WR corps

[Pokerbrat2000]

Why did the Chiefs cut him?

Probably to make room for former Arizona Cardinal WR and FA Chad Williams who they signed to their practice squad the next day. Williams has played for 3 seasons in the NFL.

The WR group of Hill, Watkins, Robinson, Hardman, Pringle and Kemp is a pretty talented group, Lipscomb is probably happy he was cut by the Chiefs and then signed by the Packers.

 

[Poppa San]

Lipscomb is probably happy he was cut by the Chiefs and then signed by the Packers.

Going from catching passes from Mahomes to Rodgers. Like going from driving a Ferrari into a Lamborghini.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Going from catching passes from Mahomes to Rodgers. Like going from driving a Ferrari into a Lamborghini.

That and I am guessing he has a much better shot in Green Bay to play this season and try to prove himself.. The Packers have already called up Shepherd and Begelton from the PS, so if Lipscomb can catch the coaches eyes, he probably has a decent shot at catching some balls this year from A-Rod.

I look at someone like Jake Kumerow who was on the Packers 53 and even started 4 games in 2019, this year he is stuck on the Bills practice squad. Green Bay, especially with Rodgers, has to be a pretty desirable place right now for a WR to want to come.

 

[PackerDNA]

With the trade deadline coming up, there's a lot more talk again from various sites and writers about the Packers trading with Houston for Kenny Stills. The general consensus is it would only take a mid or late round pick.

 

[tynimiller]

With the trade deadline coming up, there's a lot more talk again from various sites and writers about the Packers trading with Houston for Kenny Stills. The general consensus is it would only take a mid or late round pick.

Some of us have hashed that idea out a little...I'm not opposed to the move, but I'm 5th round or later for what Stills is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Some of us have hashed that idea out a little...I'm not opposed to the move, but I'm 5th round or later for what Stills is.

Stills instantly upgrades your WR group, he would take some time though to learn the offense and get on the same page with #12. But that is going to be the case with just about any WR you bring in at this point. My only issue with Stills, his contract is up at the end of the year and I hate giving up picks for what would amount to probably about a 1/2 year rental by the time he is ready to play. I would hope the Packers would have some kind of idea of what it would take to sign him to a new one or get the Texans to extend his current contract before the trade. All that said, if the deal was a 5th or later, given that he would cost the Packers around $5M this year, he just might be the piece on offense that puts them in much better position for a Super Bowl run, as well as great insurance if Adams goes down again.

 

[GleefulGary]

Stills is a plus version of MVS.

Or at least he was. I have no idea if he still has his speed. Haven’t kept up with the guy at all.

 

[tynimiller]

Stills is a plus version of MVS.

Or at least he was. I have no idea if he still has his speed. Haven’t kept up with the guy at all.

He isn't any longer, but can still scoot

 

[Dantés]

Stills is a plus version of MVS.

Or at least he was. I have no idea if he still has his speed. Haven’t kept up with the guy at all.

He doesn't seem as explosive as he was once upon a time, but he still made some plays down the field last year. But his air yards per target took a pretty precipitous drop off-- from 16.4 to 10.7.

I don't know if that was because of ability or usage. He's only 28.

 

[tynimiller]

Honestly I think a really good Kenny Stills is about the best comp for MVS and what the organization hopes he becomes.

Stills has an insanely large sample size but let's look at some average comps:

Stills/MVS is order of stats and MVS is bolded.
Yards Per Catch: 15.6/16.4
Targets Per Game: 4.63/4.28
% of Targets that were caught: 59.2%/49.4%
TD/Season (not including 2020): 4.5/2.0

Let's look at just the last three seasons so like 2.25 seasons worth:

Stills has 85 Receptions for 1,218 yards or 14.33YPC. 11 TDs
MVS has 76 Receptions for 1,243 yards or 16.4YPC and 5 TDs

Stills even at this point in his career is in many ways a more polished version of MVS.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have to think that Gute is at least keeping his eyes open for a WR. Yes, the Packers are 4-0, the offense has played really well (against not so great defenses), but people are going to be pretty hard pressed to make an argument that the WR group has exceeded expectations. If one wants to make that argument, I would say that your expectations for this group was even lower than mine. Stills is an instant #3 and eventually your #2. If the Packers can get Lazard back, I love the idea of Adams, Stills, Lazard and bringing in MVS occasionally to stretch the defense.

To me a guy like Stills would be what the Packers are looking for.

• most likely a reasonable cost to obtain (5th or later)
• reasonably priced (~$5M for rest of season)
• 28 yrs old, so still has some good years ahead of him
• has shown talent at times, just been stuck with bad teams the last 5+ years
• currently he is stuck behind Cooks, Fuller and Cobb on the depth chart and has seen less than half as many snaps as each of them.
• Texans are 0-4 and loaded at WR, his contract is up at the end of the year, they might want to get something similar to a compensatory pick for 2021, clear some money off the books
• Stills himself might shine in Green Bay, on a winning team and Rodgers as his QB

 

[tynimiller]

Honestly have a question - those more aware of if possible let me know.

Can a condition of the trade be they cover some of this year's cost?

I'd be willing to part with as high as a 4th rounder IF they covered say $2M or so of the remaining salary. Honestly, I'd have been more excited about a Still signing than a Funchess and still would be more excited if they convinced him into a 2021 contract and let Funchess walk.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Honestly I think a really good Kenny Stills is about the best comp for MVS and what the organization hopes he becomes.

Stills has an insanely large sample size but let's look at some average comps:

Stills/MVS is order of stats and MVS is bolded.
Yards Per Catch: 15.6/16.4
Targets Per Game: 4.63/4.28
% of Targets that were caught: 59.2%/49.4%
TD/Season (not including 2020): 4.5/2.0

Let's look at just the last three seasons so like 2.25 seasons worth:

Stills has 85 Receptions for 1,218 yards or 14.33YPC. 11 TDs
MVS has 76 Receptions for 1,243 yards or 16.4YPC and 5 TDs

Stills even at this point in his career is in many ways a more polished version of MVS.

Good numbers, but I also think its important to look at where each guy played to obtain those numbers. Meaning I think everything else being equal, Stills has even better numbers if he had been playing in Green Bay with Aaron Rodgers as his QB. The catch rate is also important to point out, % of Targets that were caught: 59.2%/49.4%. When you are looking at a WR as more of a homerun threat and not a guy that just moves the chains, that catch rate can really add up to a lot more yards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Honestly have a question - those more aware of if possible let me know.

Can a condition of the trade be they cover some of this year's cost?

I'd be willing to part with as high as a 4th rounder IF they covered say $2M or so of the remaining salary. Honestly, I'd have been more excited about a Still signing than a Funchess and still would be more excited if they convinced him into a 2021 contract and let Funchess walk.

I could be wrong, but I do not think that the teams can play around with money like that. Now what could be done is this. The Texans, Packers and Stills all agree to an extension/restructure of his current contract w/ the Texans, with some kind of bonus, which the Texans absorb. That to me would be the preferred deal, if the money and trade compensation is favorable of course.

 

[tynimiller]

I could be wrong, but I do not think that the teams can play around with money like that. Now what could be done is this. The Texans, Packers and Stills all agree to an extension/restructure of his current contract w/ the Texans, with some kind of bonus, which the Texans absorb. That to me would be the preferred deal, if the money and trade compensation is favorable of course.

That makes sense and is exactly what I'd do if in a conversation with them. Look if we're stuck with this figure for a not even a full season we are at only a 6th...however I'll go as high as a 4th should you eat more and more of that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That makes sense and is exactly what I'd do if in a conversation with them. Look if we're stuck with this figure for a not even a full season we are at only a 6th...however I'll go as high as a 4th should you eat more and more of that.

Yup. The only problem is next years cap. While the Packers definitely need help at WR (IMO), they also can't be spending cap they don't have. I can't imagine many teams, including the Texans will want to pay Stills all that much money. So maybe considering where the cap will be next year and the uncertainty that creates with free agents a cheap extension of one more year for a "prove it" deal would be acceptable to Stills. That would give the Packers Adams, Stills, Lazard, Funchess, MVS and ESB for 2021. But the bigger bonus, at least for posters here, that just might shut me up for awhile too.

 

[gopkrs]

Believe I broke down Lipscomb as a favorite of my late rounders in draft discussions...I'll have to dig it up.

people are going to be pretty hard pressed to make an argument that the WR group has exceeded expectations.

No, but they "might" exceed expectations is why I am not so anxious to go out and get anyone.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

"might"

Isn't that the word that most used to start the season to describe the WR group? So now that we are 4 games in, has the WR group met or exceeded your preseason expectations? Try to set aside the fact that the Packers are 4-0 and the offense is clicking. I realize that is hard to do and I am not saying that to be a ****. When I look strictly at our WR group, besides Adams, who has been out 2+ games and Lazard, who will be out for who knows how long, I don't see anything very special at all. Better yet, ask yourself "Is the offenses success because of the WR's not named Adams or Lazard?"

So how long do you give "might" a chance to become "have"? The trade deadline is 2 weeks from today. Also, remember that the Packers aren't the only team possibly to be looking to improve via a trade.

 

[gopkrs]

I just don't think we are going to go out and make a deal for us to win the superbowl. I also think our guys are good. Man, Davante has not even been playing. And there are going to be other positions that might be of greater use to us down the line. I honestly don't see the hurry.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just don't think we are going to go out and make a deal for us to win the superbowl. I also think our guys are good. Man, Davante has not even been playing. And there are going to be other positions that might be of greater use to us down the line. I honestly don't see the hurry.

Which WRs are good in your opinion, besides Davante and Lazard?

I also get peoples point that "if we can keep winning with what we have at WR, the Packers should prioritize another position of greater need". However, that isn't a statement of "our WR group is good" it is a statement of "for now, based on the rest of the offense, our WR group is good enough".

I hope the Packers continue to roll on Sunday, the Bucs defense is going to be a good litmus test to see where it actually is.

 

[gopkrs]

Which WRs are good in your opinion, besides Davante and Lazard?

I also get peoples point that "if we can keep winning with what we have at WR, the Packers should prioritize another position of greater need". However, that isn't a statement of "our WR group is good" it is a statement of "for now, based on the rest of the offense, our WR group is good enough".

I hope the Packers continue to roll on Sunday, the Bucs defense is going to be a good litmus test to see where it actually is.

I guess I should say pass catchers. Got to include TEs and halfbacks/gadget players. I still think Sternberger will show up. Not that he is going to take over for Tonyan anytime soon.

 

[Mondio]

For once our offense isn't driven by WR's. So while we're not nearly as strong there as we have been in the past, we're not as weak there as some would have you believe, we don't need to be either. Yes it's not ideal, but then if our top 4 were actually available, I think we're more than fine for what this offense requires out of the WR position. Plenty fine. Even without, our offense is plenty talented to score enough points to win it all in this league.

 

[PackerDNA]

If EQ can make even one play this week, it could be a game changer, giving Tampa something else to worry about.

 

[Poppa San]

Before I throw the towel in on MVS, I want to see him on the field with our true #1 WR. He isn't it, yet has been trying to do it the last three games. He looked good enough week one as a #2 which is probably his ceiling.

 

[gbgary]

Once again, it's possible Love develops into another HOF quarterback for the Packers but it's not likely.

sure it's unlikely but in this offense he doesn't have to be.