What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

[InGuteWeTrust]

More smokescreens?

I see reports that the Packers met with CB Tim Harris at the Virginia pro day last week. I am sure Gute and his crew also were looking closely at Juan Thornhill while there.

Harris is more of a 3rd or 4th round target if at all for the Pack. Obviously Thornhill will be drafted by someone in rounds 1 or 2. Tim Harris is also a player that might be better fit at FS in the league.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How many snaps did Eddie Jackson take at FS last year? I'm not on PFF, so I'm just curious, because on film it definitely looks like Jackson played FS way more than Amos.

Jackson lined up at free safety on 652 plays for the Bears last season while Amos played there on 685 snaps.

The argument for taking Amos was that he could play FS so to hear people now want to make him a box ssfety is ridiculous.

In my opinion Amos will mostly line up at free safety for the Packers.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

More smokescreens?

I see reports that the Packers met with CB Tim Harris at the Virginia pro day last week. I am sure Gute and his crew also were looking closely at Juan Thornhill while there.

Harris is more of a 3rd or 4th round target if at all for the Pack. Obviously Thornhill will be drafted by someone in rounds 1 or 2. Tim Harris is also a player that might be better fit at FS in the league.

Smokescreens? Maybe....Smart GMs keep their cards close to the vest. Still, it's hardly a secret that Green Bay has a need at safety, among other places.

Interesting article here:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/29/packers-have-picks-in-the-drafts-sweet-spot-at-wr-and-s/

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Smokescreens? Maybe....Smart GMs keep their cards close to the vest. Still, it's hardly a secret that Green Bay has a need at safety, among other places.

Interesting article here:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/29/packers-have-picks-in-the-drafts-sweet-spot-at-wr-and-s/

I was actually referring to the Packers making it known they spoke to CB Tim Harris at Virginia's pro-day and no mention of S Juan Thornhill. Might have been by design.

 

[rodell330]

Pressuring the QB with defensive backs is more about play design and defensive approach than it is about the player's actual skill set.

The Packers obviously did most of their work addressing the pressure problem when they spent buco bucks on the Smith bros.

What the Packers need is a combo safety to play alongside Amos, preferably one whose strength complement the former.

They may well factor blitzing success in whatever prospect they target. But they should (and will, I'm sure) give a lot more weight to the primary responsibility: coverage.

I see Rapp as a dime LB type of player. I think he's a great run defender. You can send him after the QB. He can cover a little bit. But coverage is his weaker area, not his stronger one. So when I say that I don't think he's what the Packers need, that's what I mean.

Ok even tho I believe a coverage safety is a huge need there isn’t one that’s worth taking with the 12 pick. Just isn’t. If they are going to take BPA then Oliver is definitely a better option over Rapp and whatever safety they have rated high. If Hoekensen is there then you take him over Oliver because he’s the better player imo as far as immediate impact. I can easily see this as a situation where the Packers trading the #12 for a later pick (17-20) and probably getting an extra 2nd. Especially if they can acquire Eric Berry on a reasonable 1 or 2 yr deal. I say that because I don’t think they keep Jimmy Graham. I’m hearing a lot of speculation in regards to him and his contract.

 

[Dantés]

Ok even tho I believe a coverage safety is a huge need there isn’t one that’s worth taking with the 12 pick. Just isn’t. If they are going to take BPA then Oliver is definitely a better option over Rapp and whatever safety they have rated high. If Hoekensen is there then you take him over Oliver because he’s the better player imo as far as immediate impact. I can easily see this as a situation where the Packers trading the #12 for a later pick (17-20) and probably getting an extra 2nd. Especially if they can acquire Eric Berry on a reasonable 1 or 2 yr deal. I say that because I don’t think they keep Jimmy Graham. I’m hearing a lot of speculation in regards to him and his contract.

Correct... there isn't a safety in this class worth drafting at #12.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Ok even tho I believe a coverage safety is a huge need there isn’t one that’s worth taking with the 12 pick. Just isn’t. If they are going to take BPA then Oliver is definitely a better option over Rapp and whatever safety they have rated high. If Hoekensen is there then you take him over Oliver because he’s the better player imo as far as immediate impact. I can easily see this as a situation where the Packers trading the #12 for a later pick (17-20) and probably getting an extra 2nd. Especially if they can acquire Eric Berry on a reasonable 1 or 2 yr deal. I say that because I don’t think they keep Jimmy Graham. I’m hearing a lot of speculation in regards to him and his contract.

I have been one of the more open supporters of taking T.J. Hockenson at #12 and do agree that he will have some positive immediate impact, but to suggest he will have easily more immediate impact than Oliver is I think a bit much. I'd be doing cartwheels getting either Oliver or Hock at #12.

Keeping Jimmy Graham for one more year would only help in the development of Hockenson if the Packers do indeed draft him. Having that veteran presence in the TE room and on the field would be a huge aid to Hock. In LaFleur's offense I can see both on the field together a lot. You also don't want a rookie having the added pressure of having to perform at a high level from day 1 if he is the #1 guy at TE from the jump.

 

[brandon2348]

Ok even tho I believe a coverage safety is a huge need there isn’t one that’s worth taking with the 12 pick. Just isn’t. If they are going to take BPA then Oliver is definitely a better option over Rapp and whatever safety they have rated high. If Hoekensen is there then you take him over Oliver because he’s the better player imo as far as immediate impact. I can easily see this as a situation where the Packers trading the #12 for a later pick (17-20) and probably getting an extra 2nd. Especially if they can acquire Eric Berry on a reasonable 1 or 2 yr deal. I say that because I don’t think they keep Jimmy Graham. I’m hearing a lot of speculation in regards to him and his contract.

If they were gonna outright cut Graham they already would of done it to maximize savings.

Hockenson just isn't in the cards.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Especially if they can acquire Eric Berry on a reasonable 1 or 2 yr deal. I say that because I don’t think they keep Jimmy Graham. I’m hearing a lot of speculation in regards to him and his contract.

The Packers will definitely keep Graham as they paid him a $5 million roster bonus on March 15. They would only save $300K in cap space by moving on from him now while having $12.3 million of dead money counting against the cap.

With Berry having been injury-prone Gutekunst should pass on him even for a reasonable deal.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Here are the numbers for those of you that think Tyler Rapp can’t cover. His college resume boasts 300 plus snaps in the box, 500 plus snaps at slot corner, and 1200 plus at free safety. 413 snaps in coverage were charted last season. In those snaps he only allowed a 12.0 passer rating. In fact, according to PFF, he graded out higher in coverage last year than he did in the box. These stats speak volumes about his versatility because he’s considered to be the best tackler at the position. He has an extremely high football IQ that allows him to diagnose plays quickly so he’s always around the ball. He doesn’t miss tackles and hits like a truck. IMO this kid is the most versatile safety in the class and would be the perfect compliment to Amos.

 

[Fat Dogs]

Abram is better then all those *******. Rapp would be a wasted pick.

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I think your wrong about Rapp. I do love Abrams physicality but he does miss tackles. Your right about us needing some nastiness and I think that’s exactly what Abram brings. What he doesn’t bring is the ability to play FS and that wouldn’t make sense unless you think Amos will play exclusively at FS. His numbers suggest otherwise.

 

[brandon2348]

I think your wrong about Rapp. I do love Abrams physicality but he does miss tackles. Your right about us needing some nastiness and I think that’s exactly what Abram brings. What he doesn’t bring is the ability to play FS and that wouldn’t make sense unless you think Amos will play exclusively at FS. His numbers suggest otherwise.

You go get Abram and Germaine Pratt and either Wilkins or Oliver with the moves Gute has already made and the defense would be sick.

We'd be mean and nasty up the middle. Amos would be fine at FS because the front seven would be dominant. If King and Alexander can hold it down we'd be on the verge of being elite.

I'd be okay if they made all those moves to get those guys if they could also somehow sneak Campbell in.

 

[Fat Dogs]

You go get Abram and Germaine Pratt and either Wilkins or Oliver with the moves Gute has already made and the defense would be sick.

We'd be mean and nasty up the middle. Amos would be fine at FS because the front seven would be dominant. If King and Alexander can hold it down we'd be on the verge of being elite.

I'd be okay if they made all those moves to get those guys if they could also somehow sneak Campbell in.

I love love love the idea of adding either Oliver or Wilikins to our front seven. That pass rush would 100% allow Amos to play FS exclusively but why? He’s better in the box than Abram and it would take away another demention to our D. IMO Abram is a 4th round talent only because he’s limited to what he can do. I think he’ll get drafted somewhere in the third to a team that has a true FS and looking for a smash mouth defender to play at the line.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

I never said he was a GAME CHANGER!

I like him in the 4th round as a nice piece Pettine can scheme in. He can TACKLE. He has ball skills in the middle. I want guys that can TACKLE. Tired of seeing missed tackle after missed tackle and guy over pursuing because there PUSSIE'S and lack REAL FOOTBALL INSTINCTS.

I'll take him over Josh Jones clueless *** any day.

Brandon, please knock off with the ******* remark please ?......There, that's sorted

 

[brandon2348]

I love love love the idea of adding either Oliver or Wilikins to our front seven. That pass rush would 100% allow Amos to play FS exclusively but why? He’s better in the box than Abram and it would take away another demention to our D. IMO Abram is a 4th round talent only because he’s limited to what he can do. I think he’ll get drafted somewhere in the third to a team that has a true FS and looking for a smash mouth defender to play at the line.

Because your paying Amos 9 million so put him at FS. He has experience there and will be better then anybody we have had there in years. If the Pass Rush is legit Amos will be fine back there. I don't want some CLUELESS ROOKIE back there at a position that takes time to develop.

I explained what we need. We need one more DL like Oliver/Wilkins. One more LB like White/Pratt. One more physical safety like Abram/M. Bell.

You add 3 of those guys(one at each position) and the defense will rock.

What we dont need is anymore of these scheme FINESEE PLAYERS.

 

[brandon2348]

Brandon, please knock off with the ******* remark please ?......There, that's sorted

Okay

 

[brandon2348]

Brandon, please knock off with the ******* remark please ?......There, that's sorted

I'm just tired of these guys the Packers keep drafting on defense with all there little soft tissue injuries and there groins and hamstrings always hurting and they cant even tackle on top of that.

The fact that people want to keep drafting these types of guys just blows me away.

They need to get some more mean mo'foes or the defense will just stay the same.

 

[gbgary]

If they were gonna outright cut Graham they already would of done it to maximize savings.

Hockenson just isn't in the cards.

i've got that feeling too. i think they think they're fine at that position considering the unknown success rate of the new offense with the current personnel. do you see what i did there? lol

 

[Dantés]

Here are the numbers for those of you that think Tyler Rapp can’t cover. His college resume boasts 300 plus snaps in the box, 500 plus snaps at slot corner, and 1200 plus at free safety. 413 snaps in coverage were charted last season. In those snaps he only allowed a 12.0 passer rating. In fact, according to PFF, he graded out higher in coverage last year than he did in the box. These stats speak volumes about his versatility because he’s considered to be the best tackler at the position. He has an extremely high football IQ that allows him to diagnose plays quickly so he’s always around the ball. He doesn’t miss tackles and hits like a truck. IMO this kid is the most versatile safety in the class and would be the perfect compliment to Amos.

I made my assessment based on what he exceled at and struggled with when I watched him play. So where PFF had him lining up doesn't change much for me. In a SS role I think he can do some things in coverage, but he doesn't allow you to be multiple because you don't ever want him single high and you probably don't even want him playing deep half all that often. He doesn't have the range for it.

What I'm after are two safeties who can both do anything so that Pettine can be as multiple and unpredictable as he wants to be. I think that perfect fit in this class is Gardner-Johnson but would be fine with Thornhill.

 

[GleefulGary]

Rapp ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day.

He's not a FS. That should settle it.

 

[brandon2348]

I want the "PRATT ATTACK". IMO he is the Diamond In the Ruff in this draft.

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[brandon2348]

Rapp ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day.

He's not a FS. That should settle it.

Rapp should be nowhere near our roster for that matter.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Wait, have we not all come to my conclusion that Juan Thornhill is the pick at safety and #44 is where we should get him?

Jk. Like who you want for the Pack.

Just know that my selections will be the ones Gute picks.

 

[brandon2348]

Wait, have we not all come to my conclusion that Juan Thornhill is the pick at safety and #44 is where we should get him?

Jk. Like who you want for the Pack.

Just know that my selections will be the ones Gute picks.

Thornhill can't tackle. The word that I would use to describe him has been BANNED by moderator.

We don't need anymore of those. Weve had enough.

HARD PASS!

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Thornhill can't tackle. The word that I would use to describe him has been BANNED by moderator.

We don't need anymore of those. Weve had enough.

HARD PASS!

Thornhill has elite athleticism to excel at open-field tackling in wide-open space.

It's not that he can't tackle in the box, it is that he is mostly back being a bad *** in center-field.