Studs and Duds - Jacksonville

[Pokerbrat2000]

I chewed on it and its tasty...D gets tired when they dont play prevent!! Hafley has to be that way.

If the D gets tired, playing prevent, they need to be in better shape. My guess is, if they are in prevent, the Packers have a decent sized lead. Now in most cases, you get a decent sized lead because your offense has done good things with the ball and controlled the game/time clock. Also, it probably means your defense has done well and possibly played fewer snaps than the opponents defense. Being tired shouldn't be a reason to play prevent, IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Josh Jacobs - I miss Jones but Jacobs ability to handle a massive workload makes replacing Jones with Jacobs the right call

I was thinking about this during the game as well. Jacobs has just been a consistent warrior all season. I loved Jones, but I think his 2023 season sealed his fate with the Packers. During the 2023 season his status for 9 different games was either questionable or out. That creates a lot of uncertainty for coaches preparing for a game. His numbers also went way down in 2023. Great guy, great player, but Gute saw the writing on the wall, that maybe Jones was near his expiration date and it was time to replace him.

The only thing that kind of shocked me with Jones and the Packers, is that they just outright released him. Now maybe that was a courtesy to him or a to avoid cap hits (can't remember that part), but you would have thought that they could have gotten something in a trade and also prevented him from going to the Vikings in the process.

I also can't help wonder if the Packers would be much better on offense, had they worked out the kind of deal Jones got with the Vikings, kept him and had a very powerful 1-2 punch with both him and Jacobs.

 

[tynimiller]

I was thinking about this during the game as well. Jacobs has just been a consistent warrior all season. I loved Jones, but I think his 2023 season sealed his fate with the Packers. During the 2023 season his status for 9 different games was either questionable or out. That creates a lot of uncertainty for coaches preparing for a game. His numbers also went way down in 2023. Great guy, great player, but Gute saw the writing on the wall, that maybe Jones was near his expiration date and it was time to replace him.

The only thing that kind of shocked me with Jones and the Packers, is that they just outright released him. Now maybe that was a courtesy to him or a to avoid cap hits (can't remember that part), but you would have thought that they could have gotten something in a trade and also prevented him from going to the Vikings in the process.

I also can't help wonder if the Packers would be much better on offense, had they worked out the kind of deal Jones got with the Vikings, kept him and had a very powerful 1-2 punch with both him and Jacobs.

The Packers were not going to do the disservice to Jones of controlling his fate as to where he went. I know both sides were deeply saddened when they could not find common ground.

Believe it or not there are a lot more 7th rounders turned down by teams and releases than the general public knows...not saying it is a LOT but it happens a lot more than people realize.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers were not going to do the disservice to Jones of controlling his fate as to where he went. I know both sides were deeply saddened when they could not find common ground.

While I get that, I think Jones will remember Gute and the Packers for "giving up on him", more than giving him a chance to pick his destination. Fans won't even consider that as a valid reason for outright cutting a guy, that the organization had treated pretty well.

I don't want to sound like a cold-hearted B'stard, but it's a billion dollar business, and yes you are dealing with human lives here. However, it wasn't like Jones wasn't going to be stopped from playing or finishing the year he had left on his contract with a team the Packers chose to trade him to and then signing with a team of his choice. For me it goes back to "You sign a contract, for a ton of money, you agree to the terms of service under that contract, whether it is with the team you signed it with or a team that your contractual services get traded to." Unless, of course you negotiate in a "no trade clause", which I don't think AJ had.

 

[PackerRyche]

I disagree. 3 things that Willis has done and Badger QB's haven't.

1. Good game manager, doesn't make bad throws and interceptions.

2. When asked to throw, has done really well.

3. Presents the defense with a very viable threat with his legs.

This partially answers a question that I've had re: Willis. Given that Love is the greater passing threat, why does the run game seem better with Willis under center? Not sure if the stats bear that out, but it sure seems that way. Interested in opinions.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This partially answers a question that I've had re: Willis. Given that Love is the greater passing threat, why does the run game seem better with Willis under center? Not sure if the stats bear that out, but it sure seems that way. Interested in opinions.

I guess the obvious answer is this. Willis adds more of a running threat, than Love, into the equation.

However, I think you asking for stats is a good thing. Because if you take Willis's scramble yards (play was a designed pass), my hunch would be that the rushing yards might be less when Willis is in, since the defense is probably playing to stop the run, more than they are the pass.

I also think you would have to break down and weight the rushing yardage game by game, situation by situation and the quality of the defense you did it against.

So lots of variables.

Definitely a good discussion topic.

 

[gopkrs]

Just watching nfl on espn. Two guys showed that Willis/Love have a big differential pass/run. And that if LaFleur mixed in some of that (i.e., Jordan running a little); The Pack would just about be unstoppable. Most of the runs that Willis takes looks to me to be more or less injury free runs and pretty open. Jordan would have to know when to slide or go out of bounds. He's probably not in a condition to do that this week. But a little down the road this year.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Most of the runs that Willis takes looks to me to be more or less injury free runs and pretty open.

My impression is that's because by the time he breaks off and goes for it, the receivers have pulled so many DBs and even LBs 10 yards downfield that he has nothing in front of him but miles and miles of Texas. Green Bay having so many dangerous receivers downfield on almost every play may make a running QB like Willis almost as much a threat as Love.

I suspect Lafleur is a lot more confortable turning Malik loose on designed runs than he would be with Love, who's not quite the runner Willis is and would be a lot tougher to lose for a month or even more.

 

[gopkrs]

My impression is that's because by the time he breaks off and goes for it, the receivers have pulled so many DBs and even LBs 10 yards downfield that he has nothing in front of him but miles and miles of Texas. Green Bay having so many dangerous receivers downfield on almost every play may make a running QB like Willis almost as much a threat as Love.

I suspect Lafleur is a lot more confortable turning Malik loose on designed runs than he would be with Love, who's not quite the runner Willis is and would be a lot tougher to lose for a month or even more.

Yes, I agree. But there could be a couple of those calls. Just not this week because he is hurting a little. I wouldn't want to make it a habit but it sure could loosen up a few things.

 

[OldSchool101]

If it has been working then by all means stick with it. I've never been a fan of 3 runs punt. I understand the goal but like you said just be careful with the ball. I don't see a whole lot of difference in a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the first quarter when you are down by 10 and a 3rd and 5 with 5 minutes left in the game when you are up by 10.

In many cases the best way to burn the clock is moving the chains and resetting the down. 1 successful short pass can often be the equivalent of 2 scores (10 points) Its definitive.
I never understood running it 3 times UNLESS you gain 8 yards on 1st down OR 9 yards in 2 tries OR it’s inside of 10 seconds left on the game clock

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just watching nfl on espn. Two guys showed that Willis/Love have a big differential pass/run. And that if LaFleur mixed in some of that (i.e., Jordan running a little); The Pack would just about be unstoppable. Most of the runs that Willis takes looks to me to be more or less injury free runs and pretty open. Jordan would have to know when to slide or go out of bounds. He's probably not in a condition to do that this week. But a little down the road this year.

I agree to a certain extent. Run happy QB's can be a boom or a bust. Most of that due to injury. I also wouldn't want a QB that automatically runs at the first sign of pressure. I think what made both Favre and Rodgers great QB's was their ability to feel the pressure, but still get their throws off.

I like that in Love's first year and a half as a starter, he hasn't gotten into the habit of tucking and running when he feels the heat. Maybe this was by design by the coaches or maybe its just Love's way of playing. As he improves his game, I do believe he should use his wheels more, but only when necessary or its a designed QB run.

 

[gopkrs]

I agree to a certain extent. Run happy QB's can be a boom or a bust. Most of that due to injury. I also wouldn't want a QB that automatically runs at the first sign of pressure. I think what made both Favre and Rodgers great QB's was their ability to feel the pressure, but still get their throws off.

I like that in Love's first year and a half as a starter, he hasn't gotten into the habit of tucking and running when he feels the heat. Maybe this was by design by the coaches or maybe its just Love's way of playing. As he improves his game, I do believe he should use his wheels more, but only when necessary or its a designed QB run.

I tried to say, unsuccessfully, that it would be good to put in a few (meaning a couple or sometimes but not a lot) of the rpo for Love like we do much more of for Willis. I don't want Love getting hurt either but just a few of those plays would benefit the receivers getting open more easily. Just a couple and down the road when he is completely healthy or in the superbowl.

 

[sschind]

In many cases the best way to burn the clock is moving the chains and resetting the down. 1 successful short pass can often be the equivalent of 2 scores (10 points) Its definitive.
I never understood running it 3 times UNLESS you gain 8 yards on 1st down OR 9 yards in 2 tries OR it’s inside of 10 seconds left on the game clock

exactly. Every first down gives you at least three more chances to burn the clock.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Studs: Willis, Jacobs, Reed, Kraft, Cooper, McManus.
Duds: Hafley playing zone D all 4th quarter & letting Jax back into game. Let the front 5-7 put pressure on the QB, worked great for 3 quarters!

Yeah what was up with that zone? I thought Joe Barry got fired.

 

[Heyjoe4]

A little off topic, but the end of the Bears game was THEE best ending to Bears game I have ever seen!

Can't-Miss Play: Hail Mary TD! Commanders beat Bears on Daniels' 52-yard TD pass to Brown at buzzer

The Washington Commanders beat the Chicago Bears on a 52-yard Hail Mary completion from quarterback Jayden Daniels to wide receiver Noah Brown.

tw.sports.yahoo.com

Never thought they'd top the double doink, but they did. Only da Bearz could pull that off.

 

[Half Empty]

Never thought they'd top the double drink, but they did. Only da Bearz could pull that off.

Doink

 

[OldSchool101]

The Bad News Bears are Double Bad!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Doink

Damn spell check! Double doink it is! Thanks for the correction HE. I updated the comment with the correct word. Although technically it's not a word, it should be, at least within the Chicago city limits.

 

[lambeaulambo]

If the D gets tired, playing prevent, they need to be in better shape. My guess is, if they are in prevent, the Packers have a decent sized lead. Now in most cases, you get a decent sized lead because your offense has done good things with the ball and controlled the game/time clock. Also, it probably means your defense has done well and possibly played fewer snaps than the opponents defense. Being tired shouldn't be a reason to play prevent, IMO.

Being tired doesnt give you the right to tap out either!! Indy will cut him. LOL

 

[lambeaulambo]

The Bad News Bears are Double Bad!

Delicious!

 

[Heyjoe4]

I tried to say, unsuccessfully, that it would be good to put in a few (meaning a couple or sometimes but not a lot) of the rpo for Love like we do much more of for Willis. I don't want Love getting hurt either but just a few of those plays would benefit the receivers getting open more easily. Just a couple and down the road when he is completely healthy or in the superbowl.

You both make good points. The "run happy" QBs, with the big exception of Lamar Jackson - and I wouldn't say he's run happy, end up hurt and out of the league. Vick, Williams, Newton, RBIII, et al just don't last. And when they start running, it becomes an easy out when the first read is closed. And yeah, Favre and Rodgers mostly avoided those and went through their progressions.

Your point of designing QB runs off rpo though has merit. That's pretty much a designed run from the get go and ideally creates a "safe" lane for the QB. Because it's rpo, the QB can still dump it off if the lane isn't there.

As for Love - I wouldn't be too anxious to add those plays until he's back to 100%, and that may mean next year given the injuries he's had this year.