What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

[GleefulGary]

I agree.

But your characterization of Hock is incorrect. He's a legit prospect who's more athletic than Ertz (one of the top TE's in the league).

I've been vocal about there being better value later, but I won't destroy my TV if they take Hock.

Now see...you're being reasonable. That only happens in FANTASY LAND! Please don't do that here.

 

[GleefulGary]

Can't wait til the draft is over and Parris Campbell is playing for not the Packers.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree.

But your characterization of Hock is incorrect. He's a legit prospect who's more athletic than Ertz (one of the top TE's in the league).

I've been vocal about there being better value later, but I won't destroy my TV if they take Hock.

Hockenson projects for me a good solid NFL TE. Nothing great or GAMECHANGING. He isnt Kittle and wont run by anyone. He needs to get stronger too. He certainly isnt worth the 12th pick in the draft.

The Gronk comparisons are INSANE. Every year I've heard people talk about the NEXT GRONK and they all BUST.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Hockenson projects for me a good solid NFL TE. Nothing great or GAMECHANGING. He isnt Kittle and wont run by anyone. He needs to get stronger too. He certainly isnt worth the 12th pick in the draft.

The Gronk comparisons are INSANE. Every year I've heard people talk about the NEXT GRONK and they all BUST.

I've never compared T.J. to Gronk. I don't want a Gronk. I prefer my TE's intelligent and not injury prone. Gronk's body was falling apart already in college at Arizona.

 

[brandon2348]

If you guys really want to get real and get out of FANTASY LAND and put down the pipe for a second the guy I think they could make a play for is Oliver. I would be down with that pick.

I didnt like Oliver at first for a couple reasons but him rushing from the inside with these new edge rushers could be GAME CHANGING. So I like Oliver in a scheme specific situation that could make our pass rush lethal.

I think they could even trade up to get him. He is on the radar for sure.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Brandon gets the news "With the 12th pick in the 2019 NFL draft, the Green Bay Packers select T.J. Hockenson, TE, Iowa."

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[GreenNGold_81]

Hockenson projects for me a good solid NFL TE. Nothing great or GAMECHANGING. He isnt Kittle and wont run by anyone. He needs to get stronger too. He certainly isnt worth the 12th pick in the draft.

The Gronk comparisons are INSANE. Every year I've heard people talk about the NEXT GRONK and they all BUST.

Gronk has ran past plenty of people and he only ran 0.02 faster at his combine. He also ran a 7.18 3-cone (again, Hock 7.02). I'd say Hock projects pretty well to that level of athleticism and maybe a bit more quick twitch. Gronk did have 23 reps compared to Hock's pretty meh 17 reps. If you want to criticize something, I'd start there - at least that way you'd be accurate.

 

[brandon2348]

I've never compared T.J. to Gronk. I don't want a Gronk. I prefer my TE's intelligent and not injury prone. Gronk's body was falling apart already in college at Arizona.

I prefer my TE's to run in the 4.5 range and be able to stretch the seam with AR12 at QB.

Yeah, they want to run the ball but this is still going to be a passing offense. Please don't fool yourself.

Also, Mercedes Lewis will return to form as one of the best run blocking TE's in the NFL with LaFleur I've seen the guy in street clothes and he makes Hockenson look like a high school kid.

 

[Dantés]

Brandon gets the news "With the 12th pick in the 2019 NFL draft, the Green Bay Packers select T.J. Hockenson, TE, Iowa."

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

I wonder how he feels knowing he's turned himself into a punch line?

Or does he realize it?

 

[brandon2348]

Gronk has ran past plenty of people and he only ran 0.02 faster at his combine. He also ran a 7.18 3-cone (again, Hock 7.02). I'd say Hock projects pretty well to that level of athleticism and maybe a bit more quick twitch. Gronk did have 23 reps compared to Hock's pretty meh 17 reps. If you want to criticize something, I'd start there - at least that way you'd be accurate.

Dont forget to add that Gronk is 6'6 265. Hockenson doesnt have that body.

Please quit playing tricks on yourself. He isnt Gronk.

 

[brandon2348]

I wonder how he feels knowing he's turned himself into a punch line?

Or does he realize it?

I don't give a F*** what you think Dante with your predictable takes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How do we know Brandon isn't actually TJ or his Dad and just doesn't want to play for the Packers? Maybe he wants to end up in Detroit with that higher paying #8 pick?

 

[Dantés]

Jace Sternberger, TE, TAMU: 4.75

How do we know Brandon isn't actually TJ or his Dad and just doesn't want to play for the Packers? Maybe he wants to end up in Detroit with that higher paying #8 pick?

I believe both TJ and his dad graduated college. I don't think they could pose as someone this ignorant no matter how hard they tried.

 

[brandon2348]

I wonder how he feels knowing he's turned himself into a punch line?

Or does he realize it?

Basically your some San Diego Charger Re-Tread who came on board because you had a ******* for Ted Thompson.

YOU GOT NOTHING!

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Dont forget to add that Gronk is 6'6 265. Hockenson doesnt have that body.

Please quit playing tricks on yourself. He isnt Gronk.

Hock is 55% percentile for height at the TE position. 6'4 and 3/4 of an inch. Basically almost 6'5". Using height against him isn't really helping you.

He does have small hands and arms though.

So you get: relatively weak, with small hands and arms.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It won't shock me at all if the Packers use one of their first round picks on a TE from Iowa. But if I was a betting man, I would say it will be Fant at #30, if he is still available. His combine numbers really helped him.

I think Hockenson is the better of the 2 in the way he would be used in Green Bay, but still not 100% convinced he is worth the #12 pick, unless the top 10 non-QB's are all gone.

 

[GleefulGary]

Gronk has ran past plenty of people and he only ran 0.02 faster at his combine. He also ran a 7.18 3-cone (again, Hock 7.02). I'd say Hock projects pretty well to that level of athleticism and maybe a bit more quick twitch. Gronk did have 23 reps compared to Hock's pretty meh 17 reps. If you want to criticize something, I'd start there - at least that way you'd be accurate.

This isn't really directed at you, just a general statement.

The bench is so overrated in terms of analyzing functional strength. I would much rather use lifts like hang cleans or squats to analyze strength, especially for run blocking.

Take Hock for example, as a TE, he will rarely pass block. So his anchor and punch is not as important, right? He's going to be driving forward and torqueing guys out or down. That takes leg and core strength, which a bench press does not account for. Technique is also a huge, huge part of it. You can be as strong as Samson, but if you don't have the technique, you will struggle blocking. Iowa is renowned for their blocking technique, and it shows with Hockenson (and Fant for that matter). Watch two minutes of Iowa tape, and you'll see Hock pile driving DE's into the ground or out of the play. That translates. Technique always translates. You can see he has tremendous core and leg strength, which shows up in his jumps too. It's all torque!

Long story short, using the bench press to say this guy won't be able to run block is extremely disingenuous and faulty. Run blocking is the last thing anybody should be worried about when it comes to Hock.

 

[brandon2348]

Hock is 55% percentile for height at the TE position. 6'4 and 3/4 of an inch. Basically almost 6'5". Using height against him isn't really helping you.

He does have small hands and arms though.

So you get: relatively weak, with small hands and arms.

We can compare all day. He isn't Gronk and I would put everything on that.

People think I dont like Hockenson and it simply isn't true. I think he will be a solid pro but people have to realize that he is stepping up to a whole new level of speed and physicality. His athletic ability is good but it doesn't pop out at you along with flags on hands and arms etc. His intangibles are through the roof but there is a strong possibility his ceiling just wont be that high. You simply cannot gamble pick 12 on that along with it being the TE position.

Plain and simple. You would have to have Fant's athletic ability combined with TJ's intangible's to warrant taking a TE at 12 for me.

Throw in that were paying Graham big $ with two other TE's under contract(one being a young one with upside) and other glarring holes in WIN NOW MODE and I don't even know how the hell Hockenson is even on the Table at 30 let alone 12.

It's a waste of time to even talk about it. I'm DONE.

 

[Dantés]

It won't shock me at all if the Packers use one of their first round picks on a TE from Iowa. But if I was a betting man, I would say it will be Fant at #30, if he is still available. His combine numbers really helped him.

I think Hockenson is the better of the 2 in the way he would be used in Green Bay, but still not 100% convinced he is worth the #12 pick, unless the top 10 non-QB's are all gone.

While I also prefer Hockenson, Green Bay's propensity for freakish athleticism might make them lean Fant. But I struggle to imagine either guy making it to #30. Fant is better than Engram, and Engram didn't make it to #30.

While I'd be down with Hockenson at #12, I don't believe he's the pick there. I think they will either take a different position, or try to trade down and take him. If he's not the selection, then I think they're going to end up waiting on TE until #44, #75, or even into the 4th depending on how things fall.

If Petals wants an H Back, then Irv Smith makes sense. If he wants a true Y, then he's going to have to look elsewhere.

 

[GleefulGary]

I prefer my TE's to run in the 4.5 range and be able to stretch the seam with AR12 at QB.

Yeah, they want to run the ball but this is still going to be a passing offense. Please don't fool yourself.

Also, Mercedes Lewis will return to form as one of the best run blocking TE's in the NFL with LaFleur I've seen the guy in street clothes and he makes Hockenson look like a high school kid.

Let it be known that the only TE's that can stretch the seam currently are George Kittle and Evan Engram. Oh, and OJ Howard.

Kelce, Ertz, Gronk, CANNOT stretch the seam. I don't care what you've seen on tape, they CANNOT do it. Just simply aren't fast enough.

 

[Dantés]

Hock is 55% percentile for height at the TE position. 6'4 and 3/4 of an inch. Basically almost 6'5". Using height against him isn't really helping you.

He does have small hands and arms though.

So you get: relatively weak, with small hands and arms.

Relatively weak based on what?

 

[GleefulGary]

We can compare all day. He isn't Gronk and I would put everything on that.

People think I dont like Hockenson and it simply isn't true. I think he will be a solid pro but people have to realize that he is stepping up to a whole new level of speed and physicality. His athletic ability is good but it doesn't pop out at you along with flags on hands and arms etc. His intangibles are through the roof but there is a strong possibility his ceiling just wont be that high. You simply cannot gamble pick 12 on that along with it being the TE position.

Plain and simple. You would have to have Fant's athletic ability combined with TJ's intangible's to warrant taking a TE at 12 for me.

Throw in that were paying Graham big $ with two other TE's under contract(one being a young one with upside) and other glarring holes in WIN NOW MODE and I don't even know how the hell Hockenson is even on the Table at 30 let alone 12.

It's a waste of time to even talk about it. I'm DONE.

You've been saying it's a waste of time talking about it for two months, yet here you still are.

First it was that he might go in the 3rd round, then it was that he wouldn't go in the first round, and now you're just clawing up for excuses. It's okay to be wrong. I'm wrong often. You (clearly) are too. It's okay! You'll get over it someday big guy.

 

[brandon2348]

This isn't really directed at you, just a general statement.

The bench is so overrated in terms of analyzing functional strength. I would much rather use lifts like hang cleans or squats to analyze strength, especially for run blocking.

The Bench was important when Oliver repped out the other day? You were all happy happy.

Yes, bench is important for OL, DL and guys that will be blocking inline in the NFL. So that would include TE's.

Nice try. That's exactly why they test it.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Relatively weak based on what?

His peers at TE. He measures out at the 21st percentile according to his bench press.

Source: https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tj-hockenson

 

[brandon2348]

Let it be known that the only TE's that can stretch the seam currently are George Kittle and Evan Engram. Oh, and OJ Howard.

Kelce, Ertz, Gronk, CANNOT stretch the seam. I don't care what you've seen on tape, they CANNOT do it. Just simply aren't fast enough.

Vernon Davis did it. Ebron has started to do it. Jarred Cook has done it for years. What the hell are you talking about?