Studs and Duds vs The Lions

[Heyjoe4]

Studs-Jacobs, Kraft
Packer offense scored 31 points on only 44 plays. Good production but you won't win many games with 44 plays.
Duds- pass rush, LB's , CB's
Detroit destroyed the Packers in the middle of the field. Packer LB's aren't reacting quick enough and are out of position to continuously give up first downs. CB position is a mess. The trade of Rasul Douglas is just a disaster right now. Gute gave up a good CB and then reached for a LB in the 3rd round who sits on the bench despite injuries.
Detroit has just done a much better job of drafting and developing than the Packers. Detroit is superior and it comes from a better GM and coaching staff.

That's a good, accurate summary. The Lions came out on D knowing they were overmatched against the Packers offense, and simply went after Love. The Packers adjusted before half time, but it cost them. It was a brilliant risk to take on the part of the Lions.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Dud: poor tackling. How do you have 5 guys near the rb..3 who could have dropped him for a minimal game..and he still gains 15 yards? This defense overall..SUCKS! If the game is on the line..I know they will fold 80% of the time. 3 defensive coordinators later..this is a talent issue! How bad does Jonathan Ford have to be to never crack the lineup, with the garbage they have on the dline? What's the point of having a 6'5" 350 lb guy on your practice squad...if you have no intention of ever letting him play? He can't be any worse than what they have starting!

What I've noticed is that very few Packer defenders "wrap up" on the ball carrier. Especially in the secondary, they'll shove a guy or take a shot at his legs, but they don't wrap up or grab a jersey or anything. I don't get it. I don't think it's out of fear, just a lack of fundamentals - which is mind blowing in December.

And you're right Ronny - when they absolutely need to get a stop, they just can't. They would be better off taking some chances and blitzing more often. The result can't be worse than what has been happening.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I was impressed on how well the Packers played last night to be honest. The Lions pass rush is an enormous part of the reason they have a top defense. Even though Love was hit quite often, they gave him enough time to get the passes off. The biggest thing was he lacked touch on his shorter passes, and couldn't seem to see his outlet receivers who were wide open, and it ended up as incomplete passes.

Jacobs forced the Lions to honor the run. Most of his yards came as "yards after contact." He can slide through a small hole, and is a bull out there. Watching guys hit him with all they've got, hoping to sting him, and him getting up and walking back to the huddle, while they're getting medical help makes me smile. This is what's been lacking in LeFleur's offense until this year. Our offensive line does need some upgrades though. I think we'll see it over the off season.

On defense, everyone talks about the number of injuries the Lions have, but what the Packers had happen last night, with DBs going out during the game, after you've already been decimated by injuries is far worse. The Packers had to throw guys into the mix who were playing in different positions than they normally do, and the coverage was inadequate because of it. To me, that's what cost us dearly, and allowed the Lions to move down the field and get that game winning FG.

Our pass rush was there early, but died. They were gassed. We need more active bodies in that front seven. Injuries are hurting us.

On offense, we missed Romeo Doubs. He could have added more catches that moved the chains. I had a hunch that was going to haunt us. Let's hope he's back next week.

I thought the officiating was pretty bad, but it went both ways. They let some pretty egregious fouls happen out there without throwing the laundry. One that griped me a lot was that the Lions had offensive line blockers downfield on screen plays, before the ball was thrown. They should have been called on it. Secondly, if you're going to call that collision that Watson had as a pick, you should have been calling it against the Lions all night, because it's what they do often on their shorter passing routes.

But, that's not what won or lost the game. What lost it was our injuries. We don't have the depth yet, and it showed. Nothing to be ashamed of. I do think that if the Packers meet the Lions again, in the playoffs, and we're healthy, the Packers will beat them.

Thanks for the level-headed response V. I'm not feeling as gracious, so you calmed me down, sort of.

Williams was lost early and that hurt. And yeah, the in-game injuries meant players who hadn't practiced with the 1s were thrown in the game. Even so, the Lions plan to blitz early and often was brilliant. The Packers adjusted before the half.

But the winner last night was the Lions because they wanted it just a little more right from the start. It took the Packers about one quarter to wake up, and there's no excuse for that.

I hope there is a 3rd game, ideally the NFCCG. One thing seems clear, the path to the SB goes right through Detroit.

For now, the Packers have a good chance to win out, but it has to be just the next game. I'm optimistic and see no good reason why they can't finish 13-4. First things first. Beat Seattle.

 

[Fooksmania]

I have to say I was rather disappointed with Love. I know his numbers were respectable but watching the game he had guys open down the field and just didn't throw it. Seems the Lions filled the box and said, "Make Love beat us." Maybe I am wrong but that is what I feel I witnessed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I have to say I was rather disappointed with Love. I know his numbers were respectable but watching the game he had guys open down the field and just didn't throw it. Seems the Lions filled the box and said, "Make Love beat us." Maybe I am wrong but that is what I feel I witnessed.

You saw the same thing I did. I certainly wasn't expecting the Lions to blitz so much, so early. I don't blame MLF for going to the pass on the first series, and they did adjust to the blitz happy Lions before the half by running more. Anyway, it was a calculated risk by a depleted Lions' D and it worked for at least the 1Q.

Regardless, they caught Love off guard and rushed his decisions, leading to missed opportunities. Love has to be better in this situations, slide out of the pocket and buy some time.

The Packers ran 44 total plays - 20 P, 24 R. That's balanced, but far too few snaps. The D just couldn't get off the field, and it ground them down by Q4.

 

[El Guapo]

The game came down to two things for me:

1) The Lions injury backups played better than our injury backups

2) The Lions were more bold on offense

In terms of bold, I’m not just talking about going for it on 4th down. The Lions were in attack mode all night. We played scared on offense (save for the big Watson play) and never used the Lions defensive aggressiveness against them. They were much more creative.

We also better figure out a way to stop screen passes or everyone will kill us.

 

[AmishMafia]

I have to say I was rather disappointed with Love. I know his numbers were respectable but watching the game he had guys open down the field and just didn't throw it. Seems the Lions filled the box and said, "Make Love beat us." Maybe I am wrong but that is what I feel I witnessed.

I was coming here to post this. The Lions defense looked a lot like how the Vikings played us. Stacked the line and brought pressure every play.

The way to beat that is to do quick passes. I thought we should have run 2 TE sets with one of them slipping out for a quick slant. Make them pay. Either MLF had another idea or Love was not able to pull that off.

I'm afraid that this is now going to be the book on shutting down Love. And Detroit talent level, with the injuries, was below average.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I was coming here to post this. The Lions defense looked a lot like how the Vikings played us. Stacked the line and brought pressure every play.

The way to beat that is to do quick passes. I thought we should have run 2 TE sets with one of them slipping out for a quick slant. Make them pay. Either MLF had another idea or Love was not able to pull that off.

I'm afraid that this is now going to be the book on shutting down Love. And Detroit talent level, with the injuries, was below average.

Yeah it was a surprising and effective move by the Lions D - blitz early and often or just bring added pressure and make Love react. Love reacted, just not very well. He was sacked. He failed to move around in the pocket to buy time, and as a result open receivers were missed.

That should be an easy adjustment. Stick with the run or run screen passes - move left or right in the pocket to buy time - add another defender in the box and close gaps.

MLF did adjust in the 2Q but they only ran 44 plays all night (to 75 plays for the Lions). Tough to win with those numbers.

 

[GB2016]

You saw the same thing I did. I certainly wasn't expecting the Lions to blitz so much, so early. I don't blame MLF for going to the pass on the first series, and they did adjust to the blitz happy Lions before the half by running more. Anyway, it was a calculated risk by a depleted Lions' D and it worked for at least the 1Q.

Regardless, they caught Love off guard and rushed his decisions, leading to missed opportunities. Love has to be better in this situations, slide out of the pocket and buy some time.

The Packers ran 44 total plays - 20 P, 24 R. That's balanced, but far too few snaps. The D just couldn't get off the field, and it ground them down by Q4.

DC

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I really liked the way the D line played and the way linebackers came up to help out. But the pass rush was not much. Though Goff was sort of dinking a lot. But for decent gains. The receivers were just too wide open. We kept up but they looked to do it with more ease. Still, it's the next game that counts. I think only philly is in the way. It won't be easy but we are capable. Kraft is looking like the real deal. I am amazed how Jacobs goes into a totally clogged middle and gets through pretty good. We do need to blitz but can't let receivers be so open 7 or 8 yards down the field. I think we'll be more ready if we get to play them again. We've got a good team.

Was it just me or did we Not persist in running the ball?

 

[BrokenArrow]

Stud: Jacobs
Dud: the D let them march right down the field for the win, The Lions made a statement, this is their division now, MLF, I hope you can clean this up NOW!

The D didn't let them "march right down the field." We had them in a 2nd and 17 situation at the 37 yard line. Their receiver was allowed to run 15 yards downfield right at Nixon and literally shove him to get open. I mean the punk literally made the motion that is the pass interference hand signal! It should have been 3rd and 32 at the Packers 48 yard line after that play. The refs gifted them 31 yards and literally handed them the game.

 

[BrokenArrow]

The game came down to two things for me:

1) The Lions injury backups played better than our injury backups

2) The Lions were more bold on offense

In terms of bold, I’m not just talking about going for it on 4th down. The Lions were in attack mode all night. We played scared on offense (save for the big Watson play) and never used the Lions defensive aggressiveness against them. They were much more creative.

We also better figure out a way to stop screen passes or everyone will kill us.

You guys talk like we got blown out by them. The fact is the game was tied at their house and the difference in the game came down to an obvious offensive PI that the refs refused to call. We played every bit as well in this game as they did. We scored 31 offensive points on just 44 plays. How often does that happen?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Duds: Refs for ignoring textbook offensive PI in the last minute which had a big affect on the game.

I was wondering why MLF was so livid before and after the 2 minute warning. Turns out it was a bunch of things (article below).

I still don't know how the Lions kept getting away with hitting Love well after the pass was released. The hit to the head from Za'Darius was a blatantly missed call. I do find it odd/funny/pathetically sad that the league is pretending to crack down on blows to the head, yet a play like that, can't be called on a quick review or even a coaches challenge. Yet, minor infractions can be reversed with or even without a challenge.

I don't really like pissing and moaning about bad ref calls, but that group out there last might was about as inconsistent as they come.

Ref show: Packers fuming after controversial calls hand Lions huge divisional win

Green Bay was playing Detroit and the refs on Thursday night.

fansided.com

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree with you guys a lot of really good observations imo

I know for myself I’ve discounted Lions slightly. I think their Offense is as good as any KC Offense in the last several seasons. They are efficient. They are talented. They are well coached. They are assertive. They are not perfect but they severely limit mistakes.

Our D is in that top 8 scoring strength wise if FULLY healthy. Without Jaire or Cooper maybe top 10-12 scoring D. The Lions Offense isn’t going to be stopped unless you force mistakes. Mistakes happen with a Pass Rush and good Run D. We score B+ on Run Defense, but I’d give a C grade Pass Rush. Against a great OL it’s only adequate at best. Tell me what you think also but We NEED 1 more DE that is Gary level or better added to the mix imo. Enagbare and LVN are good rotational guys you need that also. But losing Preston didn’t make us better. Also losing Rasul for a RB that hadn’t seen the field was hurtful imo. We took a chance on Stokes and lost. He’s toast he’s barely a starter imo.

We’re short 1 +starter caliber DE and
1 + starter caliber CB. + meaning above average. That’s EXACTLY what we traded away inside the last 12 months. We did ZERO to improve our team. 2024 shouldn’t be a “training ground” for those losses. We’re going “experimental” in a Win Now season. We all saw how close we were to Lions, but they are still about 3 points better imo and we can’t rely on bad referees to help us.

IMO our best shot is staying healthy and getting +1 Defender back. J’aire preferable. Also getting +1 Offensive weapon Musgrave preferable. I do know Marshawn in space is substantial and I think he’ll be back in a couple weeks. He’s underestimated and good RB’s have immediate effects.
Look at Bucky Irving
1,017 yards from scrimmage.
I think Marshawn is close or better with 8.2 yards per touch at USC last season and rising. If he was a WR or TE I’d concede. RB often get instant production. 1st professional carry was 13 yards. That flag had no effect. We’ve got to have juice added to either D or O or both.

 

[El Guapo]

You guys talk like we got blown out by them. The fact is the game was tied at their house and the difference in the game came down to an obvious offensive PI that the refs refused to call. We played every bit as well in this game as they did. We scored 31 offensive points on just 44 plays. How often does that happen?

You think I was trashing them like they got blown out? We lost. I listed two reasons why that happened.

I think the bigger problem is you blaming the refs for why we lost. That's petty. Win the game on the field. Don't leave it up to a ref's call or non-call.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Was it just me or did we Not persist in running the ball?

I liked the that stud Jacobs was able to run on this D but that will not win it alone the passing has to be consistent to beat a good team like Detroit

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe Cooper will eventually be the answer at LB, but will the Packers ever have a LB that can cover the short-middle of the field? Had I been calling plays for the Lions last night, I would have just kept attacking the Packers defense with short passes 5-10 yards from the LOS, between the hashmarks. The Packers have very little defense against that type of pass, nor do they have a pass rush that prevents the opposing QB from being patient and letting that play develop.

Hats off to Lions OC Ben Johnson. He had a number of plays in his arsenal that he knew where "just can't miss plays". He seemed to pull those out of his hat when needed and Hafley and the Packer players had zero answers.

 

[OldSchool101]

You think I was trashing them like they got blown out? We lost. I listed two reasons why that happened.

I think the bigger problem is you blaming the refs for why we lost. That's petty. Win the game on the field. Don't leave it up to a ref's call or non-call.

I agree. We probably were - in the flags but we can’t control ticky tack. What we can control?

Getting the ball out quickly early on. Don’t give them ANY momentum in over aggression. After they blitz at 110% 6-7 times trust me they’ll begin to tire. We let Detroit set the tone in possession #1

Go no huddle immediately if you beed to wake up. Hi uptempo would be better than what we saw. We had 3 passes going into Halftime!! Hit yiur TE for 6 yards. Hit your RB for 2-3 yards in space. Let their D overpursue. Welcome it. We looked timid and afraid for 2 qtrs. Lions looked assertive emotional and fired up. We literally look like we woke up 15 minutes ago. It was hard to watch that play calling earlier in.

Come out to Win. Challenge your offense to go 2-minute drill. They sacked us in PLAY #1. Did we think they’d rush 3 to set the tone?? We’re looking for a 20+ play earlier instead of going over the top for 5 yards. It sure didn’t work!! -7. I’d rather go
0-3 for 0 yards instead we helped them pump up the D and fans

 

[Magooch]

Another random thing - was thinking yesterday that in this instance I would've liked it if we had taken the ball first rather than defer. We heard all week in the run up to the game that Detroit's defense was all banged up. What better opportunity to set the tone than to take the ball and drive down and score right on that depleted defense? Yet again I find myself feeling like we are generally content to let our opponent make the first move and dictate terms and us respond rather than the other way around.

 

[Magooch]

Maybe Cooper will eventually be the answer at LB, but will the Packers ever have a LB that can cover the short-middle of the field? Had I been calling plays for the Lions last night, I would have just kept attacking the Packers defense with short passes 5-10 yards from the LOS, between the hashmarks. The Packers have very little defense against that type of pass, nor do they have a pass rush that prevents the opposing QB from being patient and letting that play develop.

Hats off to Lions OC Ben Johnson. He had a number of plays in his arsenal that he knew where "just can't miss plays". He seemed to pull those out of his hat when needed and Hafley and the Packer players had zero answers.

Yeah there's just no easy solution at the moment either. Our LBs suck at playing zone, but our secondary is too depleted to try and play man right now. And more broadly speaking it feels like we've seldom been effective in zone any time in recent memory (talking over the last few years, not just with Hafley) so maybe we should just say screw it and send more pressure....except our DL gets so little pressure that it's basically choosing to take a man out of the play for no reason. And then since the DL can't get pressure, the secondary has to try and maintain their coverage longer and when you've got a guy like Stokes out there having to start, he's like 5 steps behind his man on every snap so it's never gonna work. Cooper's basically the only LB we have who can cover worth a lick , so what are you gonna do...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Another random thing - was thinking yesterday that in this instance I would've liked it if we had taken the ball first rather than defer. We heard all week in the run up to the game that Detroit's defense was all banged up. What better opportunity to set the tone than to take the ball and drive down and score right on that depleted defense? Yet again I find myself feeling like we are generally content to let our opponent make the first move and dictate terms and us respond rather than the other way around.

Seems like the previous games Matt took the ball to start the game, if he won the toss. He changed that up last night and it did kind of backfire, but remember, the Packers got the ball to start the 2nd half and that is when the game turned around.

I can only guess as to how he makes the decision, but on the road, with a loud crowd that is ready to start screaming from the kickoff on, I might choose to kick it off too. If your defense gets a stop, that might quiet a few fans for your opening offensive series.

I'm actually more curious about Matt's timeout strategy at the end of halves. He did it again yesterday, usuing TO's during Detroit's drive at the end of the first half. I don't get that strategy. Detroit was in full control of the clock and the ball, giving them more time to run the ball, pick up first downs, strategize, etc. just doesn't make sense to me. Same thing happened in a previous game. Oh boy, give the ball back to Love with 11 seconds on the clock, after the Lions score a TD? Come on MATT!

To confuse me even more, in the 2nd half, the Lions run a play that ends with 2:41 left on the clock. What does Matt do with his 2 timeouts? Sits on them. WTF Matt?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah there's just no easy solution at the moment either. Our LBs suck at playing zone, but our secondary is too depleted to try and play man right now. And more broadly speaking it feels like we've seldom been effective in zone any time in recent memory (talking over the last few years, not just with Hafley) so maybe we should just say screw it and send more pressure....except our DL gets so little pressure that it's basically choosing to take a man out of the play for no reason. And then since the DL can't get pressure, the secondary has to try and maintain their coverage longer and when you've got a guy like Stokes out there having to start, he's like 5 steps behind his man on every snap so it's never gonna work. Cooper's basically the only LB we have who can cover worth a lick , so what are you gonna do...

Agree, but I would rather see Walker and McDuffie blitzing, than trying to cover ANYONE. While I think Hafley is doing an ok job as DC, his blitz packages are predictable and suck. The Lions were shorthanded on the OL, backup LT Dan Skipper was constantly getting beat or just grabbing jerseys all night long. I would have loaded up on that side and made them pay for it.

How many times have we seen the Packer defense just sit back and let an opposing QB have all day to throw the ball? I don't care how good of DB's and LB's you have, someone is going to get open. I hope MLF and Hafley took notes on how the Lions play defense. They had Love off balance all night long, with backups no less.

 

[Pkrjones]

Is a screen pass even on MLF's call sheet? With the blitzing & jail-house pass rush a screen would've been a huge gainer...if it was called . Other teams mix in a healthy dose of screens to burn GB, why won't MLF capitalize?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is a screen pass even on MLF's call sheet? With the blitzing & jail-house pass rush a screen would've been a huge gainer...if it was called . Other teams mix in a healthy dose of screens to burn GB, why won't MLF capitalize?

I was wondering the same thing last night and thought maybe Love's pick 6's has removed those calls off of MLF's call sheet?

I'm also going to say it again. Matt needs to hand his play sheet to a full time OC. Ben Johnson once again schooled Matt on effective play calling. I don't doubt Matt has a solid offensive mind, I just think he is juggling too many balls to do it well.

 

[Schultz]

As I watched this game. I think we miss Doubs more in a game like this than I thought. Wicks is ok but he’s more like a 4th WR. Doubs is best in that 10-20 yard range. I’m glad we rested Doubs, but I think his absence was noticed.

We held their Rushing Offense to 3.3 yards per. That’s actually really impressive. Everyone was touting how this was the best RB duo in the league? Stud
Run D
Kraft
Jacobs
Yes even Love. Love actually beat Goff in Passer rating.111% He played clean and he was under duress much of the game. no INT but gave us a chance at Ford Field and played mostly clean. Not his best game, but played very respectable.


I’m not taking anything from Detroit. They were 4/5 on 4th down. Who goes for it on your own 30? Wow
Stud. Lions Asserting their Will

They are the best RB duo in the league. IMO the screens and dump offs to the RBs is why the defense could not stop Detroit.