Ranking the Packer Improvements for 2024 season

[Heyjoe4]

Neither of you are wrong. No quarterback with only 1 season of play and half of it as a top QB should get paid like they are elite. However, it's all about the current market in a QB-driven league. If we don't pay him crazy money now then some other desperate team likely will. The Packers have to take a well-calculated gamble and hope that they are correct.

I agree with that. Love is gonna get what looks like $60 mil year on a 5 year contract. It will be the signing bonus and guaranteed money that will tie things up. Well, that are very likely tying things up. And with the way these contracts are structured, it's next to impossible to do an honest QB by QB comparison.

Logic and money don't mix in the NFL.

Caleb claims that Goff has won the Super Bowl and an NFCCG. I don't recall that.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

When did Goff win the SB and the NFCCG?

He won the NFCCG like 4/5 years ago.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Neither of you are wrong. No quarterback with only 1 season of play and half of it as a top QB should get paid like they are elite. However, it's all about the current market in a QB-driven league. If we don't pay him crazy money now then some other desperate team likely will. The Packers have to take a well-calculated gamble and hope that they are correct.

This is getting pretty discouraging, and I'm getting cynical again. I don't know if it's just sloppy reporting, but too many "knowledgeable sources" are still saying the two sides are not even close to a deal. If that's true, it's very disturbing.

I'm getting pretty pissed at somebody; just not exactly sure yet who it is.

 

[OldSchool101]

Maybe Love had some impact on Jacob's decision to come here, it certainly helped. It wasn't the only reason though. And you indicated there were players who came here because of Love.

A Winning culture led by a good QB is going to draw players be default, so
Jordan isn’t some singular draw for the league, he’s one of several Leaders who have impacted FA decisions though. Both players said so

I shall be respectful of your wishes Sir
I was so eager to tell you that Remark about “doing” and not “saying” was actual a famous writing and command by St Paul, which was neat coming from you! Faith without action is dead. So I shall take your advice and lead by action… its brilliant!

 

[OldSchool101]

This is getting pretty discouraging, and I'm getting cynical again. I don't know if it's just sloppy reporting, but too many "knowledgeable sources" are still saying the two sides are not even close to a deal. If that's true, it's very disturbing.

I'm getting pretty pissed at somebody; just not exactly sure yet who it is.

lol. I know it’s irritating. Although I was going to offer that a few days ago. If they hadn’t signed a deal it wasn’t over 1-2 mil a year. It’s likely 5+ or a substantial variance in % guaranteed etc.
just my opinion

Loved what PkrJones says about Love not wanting to injure in practice while a Massive deal is days away. Can you imagine if he blew his Knee out tomorrow how many Millions he’d lose?

My guess is Love isn’t expecting a long delay. They’re close now imo. He was also BIG smiling recently in interviews. That speaks to he’s heard some big time paycheck is coming. I’m happy for him he’s a good kid. You can’t fake a 1/4 Billion $$ Smile!!

 

[Thirteen Below]

I was so eager to tell you that Remark about “doing” and not “saying” was actual a famous writing and command by St Paul, which was neat coming from you!

That is so cool... I wonder if HeyJoe knew that in advance.

This turned into an interesting conversation....

 

[Heyjoe4]

He didn't state that Goff had a SB win. He stated that he had a SB, which is true. He played in the Super Bowl which is still more than Love can say (so far).

Thanks EG. Caleb wrote "Goff has a SB and NFC champ on his resume", which sounded a lot like he was the starting QB on a SB and NFC championship team. Did Goff win an NFCCG with the Rams to get to a SB? If that's the case then I was incorrect. I thought the Rams only got to the SB with Stafford. Maybe they did get there with Goff, I don't recall.

I still think Love is worth more than Goff. But now Goff is what, the 2nd or 3rd highest paid QB? Now that's ridiculous. But again, it's the bonus and guaranteed money that tell the story. The Packers and Love just need to get this done. It's gonna be a risk, a worthwhile risk, and the money is gonna be big.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That is so cool... I wonder if HeyJoe knew that in advance.

This turned into an interesting conversation....

I don't understand the reference re: "doing" and "saying" by St. Paul, but please remind me. The Bible is full of quotes we use everyday, atheist and believer alike. I love the Golden Rule, attributable to Jesus in the Bible. I don't think he was the first to say it, but hey, he was Jesus, divine or not. But it comes very close to a universal rule for living, again, for atheist and believer alike.

It's an example of good things in the Bible. There are many, and many of which I find comforting. (I may still be experiencing the trauma of being raised Catholic, including grades 1 through 4 "taught" by nuns armed with rulers..... Thankfully, I avoided the bad priests who destroyed so very many young lives.)

There is also a lot of stuff in the Bible about how to treat your slaves, homophobia, and misogyny - and the perfectly ok killing of kids if they sass parents back. So context is everything. To a reasonable extent though, a sports forum or any non-religious forum, is best if it sticks to a secular POV.

(For anyone interested in reading an honest accounting of Christianity in America, check out the short book by Sam Harris - "Letter to a Christian Nation.")

Yikes. I'm done, honestly. Is Love's contact done yet?

 

[Half Empty]

Did Goff win an NFCCG with the Rams to get to a SB? If that's the case then I was incorrect. I thought the Rams only got to the SB with Stafford. Maybe they did get there with Goff, I don't recall.

2018

 

[Heyjoe4]

2018

Thanks HE. I didn't remember that the Rams made it to a SB with Goff.

Anyway, as to Love's contract - FWIW I think Love is a much better QB than Goff, despite Caleb calling that "ridiculous". He might prefer Goff to Love, but as a Packer fan, I'll take Love over Goff, Lawrence, and a few other very well-paid QBs.

All that said, Goff has played a lot better in Detroit than I expected. Yeah the Lions are loaded with talent, but Goff has certainly done his part.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't understand the reference re: "doing" and "saying" by St. Paul, but please remind me. The Bible is full of quotes we use everyday, atheist and believer alike. I love the Golden Rule, attributable to Jesus in the Bible. I don't think he was the first to say it, but hey, he was Jesus, divine or not. But it comes very close to a universal rule for living, again, for atheist and believer alike.

It's an example of good things in the Bible. There are many, and many of which I find comforting. (I may still be experiencing the trauma of being raised Catholic, including grades 1 through 4 "taught" by nuns armed with rulers..... Thankfully, I avoided the bad priests who destroyed so very many young lives.)

There is also a lot of stuff in the Bible about how to treat your slaves, homophobia, and misogyny - and the perfectly ok killing of kids if they sass parents back. So context is everything. To a reasonable extent though, a sports forum or any non-religious forum, is best if it sticks to a secular POV.

(For anyone interested in reading an honest accounting of Christianity in America, check out the short book by Sam Harris - "Letter to a Christian Nation.")

Yikes. I'm done, honestly. Is Love's contact done yet?

I don’t think Loves quite there, but we all know he will be it’s really hashing out the details. You could even apply that to a contract offer.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.

As Tom Cruise said “Show me the Money”!
Another example is my new Employer.. I can’t get into specifics of their mantra or initialization for their Company motto because it’s probably online. But one initial “F” in it promotes they are “Family” oriented. An older guy I work with kinda laughed during a recent takeover in Ownership. They are a higher pressure Company (but do compensate well).
He says “you don’t have to tell me you’re family friendly… if you’re a Family friendly Company? I think us Employees will know that pretty quickly”. (Nicely said I thought)
Another words if you have to SAY it?
Then be worried.

Lead By Example. In this case let’s put out a contract offer that speaks words. Let Love meet its Standard.

 

[OldSchool101]

I other goings on. Javon Bullard has supplanted Anthony Johnson Jr early on opposite McKinney.

Jordan Morgan is playing on 2nd Team at RT and RG. I still think he’s our starting RG this season. Rhyan had better come out firing all 8-cylinders

Eric Wilson is being given every opportunity to play. Hes been 1st team next to Walker at LB. As I’ve posted when he joined the Packers, Wilson was what I’d call a “very productive” LB for Minnesota. He had one year that was probably what id call AN Honor Roll level at LB as a Starter
YES, He had to prove himself on ST first in GB, but he’s patiently waited his turn.

Wilson earned a respectable contract at 1yr $2.75mil. Which means for me they think he’s got starter potential at ILB. At minimum I think he’s a very good 3rd LB. In his final season on Rookie contract (2020) I thought he deserve at least Probowl alternate type recognition.

In 15 starts for the Vikings when he finally went Full Time?
122 Tackles
8 TFL
8 PD
1FF
2FR
9 QB hits
3 Sacks

Thats shows you how well rounded a LB he is. It’s rare to see that thorough, across the board type production imo.

After 2020, he got yanked around on multiple teams in 2021 and since. Get Wilson in a similar capacity in this D (even if it’s packages etc) and it wouldn’t surprise me if he beats out Cooper, at least early in. I don’t say that lightly as I’m well aware Edgerrin Cooper was the best LB in College last year.

2020

 

[OldSchool101]

At minimum. Eric Wilson is a mainstay on ST. He’s led the Packers on ST for both seasons here.
11 Tackles in 2023 and
13 Tackles in 2022
after being poached the the Saints Practice squad.

I really like Eric’s Veteran presence on such a young team. Entering his 8th
Season in the NFL.. On special teams, he posted 26 tackles, a forced fumble, a fumble recovery, a blocked punt and a blocked extra point. He also appeared in four postseason games with two starts, recording 13 tackles (nine solo), a QB hit and a special teams tackle. Personally, I think Wilson is ideal as our 3rd LB in this 4-3 Defense. Zimmer used him in that role and let him use his athleticism to his strength.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don’t think Loves quite there, but we all know he will be it’s really hashing out the details. You could even apply that to a contract offer.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works.

As Tom Cruise said “Show me the Money”!
Another example is my new Employer.. I can’t get into specifics of their mantra or initialization for their Company motto because it’s probably online. But one initial “F” in it promotes they are “Family” oriented. An older guy I work with kinda laughed during a recent takeover in Ownership. They are a higher pressure Company (but do compensate well).
He says “you don’t have to tell me you’re family friendly… if you’re a Family friendly Company? I think us Employees will know that pretty quickly”. (Nicely said I thought)
Another words if you have to SAY it?
Then be worried.

Lead By Example. In this case let’s put out a contract offer that speaks words. Let Love meet its Standard.

OK I was trying to figure out the St. Paul reference and what I may have written. Still confused, but NBD.

And I don't know what you're getting at with a reference to a company you apparently work for, and a line from a Tom Cruise movie..... That's confusing and also NBD I guess.

 

[El Guapo]

Yup, this thread has gotten confusing and off-track

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yup, this thread has gotten confusing and off-track

Thanks EG. Thought it might be my advancing years......

 

[OldSchool101]

OK I was trying to figure out the St. Paul reference and what I may have written. Still confused, but NBD.

And I don't know what you're getting at with a reference to a company you apparently work for, and a line from a Tom Cruise movie..... That's confusing and also NBD I guess.

What I meant is these are various forms of leading with action, not just words.
You were essentially saying you didn’t need an explanation as to the origination of the joy within me that might lead to having a good heart. That is very symbolic of leading with “actions” not words imo. In that passage Paul said ““so what good is it if I say to some poor beggar..”be well fed!” But do nothing to help them?””

Just put our sentiment into action and let the actions themselves speak those words. He mentioned that even Demon possessed people back then believed in God. But that in itself doesn’t infer they followed him. Believing in something or someone is not enough by itself and that’s a popular misconception we’re taught from the age of children. It’s the living out your trust “in action” for someone/something that displays our belief. We never really need to speak words to trust someone/something. We show our trust by our ACTION. We can tell our Spouses or Partners all day long how much we love them, but if we dont put that into action?
Expect a quick divorce!
Thats coming from experience I’m on marriage #2

 

[Heyjoe4]

What I meant is these are various forms of leading with action, not just words.
You were essentially saying you didn’t need an explanation as to the origination of the joy within me that might lead to having a good heart. That is very symbolic of leading with “actions” not words imo. In that passage Paul said ““so what good is it if I say to some poor beggar..”be well fed!” But do nothing to help them?””

Just put our sentiment into action and let the actions themselves speak those words. He mentioned that even Demon possessed people back then believed in God. But that in itself doesn’t infer they followed him. Believing in something or someone is not enough by itself and that’s a popular misconception we’re taught from the age of children. It’s the living out your trust “in action” for someone/something that displays our belief. We never really need to speak words to trust someone/something. We show our trust by our ACTION. We can tell our Spouses or Partners all day long how much we love them, but if we dont put that into action?
Expect a quick divorce!
Thats coming from experience I’m on marriage #2

I don't remember a lot of this and, to paraphrase EG, this thread has lost its thread. If you claim I said something, I'm sure I did.

You're a person of faith. I respect that. I just don't think that a sports forum is the place for it. I also believe very strongly that actions speaks louder than words. On that we agree 100%. If that's what St. Paul said, he was right.

(One other thing you may find interesting, maybe not, the words of Jesus are worth studying. So are the words of Marcus Aurelius, Eleanor Roosevelt, and others. In my opinion, all were mortal, not divine, men and woman whose words live on because of their power, utility, and simple kindness.)

And my point, not being a religious person, is that kindness is simply a good attribute in people (and too rare), regardless of what they believe.

OK Old School. Onward to Training Camp and to what I believe will be a terrific season for our Packers! (And EG et.al., sorry for the confusing detour.)

 

[Wraith09]

I have a very positive feeling about the state of the team and think we will be much better than most or all of the pundits are thinking. I am so optimistic for this season – more so than a very long time. Our hot streak down the stretch was not a fluke. Love is the real deal and the team was rallying behind him to become one of the best teams in the NFL. Beyond that, I think the team has gotten even better over the offseason.



Thinking about it, I came up with a bunch of reasons, but decided that it came down to 8 that would make a noticeable impact.



Below is my ranking of the reasons for the Packers being improved this season:



8. Running Game – I don’t think we have a RB better than Aaron Jones - but we have someone who is pretty darn close in Jacobs. The advantage for Jacobs is in age and reliability. Additionally, we have an energetic rookie in Lloyd who can provide some great reps and keep Jacobs fresh. Furthermore, AJ Dillion looks to be in the best shape of his career. Maybe he will still be what the Packers were hoping for. Late in the 4th, late in the season, when the defense is tired and sore from hitting a fast ball carrier weighing 10 or 30 lbs heavier than you, its going to have an effect.



7. LVN – I’m expecting a significant step up in his play. DE should be more suited to his game than OLB. He may be a year away from being a true every down impact player, but he should get some additional playing time and make some splash plays.



6. Defensive Line Interior - Between Wyatt, Brooks, Wooden, and Slayton one of them should take a step and be a stud next to Clark (I put them in order for likelihood). We went from 3 DL to needing 2 with the change in systems. The depth hasn’t been this good in a long time so Clark should be able to get some rest and maintain his high level play. Of the players listed, Wyatt has me the most excited. Seems he was really pouring it on the last season towards the end. He showed up for OTAs looking like he worked hard during the off season and the new defense should suit him better, I am looking for a breakout season for him.



5. Receiving Corps – So much talent that is still developing. A year of experience should be impactful. If they solved Watson’s hamstring issue, with our TEs both looking very promising, and between Reed and Wicks – one or both will elevate to a “#1 level” of performance.



4. Offensive Guard Upgrade - either Rhyan, Morgan, or ???. OLine – Should show significant improvement this season by improvement at the weakest link. Additionally, Walker now has a year of experience under his belt was playing very good towards the end of last season. Tom continues to get better each season and there is no reason to think that he has plateaued. Myers at C was playing better late in the season, he is in a contract year and now has some significant competition behind him – we should see his best - which might not be saying much. At LG Jenkins should be good once again.



3. Edgerrin Cooper – High energy aggression. Should be a great addition to the defense. Should be impactful early – known to be very instinctive and athletic. With Quay Walker, the Packers will have their most athletically gifted LBs in recent memory. Also have more invested in draft capital than we are used to seeing.



2. Xavier McKinney – Love to hear about his leadership on the field and in the locker room. Packers have lacked a real defensive leader for some time. I know Preston is a good leader, but not the ‘fire up’ leader we need on the field at times. We haven’t had great safety play in some time. We should be able to get a few more big plays from the secondary. Going from the safety position being a liability to making plays will have a huge overall affect on the defenses’ success.



1. Jeff Hafley DC – New system, new attitude, and new energy. The defense let the team down a few times late last season. Some of that was from the safety position, defensive confusion, and from strange play calling on defense. It was no coincidence that when MLF stated he was going to start spending more time working with the defense, that they started playing much better. Playing deep on 4th and short is a headscratcher. Playing prevent when time is running out and you have a small lead - just doesn’t make a lick of sense. Player feedback regarding Hafley has been very positive and you can see and hear the new attitude. Our defense should be much better.





Did I miss anything? Did I get them out of order? Or am I wrong? (LOL j/k). Let me know what you are thinking.

Starting with your #1, right. Some real head scratchers or teeth grinders. #2, I don't know, but picking the right players to sign isn't the Packers problem, it's the coaching and coordinating. #3, Favored the pick and general opinions were that he would go where the Packers picked him. He moves to the ball carrier, he doesn't wait for the ball to come to him. #4, I can't judge OL. Packers used to do a better job at drafting OL. I don't see a Packer type at OL any more. Crossed fingers. #5, no worries, better with experience. #6, DL? 4-3? #7? 4-3? No speed on ends unless they line up Cox or Enagbare. #8, Jones was my favorite player. Jacobs runs harder, but I don't know if he will be as effective as Jones. Lloyd has a similar running style to Jones, but it usually takes time for running backs to adapt to their knew teams. Maybe Lloyd will figure it out quickly. I don't hear or watch anything that says the Packers won't do well. Most talk is about contracts, but with camp more attention will be paid to play on the field. I prefer that the talking heads ignore the Packers. I liked their draft a lot with the exception of Hopper. I would have preferred Payton Wilson at the point. Hopper looks like a Ty Summer kind of pick. I agree with you. I think they have the potential to go far this year. The change on defense is the big question mark, but the status quo on the defense was not a winning strategy. I look for Cooper, Bullard, Williams and Oladapo to make an impact this year. They could be the difference.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't remember a lot of this and, to paraphrase EG, this thread has lost its thread. If you claim I said something, I'm sure I did.

You're a person of faith. I respect that. I just don't think that a sports forum is the place for it. I also believe very strongly that actions speaks louder than words. On that we agree 100%. If that's what St. Paul said, he was right.

(One other thing you may find interesting, maybe not, the words of Jesus are worth studying. So are the words of Marcus Aurelius, Eleanor Roosevelt, and others. In my opinion, all were mortal, not divine, men and woman whose words live on because of their power, utility, and simple kindness.)

And my point, not being a religious person, is that kindness is simply a good attribute in people (and too rare), regardless of what they believe.

OK Old School. Onward to Training Camp and to what I believe will be a terrific season for our Packers! (And EG et.al., sorry for the confusing detour.)

Well said. Kindness is in short supply. Nobody loses using that tool


Nice to have Jordan back practicing. Going to be a fun week (except for maybe QB4, J Eason?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well said. Kindness is in short supply. Nobody loses using that tool


Nice to have Jordan back practicing. Going to be a fun week (except for maybe QB4, J Eason?

Yeah the QB room will shrink to Love, Clifford and Pratt. Love should get right into the swing of things, albeit a lot richer, and Pratt and Clifford will duke it out for the #2 spot. Should be interesting. And the Packers still have a decent amount of cap. They might want to use it while they have it. Love's contract will be felt in the years to come.

Can unused cap be rolled forward?

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah the QB room will shrink to Love, Clifford and Pratt. Love should get right into the swing of things, albeit a lot richer, and Pratt and Clifford will duke it out for the #2 spot. Should be interesting. And the Packers still have a decent amount of cap. They might want to use it while they have it. Love's contract will be felt in the years to come.

Can unused cap be rolled forward?

Yes

I’m going to offer imo I think Clifford is the presumed #2. I say that because he’s a 2nd year backup. There’s a lot to swallow for a Rookie to begin with.

I’d say it’s the incumbents (Clifford) job to lose.

 

[OldSchool101]

In 2023 preseason Clifford was
#17 attempts per game (19.0)
#14 pass yards per game (131)
#3 in completion % (71.9)
#18 in QB rating (81.8)
#13 passing yards per attempt (tied)

This is among all QB’s including many starters. So it’s a big field.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes

I’m going to offer imo I think Clifford is the presumed #2. I say that because he’s a 2nd year backup. There’s a lot to swallow for a Rookie to begin with.

I’d say it’s the incumbents (Clifford) job to lose.

Yeah Pratt is really going to have to shine, and that will be hard. If he performs well in TC, he'll get more snaps in PS games. But Clifford is the presumptive #2.

 

[Heyjoe4]

In 2023 preseason Clifford was
#17 attempts per game (19.0)
#14 pass yards per game (131)
#3 in completion % (71.9)
#18 in QB rating (81.8)
#13 passing yards per attempt (tied)

This is among all QB’s including many starters. So it’s a big field.

I thought Clifford was a great pickup. He played as well as expected for a #2 QB. I look forward to what Pratt has got. His pre-draft publicity was pretty good.

And on a team this talented, a solid #2 is a must-have. Even if Love were to miss some games due to a manageable injury (meaning he would return in the same season) a good backup plays .500 ball until the starter returns. Hopefully that doesn't get tested.