The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Half Empty]

Yeah, I get that.

I'm curious, then why the "Actually, if the Jets falter has no direct bearing on if the pick will be higher or not. It's pretty straight forward, 2nd rounder unless AR plays 65% or more of the snaps. Then it's a 1st." comment.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I will give you being able to judge someone without meeting them. IMO that does limit your judgement though.

Of course it does. I haven't seen anyone here claiming they know 100% of the details of Rodgers life on and off the field. However, I have seen lots of astute observations and conclusions drawn from both anecdotal evidence and direct language from Rodgers. Anyone that wants to defend Rodgers by saying "That isn't true, because he didn't say it", could be right, but they could also be wrong and should recognize that much of what goes on in the forum is speculation.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I'm curious, then why the "Actually, if the Jets falter has no direct bearing on if the pick will be higher or not. It's pretty straight forward, 2nd rounder unless AR plays 65% or more of the snaps. Then it's a 1st." comment.

Because I wasn't thinking of it that way when I posted. I was thinkin in more general "round" the pick would be in.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I agree that you can absolutely judge someone you don’t know. I just don’t agree with the level of certainty some people have with their judgement in that situation.

 

[milani]

Yes, you do that all the time. But that doesn't mean you're anywhere close to being capable of fairly evaluating a person's character based on it.





I try to be as polite as possible in my response to that. But it's pretty obvious that there's something seriously wrong with all of you when you truly suggest it's the same to advocate not to evaluate the character of a football player who hasn't had any legal issues and a leader who was responsible for killing millions of people.



Well, when you're still the best in the world at your job at age 89 it might be smart for your employer to keep you for another year.



No, I will consider drafting Love a mistake if he doesn't end up leading the Packers to a Super Bowl. Period.



Rodgers hasn't had a decent #2 receiver ever since Gutekunst took over. The Packers rode the QB's coattail to three consecutive 13 win seasons despite lacking talent at pass catcher.



First of all the Packers wouldn't have needed Higgins to have 900 receiving yards as a rookie to be an upgrade over a quarterback who wasn't even active for a single game that season. In addition Rodgers' track record of throwing to rookies is heavily tainted because the team had a ton of weapons early in his career but once they didn't anymore he wasn't provided with enough talent to target a rookie a ton.



Love wasn't even able to challenge Rodgers in his third season with AR playing with a broken thumb for 12 games.



That is still completely unknown.



Once again, I understand that fans were upset with the selection of Rodgers back in 2005 as well. While it's true that selecting another player instead could have resulted in the Packers winning the Super Bowl in 2007 (let's be honest they didn't stand a chance in '05 and '06) the team found itself in a completely different situation at the time they picked Rodgers. Favre was mulling retirement for years, they were in cap hell and hadn't made it to the NFCCG in seven consecutive seasons. They were bound for a rebuild as evidenced by them going 4-12 despite Favre playing in every single game.

In addition Rodgers developing into another HOF quarterback means diddly-squat for how the selection of Love will end up working out.

As a side note, Rodgers was surrounded by a ton of offensive talent up until 2017. He wasn't ever since. Gutekunst doesn't deserve any credit for Thompson providing enough pass catchers before he took over as the team's general manager though.

I still believe you fail to realize that right up until 2017 Rodgers did not play on a team with even an average defense except for one. Even with all the weapons in the world without a defense winning a SB is virtually impossible as evidenced by 2011. And the defense did show signs of small improvements 2019-2022 but nothing to write home about. For all those SB appearances Brady has made he can boast of a defense and he knows that. Twice the Pats beat the Rams with defense. And it was defense that stopped the great Russell Wilson from winning another SB. Very few championships are won winning track meets in sports. Most are won with defense. If Gute failed he failed by not elevating our defense just as Ted Thompson never did except for one season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You really actually believe Rodgers is still at the top of his game and the best QB in the NFL.

There's no doubt Rodgers was a mediocre quarterback last season. But him suffering a broken thumb and a lack of talent at pass catchers significantly contributed to that. He was the best player in the NFL for two consecutive seasons in 2020 and '21.

And yet Rodgers wanted his old #2 WR, Allen Lazard, in NY with him.

You need to realize that Lazard will fill a different role with the Jets this upcoming season compared to the one he had with the Packers in 2022.

I'd put him at average to a little below at this point.

That's utter BS.

My opinion about that is that Rodgers just wanted to play and we (LaFleur) had become accustomed to giving ARod what he wanted.

I highly doubt MLF would have continued to play Rodgers if Love gave them a better chance of winning.

I feel the same and it will be interesting to watch Rodgers work with a new offensive line. The Jets gave up 10 more sacks last year than the Packers, so they better shore up that OL.

Rodgers is a master at manipulating the defense and covering up for shortcomings on the offensive line. I think he will do much better behind a below average OL than Wilson, White and Flacco.

I disagree with you that you cannot judge Aaron Rodgers as a person without having met him.

I'm well aware that you believe you have the ability to fairly evaluate a person's character without ever having interacted with someone. In my opinion you completely overrate yourself in that regard though.

What's that have to do with Rodgers? He's definitely not the best QB in the world right now.

As mentioned above, Rodgers wasn't the best player in the world last season but he was during the two preceding 2022.

Do you think Favre had a more successful career in GB since he made it to more Super Bowls than Rodgers?

No, I think both had an amazing career with the Packers.

You're seriously suggesting the Packers would have considered benching Rodgers for Love last season due to his thumb injury, when it's not even certain to many people that the injury affected his game at all?

It's beyond ridiculous to suggest Rodgers wasn't affected by a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

You only quoted 1 out of his 5. I guess you agree with his other 4 then.

Yes, I completely understand all the other reasons @Pokerbrat2000 listed are being valid ones for the Packers to have moved on from Rodgers this offseason.

I've seen people on this forum say that Rodgers' poor (by his standards) 2022 season was because of a decline in ability due to age, not because of his thumb injury.

Well, I suggest you think hard about the sources you deem to be credible.

I still believe you fail to realize that right up until 2017 Rodgers did not play on a team with even an average defense except for one. Even with all the weapons in the world without a defense winning a SB is virtually impossible as evidenced by 2011. And the defense did show signs of small improvements 2019-2022 but nothing to write home about. For all those SB appearances Brady has made he can boast of a defense and he knows that. Twice the Pats beat the Rams with defense. And it was defense that stopped the great Russell Wilson from winning another SB. Very few championships are won winning track meets in sports. Most are won with defense. If Gute failed he failed by not elevating our defense just as Ted Thompson never did except for one season.

I'm fully aware that Rodgers hasn't been surrounded with a good enough defense for most of his career. The discussion was about the offensive weapons he has been dealt by Gutekunst since the latter became the general manager though.

 

[pacmaniac]

I'm well aware that you believe you have the ability to fairly evaluate a person's character without ever having interacted with someone. In my opinion you completely overrate yourself in that regard though.

I also know what others who are close to Rodgers have said about him. For example, Mark Murphy's comment that he's a "complicated fella" is quite damning, considering he needed to phrase his words as politely as possible. Then Rodgers goes on the McAfee show with that "I'm offended" shirt and it should be obvious to anyone how passive-aggressive he is. You don't need to have interacted with him to see that.

As mentioned above, Rodgers wasn't the best player in the world last season but he was during the two preceding 2022.

So then not "right now". I also see you just admitted that Rodgers "was still an average starter in the league" last season.

It's beyond ridiculous to suggest Rodgers wasn't affected by a broken thumb on his throwing hand.

I was only pointing out that others on this forum suggested it, I wasn't saying that that was my belief.

captainWIMM said:
Well, I suggest you think hard about the sources you deem to be credible.

I certainly won't think someone who has "nonsense I mostly post" in his signature to be credible.

 

[milani]

There's no doubt Rodgers was a mediocre quarterback last season. But him suffering a broken thumb and a lack of talent at pass catchers significantly contributed to that. He was the best player in the NFL for two consecutive seasons in 2020 and '21.



You need to realize that Lazard will fill a different role with the Jets this upcoming season compared to the one he had with the Packers in 2022.



That's utter BS.



I highly doubt MLF would have continued to play Rodgers if Love gave them a better chance of winning.



Rodgers is a master at manipulating the defense and covering up for shortcomings on the offensive line. I think he will do much better behind a below average OL than Wilson, White and Flacco.



I'm well aware that you believe you have the ability to fairly evaluate a person's character without ever having interacted with someone. In my opinion you completely overrate yourself in that regard though.



As mentioned above, Rodgers wasn't the best player in the world last season but he was during the two preceding 2022.



No, I think both had an amazing career with the Packers.



It's beyond ridiculous to suggest Rodgers wasn't affected by a broken thumb on his throwing hand.



Yes, I completely understand all the other reasons @Pokerbrat2000 listed are being valid ones for the Packers to have moved on from Rodgers this offseason.



Well, I suggest you think hard about the sources you deem to be credible.



I'm fully aware that Rodgers hasn't been surrounded with a good enough defense for most of his career. The discussion was about the offensive weapons he has been dealt by Gutekunst since the latter became the general manager though.

It may have been but surrounding Rodgers with the 2011 offense each year is not going to necessarily put a ring on Rodgers pinky. Now it might have put his stats up with the greatest to play the game. Tom Brady is smiling in retirement. The best way for either GM to have helped Rodgers was with defense. Even when Lombardi was out of offensive players to give Bart Starr he still put a defense on the field that could score points or give him the ball so the offense could.

 

[Mondio]

"complicated fella" isn't damning, unless you want it to be. Some people are complicated, some are simple some are in between and there are good and bad in all those groups. All it meant to me was exactly what I've observed. He's very driven, he's very thoughtful in every action, he analyzes things to the point that would probably make many crazy, and when something is important to him, it is important to him. It's what made him so good, because he wasn't that good when he got in the league. But I don't think anybody paid more attention to how and why things worked in an offense, how and why to do things to take advantage of a defense, how and why things that go into the body affect it certain ways, or what biomechanical chains needed more work to influence his throwing platform. It's who he is.

Just like training dogs. I had a female that was "complicated". I had to watch my body language, tone, inflection of commands with everything, but she was the most in tune to absolutely everything dog i've ever met. She could read a room better than every person in it and I could send her up a ladder to get something on a roof if I wanted to. But if I didn't read her correctly, she'd shut down. Is that damning? no, she was my favorite dog ever. Compared to some of my others. didn't matter what I did, said or how I reacted to something, as long as they go to play tug later they'd do whatever I asked.

many people are like this, and much of the NFL is pay me money, I throw football or make tackle or run the ball. Rodgers is not.

 

[OldSchool101]

"complicated fella" isn't damning, unless you want it to be. Some people are complicated, some are simple some are in between and there are good and bad in all those groups. All it meant to me was exactly what I've observed. He's very driven, he's very thoughtful in every action, he analyzes things to the point that would probably make many crazy, and when something is important to him, it is important to him. It's what made him so good, because he wasn't that good when he got in the league. But I don't think anybody paid more attention to how and why things worked in an offense, how and why to do things to take advantage of a defense, how and why things that go into the body affect it certain ways, or what biomechanical chains needed more work to influence his throwing platform. It's who he is.

Just like training dogs. I had a female that was "complicated". I had to watch my body language, tone, inflection of commands with everything, but she was the most in tune to absolutely everything dog i've ever met. She could read a room better than every person in it and I could send her up a ladder to get something on a roof if I wanted to. But if I didn't read her correctly, she'd shut down. Is that damning? no, she was my favorite dog ever. Compared to some of my others. didn't matter what I did, said or how I reacted to something, as long as they go to play tug later they'd do whatever I asked.

many people are like this, and much of the NFL is pay me money, I throw football or make tackle or run the ball. Rodgers is not.

All alone on an “island” a simple comment is certainly dismissible.
I think that’s what you are arguing. However this isn’t that case here.
The dog has shown aggression towards others that’s not in a normal range. The dog is anti-social at other times or doesn’t mesh well with a team of dogs without causing disruption or distraction.
The dog is very athletically gifted, but not reliable and sometimes doesn’t even answer to its own name. Finally, the dog is very close to the end of its competitive Window and has proven by its bark that it just doesn’t want to be here. Love the doggie it’s nothing personal. Time to get a new dog.

 

[Mondio]

yeah, I know, I heard it year after year the past 3 years and yet every time the team had a chance to move on, or the players had a chance to quit on their QB, they haven't so I don't really believe it. They couldn't have thought he was all too complicated in a negative way, they did give him another huge pile of money afterall. They could have just said, No, if it was really so negative.

The old dog might not be able to scale the 9' wall anymore and is too expensive to haul around in the squad car is the easy, and obvious reason. I'm not advocating keeping Rodgers I fully recognize what time it is.

 

[OldSchool101]

yeah, I know, I heard it year after year the past 3 years and yet every time the team had a chance to move on, or the players had a chance to quit on their QB, they haven't so I don't really believe it. They couldn't have thought he was all too complicated in a negative way, they did give him another huge pile of money afterall. They could have just said, No, if it was really so negative.

The old dog might not be able to scale the 9' wall anymore and is too expensive to haul around in the squad car is the easy, and obvious reason. I'm not advocating keeping Rodgers I fully recognize what time it is.

I don’t think Brian expected Love to be ready Year1. Jordan was a College Junior with overall limited production and across multiple Coordinators.

Aaron had a fantastic season in 2020 and his primary motivation was to prove he was not washed up yet. He took the drafting of Love as a personal indictment on his pedestrian play in 2018, 2019. I also don’t think Aaron considered the Packers went through the longest QB draft drought in the SB era. How many QBs had we drafted in the decade leading up to 2020? How old was our QB? It would have been total ignorance of GB not to at least take a good QB of one presented itself. Especially if someone they had ranked as a top #20 area value was slipping. Remember 2020 had not happened so we’re working with 2018-2019 information and they were very pedestrian seasons for Rodgers level of play.

Aaron (and The Packers FO) knew good and well Jordan was unprepared to take the reigns after a CoVid season. Love was a college Junior with zero preseason or live game experience. Aaron Rodgers had the Green Bay Packers bent over a barrel and bend them over he did. Rodgers made The Packers organization pay dearly and pay they did.
Fortunately for the Packers we were able to wash our hands of this mess. Much thanks to Russ for some very crafty contractual arrangements and a wonderful Job by Brian Gutenkunst to recoup lots of trade Capital for that overpayment and 1 year rental.

 

[Mondio]

I was here when it all went down, I remember how it went.

 

[OldSchool101]

I was here when it all went down, I remember how it went.

Well when you continually misrepresent the facts and infer that Aaron Rodgers is totally innocent (through continually and actively defending him at every turn) then that comes across as an indictment on the Packers FO. With all due respect. It sure doesn't come across as understanding both sides of the story to me.

 

[Mondio]

Well when you continually misrepresent the facts and infer that Aaron Rodgers is totally innocent (through continually and actively defending him at every turn) then that comes across as an indictment on the Packers FO. With all due respect. It sure doesn't come across as understanding both sides of the story to me.

he's not totally innocent, never once said he was. He has his quirks. I've also defended the FO in this as well, in numerous posts. Mostly what I defend against is the extreme.

If someone is going to use the "complicated fella" as a negative, but I saw a Front office that once again committed to him, i'm not buying it.

I gave my reasons for not seeing it as anything more than a statement, that he's a bit more than your average person. and I think he obviously is. I don't think MM was saying any more than that in his statement.

 

[rmontro]

This is going to be strange for me this year. This will be the first time in 30 years we haven't had a quarterback who is arguably the best in the NFL, or at least top three or five. I barely remember what it's like not having a HOF quarterback, unless it's like the gory years. What are we supposed to do, hope that Love pulls off a Trent Dilfer?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This is going to be strange for me this year. This will be the first time in 30 years we haven't had a quarterback who is arguably the best in the NFL, or at least top three or five. I barely remember what it's like not having a HOF quarterback, unless it's like the gory years. What are we supposed to do, hope that Love pulls off a Trent Dilfer?

Just take yourself back to 2008 or even 2022.

 

[lambeaulambo]

They wont let me.....lol

now the truth comes out....a mod that was banned!! lol

 

[lambeaulambo]

This is going to be strange for me this year. This will be the first time in 30 years we haven't had a quarterback who is arguably the best in the NFL, or at least top three or five. I barely remember what it's like not having a HOF quarterback, unless it's like the gory years. What are we supposed to do, hope that Love pulls off a Trent Dilfer?

gonna win 6 games. full rebuild mode. put your expectations right there. AR8 cant get back to the SB he chokes every time.

 

[pacmaniac]

I'd put him at average to a little below at this point.

That's utter BS.

How can that be, given this other post of yours? Or are you posting utter BS too?

Rodgers had a terrible season based on his standards he was still an average starter in the league.

 

[Spanky]

...

 

[milani]

This is going to be strange for me this year. This will be the first time in 30 years we haven't had a quarterback who is arguably the best in the NFL, or at least top three or five. I barely remember what it's like not having a HOF quarterback, unless it's like the gory years. What are we supposed to do, hope that Love pulls off a Trent Dilfer?

Or even a Jim McMahon.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So then not "right now". I also see you just admitted that Rodgers "was still an average starter in the league" last season.

Once again, you need to consider that Rodgers played most of last season with a broken thumb while completely lacking talent at pass catchers compared to most other teams.

I was only pointing out that others on this forum suggested it, I wasn't saying that that was my belief.

It should be pretty obvious to everybody that someone suggesting a broken thumb on his throwing hand doesn't affect the performance of a quarterback is completely wrong.

I certainly won't think someone who has "nonsense I mostly post" in his signature to be credible.

You seem to completely lack a sense of humor.

It would have been total ignorance of GB not to at least take a good QB of one presented itself. Especially if someone they had ranked as a top #20 area value was slipping. Remember 2020 had not happened so we’re working with 2018-2019 information and they were very pedestrian seasons for Rodgers level of play.

There would have come a time for it to make sense to select a good quarterback in the draft. Gutekunst doing it in 2020 was too early and in the wrong situation though.

Fortunately for the Packers we were able to wash our hands of this mess. Much thanks to Russ for some very crafty contractual arrangements and a wonderful Job by Brian Gutenkunst to recoup lots of trade Capital for that overpayment and 1 year rental.

It's a shame how many Packers fan consider moving on from a HOF quarterback to be a positive. In addition Ball structuring Rodgers contract extension in the most stupid way I can think of actually resulted in the team all but having to move on this season.

How can that be, given this other post of yours? Or are you posting utter BS too?

I was obviously talking considering Rodgers had to play with a broken thumb last season. While I understand you truly believe that didn't affect his performance because another poster suggested something like that it's pretty obvious it made a huge difference for everybody capable of taking a realistic approach to the situation.

Fully healthy, Rodgers is still on of the best QBs in the league.

 

[rmontro]

gonna win 6 games. full rebuild mode. put your expectations right there. AR8 cant get back to the SB he chokes every time.

Oh, I have no problem with moving on. I figured 2021 was our last chance to see a Super Bowl, and once again the 49ers ended our season. I hated to see those two #1 seeds wasted, especially under the new format, where only the #1 gets a bye.

Or even a Jim McMahon.

TWO Super Bowl rings.

 

[OldSchool101]

Now I am not lumping you into that group. You have been lumped enough on here lately. Since an early age I have found myself sticking up for others against bullies, but by no means do I believe that makes me anywhere near a hero. Just a guy who was brought up the right way.

Oh. That’s noble, then I’m sorry I interfered. Carry on

Love wasn't even able to challenge Rodgers in his third season with AR playing with a broken thumb for 12 games.

I’m not sure the Coaching staff looks at it like that. Rodgers deserves the respect as our QB1 and we paid him accordingly to be that QB1. I think they check with the Physician ti ensure Aaron’s safety isn’t compromised. The Coaching Staff surely asks Aaron if he feels good enough to play.

Short of losing his thumb to amputation, Aaron Rodgers didn’t want to find out if Jordan could compete and take over and start winning games. What do we think the end result would be IF in the slightest chance Jordan comes in and wins a string of games with fantastic play? Would that help Aaron’s long term cause or hurt it?