The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Pokerbrat2000]

Oh. That’s noble, then I’m sorry I interfered. Carry on

I’m not sure the Coaching staff looks at it like that. Rodgers deserves the respect as our QB1 and we paid him accordingly to be that QB1. I think they check with the Physician ti ensure Aaron’s safety isn’t compromised. The Coaching Staff surely asks Aaron if he feels good enough to play.

Short of losing his thumb to amputation, Aaron Rodgers didn’t want to find out if Jordan could compete and take over and start winning games. What do we think the end result would be IF in the slightest chance Jordan comes in and wins a string of games with fantastic play? Would that help Aaron’s long term cause or hurt it?

Wish they would have benched Rodgers and played Love, to see what he could do. Those last 5 games ended up being very meaningless and left the Packers with a player that they still didn't have a lot of real game info on.

However, I do acknowledge that Rodgers was the better option, if they wanted to win. Even if he wasn't, I can only guess the blow back from him and the media had they benched him.

 

[Mondio]

kept hearing they were sick of Rodgers and wanting to move, they wouldn't have cared what Rodgers thought or felt sitting and letting Love play. Keep hearing players were sick of Rodgers and he's a terrible leader, think they would have cared?

If they wanted to move on, they easily could have.

 

[OldSchool101]

kept hearing they were sick of Rodgers and wanting to move, they wouldn't have cared what Rodgers thought or felt sitting and letting Love play. Keep hearing players were sick of Rodgers and he's a terrible leader, think they would have cared?

If they wanted to move on, they easily could have.

I suppose some have said that. I don’t think he’s a “terrible leader”
I more just think Rodgers didn’t have a full commitment level anymore and there was some friction over a few years that got that going. I obviously see the sarcastic nature of the post, but the reality is the situation with Aaron was delicate. He was upset and Green Bay was trying to accommodate him as best possible, which they should do he was still our guy. In reality, The difference in QB play wouldn’t be so great between an old HOF level QB (who’s got an injury he can work through) and a Green Pea who is healthy but would lack Rodger’s mastery of the game.

Btw. I Never wanted Aaron to leave. I thought he could play here until he was 42-43 years old (going back 5 years in time) he’s obviously in great shape. However we all saw things get a little ugly internally and I still don’t believe Aaron has let go of his grudges. Hence him ignoring Brian on a continuum and that’s not very Professional at all. I thought Brian handled that quite well, he never attacked Aaron or did anything but try to protect Aaron in some respects (when pounded continually by the media on that topic) Gutey stayed very professional and that displayed wisdom and a lot of self control.

Winning would’ve fixed some hurts. But once Aaron lost against Detroit at Lambeau, these things had to be addressed and you can’t address grievances when someone ignores you altogether. Aaron’s silence was his decision on his future imo. He’s got that right, but we have our right to move on also.

 

[BrokenArrow]

As a side note, Rodgers was surrounded by a ton of offensive talent up until 2017. He wasn't ever since. Gutekunst doesn't deserve any credit for Thompson providing enough pass catchers before he took over as the team's general manager though.

Once again, Gute surrounded him with enough talent to win 13 games in 3 straight seasons. If the offensive talent around him was so much better before that, why was he never able to come close to that at any other point in his career? BTW, that's a rhetorical question. I don't actually expect an honest answer from you, but knock yourself out.

 

[BrokenArrow]

As mentioned above, Rodgers wasn't the best player in the world last season but he was during the two preceding 2022.

Yet he still managed to find creative ways to **** away HFA two years in a row.

 

[BrokenArrow]

It's beyond ridiculous to suggest Rodgers wasn't affected by a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

Well at least you admit Rodgers is a liar, if nothing else. When asked about the injury back in late November, he said, ""It doesn't make a difference. You saw the tape on my thumb. Didn't make a difference."

 

[OldSchool101]

This is going to be strange for me this year. This will be the first time in 30 years we haven't had a quarterback who is arguably the best in the NFL, or at least top three or five. I barely remember what it's like not having a HOF quarterback, unless it's like the gory years. What are we supposed to do, hope that Love pulls off a Trent Dilfer?

My bigger concern than Jordan Love is Joe Barry. I’m not convinced he has what it takes to get our Defense to an appropriate level of play. I had high hopes for him, but that is waning after watching us get humiliated on the ground last season.

I don’t believe that even Aaron could overcome our current Defensive woes much less a 1st Year starting QB. Nothing good happens if we can’t crack the top 10 on the Defensive side. If Joe Barry doesn’t improve this Defense markedly I’d like to see us go after Jim Leonhard..again

 

[Schultz]

Well at least you admit Rodgers is a liar, if nothing else. When asked about the injury back in late November, he said, ""It doesn't make a difference. You saw the tape on my thumb. Didn't make a difference."

Valid points on your first 2 posts in the string but here he is in a no-win situation. If he says it is effecting his play you get either " AR making excuses" or AR puts his ego ahead of the team while playing injured". IMO his answer was the only possible answer.

 

[Mondio]

My bigger concern than Jordan Love is Joe Barry. I’m not convinced he has what it takes to get our Defense to an appropriate level of play. I had high hopes for him, but that is waning after watching us get humiliated on the ground last season.

I don’t believe that even Aaron could overcome our current Defensive woes much less a 1st Year starting QB. Nothing good happens if we can’t crack the top 10 on the Defensive side. If Joe Barry doesn’t improve this Defense markedly I’d like to see us go after Jim Leonhard..again

yes, I keep saying I think we have the players to have a defense and special teams now finally that with just mediocre QB play and we have the RB's to be effective we "could" be a playoff team if he can just limit turnovers.

Yet Barry does less with more so who knows. I'm not expecting playoffs, there's a learning curve for both QB and young WR's when it's just one of those positions, we have all of them in the young and learning phase even if Love is entering year 4* for covid year. There will be lumps along the way, can't avoid them.

 

[tynimiller]

Valid points on your first 2 posts in the string but here he is in a no-win situation. If he says it is effecting his play you get either " AR making excuses" or AR puts his ego ahead of the team while playing injured". IMO his answer was the only possible answer.

Everyone knows I'm anything but a Rodgers' apologist but this is spot on.

Everyone needs to just accept a few things:

-Poker will forever want a WR with our first pick in every draft from here till eternity

and

-some folks just cannot help but be way too far on either extreme of the Rodgers "argument" and both extremes are wrong IMO.

 

[OldSchool101]

Everyone needs to just accept a few things:

-Poker will forever want a WR with our first pick in every draft from here till eternity

and

-some folks just cannot help but be way too far on either extreme of the Rodgers "argument" and both extremes are wrong IMO.

There will be libations in the streets when we draft a WR in Round 1. Old folks homes will be full of Seniors juking as if they were AJ Dillon and Desmond Howard post TD!

 

[milani]

Oh, I have no problem with moving on. I figured 2021 was our last chance to see a Super Bowl, and once again the 49ers ended our season. I hated to see those two #1 seeds wasted, especially under the new format, where only the #1 gets a bye.



TWO Super Bowl rings.

Yes. He had one with the Bears and one with us.

 

[mradtke66]

There will be libations in the streets when we draft a WR in Round 1. Old folks homes will be full of Seniors juking as if they were AJ Dillon and Desmond Howard post TD!

Joking aside, I think the likelyhood is low. In general, WRs aren't worth 1s except in a rare cases. And those rare cases are rare, such that only 1 or 2 are in each draft.

Honestly not unlike MLB types. If you're going to take them 1, they have to be complete players able to play all three downs and cover running backs. Otherwise, a 2 down thumper is available in rounds 2, 3, 4.

I'm not sure what the equivalent checklist is for WRs--athletically gifted, complete route tree, big, fast, able to play all three WR positions, and able to do it on day one?

 

[OldSchool101]

Joking aside, I think the likelyhood is low. In general, WRs aren't worth 1s except in a rare cases. And those rare cases are rare, such that only 1 or 2 are in each draft.

I'm not sure what the equivalent checklist is for WRs--athletically gifted, complete route tree, big, fast, able to play all three WR positions, and able to do it on day one?

I agree with some of that. However there’s been plenty of Day 1 WR’s that have been drafted in recent years that are worth their Draft placing in Gold.

Let’s face it. Gutenkunst just favors Defensive players more in that Day1 sector. Unfortunately that strategy has not paid off (yet). How many top #8 Defenses have we produced in the last decade?

 

[mradtke66]

I agree with some of that. However there’s been plenty of Day 1 WR’s that have been drafted in recent years that are worth their Draft placing in Gold.

Many have been drafted, but how many got re-signed a second contract with the team that drafted them? Not that it's a perfect metric, but I think it's a better one, in particular for earlier picks.

The MLB/ILB argument taken a step further, I hear the Ravens are pretty meh on Patrick Queen. Just because they were taken early doesn't mean they were worth it.

I am of the opinion that 1s should mostly be reserved for game changer positions. QBs, Pass Rushers, CBs, and certain LTs. If you're not one of those, you need to be special to be worth the selection. For off-the-ball Backers, as I said before, 3 down player able to stuff the run and cover elite running backs. The other positions, I don't have that line in the sand. It's there, but I struggle to articulate it.

 

[rmontro]

My bigger concern than Jordan Love is Joe Barry. I’m not convinced he has what it takes to get our Defense to an appropriate level of play. I had high hopes for him, but that is waning after watching us get humiliated on the ground last season.

Oh well, that's a whole thread to itself (and I'm sure there's a "Fire Joe Barry" thread floating around here somewhere, not too far down). Yeah, if we're going to start winning a new way, we've got to get that defense buttoned down at least. It would only be about 12 years too late.

Yes. He had one with the Bears and one with us.

I was going to say that I thought I heard that McMahon sold his Packer Super Bowl ring, but I couldn't find verification for it, so I won't But this article points out that not only did he finish his career as a Packer, he said it was the best organization he ever played for.

But when the '96 team went to the White House, he wore his Bears jersey. Because his '85 Bears team got overlooked when the Challenger blew up.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...n-i-played-for-bears-are-where-qbs-go-to-die/

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bears/why-jim-mcmahon-wore-bears-jersey-packers-white-house-visit

 

[AmishMafia]

Only 1 SB champion in the last 20 years has boasted the top WR (by receptions). Any guesses? Kupp in 21' for LAR.

Point being, there may be a low correlation between having a great WR and winning SBs.

Okay, that was a cheesy analysis, but it was easy. Probably should expand to top 5 WR on SB winner. Then do that for top 5 qb, pass rusher, RB, and CB. Probably inconclusive. It generally takes a great defense and the defense can't have any weak links, not necessarily a superstar.

 

[OldSchool101]

Many have been drafted, but how many got re-signed a second contract with the team that drafted them? Not that it's a perfect metric, but I think it's a better one, in particular for earlier picks.

The MLB/ILB argument taken a step further, I hear the Ravens are pretty meh on Patrick Queen. Just because they were taken early doesn't mean they were worth it.

I am of the opinion that 1s should mostly be reserved for game changer positions. QBs, Pass Rushers, CBs, and certain LTs. If you're not one of those, you need to be special to be worth the selection. For off-the-ball Backers, as I said before, 3 down player able to stuff the run and cover elite running backs. The other positions, I don't have that line in the sand. It's there, but I struggle to articulate it.

I’m actually in agreement in iLB and RB. Those are positions you can often wait until Later Day2-Day3 area and still get a very good one. Look at Dalvin Cook and Aaron Jones as a recent example. They are very comparable guys.. 3 Rounds apart

Although other positions fluctuate.m in importance in value. Lately it’s been WR and you can see it in the contract size $$.

As far as The Packers specifically. It just so happens we’ve now drafted 6 WR’s in 2 consecutive drafts. So the point is probably mute, just based on that group and our typical draft strategy it’s unlikely we go WR in Day1. It’s like betting on a pair of Horses at the Kentucky Derby that are 30/1 odds to Win and Place.

We already have a great feel for Watson and Doubs and it’s highly likely Reed is at least an average WR3-4 That leaves us needing at least 1WR from the group of Wicks, Toure and Dubose to rise. We haven’t even spoke of UDFA or peeling one off another teams PS or bringing in a veteran from the bargain bin. I like our chances of this group giving Jordan lots of options.

We also bought ourselves a pair of upgrades at TE who can both catch pretty well. So there’s 2 Pseudo WR’s also

 

[Sunshinepacker]

kept hearing they were sick of Rodgers and wanting to move, they wouldn't have cared what Rodgers thought or felt sitting and letting Love play. Keep hearing players were sick of Rodgers and he's a terrible leader, think they would have cared?

If they wanted to move on, they easily could have.

Where did you hear he was a terrible leader? He was supposedly very supportive of Love and i don’t recall any players criticizing his leadership. Not saying you’re wrong, just asking for those articles cause i missed ‘em.

 

[Schultz]

I agree with some of that. However there’s been plenty of Day 1 WR’s that have been drafted in recent years that are worth their Draft placing in Gold.

Let’s face it. Gutenkunst just favors Defensive players more in that Day1 sector. Unfortunately that strategy has not paid off (yet). How many top #8 Defenses have we produced in the last decade?

To your 1st point, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase. To your 2nd point IMO Gute favors certain positions in that Day 1 sector and I believe the top 2 just happen to be CB & Edge.

 

[AmishMafia]

Where did you hear he was a terrible leader? He was supposedly very supportive of Love and i don’t recall any players criticizing his leadership. Not saying you’re wrong, just asking for those articles cause i missed ‘em.

He's probably talking about me. It's personal observations. Scowling at the sidelines while on the field; throwing teammates under the bus; hands on hips if a play fails;
general body language not as bad as Jay cutler, but not good either. Standing or sitting by himself when we are on defense rather than going over stuff with WRs or the talking to OC. Maybe more obvious in the stadium, but it is a huge contrast to other QBs.

 

[mradtke66]

To your 1st point, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase. To your 2nd point IMO Gute favors certain positions in that Day 1 sector and I believe the top 2 just happen to be CB & Edge.

Agreed there are some worth a 1. But they are stupid rare.

A borderline pro-bowl DE/OLB that can get 8-10 sacks and is OK against the run is more valuable than any WR, unless he’s an All-Pro.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Valid points on your first 2 posts in the string but here he is in a no-win situation. If he says it is effecting his play you get either " AR making excuses" or AR puts his ego ahead of the team while playing injured". IMO his answer was the only possible answer.

It's actually not the only possible answer. He could have said something like, "It would be unrealistic to say it has no effect on some of those throws, but as long Matt believes my experience gives us the best chance to make the playoffs, I'm going to give it my best."

That would be neither an excuse, nor a lie.

 

[Mondio]

Where did you hear he was a terrible leader? He was supposedly very supportive of Love and i don’t recall any players criticizing his leadership. Not saying you’re wrong, just asking for those articles cause i missed ‘em.

I don't think he is, but it's a sentiment that's been put forth on this board regularly for a while, even before you came back Amish

 

[OldSchool101]

To your 1st point, Justin Jefferson and Jamar Chase. To your 2nd point IMO Gute favors certain positions in that Day 1 sector and I believe the top 2 just happen to be CB & Edge.

Yep. and then other Defensive option such as DT, S, LB. His value is clearly Defensive in Round 1
over Offense
OC, OG, OT, TE, RB

I graded his and Ted’s drafts as a whole since Rodgers tenure (a few years ago) on a points scale (using Calculator Soup to plug selections)
It was like 2:1 leaning Defense and then I realized I had done the math wrong it was more like 2.5:1 Defense. It was before Love if I recall, but we’ve since went similar mode so it’s probably 20 years deep of information.