What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

[Packer96]

Hock is being called the BEST TE prospect in YEARS, why would we not take him at 12? 2 degrees in 3 years, he'll pick up the offense quickly. Gives us the option to do multiple things with the same personnel group. Every down player. I think the posters against him are watching a different game.

 

[brandon2348]

I know I keep mentioning mock drafts and I realize that they are not always the expert sources of information they like to pretend they are but I have seen enough of them that have Hockenson going to us at 12 or even before us to think he is certainly worth the #12 pick. As opposed to say Fant who I have seen going to us at 12 but rarely before us and often to us at 30 so if we are going to take TE at 12 I hope it is Hockenson.

As I said before mocks taken individually are pretty much useless for people who don't know the players from watching them (people like me) If I look at 1 mock and I see they have us taking player A I logically think player A must be pretty good and I would be happy with him. However, if I look at 10 other mocks and the highest any of them have Player A going is 18 and most are in the 20's and a couple not even in the 1st round I have to wonder if player A is the best choice for us at #12. That is not to say he wouldn't be a good pick. Just that he might not be the best choice for that high of a pick. If he is a player a team really likes he may be the target of a trade down at this point. Likewise if those 10 other mocks have player A clustered around 12 (10-15 say) I think I can logically assume that he might be a good choice. If 8 of those 10 mocks have him going in the top 10 I might think he would be steal at 12 and we should definitely take him if he is there. IMO mocks are only good if use as comparisons to one another but when used as such they can be a pretty good indicator of where a player should be expected to go.

Obviously personal preferences can really affect those grades. I have seen Hockenson mocked in the third round (post combine) by a few people but its few enough for me to consider them outliers and I pretty much disregard them. These are most likely guys who have a personal dislike for the player for whatever reason.

everyone watches players with their own prejudices in mind so they will have their own favorites and their own duds. In some cases they will be right and in some they will be wrong.

That's why I like Charlie Campbell. He actually has REAL SOURCES. He factors in needs and contracts to current players. He isn't just trying to get CLICKS. He is right more then many others when it actually plays out.

I really like his mock and it makes a lot of sense. In fact if we got Germaine Pratt instead of the CLAY MATTHEWS WANNA BE. I'd be ecstatic with this haul. It would put us over the top.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019charlie.php

 

[Dantés]

I don't think you understand. I like Mike Bell, pretty sure I was the first one here to bring him up. But when you talk about GAME CHANGING SPEED, and thing bring up a safety who runs a 4.8, your narrative starts to ring hollow.

And we've been over this. Hock is in the 91st percentile of athleticism given his size for TE's. The idea he isn't a good athlete, or that he's slow, is laughable and easily proven wrong.

I bet Brandon realizes his inconsistencies and admits it humbly.

 

[brandon2348]

Hock is being called the BEST TE prospect in YEARS, why would we not take him at 12? 2 degrees in 3 years, he'll pick up the offense quickly. Gives us the option to do multiple things with the same personnel group. Every down player. I think the posters against him are watching a different game.

4.75

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[brandon2348]

What's funny is that we basically want the exact same things, .

Yeah, more PUSSIE'S!

 

[brandon2348]

I don't think you understand. I like Mike Bell, pretty sure I was the first one here to bring him up. But when you talk about GAME CHANGING SPEED, and thing bring up a safety who runs a 4.8, your narrative starts to ring hollow.

And we've been over this. Hock is in the 91st percentile of athleticism given his size for TE's. The idea he isn't a good athlete, or that he's slow, is laughable and easily proven wrong.

I never said he was a GAME CHANGER!

I like him in the 4th round as a nice piece Pettine can scheme in. He can TACKLE. He has ball skills in the middle. I want guys that can TACKLE. Tired of seeing missed tackle after missed tackle and guy over pursuing because there PUSSIE'S and lack REAL FOOTBALL INSTINCTS.

I'll take him over Josh Jones clueless *** any day.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

4.75

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Ertz: 40 time: 4.76, 3-cone 7.08 (fastest 3-cone for his position at the combine that year).

Hock: 40: 4.70 and 3-cone: 7.02.

 

[Dantés]

I know I keep mentioning mock drafts and I realize that they are not always the expert sources of information they like to pretend they are but I have seen enough of them that have Hockenson going to us at 12 or even before us to think he is certainly worth the #12 pick. As opposed to say Fant who I have seen going to us at 12 but rarely before us and often to us at 30 so if we are going to take TE at 12 I hope it is Hockenson.

As I said before mocks taken individually are pretty much useless for people who don't know the players from watching them (people like me) If I look at 1 mock and I see they have us taking player A I logically think player A must be pretty good and I would be happy with him. However, if I look at 10 other mocks and the highest any of them have Player A going is 18 and most are in the 20's and a couple not even in the 1st round I have to wonder if player A is the best choice for us at #12. That is not to say he wouldn't be a good pick. Just that he might not be the best choice for that high of a pick. If he is a player a team really likes he may be the target of a trade down at this point. Likewise if those 10 other mocks have player A clustered around 12 (10-15 say) I think I can logically assume that he might be a good choice. If 8 of those 10 mocks have him going in the top 10 I might think he would be steal at 12 and we should definitely take him if he is there. IMO mocks are only good if use as comparisons to one another but when used as such they can be a pretty good indicator of where a player should be expected to go.

Obviously personal preferences can really affect those grades. I have seen Hockenson mocked in the third round (post combine) by a few people but its few enough for me to consider them outliers and I pretty much disregard them. These are most likely guys who have a personal dislike for the player for whatever reason.

everyone watches players with their own prejudices in mind so they will have their own favorites and their own duds. In some cases they will be right and in some they will be wrong.

You may already know this, Sschind, but Charlie Campbell is an idiot and that whole Walterfootball site is pretty trashy. They've demonstrated that through a long track record of bad takes.

People are, of course, free to read and share whatever draft content they want to. But I thought I would throw my two cents in.

Over the years, Daniel Jeremiah, Lance Zierlein, Dane Brugler, and Ben Fennell have proved to be pretty knowledgeable and worth reading-- not their mocks so much as their analysis.

Cue Brandon saying something vile in all caps.

 

[Dantés]

Hock is being called the BEST TE prospect in YEARS, why would we not take him at 12? 2 degrees in 3 years, he'll pick up the offense quickly. Gives us the option to do multiple things with the same personnel group. Every down player. I think the posters against him are watching a different game.

Well the logical answer to your question is that they'd pass on him for someone they like better.

I love Hockenson. I'm down to take him at 12. But if they pass for a great OL prospect or someone like Ed Oliver, I don't think that's crazy.

Seems like for a lot of people, Hockenson is either the only option in their mind or he isn't worth drafting at all. Both are weird.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

There are 3 cats in this draft I would feel 100% good about getting at #12. ANY other player in this draft I have to worry about busting. I am getting too old for those worries and sure as hell can't take #12 in the draft being a non-factor 2 yrs from now.

The only 3 players I feel 100% good about at #12 all have very slim chances of being there at #12.

Josh Allen

Ed Oliver

T.J. Hockenson

The bottom one has the best chance to be there, yet it's a slim chance. The other 2, zero chance.

#TakeHockIfHeIsThere

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I knew this in the back of my brain, reading it today reaffirmed for me, just how much the Packers have ignored the offense when it comes to the draft. Will this be the year that the streak is broken?

Adam Schefter
The last time the Packers selected a non-QB offensive skill position player was when they chose Florida St. WR Javon Walker in 2002. That 16-year drought is the longest active streak without selecting a non-QB offensive skill position player in the 1st round.

 

[Dantés]

There are 3 cats in this draft I would feel 100% good about getting at #12. ANY other player in this draft I have to worry about busting. I am getting too old for those worries and sure as hell can't take #12 in the draft being a non-factor 2 yrs from now.

The only 3 players I feel 100% good about at #12 all have very slim chances of being there at #12.

Josh Allen

Ed Oliver

T.J. Hockenson

The bottom one has the best chance to be there, yet it's a slim chance. The other 2, zero chance.

#TakeHockIfHeIsThere

I think Hockenson's shot at being there is a lot better than slim.

Also, you have to worry about all players busting. None are immune.

If they decide to take Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard, that would be great. OT's are premium, hard to find, expensive, and these two are good.

If they decide to take Devin Bush because this LB class basically has two real dudes, that would be ok.

If they decide to take a 3T and it's Christian Willins, not Oliver, I think that's fine.

 

[Dantés]

While I knew this in the back of my brain, reading it today reaffirmed for me, just how much the Packers have ignored the offense when it comes to the draft. Will this be the year that the streak is broken?

Adam Schefter
The last time the Packers selected a non-QB offensive skill position player was when they chose Florida St. WR Javon Walker in 2002. That 16-year drought is the longest active streak without selecting a non-QB offensive skill position player in the 1st round.

It's weird that they've had any success at all, just totally ignoring the "Brandon/Millen Method to Build a Super Awesome Team Immediately" approach to the draft.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Hockenson's shot at being there is a lot better than slim.

Also, you have to worry about all players busting. None are immune.

If they decide to take Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard, that would be great. OT's are premium, hard to find, expensive, and these two are good.

If they decide to take Devin Bush because this LB class basically has two real dudes, that would be ok.

If they decide to take a 3T and it's Christian Willins, not Oliver, I think that's fine.

I tend to agree with you. I think the Packers are going to have a decent pool of guys available at #12, most of who are pretty equal and would address a need. This might allow Gute to trade back 4-5 spots or if there is one player they really like, stay pat.

I'm thinking at #12, at least 2-3 of these guys will still be there and plausible picks for the Packers:

• Oliver
• Hochenson
• White
• Bush
• Williams
• Dillard

 

[brandon2348]

I bet Brandon realizes his inconsistencies and admits it humbly.

Tape+Combine+intangibles+Need= Grade

Nothing inconsistent about it

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's weird that they've had any success at all, just totally ignoring the "Brandon/Millen Method to Build a Super Awesome Team Immediately" approach to the draft.

Definitely helps when you have 2 HOF QB's for 20+ years, can hit on WR's in the second round and your OL in mid rounds. Hell, because of that success with the OL, I'm not even sure I want to see them spend any of their first 4 picks on it.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

I think Hockenson's shot at being there is a lot better than slim.

Also, you have to worry about all players busting. None are immune.

If they decide to take Jonah Williams or Andre Dillard, that would be great. OT's are premium, hard to find, expensive, and these two are good.

If they decide to take Devin Bush because this LB class basically has two real dudes, that would be ok.

If they decide to take a 3T and it's Christian Willins, not Oliver, I think that's fine.

I appreciate your post, but it gives me no comfort.

I hope you are right that Hock has a better than slim shot of being there. Tell all the teams ahead of us that love him that. Make sure you tell Detroit twice.

You have your opinions on players and I have mine. Let's pray Gute knows more than us and he hits on all 3 picks at #12, #30, and # 44.

No one will know for sure for 2 years how this draft class will be remembered , yet I'm sure we all will bicker about it for at least those 2 years.

 

[brandon2348]

Well the logical answer to your question is that they'd pass on him for someone they like better.

I love Hockenson. I'm down to take him at 12. But if they pass for a great OL prospect or someone like Ed Oliver, I don't think that's crazy.

Seems like for a lot of people, Hockenson is either the only option in their mind or he isn't worth drafting at all. Both are weird.

Your new name should be "PIPE DREAM DANTE"

There not taking Hockenson at 12 so get over it. They have three TE's under contract and Tonyan has just as good a chance to develop and be great as Hockenson does.

Tonyan actually has the speed to stretch the seam.

WE DON'T F***** NEED HOCKENSON. IT'S JUST INSANE. I CAN'T TAKE THIS NO MORE. IT'S JUST RIDICULOUS

ANOTHER FAIRY TALE THREAD AND CHASING UNICORNS BY "DANTE"

 

[brandon2348]

Ertz: 40 time: 4.76, 3-cone 7.08 (fastest 3-cone for his position at the combine that year).

Hock: 40: 4.70 and 3-cone: 7.02.

WE DONT NEED A TE RIGHT NOW. MAYBE IF HE DROPPED TO THE SECOND ROUND.

GUTE has showed his hand that were in win now mode. Too many other pressing needs ton WIN NOW.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just read TJ Hockenson and his Fiancee were in Green Bay shopping for homes today.

 

[brandon2348]

It's weird that they've had any success at all, just totally ignoring the "Brandon/Millen Method to Build a Super Awesome Team Immediately" approach to the draft.

What about the "Dante Defensive PIPE DREAM" approach.

You were bandstanding to get Amos to help out on the back end and now you NEED MORE and want a free safety and bring Amos in the box for 9 million. INSANITY!

Then you want to spend even more draft capital on more FINESSE PLAYERS on defense.

Your INSANE and addictive approach on defense is EXACTYLY why the Packers are a losing football team.

 

[brandon2348]

Just read TJ Hockenson and his Fiancee were in Green Bay shopping for homes today.

FAKE NEWS!

If the Packers had any interest in taking Hockenson at 12 then they would of cut Graham.

YOU DON'T DRAFT GUY'S WITH THE 12TH PICK TO SIT ON THE BENCH AND DEVELOP! PERIOD! Unless maybe there a QB.

This is just pure fantasy land! Cant wait until it's over which is coming up.

 

[brandon2348]

This thread should be called "FINESSE SAFTIES THAT CAN'T TACKLE AND A SLOW TE(17 REPS)"

 

[GreenNGold_81]

WE DONT NEED A TE RIGHT NOW. MAYBE IF HE DROPPED TO THE SECOND ROUND.

GUTE has showed his hand that were in win now mode. Too many other pressing needs ton WIN NOW.

I agree.

But your characterization of Hock is incorrect. He's a legit prospect who's more athletic than Ertz (one of the top TE's in the league).

I've been vocal about there being better value later, but I won't destroy my TV if they take Hock.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree.

But your characterization of Hock is incorrect. He's a legit prospect who's more athletic than Ertz (one of the top TE's in the league).

I've been vocal about there being better value later, but I won't destroy my TV if they take Hock.

I might have to retire everything with the Packers if they draft him at 12. It would be crystal clear these guys dont know what the hell they are doing and I will be out.

I'm not gonna play along with anymore INSANITY if they go that route. I have other things I can do other then watch a LOSING football team because the front office has there head up there ***.