WR corps

[gopkrs]

It's pretty obvious that you don't have a clue about the advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie contract because you don't understand the details on how the salary cap works.

To answer your question, Love would cost way too much money if it takes until his fifth year in the league to be a first year starter.

Yes, I have a clue and that would be the best scenario. But teams that worry about that excessively end up gambling on somebody. So unless you are lucky, you end up chasing QBs for who knows how long. In that case we would need to wait for Rodgers to really be on his last legs. Well, do you feel lucky? I'll leave the punk out.

 

[PikeBadger]

To Capt. I’m waiting on GleefulGary’s definition. My definition is any player who is currently not under contract and is not restricted to any club.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Most importantly the Packers wouldn't have been able to take advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal, something that is extremely valuable under the current CBA but conveniently ignored around here.



Do you honestly believe that any of Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Trubisky or Watson have a realistic chance to develop into HOFers?



You understand that Gutekunst has a much different approach to building the roster than Thompson, don't you?

Under Thompson the Packers were annually amongst the league leaders in snaps played by rookies, an approach you claimed to be the smart way.

This year, the team doesn't get close to any out of their draft picks. But now you claim that to be the best approach.

So tell me, which one is it in your opinion???



There's no way Newton comes anywhere close to making it to Canton, Ryan doesn't deserve to be inducted either.

It's true that Luck had a decent chance nut he was considered a generational talent, something that definitely doesn't apply to Love.



It's definitely odd to evaluate MVS based on a single play but boy did he look clueless on it.

Cam makes the HOF period, he has the most TD's by a QB EVER and is 31. He's probably in the league for another 5 years and will only extend his #'s. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

If Ryan plays until he's 40 he'll easily surpass Marino's records. That makes him a HOF QB in my book.

 

[GleefulGary]

If we're betting on virtually any 25 year old player making the HOF, the smart money is always going to be on "no." Because it's just a really hard thing to do. But Watson has a shot.

In my opinion, MVS is probably not ever going to be a back shoulder weapon. But I'll just keep reiterating that this notion that one play proves anything makes very little sense.

Some guys are really great at back shoulder catches.

Some guys are capable of toasting a CB on a go route when the CB is in off coverage.

Very few are good at both. People need to realize what MVS is, and isn’t, and perhaps start to realize that his contributions on the field typically don’t show up on the box score. Is he great? No. Is he replaceable? Absolutely. Does he play an important role? Yes!

 

[GleefulGary]

To Capt. I’m waiting on GleefulGary’s definition. My definition is any player who is currently not under contract and is not restricted to any club.

I don’t even recall the question, lol.

 

[Dantés]

Some guys are really great at back shoulder catches.

Some guys are capable of toasting a CB on a go route when the CB is in off coverage.

Very few are good at both. People need to realize what MVS is, and isn’t, and perhaps start to realize that his contributions on the field typically don’t show up on the box score. Is he great? No. Is he replaceable? Absolutely. Does he play an important role? Yes!

And I would add that people need to realize that if you want to write a player off, you will always be able to find that "one play."

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

That’s just it.... he has hardly played at all. I agree with Packfan2 above... I’d like to see him play, but I have no idea how you have concluded any of this based on the little bit he played 2 years ago.

I think this is the trap that fans fall into, myself included. They see a guy, watch some highlight reels and then hope/assume he is going to be the next great player for their team. However, at some point you just have to be honest with yourself and say "ok, given where this guy was drafted, how little he has played and even when he did play, it was a mix of good and bad, maybe I should lower my expectations on him? WR seems to be one of those positions where it is really easy to get big eyed and have unrealistically raised expectations. Part of that might be the position and I think in regards to the Packers, some of it has to do with the guy throwing them the ball making them look better than they actually are. This year I see that with MVS. Rodgers has in most part delivered him the ball right where it has to be and it seems like it has been a 50/50 proposition on MVS catching it.

I am in no means saying that EQ will become the next big thing, but I believe he will be far more consistent than MVS. EQ might post a steady stat line that equates to 600-700 yds rec and 6 TD, meanwhile MVS could do the same but he gets 60% of his yards off 4 games alone.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am in no means saying that EQ will become the next big thing, but I believe he will be far more consistent than MVS. EQ might post a steady stat line that equates to 600-700 yds rec and 6 TD, meanwhile MVS could do the same but he gets 60% of his yards off 4 games alone.

I know you weren't. I'm excited about seeing ESB as well, but I think at this point the odds of him turning into a bust are greater than the odds of him turning into an every game productive WR. I base that on the history of the position in Green Bay, his injuries and past performances.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

That is correct.

Pokerbrat has me blocked for some inane reason, so that's why he's confused.

If he had you blocked, it was obviously for a reason AND he followed the advice of the rules of the forum. Not really cool to make statements about stuff like that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If we're betting on virtually any 25 year old player making the HOF, the smart money is always going to be on "no." Because it's just a really hard thing to do. But Watson has a shot.

True, but there are some players who at age 25 have shown enough to be optimistic about making it to the HOF down the road. Watson hasn't done enough to justify that in my opinion.

In my opinion, MVS is probably not ever going to be a back shoulder weapon. But I'll just keep reiterating that this notion that one play proves anything makes very little sense.

I agree it doesn't make sense to make a final judgement on any player based on one play.

But teams that worry about that excessively end up gambling on somebody.

NFL teams definitely need to worry about the salary cap.

Cam makes the HOF period, he has the most TD's by a QB EVER and is 31. He's probably in the league for another 5 years and will only extend his #'s. To think otherwise is incredibly naive.

You mean Newton is the all-time leader in rushing touchdowns among quarterbacks. He's not anywhere close to making it to the HOF as a passer though.

If Ryan plays until he's 40 he'll easily surpass Marino's records. That makes him a HOF QB in my book.

Ryan is playing in a different era though. In my opinion he doesn't deserve to being inducted in Canton either.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think Cam or Ryan are HOF candidates at all. But it seems HOF passes are easier for WR's and QB's these days so it wouldn't surprise me. Cheapens the HOF if you ask me. I've watched all the QB's in this era play and I don't think Cam or Ryan are anywhere near Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Ben.

 

[Dantés]

True, but there are some players who at age 25 have shown enough to be optimistic about making it to the HOF down the road. Watson hasn't done enough to justify that in my opinion.

That's interesting. I have not looked into that before.

Watson's current pace, at 25, would put him over 50,000 yards if he played to about 34. That would be fringe top 10 all time (though we have to consider that in the current era, others will also be moving up that list of all time passing leaders). He is also on pace for 330+ touchdown passes if he plays that long, which would also be fringe top 10 all time (with the same caveat).

He's also on pace, again with a target age of 34, for about 6000 yards rushing and about 75 rushing touchdowns. That pace will definitely slow with age, but 4500 and 60 would be pretty reasonable estimates respectively.

I would say a guy that's on track for what would currently be top 10 all time passing numbers, plus 4-5K rushing yards and as many rushing touchdowns as Terrell Davis, is giving us about as much reason for optimism as all but the most elite 25 yo QB's.

 

[GleefulGary]

If he had you blocked, it was obviously for a reason AND he followed the advice of the rules of the forum. Not really cool to make statements about stuff like that.

It was meant as humor.

My apologies.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

True, but there are some players who at age 25 have shown enough to be optimistic about making it to the HOF down the road. Watson hasn't done enough to justify that in my opinion.



I agree it doesn't make sense to make a final judgement on any player based on one play.



NFL teams definitely need to worry about the salary cap.



You mean Newton is the all-time leader in rushing touchdowns among quarterbacks. He's not anywhere close to making it to the HOF as a passer though.



Ryan is playing in a different era though. In my opinion he doesn't deserve to being inducted in Canton either.

Yes, most rushing tds by a QB ever. As if they keep him out of Canton.

Regardless of era, they won't keep Ryan out if he breaks Mario's records.

 

[swhitset]

Yes, most rushing tds by a QB ever. As if they keep him out of Canton.

Regardless of era, they won't keep Ryan out if he breaks Mario's records.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that. With no rings ... not many voters are going to consider him to be in Marino’s class. This is a different league with much more inflated passing stats and the voters know that.

 

[Mondio]

Maybe cam should try and get in as a RB? Sorry, but if your a HOF QB, have more tds than Ryan Fitzpatrick in this era of QBs.

I dbout there’s a qb in the modern era of the league that ran it as many times as Cam Newton in the redzone.

he scored on volume of carries but doesn’t have the passing TDs to elevate him. He’s not even close to a HOF candidate in my opinion. I don’t think he’s hardly top 10 QB in the past decade, and I don’t think that many should get in. It’s supposed to be best of the best, not just a starter for a team.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Maybe cam should try and get in as a RB? Sorry, but if your a HOF QB, have more tds than Ryan Fitzpatrick in this era of QBs.

I dbout there’s a qb in the modern era of the league that ran it as many times as Cam Newton in the redzone.

he scored on volume of carries but doesn’t have the passing TDs to elevate him. He’s not even close to a HOF candidate in my opinion. I don’t think he’s hardly top 10 QB in the past decade, and I don’t think that many should get in. It’s supposed to be best of the best, not just a starter for a team.

But that's just it, QB's don't run as much in the red zone because they're not built like Cam. He's unique. A force to be reckoned with and it's led him to the most TD's (rushing) ever by a QB. There's a place for QB's like that in the hall IMO - who played the position differently, and the best to ever do so.

Why compare him to Fitzpatrick? Old man Fitz has been in the league since 2005, in 15 seasons he has 16 rushing touchdowns. Cam has 62 since 2011. Not only that, Cam has had two years effectively ruined by a shoulder injury that affected his throwing motion. He had to literally retrain his arm to throw downfield. He may still play for another 5 plus years. Putting 80+ rushing TD's in the realm of possibility. Is a QB who is on pace to pass the rushing td marks of Priest Holmes, Marshawn Lynch, Jerome Bettis, etc. going to miss the hall? Doubtful.

I can go on... Cam had young WR's to throw to his last couple years in Carolina as they rebuilt their WR core, and has basically nobody to throw to consistently in New England. Despite that, they are still productive on offense. Per PFF, over the first three games this year Newton’s passing grade on throws of 10-plus yards was the fifth-highest in the NFL (he missed the subsequent games because of COVID). So he hasn't lost anything in his game. He can pass downfield, and he's crushing it in the red zone rushing. He hasn't shown signs of slowing down.

Lock for the HOF.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Regardless of era, they won't keep Ryan out if he breaks Mario's records.

Marino doesn't hold any records of significance anymore though.

But that's just it, QB's don't run as much in the red zone because they're not built like Cam. He's unique. A force to be reckoned with and it's led him to the most TD's (rushing) ever by a QB. There's a place for QB's like that in the hall IMO - who played the position differently, and the best to ever do so.

Why compare him to Fitzpatrick? Old man Fitz has been in the league since 2005, in 15 seasons he has 16 rushing touchdowns. Cam has 62 since 2011. Not only that, Cam has had two years effectively ruined by a shoulder injury that affected his throwing motion. He had to literally retrain his arm to throw downfield. He may still play for another 5 plus years. Putting 80+ rushing TD's in the realm of possibility. Is a QB who is on pace to pass the rushing td marks of Priest Holmes, Marshawn Lynch, Jerome Bettis, etc. going to miss the hall? Doubtful.

I can go on... Cam had young WR's to throw to his last couple years in Carolina as they rebuilt their WR core, and has basically nobody to throw to consistently in New England. Despite that, they are still productive on offense. Per PFF, over the first three games this year Newton’s passing grade on throws of 10-plus yards was the fifth-highest in the NFL (he missed the subsequent games because of COVID). So he hasn't lost anything in his game. He can pass downfield, and he's crushing it in the red zone rushing. He hasn't shown signs of slowing down.

Lock for the HOF.

Since entering the league in 2011 Newton is 28th out of 33 quarterbacks with at least 1,500 pass attempts.

There's no doubt he's a dangerous runner but will come nowhere close to making it to Canton as a quarterback.

 

[Mondio]

But that's just it, QB's don't run as much in the red zone because they're not built like Cam. He's unique. A force to be reckoned with and it's led him to the most TD's (rushing) ever by a QB. There's a place for QB's like that in the hall IMO - who played the position differently, and the best to ever do so.

Why compare him to Fitzpatrick? Old man Fitz has been in the league since 2005, in 15 seasons he has 16 rushing touchdowns. Cam has 62 since 2011. Not only that, Cam has had two years effectively ruined by a shoulder injury that affected his throwing motion. He had to literally retrain his arm to throw downfield. He may still play for another 5 plus years. Putting 80+ rushing TD's in the realm of possibility. Is a QB who is on pace to pass the rushing td marks of Priest Holmes, Marshawn Lynch, Jerome Bettis, etc. going to miss the hall? Doubtful.

I can go on... Cam had young WR's to throw to his last couple years in Carolina as they rebuilt their WR core, and has basically nobody to throw to consistently in New England. Despite that, they are still productive on offense. Per PFF, over the first three games this year Newton’s passing grade on throws of 10-plus yards was the fifth-highest in the NFL (he missed the subsequent games because of COVID). So he hasn't lost anything in his game. He can pass downfield, and he's crushing it in the red zone rushing. He hasn't shown signs of slowing down.

Lock for the HOF.

Go on and on, Cam isn't that good of a QB. Yeah, he could run in the redzone, but he wasn't much of a runner, at least Vick could do that. He got his TD's by volume too. He wasn't better at getting them, he just attempted runs in that situation more than the rest. 2-3, 4 or more times more than others. He should have more TD's since he did it more, quite a bit more. and it's not like that made him a more effective QB. Likely shortened career and if he had at least respectable passing numbers maybe I'd agree.

So let's ditch the Fitz argument, because it was just a quick off the cuff comparison, how about have more throwing TD's than Andy Dalton. How about that. Which he doesn't. I don't care if he has 30 more Rushing TD' in 10 years than another QB, he has in the neighborhood of 2-300 LESS TD's than your current crop of HOF QB's. BFD if you ask me. You could probably line that guy up in New Orleans every time they're inside the 10 and have him punch in TD's as a QB too. Won't make him a HOF QB either. Cam struggled with so much else playing the position. He was big, yay.

 

[thequick12]

Yes, most rushing tds by a QB ever. As if they keep him out of Canton.

Regardless of era, they won't keep Ryan out if he breaks Mario's records.

Cam newton needs to win 2 super bowl while putting up very good numbers for the rest of his career to make it and I don't see that happening at all

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers placed another Rookie on IR, 6th round pick Center Jake Hanson.

They then signed WR Kalija Lipscomb to the Practice squad, who was released by the Chiefs last week. Lipscomb was considered one of the top UDFA WR's and the Chiefs payed him pretty well if I remember correctly. High Football IQ, but quite a bit to work on with his game. The Packers now have 4 WR's on the 16 man PS.

 

[GleefulGary]

Packers placed another Rookie on IR, 6th round pick Center Jake Hanson.

They then signed WR Kalija Lipscomb to the Practice squad, who was released by the Chiefs last week. Lipscomb was considered one of the top UDFA WR's and the Chiefs payed him pretty well if I remember correctly. High Football IQ, but quite a bit to work on with his game. The Packers now have 4 WR's on the 16 man PS.

Chiefs gave him $110k to sign with them.

 

[tynimiller]

Believe I broke down Lipscomb as a favorite of my late rounders in draft discussions...I'll have to dig it up.

 

[swhitset]

Marino doesn't hold any records of significance anymore though.



Since entering the league in 2011 Newton is 28th out of 33 quarterbacks with at least 1,500 pass attempts.

There's no doubt he's a dangerous runner but will come nowhere close to making it to Canton as a quarterback.

I think a lot of people think it should be called the “Hall of Pretty Good Players“...lol.

 

[PikeBadger]

Packers placed another Rookie on IR, 6th round pick Center Jake Hanson.

They then signed WR Kalija Lipscomb to the Practice squad, who was released by the Chiefs last week. Lipscomb was considered one of the top UDFA WR's and the Chiefs payed him pretty well if I remember correctly. High Football IQ, but quite a bit to work on with his game. The Packers now have 4 WR's on the 16 man PS.

Why did the Chiefs cut him?