I remember this place.

[weeds]

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[weeds]

Things look a little different these days.

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[AmishMafia]

Crazy!

 

[Poppa San]

Things look a little different these days.

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See the two houses two blocks to the right of the arena? Would be west of Oneida street now. The one on the right in this picture was my mom's brother's house. He and his wife built it in the mid 50's. Church next door bought it in the 70's tore it down and now their playground sits where the kitchen was.

 

[weeds]

...and now there's this. For what it's worth, I think the Red Lobster is still there for all of you Reggie White fans ... but the strip mall where Sara's store was is gone.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x8802fa4ed492dab5%3A0xe064f1ce9097e45c!3m1!7e164!15sCgIgAQ&hl=en&viewerState=ga&cr=ll_a7

 

[milani]

See the two houses two blocks to the right of the arena? Would be west of Oneida street now. The one on the right in this picture was my mom's brother's house. He and his wife built it in the mid 50's. Church next door bought it in the 70's tore it down and now their playground sits where the kitchen was.

Wonderful story! All the more why you are respected now.

 

[Poppa San]

...and now there's this. For what it's worth, I think the Red Lobster is still there for all of you Reggie White fans ... but the strip mall where Sara's store was is gone.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?pb=!1s0x8802fa4ed492dab5%3A0xe064f1ce9097e45c!3m1!7e164!15sCgIgAQ&hl=en&viewerState=ga&cr=ll_a7

Red Lobster is still there right next to Chunkie cheese.

 

[milani]

Red Lobster is still there right next to Chunkie cheese.

I go there after a game. Fun after a victory.

 

[Thirteen Below]

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What year was this? I might be in that photograph.

 

[weeds]

What year was this? I might be in that photograph.

I'm guessing here ... early to mid 90's?. The Hutson center was built In '94. That little administrative building in the north front ... I believe they removed the green corrugated sheet metal in the mid to late 80s? Poppa? Can you help on this one?

 

[OldSchool101]

Morning @weeds. Great photo! I looked it up, the training center was dedicated in 1994. It’s funny as we age we can almost look at a photograph and tell by its quality, coloring etc. the approximate age. I would’ve guessed 1990 ish give or take, but obviously I was wrong. My guess is closer to later 90’s early 00’s in that ‘97-02 area. IMO Regis and Kathy was in full swing. I’d still like to phone a friend as it is $128K on the line. I’ll choose help from a Lambeau lifer @Poppa San

 

[Poppa San]

I'm guessing here ... early to mid 90's?. The Hutson center was built In '94. That little administrative building in the north front ... I believe they removed the green corrugated sheet metal in the mid to late 80s? Poppa? Can you help on this one?

From Grok AI after prodding it and correcting incorrect assessments with more data:
"Date Range Confirmation
The orientation and corrected identification of structures align with our previous findings:

• Don Hutson Center (1994): Present, so the photo is from 1994 or later.
• Ray Nitschke Field (1997): Not present, with buildings or undeveloped land still on the site east of the Don Hutson Center (toward the top of the image), so the photo is from before 1997.
• Resch Center (2002): Not present, so the photo is from before 2002.
• Lambeau Field Renovations (2001–2003): The stadium lacks the Atrium and other modern features, so the photo is from before 2001.

This keeps our date range at 1994 to 1996:

• The Don Hutson Center sets the lower bound at 1994.
• The absence of Ray Nitschke Field sets the upper bound at 1996 (before its construction in 1997)."

If so this is early in the season as the trees show only green. I'd bet my daughter's dowry on home opener '95 showing off the new luxury boxes installed for that season or my wife's pin money on the following year's home opener.

 

[Shaggy]

It still amazes me how places over time can change. Buildings torn down, roads redone. I love looking at old pics and seeing what's different now from when it was taken. Glad you guys have these memories! Awesome post @weeds

 

[Poppa San]

I'm surprised none of the younglings here asked me what pin money was. Unless they were fortunate enough to discover some during their sinful youth.

 

[Voyageur]

I love those old pictures of the stadium. It reminds me of when they opened it for the first game. It was September 1957. Miss America was there. So was Richard Nixon who dedicated the stadium at halftime. A sellout crowd, over 32,000. We actually beat the Bears; I think it was 21-17 or 21-14. Can't remember exactly. I'm trying to remember the weather. I think it was cold and rainy. Miss America was wearing a fur coat if I recall. I think she had a tarp over her on the sidelines. I was 16 at the time, I wanted her out there in a bathing suit darn it! That first season we had some cold games out there. The crowds weren't too dense either, until Lombardi turned things around. Gawd! As a Packer fan in those days, we really had to love our team to maintain our season tickets and actually attend games. There were times we could have all huddled together in a half a dozen phone booths and had elbow room!

I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. That first year, sitting inside New City Stadium was a treat after sitting on the wooden bleachers often covered in ice seasons before. I think I knew I was a real Packer fan when I was about 8 years old, and when my Dad wouldn't take me to a game where it was so cold that he decided we'd stay at home instead. It was about zero outside, we lived 6 hours away from Green Bay, and it was snowing like a banshee outside, with roads being closed across Highway 29. My Dad knew, because starting on Saturday evening, he was calling the State Highway Patrol every couple of hours to see how the road conditions were. He was upset with himself because we didn't leave on Saturday morning, or even Friday evening and stay in a motel. He was obsessed, just like me. Then I found out the game was going to be on TV. The old Dumont network I believe. I don't remember the announcer. I think there was just one. Not sure. That was on Sunday morning, just before going to Church. Mass was at 11:00 AM, and I kept insisting my dad should make sure he had his wristwatch and pocket watch to make sure we weren't going to be late getting home to watch the game. I think it started at 2 PM in those days.

It was okay. I drank hot chocolate and enjoyed it. But, when it was over, I told my dad that we had to leave earlier for games because I didn't like not being there. It was rough on him at that time. Over six hours driving to Green Bay. We'd leave at around 4:00 AM. We'd always stop at the Abbey Cafe in Abbotsford, WI for breakfast, then finish the trip. After the game, we'd be off, on that long drive. We'd get home about 10 or 11 PM. My mom always had a dinner ready for us, just heat it up a bit in the oven which she had already heated. I'd go to bed with a full stomach, and tales to tell the following morning at school about how I wanted to be just like the players I saw out there.

Something surprising happened back in the early 80s, in New Braunfels, TX. My wife was offered a job by a company called Packers Welding handling the front office, including personnel. Their colors were green and gold. She ended up taking the job, and came home and laughed and said, "Guess who I met today?" I said I did have a clue. That's when she told me she was working for Ed Smith, owner of the company, who played with the Packers in 1948 and early 1949 before ending up elsewhere. I'd seen the guy play in GB. He suffered an injury in training camp his rookie year, and he was never the same as he was before it. I sat around with him a lot of evenings after that talking football. His most memorable time in life, beyond his wife and family, was the opportunity of playing in Green Bay. He told me that if he wasn't a born and bred Texan, he would have settled in Green Bay permanently.

Ed died some years back. Great guy. I wish it would have worked out better for him in Green Bay. From what I've been told by others, he could have been one darned good player if not for the injury.

Sorry! Long post.

 

[milani]

I love those old pictures of the stadium. It reminds me of when they opened it for the first game. It was September 1957. Miss America was there. So was Richard Nixon who dedicated the stadium at halftime. A sellout crowd, over 32,000. We actually beat the Bears; I think it was 21-17 or 21-14. Can't remember exactly. I'm trying to remember the weather. I think it was cold and rainy. Miss America was wearing a fur coat if I recall. I think she had a tarp over her on the sidelines. I was 16 at the time, I wanted her out there in a bathing suit darn it! That first season we had some cold games out there. The crowds weren't too dense either, until Lombardi turned things around. Gawd! As a Packer fan in those days, we really had to love our team to maintain our season tickets and actually attend games. There were times we could have all huddled together in a half a dozen phone booths and had elbow room!

I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. That first year, sitting inside New City Stadium was a treat after sitting on the wooden bleachers often covered in ice seasons before. I think I knew I was a real Packer fan when I was about 8 years old, and when my Dad wouldn't take me to a game where it was so cold that he decided we'd stay at home instead. It was about zero outside, we lived 6 hours away from Green Bay, and it was snowing like a banshee outside, with roads being closed across Highway 29. My Dad knew, because starting on Saturday evening, he was calling the State Highway Patrol every couple of hours to see how the road conditions were. He was upset with himself because we didn't leave on Saturday morning, or even Friday evening and stay in a motel. He was obsessed, just like me. Then I found out the game was going to be on TV. The old Dumont network I believe. I don't remember the announcer. I think there was just one. Not sure. That was on Sunday morning, just before going to Church. Mass was at 11:00 AM, and I kept insisting my dad should make sure he had his wristwatch and pocket watch to make sure we weren't going to be late getting home to watch the game. I think it started at 2 PM in those days.

It was okay. I drank hot chocolate and enjoyed it. But, when it was over, I told my dad that we had to leave earlier for games because I didn't like not being there. It was rough on him at that time. Over six hours driving to Green Bay. We'd leave at around 4:00 AM. We'd always stop at the Abbey Cafe in Abbotsford, WI for breakfast, then finish the trip. After the game, we'd be off, on that long drive. We'd get home about 10 or 11 PM. My mom always had a dinner ready for us, just heat it up a bit in the oven which she had already heated. I'd go to bed with a full stomach, and tales to tell the following morning at school about how I wanted to be just like the players I saw out there.

Something surprising happened back in the early 80s, in New Braunfels, TX. My wife was offered a job by a company called Packers Welding handling the front office, including personnel. Their colors were green and gold. She ended up taking the job, and came home and laughed and said, "Guess who I met today?" I said I did have a clue. That's when she told me she was working for Ed Smith, owner of the company, who played with the Packers in 1948 and early 1949 before ending up elsewhere. I'd seen the guy play in GB. He suffered an injury in training camp his rookie year, and he was never the same as he was before it. I sat around with him a lot of evenings after that talking football. His most memorable time in life, beyond his wife and family, was the opportunity of playing in Green Bay. He told me that if he wasn't a born and bred Texan, he would have settled in Green Bay permanently.

Ed died some years back. Great guy. I wish it would have worked out better for him in Green Bay. From what I've been told by others, he could have been one darned good player if not for the injury.

Sorry! Long post.

Great story. You had terrific parents. Speaking of New Braunfels, I went to a tennis camp there when I was young sponsored by pro player, John Newcombe. Quite a contrast there in weather compared to the Midwest in the month of February.

 

[Voyageur]

Great story. You had terrific parents. Speaking of New Braunfels, I went to a tennis camp there when I was young sponsored by pro player, John Newcombe. Quite a contrast there in weather compared to the Midwest in the month of February.

Back in 1982 or 1983, can't remember which year, I was hired by a company to help move them from Chicago to New Braunfels. The President of this well-known company was the one who orchestrated the move. He had an ulterior motive. He was involved in the Newcombe project in the late 60s, in New Braunfels from the start. An older man, with deep pockets, who had helped make the whole thing happen. For him, getting the company to New Braunfels meant he could be close to what he considered one of his major life accomplishments and joys. He was also one of the officials for the tournaments they held, and he loved that job more than running the company. To be honest, at times it showed.

It was a sad situation. So many people in the Chicago area losing their jobs. But a happy time for the people in the New Braunfels area. Jobs that didn't pay nearly as much as they did in Chicago but still decent paying jobs for the New Braunfels area. For me, it was an amazing location. We bought a home in an area that was called Northcliffe. It was a country club estate, and our back yard bordered on one of the fairways. I'd get home from work on warm evenings during the winter and immediately go out on the course and start from our house and go as far around the course as I could before dark. I'd do that several times a week.

I ended up leaving that job after about a year and went to work with a company that manufactured pipe testing equipment for the oil fields and that was one amazing job. The money was amazing, and so were the adventures which ranged from oil fields in Mexico to offshore rigs in the Gulf, as well of the fields of West Texas, Oklahoma's Osage Nation, and to the oilmen's clubs in places like Lafayette, LA. One heck of a ride. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I love New Braunfels. When we lived there in the 80s, the population was less than 1/4 of what it is today. It's one of the fastest growing areas in the entire US. The problem is, it's growing a little too fast, and it's creating a lot of infrastructure problems. We have friends who still live there, and others who have moved there within the last decade from the Chicago area. Now that you brought it up, we're going to have to try to get up there to visit these friends this coming fall.

 

[milani]

Back in 1982 or 1983, can't remember which year, I was hired by a company to help move them from Chicago to New Braunfels. The President of this well-known company was the one who orchestrated the move. He had an ulterior motive. He was involved in the Newcombe project in the late 60s, in New Braunfels from the start. An older man, with deep pockets, who had helped make the whole thing happen. For him, getting the company to New Braunfels meant he could be close to what he considered one of his major life accomplishments and joys. He was also one of the officials for the tournaments they held, and he loved that job more than running the company. To be honest, at times it showed.

It was a sad situation. So many people in the Chicago area losing their jobs. But a happy time for the people in the New Braunfels area. Jobs that didn't pay nearly as much as they did in Chicago but still decent paying jobs for the New Braunfels area. For me, it was an amazing location. We bought a home in an area that was called Northcliffe. It was a country club estate, and our back yard bordered on one of the fairways. I'd get home from work on warm evenings during the winter and immediately go out on the course and start from our house and go as far around the course as I could before dark. I'd do that several times a week.

I ended up leaving that job after about a year and went to work with a company that manufactured pipe testing equipment for the oil fields and that was one amazing job. The money was amazing, and so were the adventures which ranged from oil fields in Mexico to offshore rigs in the Gulf, as well of the fields of West Texas, Oklahoma's Osage Nation, and to the oilmen's clubs in places like Lafayette, LA. One heck of a ride. I wouldn't change it for the world.

I love New Braunfels. When we lived there in the 80s, the population was less than 1/4 of what it is today. It's one of the fastest growing areas in the entire US. The problem is, it's growing a little too fast, and it's creating a lot of infrastructure problems. We have friends who still live there, and others who have moved there within the last decade from the Chicago area. Now that you brought it up, we're going to have to try to get up there to visit these friends this coming fall.

I left Chicago in my 20s and only went back to visit family while they were alive. I would never move back there. Too many people. My uncle who practiced law there since the mid 50s just passed away a few years ago at 96. At old family get togethers his famous line was " This state is so corrupt. "

 

[OldSchool101]

I love those old pictures of the stadium. It reminds me of when they opened it for the first game. It was September 1957. Miss America was there. So was Richard Nixon who dedicated the stadium at halftime. A sellout crowd, over 32,000. We actually beat the Bears; I think it was 21-17 or 21-14. Can't remember exactly. I'm trying to remember the weather. I think it was cold and rainy. Miss America was wearing a fur coat if I recall. I think she had a tarp over her on the sidelines. I was 16 at the time, I wanted her out there in a bathing suit darn it! That first season we had some cold games out there. The crowds weren't too dense either, until Lombardi turned things around. Gawd! As a Packer fan in those days, we really had to love our team to maintain our season tickets and actually attend games. There were times we could have all huddled together in a half a dozen phone booths and had elbow room!

I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. That first year, sitting inside New City Stadium was a treat after sitting on the wooden bleachers often covered in ice seasons before. I think I knew I was a real Packer fan when I was about 8 years old, and when my Dad wouldn't take me to a game where it was so cold that he decided we'd stay at home instead. It was about zero outside, we lived 6 hours away from Green Bay, and it was snowing like a banshee outside, with roads being closed across Highway 29. My Dad knew, because starting on Saturday evening, he was calling the State Highway Patrol every couple of hours to see how the road conditions were. He was upset with himself because we didn't leave on Saturday morning, or even Friday evening and stay in a motel. He was obsessed, just like me. Then I found out the game was going to be on TV. The old Dumont network I believe. I don't remember the announcer. I think there was just one. Not sure. That was on Sunday morning, just before going to Church. Mass was at 11:00 AM, and I kept insisting my dad should make sure he had his wristwatch and pocket watch to make sure we weren't going to be late getting home to watch the game. I think it started at 2 PM in those days.

It was okay. I drank hot chocolate and enjoyed it. But, when it was over, I told my dad that we had to leave earlier for games because I didn't like not being there. It was rough on him at that time. Over six hours driving to Green Bay. We'd leave at around 4:00 AM. We'd always stop at the Abbey Cafe in Abbotsford, WI for breakfast, then finish the trip. After the game, we'd be off, on that long drive. We'd get home about 10 or 11 PM. My mom always had a dinner ready for us, just heat it up a bit in the oven which she had already heated. I'd go to bed with a full stomach, and tales to tell the following morning at school about how I wanted to be just like the players I saw out there.

Something surprising happened back in the early 80s, in New Braunfels, TX. My wife was offered a job by a company called Packers Welding handling the front office, including personnel. Their colors were green and gold. She ended up taking the job, and came home and laughed and said, "Guess who I met today?" I said I did have a clue. That's when she told me she was working for Ed Smith, owner of the company, who played with the Packers in 1948 and early 1949 before ending up elsewhere. I'd seen the guy play in GB. He suffered an injury in training camp his rookie year, and he was never the same as he was before it. I sat around with him a lot of evenings after that talking football. His most memorable time in life, beyond his wife and family, was the opportunity of playing in Green Bay. He told me that if he wasn't a born and bred Texan, he would have settled in Green Bay permanently.

Ed died some years back. Great guy. I wish it would have worked out better for him in Green Bay. From what I've been told by others, he could have been one darned good player if not for the injury.

Sorry! Long post.

The hardest thing in life I’ve ever experienced is pronouncing New Braunfels. I swear Even native Texans screw it up! The guy I used to work with for 7 years pronounced it “New Braunsfel” and we had this little game where I’d correct him over an office cubicle and he’d correct me back with the wrong pronunciation again and the last one won the day.. until the next encounter. A little playful game we played and he was from Texas that idiot! just joking. Randy and I were like the 2 older guys from the Muppets Show, he was a superior intellect but had some major little man insecurities and he would constantly berate people coming through and I’d hush him and try using banter as ground cover to tone him down. People around us thought it comical they’d chuckle.

As just one regular example our office lady would come change our trash can bags. Randy would say “HERE COMES BRANDY….. FLAPPING HER BAGS!” (She was snapping the plastic trash bags open for each office trash can but somehow he made it sound sensual). Trust me it wasn’t innocent at all! Lol

Wonderful story. You need to publish your memoirs Sir!

 

[Voyageur]

I left Chicago in my 20s and only went back to visit family while they were alive. I would never move back there. Too many people. My uncle who practiced law there since the mid 50s just passed away a few years ago at 96. At old family get togethers his famous line was " This state is so corrupt. "

It was ironic that the company was in Chicago considering I'd been a police officer there until I went out to California to continue police work. I'd pretty much had my fill of the city on the streets and with investigations. If the job would have been in Chicago on a permanent basis, I never would have taken it. I will admit that it bothered me how they treated long term employees when we close the place down. They were offered opportunities to "apply for work do in New Braunfels, no guarantees, wages about 60% of what they were in Chicago, and they were on their own hook to move. They were essentially telling them to kiss off. Because of that attitude towards them, I felt no allegiance to them when I gave notice. I told them I was being as fair as they were to their Chicago employees. But I did offer to let them match my new salary which was exactly double what they were paying me. They just laughed. A month later, when I was with the new company, they called and asked me if I would reconsider and come back, and they'd match what I was getting. I said no thanks to them. The sweetheart deal that the state city of New Braunfels cut for them, including building their facility and selling it to them interest free, and zero taxes for several years along with training personnel at no expense to the company, along with lower wages than Chicago. The best sample of what's happening to Northern industry. It's not a level playing field. States like Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota do not have oil being pumped out of the ground to allow for sweetheart deals like that. Then there's the no state income tax which makes the move even more enticing to higher management based on their own salaries. After all, 10% of a $4 million dollar salary is a lot of bucks to most of us.

 

[Voyageur]

The hardest thing in life I’ve ever experienced is pronouncing New Braunfels. I swear Even native Texans screw it up! The guy I used to work with for 7 years pronounced it “New Braunsfel” and we had this little game where I’d correct him over an office cubicle and he’d correct me back with the wrong pronunciation again and the last one won the day.. until the next encounter. A little playful game we played and he was from Texas that idiot! just joking. Randy and I were like the 2 older guys from the Muppets Show, he was a superior intellect but had some major little man insecurities and he would constantly berate people coming through and I’d hush him and try using banter as ground cover to tone him down. People around us thought it comical they’d chuckle.

As just one regular example our office lady would come change our trash can bags. Randy would say “HERE COMES BRANDY….. FLAPPING HER BAGS!” (She was snapping the plastic trash bags open for each office trash can but somehow he made it sound sensual). Trust me it wasn’t innocent at all! Lol

Wonderful story. You need to publish your memoirs Sir!

Texans like to decide on their own pronunciations. Example, Bexar County. Pronouced Bay-har in Spanish. Good old boys call it Bear County. Then there's the city near Austin. Manor. Everywhere else in the world it's pronounced manor as in manor house. Texans ain't buying it. They pronounce it May-nor. WE know the city in Illinois as Elgin. Down here in Texas they pronounce that g as "gh". It comes out like L-ghin.

To each their own. Love New Braunfels Wurstfest, Schlitterbahn, tubing on the Guadalupe River... pronounced Guad - a - loop by Texans. The German food is exceptional.

Then, if you're lucky enough to get tickets to enjoy a special show, end up going to Gruene Hall for someone like Willie. By the way, Texans pronounce that Green Hall.

If you want some outside entertainment, you head up to Whitewater Ampitheater on 306 outside New Braunfels near Canyon Lake. You name it. If it's Austin type music like George Strait and Willie, that's where it's at.

 

[OldSchool101]

Texans like to decide on their own pronunciations. Example, Bexar County. Pronouced Bay-har in Spanish. Good old boys call it Bear County. Then there's the city near Austin. Manor. Everywhere else in the world it's pronounced manor as in manor house. Texans ain't buying it. They pronounce it May-nor. WE know the city in Illinois as Elgin. Down here in Texas they pronounce that g as "gh". It comes out like L-ghin.

To each their own. Love New Braunfels Wurstfest, Schlitterbahn, tubing on the Guadalupe River... pronounced Guad - a - loop by Texans. The German food is exceptional.

Then, if you're lucky enough to get tickets to enjoy a special show, end up going to Gruene Hall for someone like Willie. By the way, Texans pronounce that Green Hall.

If you want some outside entertainment, you head up to Whitewater Ampitheater on 306 outside New Braunfels near Canyon Lake. You name it. If it's Austin type music like George Strait and Willie, that's where it's at.

I’ve been trying to get down there I’ve had clients recommend exactly the areas you just mentioned. Thanks

 

[Voyageur]

I’ve been trying to get down there I’ve had clients recommend exactly the areas you just mentioned. Thanks

Willie's doing two dates at the Ampitheater just before Easter. Of course they sold out within minutes after the dates were announced. If you like the Texas sound in music, a trip to Austin and 6th Street has to be on your agenda. Lots of amazing music venues there in bars and clubs. Lots of people out and about.

I love Austin. The best food trucks in the world. Been to Austin City Limits twice. Just plain enjoy so much about Texas to be honest. Such a different world.

 

[weeds]

I'm surprised none of the younglings here asked me what pin money was. Unless they were fortunate enough to discover some during their sinful youth.

Ok... I'll bite. I've never heard the term before.

 

[milani]

It was ironic that the company was in Chicago considering I'd been a police officer there until I went out to California to continue police work. I'd pretty much had my fill of the city on the streets and with investigations. If the job would have been in Chicago on a permanent basis, I never would have taken it. I will admit that it bothered me how they treated long term employees when we close the place down. They were offered opportunities to "apply for work do in New Braunfels, no guarantees, wages about 60% of what they were in Chicago, and they were on their own hook to move. They were essentially telling them to kiss off. Because of that attitude towards them, I felt no allegiance to them when I gave notice. I told them I was being as fair as they were to their Chicago employees. But I did offer to let them match my new salary which was exactly double what they were paying me. They just laughed. A month later, when I was with the new company, they called and asked me if I would reconsider and come back, and they'd match what I was getting. I said no thanks to them. The sweetheart deal that the state city of New Braunfels cut for them, including building their facility and selling it to them interest free, and zero taxes for several years along with training personnel at no expense to the company, along with lower wages than Chicago. The best sample of what's happening to Northern industry. It's not a level playing field. States like Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota do not have oil being pumped out of the ground to allow for sweetheart deals like that. Then there's the no state income tax which makes the move even more enticing to higher management based on their own salaries. After all, 10% of a $4 million dollar salary is a lot of bucks to most of us.

Florida is another state without its own income tax. If they can collect revenue without it they succeed. I lived in a number of Midwestern states. Minnesota is a beautiful state but as they describe it, very spendy. Iowa is not very populated but it has ethanol and a strong farming base. Good cost of living. Illinois loves taxes. And one of its drawbacks is that Chicago gets subsidized by the rest of the state. But, it is the home of Da Bears. Wisconsin is kind of a mixture of all of them. And it must be thankful it has the Packers.