2024 Roster Status/Tracker

[Sanguine camper]

Another ex Packer that makes sense at the right price would be to acquire Zadarius Smith from the Clowns. He can still rush the passer. He has 4 sacks in 7 games playing about half of the snaps mostly on passing downs. He would lead the Packers with those 4 sacks. Pass rush is the biggest weakness on the Packers. Getting another pass rusher makes some sense if the cost isn't too high. Clooney is a similar player that could be creatively used in passing situations. It's getting more clear with each passing week that Preston Smith isn't the pass rusher he once was and LVN is too stiff to rush the passer from the edge.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Another ex Packer that makes sense at the right price would be to acquire Zadarius Smith from the Clowns. He can still rush the passer. He has 4 sacks in 7 games playing about half of the snaps mostly on passing downs. He would lead the Packers with those 4 sacks. Pass rush is the biggest weakness on the Packers. Getting another pass rusher makes some sense if the cost isn't too high. Clooney is a similar player that could be creatively used in passing situations. It's getting more clear with each passing week that Preston Smith isn't the pass rusher he once was and LVN is too stiff to rush the passer from the edge.

I'm surprised that the pass rush isn't better, especially from the front four.

As for the other guys involved, you point out two good reasons - P Smith's age and LVN's inability to bend at the hips and get around the T. I notice that the T has no problem pushing LVN past the QB and out of the play.

As for Z, I'd love it if he came back, at the right price. 4 sacks in 7 games is good, especially playing for Cleveland.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I never could tell the difference between the Klingons and the Romuluns (they all had bad prostheses, make up). Hmm, I don't know if Romuluns were in the show. It sounds right.

Vulcans prioritize logic and emotional control, Romulans embody secrecy and cunning with a focus on strategy, and Klingons celebrate honor and strength.

A Romulan would shoot you. A Klingon would allow you the chance to be shot with honor. A Vulcan would explain to you why it was necessary for you to be shot.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Another ex Packer that makes sense at the right price would be to acquire Zadarius Smith from the Clowns. He can still rush the passer. He has 4 sacks in 7 games playing about half of the snaps mostly on passing downs. He would lead the Packers with those 4 sacks. Pass rush is the biggest weakness on the Packers. Getting another pass rusher makes some sense if the cost isn't too high. Clooney is a similar player that could be creatively used in passing situations. It's getting more clear with each passing week that Preston Smith isn't the pass rusher he once was and LVN is too stiff to rush the passer from the edge.

Pass on Z. I think he burned his bridge back to Green Bay with his comments after he signed with the Vikings.

I will say it again. Those thinking a good pass rush is measured purely in sacks, need to expand their logic. Now I would agree that Gary and LVN need to improve on something, but for me it is their inability to consistently hold the edge against the run. They both seem way too focused on making that big sack.

Contain the edge, pressure the QB quickly and if a sack results from all that, awesome.

 

[Poppa San]

I never could tell the difference between the Klingons and the Romuluns (they all had bad prostheses, make up). Hmm, I don't know if Romuluns were in the show. It sounds right.

Romulans had the pointy eaars and raised eyebrows like the Vulcans. The females were typically quite attractive.

. Now I would agree that Gary and LVN need to improve on something, but for me it is their inability to consistently hold the edge against the run.

Watch Gary on Trevor's TD run for e good example of this.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Gary embarrassed himself on that TD run. What an Albatros of a big contract for the Packers. He's making nearly 25 million per year and playing like a 5th round draft choice.

 

[tynimiller]

He

Gary embarrassed himself on that TD run. What an Albatros of a big contract for the Packers. He's making nearly 25 million per year and playing like a 5th round draft choice.

He isn’t stacking sacks like folks want and overall for sure isn’t where he wants to be but he has the 35th most pressures in the league which is only a slot or two back from Micah Parsons and actually better than TJ Watt who has more pass snaps played then even Gary.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Romulans had the pointy eaars and raised eyebrows like the Vulcans. The females were typically quite attractive.

Watch Gary on Trevor's TD run for e good example of this.

Romulans - thx for correcting my spelling. Now I remember. Yeah the Klingons were all pretty ugly as I recall.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Vulcans prioritize logic and emotional control, Romulans embody secrecy and cunning with a focus on strategy, and Klingons celebrate honor and strength.

A Romulan would shoot you. A Klingon would allow you the chance to be shot with honor. A Vulcan would explain to you why it was necessary for you to be shot.

That's a very good explanation and brings back some good memories watching all those Star Trek shows.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Romulans had the pointy eaars and raised eyebrows like the Vulcans. The females were typically quite attractive.

Watch Gary on Trevor's TD run for e good example of this.

In the games against the Eagles and Colts, Gary and LVN and the Edge guys were focused on containing the QB, so sacks and pressures weren't as important.

But these guys have to walk and chew gum. The best can adjust to either a pass or a run or bootleg to the outside. LVN gets pushed too far and is taken out of the play. I don't know what is up with Gary. TL should not be running for big yards or a TD.

 

[tynimiller]

That's a very good explanation and brings back some good memories watching all those Star Trek shows.

And a ferengi would con you out of $20 in order to be shot...

 

[Heyjoe4]

Pass on Z. I think he burned his bridge back to Green Bay with his comments after he signed with the Vikings.

I will say it again. Those thinking a good pass rush is measured purely in sacks, need to expand their logic. Now I would agree that Gary and LVN need to improve on something, but for me it is their inability to consistently hold the edge against the run. They both seem way too focused on making that big sack.

Contain the edge, pressure the QB quickly and if a sack results from all that, awesome.

Good point on Z. He did burn his bridge back to GB, and beside that, he just doesn't fit with the youth movement in GB. On that topic, this should be P Smith's last year. He was a great addition, but age catches us all.

I've been disappointed in LVN. He plays too stiff and is manipulated too easily by the tackle. Not sure what is up with Gary. Maybe he is too focused on the sack.

And yeah, consistent pressures are more important than sacks. A sack is like a HR, nice when it happens but pretty rare. But in the draft, and again when evaluating players in the NFL, sacks play an outsize role, imo.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He


He isn’t stacking sacks like folks want and overall for sure isn’t where he wants to be but he has the 35th most pressures in the league which is only a slot or two back from Micah Parsons and actually better than TJ Watt who has more pass snaps played then even Gary.

Everything is relative. Gary is not having his best year but I'm still glad he's on our side. And as Poker noted, pressures are a better measure of an Edge player's disruption of the QB than sacks alone.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Good point on Z. He did burn his bridge back to GB, and beside that, he just doesn't fit with the youth movement in GB. On that topic, this should be P Smith's last year. He was a great addition, but age catches us all.

I've been disappointed in LVN. He plays too stiff and is manipulated too easily by the tackle. Not sure what is up with Gary. Maybe he is too focused on the sack.

And yeah, consistent pressures are more important than sacks. A sack is like a HR, nice when it happens but pretty rare. But in the draft, and again when evaluating players in the NFL, sacks play an outsize role, imo.

Sacks stop drives at a much higher rate than "pressures" or hits. With a mobile qb, pressures very often result in giving up a first down when he breaks contain and scrambles for 10 to 15 yards. As I have posted in the past, instead of hits or "pressures", pass rushers should be credited with a forced incompletion if their rush creates an inaccurate throw. It shouldn't be too difficult. Every incompletion is the result of 4 causes. 1 a dropped pass, 2. A poor throw 3. A pass breakup by a DB, 4 a forced incompletion by the pass rush.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Sacks stop drives at a much higher rate than "pressures" or hits. With a mobile qb, pressures very often result in giving up a first down when he breaks contain and scrambles for 10 to 15 yards. As I have posted in the past, instead of hits or "pressures", pass rushers should be credited with a forced incompletion if their rush creates an inaccurate throw. It shouldn't be too difficult. Every incompletion is the result of 4 causes. 1 a dropped pass, 2. A poor throw 3. A pass breakup by a DB, 4 a forced incompletion by the pass rush.

Yeah your suggestion provides an even better measure. And the four things you mentioned could certainly be tracked (and probably are somewhere.

Mahomes illustrates what you're talking about, and a younger version of Rodgers - when they get pressured out of the pocket they often play their best football. Anyway, good point Sanguine.

(At some point there become too many categories or situations to track, and this could be an example. But when evaluating a position, like Edge rusher, these stats do paint a better picture. Pressuring a QB into an incompletion is different than pressuring him into completions or even TDs. Again, it may just not be practical to track.)

 

[Magooch]

In any case Gary is top ~40 in pressures while top ~10 in AAV for edge players.
No matter how we try and stretch out the data, put our thumb on the scale, etc… I don’t think there’s any way anyone could claim with a straight face that he’s living up to his contract.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sacks stop drives at a much higher rate than "pressures" or hits. With a mobile qb, pressures very often result in giving up a first down when he breaks contain and scrambles for 10 to 15 yards. As I have posted in the past, instead of hits or "pressures", pass rushers should be credited with a forced incompletion if their rush creates an inaccurate throw. It shouldn't be too difficult. Every incompletion is the result of 4 causes. 1 a dropped pass, 2. A poor throw 3. A pass breakup by a DB, 4 a forced incompletion by the pass rush.

I agree with your thoughts on grading "pass rushers" needs to be more comprehensive to be more accurate. However, lets not forget that these so called "pass rushers" are also responsible for holding the edge and/or making tackles on rushing plays, including QB rushes. So if they give up yards because they left running lanes wide open, that is a negative. This is an area where I think offenses exploit our defensive line. It is very easy for an OL to simply help escort a sack hungry defensive lineman away from a run lane.

So yes, sacks are great, but if they come at the cost of opening up lanes for a RB or QB to pick up big chunks, then I would say, being overly focused on them, can hurt a defense.

 

[tynimiller]

In any case Gary is top ~40 in pressures while top ~10 in AAV for edge players.
No matter how we try and stretch out the data, put our thumb on the scale, etc… I don’t think there’s any way anyone could claim with a straight face that he’s living up to his contract.

It isn't stretching data. LOL

I haven't heard anyone state he is playing at the ELITE level we all would hope. Part of the nature of contract's...I mean shoot Christian Kirk was one of the top paid WRs at one time because of timing of signing. His hit to the team this year is only $11 Million which he is easily playing up to, but we didn't pay him to be an above average starter like he has been. WE paid him to be a great level starter.

He is presently projecting to finish very similar to his second year in the league (2020) and 2022 (his shortened year due to injury). Fact is on the whole this just isn't living up to things at all. I've found myself wondering and believing it is a collection of factors most likely:

- new system may be a factor of course, but to what degree who knows...we do know Hafley intentionally this year at times pressed his edges to focus on contain and not getting to the QB.

- Is there a nagging health issue? We won't know this till post-season likely but who knows.

- The play of Preston and LVN are not what they used to be allowing teams to focus attention to Gary. I've noticed a lot of protection sliding happens Gary's way but rarely opposite side. Preston may finally be slowing down in his pressure making abilties - albeit very consistent elsewhere still as always. He is also on pace for a very low pressure amount he has NEVER done in his whole career.

That last point makes me really draw some more out of the system could be a bigger factor than I even thought until I started researching this for my response. The fact that we are seeing Gary and Preston BOTH possibly having the lowest pressure years (ignore sacks, pressures >> sacks) they've had in their careers cannot be a coincident right? I mean truly could be but dang...seems crazy to be happening right? LVN is also on pass for far less pressures than he has done in the past....

 

[tynimiller]

So yes, sacks are great, but if they come at the cost of opening up lanes for a RB or QB to pick up big chunks, then I would say, being overly focused on them, can hurt a defense.

ABSOLUTELY...who gives a RIP if you have 20 sacks on a season if you only played 22 snaps well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ABSOLUTELY...who gives a RIP if you have 20 sacks on a season if you only played 22 snaps well.

Yup and I will give fans an example of another stat, that is sometimes overly hyped....Interceptions. How often has a guy gotten an interception on a poorly thrown or tipped ball? Does that make him a great player on that play? How did he do on the rest of the snaps that game? Call it the "Josh Jackson rule of scouting".

 

[Magooch]

It isn't stretching data. LOL

Maybe not "stretching" it but we can at least admit it's twisting it a bit. If someone (sanguine) says Gary's been playing poorly and nowhere close to his contract and the rebuttal is to point out that he also is 35th in pressures it's a bit of a non-sequitur. It's not hard to find a statistic to support any given point of view if you are so inclined.

I haven't heard anyone state he is playing at the ELITE level we all would hope.

Well, sure. So I'm not sure what the discussion is here: We're all in agreement that he's not living up to his contract.

Part of the nature of contract's...I mean shoot Christian Kirk was one of the top paid WRs at one time because of timing of signing.

Maybe my memory is correct, but wasn't that signing almost universally derided as a MASSIVE overpay at the time? Not sure what bearing it has here...

His hit to the team this year is only $11 Million which he is easily playing up to, but we didn't pay him to be an above average starter like he has been. WE paid him to be a great level starter.

Yup, again, agreed... BUT TBH think even "easily playing up to 11m" is bordering on generous. There are certainly others who are doing more with less at the moment. Ironically even Z. Smith (previously mentioned) has been much better and has half the cap hit this year (and I don't know if it is totally appropriate to single out Gary's 2024 cap hit vs the totality of his contract in the first place. It does look better for Gary if you picture it that way, but worse for the team if you look at the big picture)

He is presently projecting to finish very similar to his second year in the league (2020) and 2022 (his shortened year due to injury). Fact is on the whole this just isn't living up to things at all. I've found myself wondering and believing it is a collection of factors most likely:

- new system may be a factor of course, but to what degree who knows...we do know Hafley intentionally this year at times pressed his edges to focus on contain and not getting to the QB.

Interestingly Gary's PFF grade has consistently been dropping. In 2021 it was an 89.8; in 2022 it was 84.4; last year 80.9. Thus far for the season he sits at 66.9 which is pretty much bang in the middle average, with a slightly above-average run D grade and a slightly below-average pass D grade. His pass rush grade and pass rush win rate has consistently been dropping too, of course before Hafley ever entered the picture...

That last point makes me really draw some more out of the system could be a bigger factor than I even thought until I started researching this for my response. The fact that we are seeing Gary and Preston BOTH possibly having the lowest pressure years (ignore sacks, pressures >> sacks) they've had in their careers cannot be a coincident right? I mean truly could be but dang...seems crazy to be happening right? LVN is also on pass for far less pressures than he has done in the past....

The "Occam's razor" solution for me is probably just a combination of two things: 1.) that Preston is 31 and starting to show natural signs of decline and 2.) we overpaid on Gary and overrated LVN. It's not so much "underperforming" as it is "regression to the mean".

 

[tynimiller]

Yup, again, agreed... BUT TBH think even "easily playing up to 11m" is bordering on generous. There are certainly others who are doing more with less at the moment. Ironically even Z. Smith (previously mentioned) has been much better and has half the cap hit this year (and I don't know if it is totally appropriate to single out Gary's 2024 cap hit vs the totality of his contract in the first place. It does look better for Gary if you picture it that way, but worse for the team if you look at the big picture)

By what metric are you stating Z is much better overall so clearly? Sure Smith has produced more sacks but he is at 24 total pressures and Rashan is at 18 total...not really that much separation.

I did use PFF disclosure of data for metrics to be consistent:
Tackles it is Gary has 19 vs Z 17
Hurries Z has 19 vs Gary at 12
QB Hits Gary at 4 vs Z at 1
Ovr Grade Z at 71.4 vs Gary 66.9
Run Defense Gary at 68.3 vs Z at 63.4
Pass rush Z at 70.0 vs Gary at 61.9

Truthfully I'd say this year in a vacuum these two are playing very very similar.

The "Occam's razor" solution for me is probably just a combination of two things: 1.) that Preston is 31 and starting to show natural signs of decline and 2.) we overpaid on Gary and overrated LVN. It's not so much "underperforming" as it is "regression to the mean".

Absolutely could be! Preston was destined at some point to really start that drop. In truth we need a stud to allow him to be a veteran depth piece not the starter, I think he could excel a year or two more in that role. LVN for sure is not progressing at all to what many felt, he truly infuriates me because there are always a snap or two where that young man's physical ability pops like he's an All Pro....and then their are 20 more snaps for every one of those where you don't even NOTICE his existence.

 

[gopkrs]

I think the problem with LVN is that he is a one trick pony. He does not seem to have many options on how he rushes the passer. Is that a coaching problem?

 

[Magooch]

By what metric are you stating Z is much better overall so clearly? Sure Smith has produced more sacks but he is at 24 total pressures and Rashan is at 18 total...not really that much separation.

But again I think this is kind of a good example of being able to take stats to say what we want them to say. Because first it was "Gary is 38th in total pressures!" but now the difference between 24 and 18 is not that much....except that's the difference between 38th and 19th in total pressures. And one could note that as of a week or so ago Gary was in the single-digits for total pressures and a sub-5% pass rush win rate. But all that to say that it doesn't really need to be that complicated. Would you rather have Gary's first 8 games of 2024, or Z's? That is an EXTREMELY easy answer for me and that's not even to factor in the financial disparity between the two...

Absolutely could be! Preston was destined at some point to really start that drop. In truth we need a stud to allow him to be a veteran depth piece not the starter, I think he could excel a year or two more in that role.

Yep, that's my feeling too - just think too much of him is being asked at this point and he's not getting enough out of the supporting cast to maximize him as he begins to decline.

 

[Sanguine camper]

ABSOLUTELY...who gives a RIP if you have 20 sacks on a season if you only played 22 snaps well.

Other than a turnover, sacks are the second best way to stop a drive by far. That's why guys who consistently put up big sack numbers get such huge money. Please give me a guy with 20 sacks any day. Look at it this way: The typical possession nets about 2.5 points. With a sack that number plummets probably under 1 point per drive. If a guy gets 20 sacks, he's literally taking 30-40 points off the scoreboard. You are going to win a lot more close games that way. If a guy is a one trick pony and is just a pass rusher, that deficiency can be compensated by playing him on passing downs. Sacks don't satisfy every metric of success but they are still huge!