driver (60.2), and even Jordy Nelson (66.3).

He was just so damned slow, though. If you cut off his hands and put them on top of Christian Watson's legs, he'd make Travis Kelce look like a scrub.

 

[milani]

And just consider the ramifications on the rest of the team - how much money we have left over for other positions, how many options that gives Gutekunst to add talent.

We'd better enjoy it while it lasts, because unless Gute can keep working the "wide receiver mojo" every year or two in the draft, in a couple of years there are going to be some hard choices to make on that position group. We'll probably never see this again in our lifetimes - a quarterback as good as Love, and a wide receiver corps that's probably the best in the league, and all on rookie contracts.

This team needs to capitalize on this conjunction, and make hay while the sun shines. Because in a couple of years, a much larger percentage of our cap is going to have to go to receivers, leaving less money for other needs.



Rodgers was a phenomenon. The man was a black hole who sucked in every pass that came anywhere near him; he had a career catch rate of 67.6 - which as near as I can tell, was easily the best of any Packer receiver since they started keeping that stat in 1992. That's significantly better than Greg Jennings (58.9), Davante Adams (63.6), Donald Driver (60.2), and even Jordy Nelson (66.3).

He was just so damned slow, though. If you cut off his hands and put them on top of Christian Watson's legs, he'd make Travis Kelce look like a scrub.

It is a wonder he lumbered down the field on Rodgers Hail Mary. If the Lions made Rodgers throw sooner he does not get there. Richard also made a big catch in a playoff game following the 2016 season against the Boys in the end zone. ARod had bought time to make the throw.

 

[Thirteen Below]

It is a wonder he lumbered down the field on Rodgers Hail Mary. If the Lions made Rodgers throw sooner he does not get there. Richard also made a big catch in a playoff game following the 2016 season against the Boys in the end zone. ARod had bought time to make the throw.

If I remember right, R. Rodgers was still "running" downfield when A. Rodgers let the ball fly. I should watch that again, though, just for old time's sake.

 

[DoURant]

Rodgers was the master of the 1 yd catch, when he needed 2 for a first down.

 

[Heyjoe4]

If I remember right, R. Rodgers was still "running" downfield when A. Rodgers let the ball fly. I should watch that again, though, just for old time's sake.

In hindsight R Rodgers' slowness probably made the play possible. If I recall, he reached the 5 yard line and turned around to look for the ball. Everyone else was already in the end zone. He kept his eye on the ball and just started walking backwards, getting just inside the end zone. I think he jumped, if you could call it that, and hauled in the pass. He actually played it very well. But if he's any faster, he probably gets to the end zone and gets lost in the crowd.

I didn't know he was so good at catching the ball, but it's not surprising. His downfall was his lack of speed and no ability to run after the catch. Seems like a good guy - just not cut out to play TE given the athleticism and speed now required at the position.

On that topic, Tucker Kraft is really developing into an excellent all-around TE. He seems much more confident in his routes and does really well with YAC. I don't know where that will leave Musgrave, but Kraft has truly seized an opportunity.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Rodgers was the master of the 1 yd catch, when he needed 2 for a first down.

Yeah that's a pretty good summary. And wherever he was when he caught the ball was where the ball would be marked. He had no ability to run after a catch. Too bad, he had great hands.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If I remember right, R. Rodgers was still "running" downfield when A. Rodgers let the ball fly. I should watch that again, though, just for old time's sake.

I linked it below.

A-Rod was the master behind the play, he scrambled around and gave everyone time to get down to the EZ, even Richard Rodgers! Not sure if it was by design, but as the ball is getting closer to the EZ, you can see RR lumbering towards the EZ, kind of backwards and twisted, looking for the ball. Him not setting himself up in the EZ kept all the Lion defenders off him and concentrated only on the Packers in the EZ. Beautiful throw, catch and design all together. I think if I was drawing up a Hail Mary, I would have 2-3 receivers (high point jumpers) go to where the ball is going to be targeted to. Then much like this play, have one receiver in front of the mob and one in back, hoping to get the pass if it is tipped, under/over thrown.

I've also wondered why they don't line an extra WR/TE or 2 up as tackles (take out a G/T, whatever. Have those guys report them as eligible and send them too. Now that would be relying on the 3-4 OL players to really block well, but if the defense is only rushing 3 and you have a mobile QB, odds are he scrambles around enough to get the throw off and have more receivers downfield to try and catch it.

My only question is can you have 6-7 "eligible receivers"?

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[Firethorn1001]

My only question is can you have 6-7 "eligible receivers"?

6 is the max. Always have 5 that are not eligible because the 5 on the line between the 2 eligible receivers are ineligible. The reason they report is because the jersey number is outside of the eligible receivers and they are lining up in an eligible position. (NFL rulebook : Eligible pass receivers and a T-Formation Quarterback must be wearing numerals 0-49 or 80-89. All other numerals are worn by ineligible players unless they report a change in their position. See 5-3-1.)

 

[Thirteen Below]

Rodgers was a phenomenon. The man was a black hole who sucked in every pass that came anywhere near him; he had a career catch rate of 67.6 - which as near as I can tell, was easily the best of any Packer receiver since they started keeping that stat in 1992.

Acrually, it appears I spoke too soon...

On that topic, Tucker Kraft is really developing into an excellent all-around TE. He seems much more confident in his routes and does really well with YAC. I don't know where that will leave Musgrave, but Kraft has truly seized an opportunity.

Out of curiosity, I took a peek at Kraft's and Musgrave's stats. They're both still in Year Two of what will hopefuly be long careers, but right now Kraft has a catch rate of 74.4% (61 receptions), and Musgrave is right behind at 73.6% (39 receptions). That's truly remarkable.

I'm getting excited again about what this offense will be able to do when both of these guys are healthy and on the field at the same time.

 

[Poppa San]

If I remember right, R. Rodgers was still "running" downfield when A. Rodgers let the ball fly. I should watch that again, though, just for old time's sake.

IIRC I saw an interview at the time in which this was the play as designed:

Then much like this play, have one receiver in front of the mob and one in back, hoping to get the pass if it is tipped, under/over thrown.

RR was the "too short" deflection receiver and wasn't supposed to catch it. He at first thought it was going to be short which is why he played the ball and not the deflection.

 

[OldSchool101]

Out of curiosity, I took a peek at Kraft's and Musgrave's stats. They're both still in Year Two of what will hopefuly be long careers, but right now Kraft has a catch rate of 74.4% (61 receptions), and Musgrave is right behind at 73.6% (39 receptions). That's truly remarkable.

I'm getting excited again about what this offense will be able to do when both of these guys are healthy and on the field at the same time.

I love that idea. We’re not alone either. Both TE’s had one specific common denominator. Their draft profiles both were said to go to a team that liked using 12 personnel. If Musgrave ever recoups I still fully expect our TE pair to be a major problem for opponents.

Musgrave’s ankle injury caused us to look hard at Kraft, which really opened our eyes to how ready he was.
After seeing early returns on Luke (who really was said to need time to flourish) there is little doubt we’ve got an exceptional player in the injury wings that quite possibly could evolve into Twin TE1’s. Luke had a really great Camp this Spring in 2024. I fully expect him to pick up where he left off. Matt said he was in a good spot just recently, so if we can get him reps with a couple of games in regular season? There’s a coin flip chance we’ve got both at full strength in postseason.