WR corps

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not sure if this was discussed earlier but it really would've been really nice if we drafted a WR this year.

I think that was discussed, hard to remember.

 

[PackFan2]

Yes, it’s exceptionally weird to make a determination about an NFL player based on one play.

yup. totally. uh huh. everything else up based on his body of work and asked to step up as other WR vets went down don't matter. but hey good for you dantes.

 

[Dantés]

yup. totally. uh huh. everything else up based on his body of work and asked to step up as other WR vets went down don't matter. but hey good for you dantes.

Ok, so now you’re saying it’s his body of work, and not just one play, that tells you everything you need to know.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think that was discussed, hard to remember.

Lol, it’s only been discussed a few times (an hour) since April.

 

[Mondio]

Im not terribly impressed with MVS and his body awareness/control, but that isn’t to say he can’t have a big impact on this offense. He has a skill that many don’t and will never have. He has shown he’s working on the other parts to playing WR. I don’t think he’s a finished product yet. Maybe he never gets the back shoulder catch reliably, but I think he’s still going to be productive for us and open things up for others.

 

[PikeBadger]

Im not terribly impressed with MVS and his body awareness/control, but that isn’t to say he can’t have a big impact on this offense. He has a skill that many don’t and will never have. He has shown he’s working on the other parts to playing WR. I don’t think he’s a finished product yet. Maybe he never gets the back shoulder catch reliably, but I think he’s still going to be productive for us and open things up for others.

Your body awareness/control comment is spot on in my opinion. He also doesn’t seem to be a confident and instinctive athlete to me so I think he has a limited upside. I saw some of those exact same traits in Ridley the other night. He definitely has the danger skill though and fills a role that no one else on the roster can. He must be accounted for.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wonder what Love would cost us if Rodgers keeps playing through his whole rookie contract.

Most importantly the Packers wouldn't have been able to take advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal, something that is extremely valuable under the current CBA but conveniently ignored around here.

That being said, to project HOF QB’s from 2016 is a tad premature imo.

Do you honestly believe that any of Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Trubisky or Watson have a realistic chance to develop into HOFers?

I very much prefer we not take that approach to drafting and roster building. I prefer the Wolf, Thompson and Gutekunst way.

You understand that Gutekunst has a much different approach to building the roster than Thompson, don't you?

Under Thompson the Packers were annually amongst the league leaders in snaps played by rookies, an approach you claimed to be the smart way.

This year, the team doesn't get close to any out of their draft picks. But now you claim that to be the best approach.

So tell me, which one is it in your opinion???

Cmon man. Cam Newton and Matt Ryan may make the HOF. Andrew Luck (had he been healthy and wanted it) would have been up there too.

There's no way Newton comes anywhere close to making it to Canton, Ryan doesn't deserve to be inducted either.

It's true that Luck had a decent chance nut he was considered a generational talent, something that definitely doesn't apply to Love.

That one play is the determining factor? I don't really buy that logic. He also made a clutch pass on 3rd and 10 for a first down. What if that one play was all we really needed to see?

It's definitely odd to evaluate MVS based on a single play but boy did he look clueless on it.

 

[PikeBadger]

Most importantly the Packers wouldn't have been able to take advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal, something that is extremely valuable under the current CBA but conveniently ignored around here.



Do you honestly believe that any of Goff, Wentz, Lynch, Trubisky or Watson have a realistic chance to develop into HOFers?



You understand that Gutekunst has a much different approach to building the roster than Thompson, don't you?

Under Thompson the Packers were annually amongst the league leaders in snaps played by rookies, an approach you claimed to be the smart way.

This year, the team doesn't get close to any out of their draft picks. But now you claim that to be the best approach.

So tell me, which one is it in your opinion???



There's no way Newton comes anywhere close to making it to Canton, Ryan doesn't deserve to be inducted either.

It's true that Luck had a decent chance nut he was considered a generational talent, something that definitely doesn't apply to Love.



It's definitely odd to evaluate MVS based on a single play but boy did he look clueless on it.

I think that Gutekunst’s and Thompson’s draft philosophy is very similar. I didn’t realize that Packer rookies were among league leaders in snaps. I don’t recall that many rookies walking in and starting. We did seem to have an awful lot of injuries though over that stretch.

 

[GleefulGary]

I think that Gutekunst’s and Thompson’s draft philosophy is very similar. I didn’t realize that Packer rookies were among league leaders in snaps. I don’t recall that many rookies walking in and starting. We did seem to have an awful lot of injuries though over that stretch.

had to use rookies during Ted’s tenure bc he wouldn’t sign FA’s. Gute will. Big difference

 

[Dantés]

I don’t want to quote that big long post just to say this, but @captainWIMM I would say that Watson has a shot at a HOF career if he gets better coaching.

He’s 25, he’s thrown for 11,000 yards and a 77-32 TD to INT ratio.

 

[gopkrs]

Most importantly the Packers wouldn't have been able to take advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie deal, something that is extremely valuable under the current CBA but conveniently ignored around here.

Definitely most importantly to you but not to me and not to everyone. You did not even attempt to answer my tough question.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I hate coming into threads late....but here goes.

Ok, so now you’re saying it’s his body of work, and not just one play, that tells you everything you need to know.

I would like to expand upon what @PackFan2 said.

This is MVS' 3rd season and that back shoulder throw to me was a summation of what MVS is going to be as a pro receiver. Anybody with some body awareness and control would have made that catch look easy(it SHOULD be easy for a pro WR); and yet, MVS looked like he didn't know the ball was thrown, much less expect it to be where it was placed.

This essentially justifies why MVS had the hype he did coming out of the Draft, and yet was still only a 5th Round Pick. For MVS, it was his speed and height that was just enough for him to be competitive at South Florida, but I'll always put an asterisk that MVS transferred to South Florida from N.C. State after his sophomore year, which to me signifies that he wasn't developing as he should and dropped from the ACC to "lower competition" in the American.




Another thing I'd like to highlight is maybe we also aren't getting enough out of our WRs because of coaching? Remember we fired Alvis Whitted and hired Jason Vrable, who is a former Division 3 QB with no NFL playing experience. I wonder if it was his recommendation that ultimately led to Travis Fulgham being waived....who is now killing it with the Eagles; who's WR coach is Aaron Moorehead, a former NFL WR that won a Super Bowl with a Colts roster that had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

 

[Dantés]

I hate coming into threads late....but here goes.



I would like to expand upon what @PackFan2 said.

This is MVS' 3rd season and that back shoulder throw to me was a summation of what MVS is going to be as a pro receiver. Anybody with some body awareness and control would have made that catch look easy(it SHOULD be easy for a pro WR); and yet, MVS looked like he didn't know the ball was thrown, much less expect it to be where it was placed.

This essentially justifies why MVS had the hype he did coming out of the Draft, and yet was still only a 5th Round Pick. For MVS, it was his speed and height that was just enough for him to be competitive at South Florida, but I'll always put an asterisk that MVS transferred to South Florida from N.C. State after his sophomore year, which to me signifies that he wasn't developing as he should and dropped from the ACC to "lower competition" in the American.

Another thing I'd like to highlight is maybe we also aren't getting enough out of our WRs because of coaching? Remember we fired Alvis Whitted and hired Jason Vrable, who is a former Division 3 QB with no NFL playing experience. I wonder if it was his recommendation that ultimately led to Travis Fulgham being waived....who is now killing it with the Eagles; who's WR coach is Aaron Moorehead, a former NFL WR that won a Super Bowl with a Colts roster that had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne.

I'm not an MVS apologist. As a player with the ability to get downfield, he plays a role in the offense. I'd be fine if they found someone else for that role. But generally comments like that, about one play telling you all you need to know, are silly. And that play was not nearly as clean cut as people are describing. His arm was pinned by the defender at one point.

 

[PackFan2]

This is MVS' 3rd season and that back shoulder throw to me was a summation of what MVS is going to be as a pro receiver. Anybody with some body awareness and control would have made that catch look easy(it SHOULD be easy for a pro WR); and yet, MVS looked like he didn't know the ball was thrown, much less expect it to be where it was placed.

^couldnt have said it any better.
Packers vs Falcons (2020) @2nd Quarter 2:44 mark 2nd and 14. I disagree with Dantes that "And that play was not nearly as clean cut as people are describing. His arm was pinned by the defender at one point." Super Clean throw by ARod. MVS actually tried to one hand catch that.. and had his hand on the defenders shoulder.. I don't think its too much to expect a 3rd yr WR (5th round draft pick) to open their hips correctly and be able to have average/good back-shoulder catch (bread & butter). Thats what others are saying.. Lazard is an undrafted WR and 9 out of 10 times he would've caught it. Whatever the case maybe, Hope MVS and staff address it. I do apologize for being brazen on the take with MVS but that's just what frustrates me. Not sure if it was Louis Rid**** (a future GM IMO) & Brian Griese (EX-NFL QB) or just my local announcers but I think they said something to the effect that "That back shoulder throw should've been caught, especially by a veteran WR." Hence I cant wait to see what EQ has to offer.

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[PikeBadger]

had to use rookies during Ted’s tenure bc he wouldn’t sign FA’s. Gute will. Big difference

What is your definition of Free Agents?

 

[thequick12]

It's true that Luck had a decent chance but he was considered a generational talent, something that definitely doesn't apply to Love.

While it's true you can say Love did not come with the fanfare Andrew Luck did. And it's true he was not considered a generational talent by most experts during the pre draft process...that in no way prevents him from developing into a generational player

Can you honestly say you watch his tape from a purely physical standpoint and say to yourself oh yeah I see lots of nfl qbs make wow plays like that? I can't I see his good plays and I think I don't see anyone but the best of the best make those throws, Rodgers, mahomes, wilson

 

[thequick12]

^couldnt have said it any better.
Packers vs Falcons (2020) @2nd Quarter 2:44 mark 2nd and 14. I disagree with Dantes that "And that play was not nearly as clean cut as people are describing. His arm was pinned by the defender at one point." Super Clean throw by ARod. MVS actually tried to one hand catch that.. and had his hand on the defenders shoulder.. I don't think its too much to expect a 3rd yr WR (5th round draft pick) to open their hips correctly and be able to have average/good back-shoulder catch (bread & butter). Thats what others are saying.. Lazard is an undrafted WR and 9 out of 10 times he would've caught it. Whatever the case maybe, Hope MVS and staff address it. I do apologize for being brazen on the take with MVS but that's just what frustrates me. Not sure if it was Louis Rid**** (a future GM IMO) & Brian Griese (EX-NFL QB) or just my local announcers but I think they said something to the effect that "That back shoulder throw should've been caught, especially by a veteran WR." Hence I cant wait to see what EQ has to offer.

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Yeah after that play my reaction was, come on you gotta be kidding me. I'd go a step further and say a nfl #3 wr needs to make that play. If mvs made those plays, the dropped td in the end zone vs mn. he'd be a top flight #3

I'm stoked to see eq play as well. I think he makes that play and he's for sure a much more polished wr. He should get a bunch of snaps in the slot when he returns.

If by the end of the year mlf is using 4 wrs and they are Adams, Lazard, mvs, and eq I think that bodes very well for the playoff run

 

[swhitset]

I have no idea why EQ has been anointed to such a high level. So far the only thing he has proven is that he can’t get on the field two years in a row.

 

[PackFan2]

I have no idea why EQ has been anointed to such a high level. So far the only thing he has proven is that he can’t get on the field two years in a row.

I'm not anointing him anything. I just simply want to see him play.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think MVS has the higher ceiling, but EQ has the higher floor. That's what we're excited about. EQ played against better competition, and to me has a better grasp of the game mentally.

 

[swhitset]

I think MVS has the higher ceiling, but EQ has the higher floor. That's what we're excited about. EQ played against better competition, and to me has a better grasp of the game mentally.

That’s just it.... he has hardly played at all. I agree with Packfan2 above... I’d like to see him play, but I have no idea how you have concluded any of this based on the little bit he played 2 years ago.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That’s just it.... he has hardly played at all. I agree with Packfan2 above... I’d like to see him play, but I have no idea how you have concluded any of this based on the little bit he played 2 years ago.

I think this is the trap that fans fall into, myself included. They see a guy, watch some highlight reels and then hope/assume he is going to be the next great player for their team. However, at some point you just have to be honest with yourself and say "ok, given where this guy was drafted, how little he has played and even when he did play, it was a mix of good and bad, maybe I should lower my expectations on him? WR seems to be one of those positions where it is really easy to get big eyed and have unrealistically raised expectations. Part of that might be the position and I think in regards to the Packers, some of it has to do with the guy throwing them the ball making them look better than they actually are. This year I see that with MVS. Rodgers has in most part delivered him the ball right where it has to be and it seems like it has been a 50/50 proposition on MVS catching it.

 

[tynimiller]

Anyone somewhat regular here knows I believed EQ would and should have played into possibly our #3...that was however before this latest injury. I have zero clue what to expect at this point once back. I do know I'd put his intelligence against nearly anyone in our locker room...that however doesn't equal high output - time will tell.

I think it is time folks stop blasting MVS for what he isn't and start embracing the WR he is. The dude can do and does do things no other receiver on our roster can do (Adams included). He is to me, the PERFECT #3 type guy to have and to have around a long time. Some games he will blow defenses open, put up nearly 200 yards and 2 tds while averaging 35+ yards a catch - then the next game the other team makes sure he doesn't blow the top, he catches one ball on two targets for 12 yards....

Expect him to be a teams primary or surefire #2, you'll be disappointed at least half the time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don’t want to quote that big long post just to say this, but @captainWIMM I would say that Watson has a shot at a HOF career if he gets better coaching.

He’s 25, he’s thrown for 11,000 yards and a 77-32 TD to INT ratio.

I agree Watson might have a chance on putting together a HOF résumé but I tend to believe that in the end he won't come close to making it.

Definitely most importantly to you but not to me and not to everyone. You did not even attempt to answer my tough question.

It's pretty obvious that you don't have a clue about the advantage of having a starting quarterback on a rookie contract because you don't understand the details on how the salary cap works.

To answer your question, Love would cost way too much money if it takes until his fifth year in the league to be a first year starter.

And that play was not nearly as clean cut as people are describing. His arm was pinned by the defender at one point.

In my opinion that play proved that it's pretty obvious MVS has no clue on how to catch a back shoulder throw.

What is your definition of Free Agents?

Any player with four or more accrued seasons and an expired contract, free to negotiate and sign with any team.

While it's true you can say Love did not come with the fanfare Andrew Luck did. And it's true he was not considered a generational talent by most experts during the pre draft process...that in no way prevents him from developing into a generational player

Once again, it's possible Love develops into another HOF quarterback for the Packers but it's not likely.

Can you honestly say you watch his tape from a purely physical standpoint and say to yourself oh yeah I see lots of nfl qbs make wow plays like that? I can't I see his good plays and I think I don't see anyone but the best of the best make those throws, Rodgers, mahomes, wilson

Every quarterback drafted in the first round has the talent to make impressive throws. That doesn't automatically result in them being able to be effective at the pro level.

Love throwing more interceptions than any other quarterback in the FBS last season while facing inferior opponents is definitely a reason for concern.

 

[Dantés]

I agree Watson might have a chance on putting together a HOF résumé but I tend to believe that in the end he won't come close to making it.

In my opinion that play proved that it's pretty obvious MVS has no clue on how to catch a back shoulder throw.

If we're betting on virtually any 25 year old player making the HOF, the smart money is always going to be on "no." Because it's just a really hard thing to do. But Watson has a shot.

In my opinion, MVS is probably not ever going to be a back shoulder weapon. But I'll just keep reiterating that this notion that one play proves anything makes very little sense.