Duds and studs, Lions

[milani]

No kidding. Hubby taped the game and we are now watching it. I lost a lot of respect for Brady who acted surprised the #32 was ejected. Branch and the Lions should be glad the NFL doesn't have targeting like the NCAA.

That weather yesterday looked miserable. I remember a playoff game against SF in conditions like this in the 90s. It took me 2 days to dry off and warm up.

Desmond Howard!!

 

[milani]

I’d have to disagree. I think both were hurtful, but our RB dropping a TD pass at the 3 yard line and Wicks not making that grab thrown slightly behind him in the paint likely cost us 2 TD’s. Those added points easily put us in this game without any other help and also would’ve allowed us to not press the throws as it would’ve been 7-10 at halftime. Thats after the INT.
It’s also likely the clock runs more and this game is never more than a 1 score game to the end. Those drops change the way the game unfolded.

Sooner or later youth has to mature. In SB 45 we do not win unless players like Nelson and Jennings make the catch. Nor could we have won it with all those penalties.

 

[milani]

Let me start by saying I'm gonna have someone on both lists for different reasons this week, so nobody come at me.

Studs:

Defense: Kept the Lions under or around 300 yards and with as abysmal as the team played yesterday the Lions should've easily doubled that.

Offensive Line: So THAT'S what it looks like to not have a Center get thrown at Love's head, and not be totally lost in open field? Is THIS what it looks like to not have the middle of the O-Line get shoved back in short yardage? WOW!

McDuffie: I see very little in this guy but I have to give credit when it's due. He made a couple great plays, again though in the running game

Duds:

Love: He was arming every thing and barely able to step into his throws. It looked like Rodgers at times the last 5 years of Rodgers' time as a Packer. The INT made no sense at all, as to what he THOUGHT he saw.

Skilled Players: 322 drops in a game is too much, no discipline, unacceptable and I hope LaFleur puts them all outside in the elements with the jugs machine and makes them catch 100 wet balls in a row before allowing them inside to dry off.

Announcing: Brady is abysmal, he didn't know WHICH black guy was playing Center for us...read a number Tommy.

Officiating: On the opening kickoff the 15 should've gone against Detroit NOT Nixon.

Elgton Jenkins: Have to clean it up, you may be the answer at Center, gotta learn to snap a wet ball.

Defense was not dominant but did a good job against a powerful offense and maybe the best O line in the league. Had we played better on the other side of the ball we could have forced Detroit out of the run game. Instead they were content to run clock.
Center and guard play hurt yesterday. I think Brady still sees himself on the field as a game manager trying to make decisions for a young kid. Actually, he sounded like Belichick on the sideline telling players AND coaches how to think in the moment of the game.
They never were able to pinpoint that Nixon penalty. Said it may have been behind the play. It made no sense.

 

[Pugger]

I’d have to disagree. I think both were hurtful, but our RB dropping a TD pass at the 3 yard line and Wicks not making that grab thrown slightly behind him in the paint likely cost us 2 TD’s. Those added points easily put us in this game without any other help and also would’ve allowed us to not press the throws as it would’ve been 7-10 at halftime. Thats after the INT.
It’s also likely the clock runs more and this game is never more than a 1 score game to the end. Those drops change the way the game unfolded.

The unforced errors we committed kept putting us behind the eight ball. There is a big difference between 2nd 5 and 2nd and long. I just think penalties are more troublesome. It shows a lack of discipline.

 

[Pugger]

Let me start by saying I'm gonna have someone on both lists for different reasons this week, so nobody come at me.

Studs:

Defense: Kept the Lions under or around 300 yards and with as abysmal as the team played yesterday the Lions should've easily doubled that.

Offensive Line: So THAT'S what it looks like to not have a Center get thrown at Love's head, and not be totally lost in open field? Is THIS what it looks like to not have the middle of the O-Line get shoved back in short yardage? WOW!

McDuffie: I see very little in this guy but I have to give credit when it's due. He made a couple great plays, again though in the running game

Duds:

Love: He was arming every thing and barely able to step into his throws. It looked like Rodgers at times the last 5 years of Rodgers' time as a Packer. The INT made no sense at all, as to what he THOUGHT he saw.

Skilled Players: 322 drops in a game is too much, no discipline, unacceptable and I hope LaFleur puts them all outside in the elements with the jugs machine and makes them catch 100 wet balls in a row before allowing them inside to dry off.

Announcing: Brady is abysmal, he didn't know WHICH black guy was playing Center for us...read a number Tommy.

Officiating: On the opening kickoff the 15 should've gone against Detroit NOT Nixon.

Elgton Jenkins: Have to clean it up, you may be the answer at Center, gotta learn to snap a wet ball.

I don't think Brady is any good either. Tom, Love didn't panic. He saw Jacobs right there and threw a lousy pass for a pick 6. And Branch targeted Melton. He went helmet to helmet on a defenseless receiver. Hit Bo square in the face. Then acted like the donkey he is flipping off fans on his way to the locker room. What a guy.

 

[Pugger]

Just wanted to say that I didn't have a problem with Brady. And am wondering about objectivity here.

I would be saying this no matter who was getting hit. IMO Branch and the Lions are lucky this is the NFL and not the NCAA. He can still play next week.

 

[Krabs]

I figured there would be a lot of negatives here and people wanting to blame this player or that coach or......

The bottom line is this. The Packers made way too many mistakes yesterday to win games. Statistically, the offense played really well, but big mistakes cost them a ton of points. I don't even think the defense played all that bad. 7 of the Lions points were off the pick 6. Where the defense played poorly was untimely penalties and forcing zero turnovers in a wet, windy game. Layer that with Ben Johnson knew exactly how to extract needed yards to keep drives going and the Lions offense did enough to win the game.

I posted this in another thread, but yesterday triggered one thing in me that has been brewing for a long time. Lions OC Ben Johnson absolutely schooled the Packers defense and totally showed me why MLF needs to give up play calling and bring in a skilled and proven OC that can do it in 2025. I used to blame Adam Stenavich for poor calls, but I am now pretty sure it is MLF calling all the plays. Don't get me wrong, I think MLF has a brilliant football mind, but I'd prefer a separate coach calling the offensive plays. I think MLF has gotten a bit predictable, not all that creative and doesn't make a lot of in game adjustments. When a defense is shutting you down on swing passes or runs up the middle, figure it out, go to something else.

Yeah, I can't agree with that. MLF has called and won 2.5 games with Milik Willis at QB. I agree much more with your thoughts on the mistakes. Way too many penalties to keep it competitive against an NFL power.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I think the Packers have way bigger problems than play calling. If you drop the pass, the play call really doesn't matter. When you make a stupid penalty, the play calling doesn't matter. When Love makes a horrible decision, the play call isn't much to blame. I just think they play like a soft team that looks satisfied with being 10-7 or 9-8.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah, I can't agree with that. MLF has called and won 2.5 games with Milik Willis at QB. I agree much more with your thoughts on the mistakes. Way too many penalties to keep it competitive against an NFL power.

I think the Packers have way bigger problems than play calling. If you drop the pass, the play call really doesn't matter. When you make a stupid penalty, the play calling doesn't matter. When Love makes a horrible decision, the play call isn't much to blame. I just think they play like a soft team that looks satisfied with being 10-7 or 9-8.

While I do get both of your points and they are most definitely valid, let me ask you this. Who called a better game on Sunday, Ben Johnson or MLF?

At times, we seem to be headed in the same direction with Matt as the one we saw with McCarthy. Solid coach, solid roster, but often getting outcoached and outsmarted.

 

[Magooch]

It's also not specifically a matter of play-calling, but I think you can make a case that at some point issues of execution, discipline, etc start to reflect on the coach. Yes, players make their own mistakes and the staff can't always coach that away. But when the same problems seem to come up over and over and over again - not just game after game, but month after month and even year after year - eventually you have to start asking why that's the case.

 

[gopkrs]

The sky is falling. I am waiting somewhat patiently for The Pack to really improve. Have to cut down on penalties. That should not be difficult. It should be a mindset. The coaches have to spend 10 to 15 seconds during practice in the face of the perpetrator stating the obvious. Our receivers do not seem to be a better outdoor team in bad weather. Especially receivers on the whole. So having homefield advantage may not be an advantage for us. The coaches need to fine tune players positions. VanNess for example. Seems like they could try and work creatively with him. Use his strength and drive. Not just 95 percent of the time running into the L tackle. We have had some costly injuries as of late and that accounts for not being a well oiled machine. But penalties should be emphasized in practice like I said. If players need to be embarrassed; well so be it. I think we are a team that is going to win on offense. Moving the ball and scoring. And not just by the run. The pass is our more formidable way of moving the ball. I mean, we are not good at short yardage when it counts. What great running team has that problem? Not a time to panic but a time to learn our identity and execute.

 

[Pugger]

I think the Packers have way bigger problems than play calling. If you drop the pass, the play call really doesn't matter. When you make a stupid penalty, the play calling doesn't matter. When Love makes a horrible decision, the play call isn't much to blame. I just think they play like a soft team that looks satisfied with being 10-7 or 9-8.

I wouldn't call them soft. Undisciplined? Yes.

 

[Pugger]

The sky is falling. I am waiting somewhat patiently for The Pack to really improve. Have to cut down on penalties. That should not be difficult. It should be a mindset. The coaches have to spend 10 to 15 seconds during practice in the face of the perpetrator stating the obvious. Our receivers do not seem to be a better outdoor team in bad weather. Especially receivers on the whole. So having homefield advantage may not be an advantage for us. The coaches need to fine tune players positions. VanNess for example. Seems like they could try and work creatively with him. Use his strength and drive. Not just 95 percent of the time running into the L tackle. We have had some costly injuries as of late and that accounts for not being a well oiled machine. But penalties should be emphasized in practice like I said. If players need to be embarrassed; well so be it. I think we are a team that is going to win on offense. Moving the ball and scoring. And not just by the run. The pass is our more formidable way of moving the ball. I mean, we are not good at short yardage when it counts. What great running team has that problem? Not a time to panic but a time to learn our identity and execute.

As an outdoor team perhaps we shouldn't be practicing indoors as much as we do?

 

[GBkrzygrl]

This was one of the more disappointing games I’ve watched this season. The score didn’t reflect the beatdown. Had the Lions really wanted to they could’ve pressed for more points and likely had them.

It was a mistake starting Love. I was fully prepared to admit I was wrong, but I wasn’t. I’m about 75% sure had we played Malik and committed to running the ball 1:1 we stay within 1 score into the 4th quarter with a 50/50 chance of winning. This home game and weather was the PERFECT setup to run and what did we do? repeated what every other losing team had to the Lions this year. It was EXACTLY the formula used by Detroit in every game to embarrass opponents and we even encouraged it. Exactly their formula. Lower yards, higher efficiency short passing win turnover battle. Control the LOS running. Trifecta.
Everything I would’ve said we needed we did the exact opposite.
Do NOT abandon the Running game
Use Malik to support that Running attack
No forcing an INT
Play extra discipined.

We thought we’d outsmart a well disciplined Team, but in process embarrassed ourselves and revealed we aren’t very well coached at all.

Dud: Matt and Staff
Staff putting our injured QB in harms way. I can only pray Love didn’t incur any setback. The injury to insult gets a double F- Worst decision I’ve seen our Coaching staff make to date. I’m normally positive. The only thing I’m positive on today is the entirety of this showing worries me FAR past an awful looking embarrassing loss.

We just went backwards to a point I hope we can erase everything we were thinking in this one. It was bad coaching and bad decision making on an entirely new level.

Couldn't agree more. If Clifford was the back-up I could understand them not starting him. But Willis has played well. It almost seems like ML was intimidated by the Lions.

 

[gopkrs]

As an outdoor team perhaps we shouldn't be practicing indoors as much as we do?

Well, since we play outdoor games in GB; we do need to be ready for that. On the other hand; we also need to be able to concentrate during practice to get some of the intricate little things right and hopefully automatic. So I think a bit of both. And kind of depends on the weather forecast and what the weather is outside right now. imho. But I'd agree that it shouldn't always be inside except if we are going away to a dome that week.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

The sky is not falling, it is just that the ceiling is lower than everyone expected this year. Too many holes due to weakness in the secondary, LB and D Rush is inconsistent (Running teams will beat them up), OL is inconsistent and very, very undisciplined (also depth is a major issue), RB play from Jacobs has been overall Vgood, QB play inconsistent and frankly poor judgement too many times, WR play very inconsistent group with passes dropped, route running not great and separation has been tough to get. MLF play calling suspect at times but with the issues above hard to tell as there is no way to be consistent in execution when you have 7-10 or more penalties per game. This team has 8 games left, will not surprise if they go 3-5 or 4-4, tough to win 5 of 8 IMO as they are playing today. The other issue is Love's injury which may or may not improve in the coming weeks. Playoff chances look good but only because every team below them is 4-4 or worse and have tough schedules, a 10 win team likely gets in, maybe even 9-8 gets the last spot. But this team leaves a lot to be desired, sky not falling but ceiling much lower than expected or hoped for by most.

 

[tynimiller]

I will still say this team is better this year than we were last year and look what we did. Do I think we win the NFC if we don't tighten up our issues - likely not. But I'd bet more money on this team winning a playoff game than I would have last year's. Of course that's if the playoffs started here in two weeks when we play next...lot can change good or bad.

 

[Half Empty]

Yeah, I can't agree with that. MLF has called and won 2.5 games with Milik Willis at QB.

Now if he could just do that with Love at QB

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's also not specifically a matter of play-calling, but I think you can make a case that at some point issues of execution, discipline, etc start to reflect on the coach. Yes, players make their own mistakes and the staff can't always coach that away. But when the same problems seem to come up over and over and over again - not just game after game, but month after month and even year after year - eventually you have to start asking why that's the case.

Thanks.

I was going to add something very similar to my post about MLF and play calling, but you did it for me.

You are right, a coach can't catch, throw, run the ball or not commit penalties, but they can either teach the skills of doing so or have other coaches that do it for them. That Lion team, except for Branch's indiscretion, played very disciplined ball, on the road, in the wind and rain.

Again, I think MLF is a solid HC, but much like McCarthy should have, I think bringing in a smart OC, that can 100% focus on the offense and play calling, will let MLF do what he does best, coach the whole team.

I listened to MLF's presser yesterday. Someone asked him what the plans were during the bye week. He said something about letting all the coaches go home and he would stay behind and do the work that needs to get done. Noble, but realistic? Sometimes I think coaches have a bit too much pride and ego for their own good. Micromanaging can be a bad thing.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just wanted to say that I didn't have a problem with Brady. And am wondering about objectivity here.

Totally 1000% agree. The little bit I listened to Brady. I thought he was being constructive in his criticism. I also thought he was being accurate. I’ve been saying our down n distance and clock usage is poor much of the year. Glad to hear the truth matches what I’ve thought throughout the year and been occasionally scoffed at. Brady is a football tree. A tree is known by its fruit and his was the juiciest of all.
I might not like what I’m hearing from Brady but I can’t deny he knows football far better than the masses.
If he says we’re making critical Rookie style mistakes then this team just might want to think about not hiding from the truth. Until we admit we’ve got a major problem with understanding probability in relation to clock usage and down n distance and the response in play call? It’s never going to be fixed. There’s 2 guys that are often despised that I 200% can tell both know what they are talking about. I don’t let my dislike for another team blind my reasoning. Tony Romo (similarly heard him unfairly criticized with prejudice) and
Tom Brady knows football.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Totally 1000% agree. The little bit I listened to Brady. I thought he was being constructive in his criticism. I also thought he was being accurate. I’ve been saying our down n distance and clock usage is poor much of the year. Glad to hear the truth matches what I’ve thought throughout the year and been occasionally scoffed at. Brady is a football tree. A tree is known by its fruit and his was the juiciest of all.
I might not like what I’m hearing from Brady but I can’t deny he knows football far better than the masses.
If he says we’re making critical Rookie style mistakes then this team just might want to think about not hiding from the truth. Until we admit we’ve got a major problem with understanding probability in relation to clock usage and down n distance and the response in play call? It’s never going to be fixed. There’s 2 guys that are often despised that I 200% can tell both know what they are talking about. I don’t let my dislike for another team blind my reasoning. Tony Romo (similarly heard him unfairly criticized with prejudice) and
Tom Brady knows football.

Agree and I would add Greg Olson to that list too. I enjoy his color commentary.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The sky is falling. I am waiting somewhat patiently for The Pack to really improve. Have to cut down on penalties. That should not be difficult. It should be a mindset. The coaches have to spend 10 to 15 seconds during practice in the face of the perpetrator stating the obvious. Our receivers do not seem to be a better outdoor team in bad weather. Especially receivers on the whole. So having homefield advantage may not be an advantage for us. The coaches need to fine tune players positions. VanNess for example. Seems like they could try and work creatively with him. Use his strength and drive. Not just 95 percent of the time running into the L tackle. We have had some costly injuries as of late and that accounts for not being a well oiled machine. But penalties should be emphasized in practice like I said. If players need to be embarrassed; well so be it. I think we are a team that is going to win on offense. Moving the ball and scoring. And not just by the run. The pass is our more formidable way of moving the ball. I mean, we are not good at short yardage when it counts. What great running team has that problem? Not a time to panic but a time to learn our identity and execute.

I still think this roster is a season away from being a Super Bowl contender. Young players, QB in his 2nd season of starting, new DC and system and finally seeing some light after some dark times in Salary Cap hell.

I am not giving up on this season, but I still see it as a work in progress. Some took that loss to Detroit WAY too hard. Detroit is one of the best teams in the NFL now. They played a pretty mistake free game, we did not.

Gute will have a nice bank account to do some FA shopping this offseason. Our own list of free agents to sign or not sign, is about as minimal of impact as a team can have.

There is light at the end of the Green and Gold Tunnel and soon it will be bright.

 

[OldSchool101]

I still think this roster is a season away from being a Super Bowl contender. Young players, QB in his 2nd season of starting, new DC and system and finally seeing some light after some dark times in Salary Cap hell.

I wouldn’t have agreed with you. I remember you saying that a few weeks ago? Now I believe you. We’re not ready. Just my opinion.

Does that mean we give up? Absolutely not. I always say it’s how you finish that’s really your identity. I’m always going to be a fan of turning it around. However I’ve got to be honest with what I see. A very disorganized team against a Detroit Team in mid/season form stinking us up in our house.

I know we don’t do mid season FA. That said I see us 2-3 players away from turning the tide enough to make a real push. I understand they don’t like to deal draft picks. I get it stick to what’s made us good, I respect that. I’m one if the most impatient of all. I want it and I want it NOW!!

Sorry got a little emotional there. I haven’t been right since Detroit embarrassed us

 

[Krabs]

While I do get both of your points and they are most definitely valid, let me ask you this. Who called a better game on Sunday, Ben Johnson or MLF?

At times, we seem to be headed in the same direction with Matt as the one we saw with McCarthy. Solid coach, solid roster, but often getting outcoached and outsmarted.

It's actually hard to say with all the mistake made. There were too many drops.

 

[Krabs]

Now if he could just do that with Love at QB

I think there is something to be said with the whole "handcuffs off" cliche.