What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
I’ve tried to like Thornhill because he does have amazing coverage skills but I can’t get over his tackling. It’s almost like he avoids contact. He’d rather dive at players feet or drag them to the ground than deliver a clean hit. IMO we need a more physical safety that loves to hit.

That's interesting. That's not been my impression of him. This thread is pretty informative:

https://twitter.com/eric_crocker/status/1110039993311850496
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
I'm still trying to flesh out my feelings towards drafting Hock at 12 so please bear with me if this is confusing.


I like the idea of a stud TE and if Hock is the man at 12 I am fine with it too but part of me hopes he is gone. First of all if he is there and we pass and he is as good as so many think he is we will all be saying I told you so. If we take him and he doesn't live up to the hype there will always be a huge feeling of disappointment in who we could have had. I know that is the case with pretty much anyone we pick but I think Hock has more elite comparisons than maybe anyone in the draft. I hate can't miss guys because sometimes they miss.

So why do I hope he is gone by the time we pick at 12. I almost get the feeling that he is too good to be true so I am kind of hoping someone else makes takes him and takes the decision out of our hands. If it is a mistake then we can thank our lucky stars and if he is all that ...well, we would have taken him but he was gone. Again, you can say that about pretty much anyone but me wanting the Packers to finally have a stud TE, that one that Finley never quite turned out to be, kind of worries me with a prospect like this.

I wish I could simply say take him he will be an elite TE but I just can't shake this feeling I have. Its not really anything against Hockenson that has me feeling this way it just that the Packers finally drafting this high and getting a stud player has me wondering of we can get that lucky.

I just don't feel that way with any of the other players that people have been proposing. Maybe its because although I do think TE is a need its not as big a need as some other positions so I feel if we do take him there is even more pressure for the pick top be a home run so its not deemed a wasted pick.


I feel the same. I watch his tape and think “damn, what an amazing weapon he would be.” Then I think about what we would be passing up if Oliver or White were there. Like you, I hope he’s taken earlier so one of the other two are pushed down and we wouldn’t have to make that call.
 

McKnowledge

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 29, 2015
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
272
Oliver is appealing, but with his pro day and with several teams at the top of the draft, I think he'll be gone before the Packers pick at 12th and he won't fall to 30th. I think T.J. Hockenson is actually worthy of the 12th pick in the draft.

Usually, I would not suggest selecting a TE in the first round, but his receiving skills along with elite run blocking is too good to pass up. Hockenson would open things up for both the running and passing game, allowing Jimmy Graham to work the seams and actually play up to his contract.

A safety can be had in the later rounds, same for an O-lineman.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
Watch the videos again. He’s quick to the ball but those feet dives and drag down tackles won’t work at the next level. Bigger and stronger backs will shake him off.

They won't? Lots of guys go low or drag down in the league. But I think he demonstrates some great fundamental tackling at times too.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
They won't? Lots of guys go low or drag down in the league. But I think he demonstrates some great fundamental tackling at times too.

Did you watch him get man handled and not able to get off blocks? Maybe it’s just me but hes not physical enough to play in the box. Watch 2 minutes of Rapp and Adderley and There’s no doubt they love to hit. Thornhill is fine if we are looking for a FS but we aren’t . We need a safety that can play smash mouth football in the box and cover.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
Did you watch him get man handled and not able to get off blocks? Maybe it’s just me but hes not physical enough to play in the box. Watch 2 minutes of Rapp and Adderley and There’s no doubt they love to hit. Thornhill is fine if we are looking for a FS but we aren’t . We need a safety that can play smash mouth football in the box and cover.

Well, yeah he did purposefully include some clips of him getting blocked in order to give a full picture of him as a prospect. But I could find clips of every safety getting blocked. I pointed this out to illustrate that he can play low and make tackles. Coverage is his strength just like run defense is Rapp's.

I see a combo safety like Thornhill as a better fit than a guy like Rapp because I think that while Amos can do whatever you want him to, he's at his best playing low. So pair him with a guy who can also do whatever you want, but who is at his best playing high. They would complement each other.
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
Why would I do that? I love Hockenson. I've already said that it wouldn't shock me if he goes before our pick. But he's also a TE, and TE's have a tendency to slide.

Stand down man. We don't need another @brandon2348 shoving a pet prospect down everyone's throat.

Nope. Not wasting my time anymore with certain MENTAL MIDGETS.
 

Fat Dogs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
434
Reaction score
33
Well, yeah he did purposefully include some clips of him getting blocked in order to give a full picture of him as a prospect. But I could find clips of every safety getting blocked. I pointed this out to illustrate that he can play low and make tackles. Coverage is his strength just like run defense is Rapp's.

I see a combo safety like Thornhill as a better fit than a guy like Rapp because I think that while Amos can do whatever you want him to, he's at his best playing low. So pair him with a guy who can also do whatever you want, but who is at his best playing high. They would complement each other.

I respect your analysis but we are definitely on different pages and looking for different needs to fill. I love the versatility that Amos brings. He can play both roles extremely well, but covers ground like very few can and better suited for FS.
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
I respect your analysis but we are definitely on different pages and looking for different needs to fill. I love the versatility that Amos brings. He can play both roles extremely well, but covers ground like very few can and better suited for FS.

Yep, we are exactly backwards on this, lol.

Good talk though.
 

GleefulGary

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
5,014
Reaction score
507
I respect your analysis but we are definitely on different pages and looking for different needs to fill. I love the versatility that Amos brings. He can play both roles extremely well, but covers ground like very few can and better suited for FS.

Amos covers ground like very few can?

That is not how I would describe him. He's super solid in coverage, especially for a SS, but you really wouldn't want him in single high a lot.

I think he can play some FS in some schemes, but he's best as a very versatile SS.
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
Did you watch him get man handled and not able to get off blocks? Maybe it’s just me but hes not physical enough to play in the box. Watch 2 minutes of Rapp and Adderley and There’s no doubt they love to hit. Thornhill is fine if we are looking for a FS but we aren’t . We need a safety that can play smash mouth football in the box and cover.
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
Did you watch him get man handled and not able to get off blocks? Maybe it’s just me but hes not physical enough to play in the box. Watch 2 minutes of Rapp and Adderley and There’s no doubt they love to hit. Thornhill is fine if we are looking for a FS but we aren’t . We need a safety that can play smash mouth football in the box and cover.

Abram is better then all those *******. Rapp would be a wasted pick.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!
 

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,116
Reaction score
3,036
:roflmao:

It's almost as though Brandon gets on the board every night and thinks:

Ok... now how can I get myself taken even less seriously? How can I become more of a joke? Aha! Here's a way!
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
:roflmao:

It's almost as though Brandon gets on the board every night and thinks:

Ok... now how can I get myself taken even less seriously? How can I become more of a joke? Aha! Here's a way!

Yeah because the list of Sidney Jones, Buddah Baker and Kevin King has been so so impressive. All guys you thought would be AMAZING! :eek:

Some idiots will never learn. Stay the hell out of the Pac 12 on defense.
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
Hey, does everyone LOVE Josh Jones? I have a fantastic idea.

LET'S DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN WITH JUAN THORNHILL!

So much FUN. :eek:
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
We need to get tough, mean and nasty on defense to finish what Gute has done in free agency. We have to do this and still add speed. The players that should be targeted on defense.

DL. Christian Wilkins, Ed Oliver

LB Germaine Pratt

S Johnathan Abram, Mike Bell

This is my GOLD LIST heading into the draft.

We could probably get either Oliver or Wilkins and add Pratt and Bell which would be amazing.

We would stil have couple top picks at 30 and 2nd round to get

Parris Campbell

We would need to trade up with our 2nd rouund pick to get.

Chris Lindstrom.

If this happened we would immediately become serious SUPER BOWL CONTENDERS. They need to consolidate there 10 picks to 6-7. I'm tired of late round trash. Everyone keeps saying how late round picks can be amazing so somebody please show me one we have drafted recently? For all our late round picks we don't have **** but a bunch of JAGS. This team can't be built on JAG's anymore. Last year proved that.

NO MORE PUSSIE'S!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
15,877
Reaction score
6,809
In the last 20 years there have been just 3 TEs drafted inside the top 12 overall. Eric Ebron #10 Vernon Davis #6 (4.38X40 42” vertical)
and Kevin Winslow #6. That’s few and far between. Are we saying he’s better than them? The same as them?

I see Hock going to a team that runs the ball quite a bit. Last year we ranked 32 out of 32 in rushing attempts. We have to commit to running the ball to go that high for a blocking TE. That means we’d better get a running game going, that means we need another capable RB.
We also kept Mercedes who’s one of the better blocking TEs. Do we cover up Mercedes again and bench him 2 years in a row? This makes no sense to me whatsoever, we absolutely failed to utilize Mercedes in 2018 and it was mind boggling why we even paid him? Look at his snap count and pass attempts.. what a joke.
We have to build a system of related links in a chain.. not a bunch of individual but colorful puzzle pieces that don’t fit.
We either commit to run and draft another substantial RB by day 2.. or we should pass on Hockenson.
 
Last edited:

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
I’ve tried to like Thornhill because he does have amazing coverage skills but I can’t get over his tackling. It’s almost like he avoids contact. He’d rather dive at players feet or drag them to the ground than deliver a clean hit. IMO we need a more physical safety that loves to hit.

He can't play single high in NFl. He is a cover 3 zone safety.

He is another Josh Jones. Great combine with subpar instincts. Not a natural football player.

Plus he is a *****!
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
In the last 20 years there have been just 3 TEs drafted inside the top 12 overall. Eric Ebron #10 Vernon Davis #6 (4.38X40 42” vertical)
and Kevin Winslow #6. That’s few and far between. Are we saying he’s better than them? The same as them?

I see Hock going to a team that runs the ball quite a bit. Last year we ranked 32 out of 32 in rushing attempts. We have to commit to running the ball to go that high for a blocking TE. That means we’d better get a running game going, that means we need another capable RB.
We also kept Mercedes who’s one of the better blocking TEs. Do we cover up Mercedes again and bench him 2 years in a row? This makes no sense to me whatsoever, we absolutely failed to utilize Mercedes in 2018 and it was mind boggling why we even paid him? Look at his snap count and pass attempts.. what a joke.
We have to build a system of related links in a chain.. not a bunch of individual but colorful puzzle pieces that don’t fit.
We either commit to run and draft another substantial RB by day 2.. or we should pass on Hockenson.

Hockenson ran a 4.75 as one of his times. It's shocking to me people even have this slug going in the first round.
 

brandon2348

GO PACK GO!
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
5,342
Reaction score
339
In the last 20 years there have been just 3 TEs drafted inside the top 12 overall. Eric Ebron #10 Vernon Davis #6 (4.38X40 42” vertical)
and Kevin Winslow #6. That’s few and far between. Are we saying he’s better than them? The same as them?

I see Hock going to a team that runs the ball quite a bit. Last year we ranked 32 out of 32 in rushing attempts. We have to commit to running the ball to go that high for a blocking TE. That means we’d better get a running game going, that means we need another capable RB.
We also kept Mercedes who’s one of the better blocking TEs. Do we cover up Mercedes again and bench him 2 years in a row? This makes no sense to me whatsoever, we absolutely failed to utilize Mercedes in 2018 and it was mind boggling why we even paid him? Look at his snap count and pass attempts.. what a joke.
We have to build a system of related links in a chain.. not a bunch of individual but colorful puzzle pieces that don’t fit.
We either commit to run and draft another substantial RB by day 2.. or we should pass on Hockenson.

I agre wirh him going to a team that runs. I could see rhe Seahawks going after him. He would be worth a 1st round pick maybe in a Schottenheimer offense.
 

InGuteWeTrust

Banned
Banned
Joined
Mar 22, 2019
Messages
221
Reaction score
13
Did you watch him get man handled and not able to get off blocks? Maybe it’s just me but hes not physical enough to play in the box. Watch 2 minutes of Rapp and Adderley and There’s no doubt they love to hit. Thornhill is fine if we are looking for a FS but we aren’t . We need a safety that can play smash mouth football in the box and cover.
Amos has played both SS and FS. In his college and pro career he actually has played more FS. If Josh Jones could make a step up and play SS, Amos could be paired with Josh. Josh Jones though is probably best used as a LB type when the D is in nickel and dime.

My feeling is that Amos should play SS and that a true FS like Thornhill should be drafted to pair with Amos.

It's not known for sure where Pettine plans to play Amos, but if a FS is drafted then no doubt the safety taken should be Juan Thornhill. The best FS in the draft by far IMHO.
 
Top