The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Firethorn1001]

love has??

Nothing?


All You Need is Love . . .

 

[longtimefan]

Who is this

passer rating of 77.2 with 919 yards, 5 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 4 games as a rookie

 

[tynimiller]

More importantly than comparing Love to Rodgers' first year is just look at the two of them through eight games from this year vs last.....we literally are nearly even. Issue is play everywhere else has sucked more LOL

 

[Krabs]

Excuses to you… and a more complete evaluation of factors helping or hurting his cause to me.


I don’t think 9 starts is considered a long leash for a Starter. Really at any position, but especially on someone you drafted Day1 and waited 3 years to suit up.

My point is that he is going to get the entire season. There is no heat on the guy in terms of the backup breathing down his neck. There is no pressure in terms of being benched.

I’m surprised he’s that good. Most of you guys said he’s a Day 3 talent and he’s bested 10 NFL QB’s already? Just half way into year 1? Not too shabby actually, I didn’t realize he was that high.

Here are the guys that he is ahead of. Watson, M. Jones, Ridder, Fields, Pickett, D. Jones, Jimmy G., Tannehill, Z. Wilson, and B. Young. Not exactly the elite of the league. He's also behind Howell, Carr, Dobbs, Mayfield... Not exactly the elite of the league.

Yes I believe that. From a novice fans perspective.

I'm not exactly why you have to take shots at me for having my opinion. It's just a low ball thing to do. I'm just wanting to chat some football. I'm much more than a novice fan. I'm a die hard that reads and watches a lot of Packer material. Football is my hobby. I'm not sure why not liking Love somehow makes me less knowledgeable of a fan.

For every 1 starting QB that played lights out in his 1st season as a starter, I’ll give you 4 that didn’t. You don’t give up on your QB after 9 starts. That’s just not smart imo

As most Packer fans should understand, the QB position is the most important position in all of football. An argument could be made that it is the most important position in terms of team sports. QB play is huge when it comes to football. What I don't want is to have a guy that is just okay. Right now he is ranked 22nd in the league in QBR. Say he improves to 15th. That's not going to get it done. I don't think Love has it. Simple as that. From what I've seen he is inaccurate and can't throw the deep ball. This isn't just coming from me. MLF just said on the news he needs to improve his deep ball. Again, I don't want to waste seasons figuring out that Love is not a good QB.

 

[Krabs]

What I and lot of people said

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

I actually don't think our WR corp. is that bad. Watson, Doubs, Reed, and Wicks are not terrible WRs. When I was at the last game we saw from the stands that Watson was burning his guy and just not getting thrown to. I also am not sure we should be taking Brett Favre's word for it. Dude is pretty questionable when it comes to decision making.

 

[Krabs]

Who is this

passer rating of 77.2 with 919 yards, 5 touchdowns and 3 interceptions in 4 games as a rookie

Jordan Love is no Jalen Hurts.

 

[tynimiller]

Jordan Love is no Jalen Hurts.

And Jalen Hurts wasn't always who he is either.

 

[tynimiller]

I know everyone wants to, with reason or not, compare what Love and Rodgers both did/doing in their first year as the starter. One thing however is to consider more directly what is the play we are getting from QB now vs just a season ago:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

vs

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

The astonishing thing to me is one of the critiques I read often is how Love is not stretching the field, checking down far too much. His yards per completion is a lot stronger than Rodgers' was through the same rough eight games worth of a season last year. I truly would have NEVER bet money on that being the case.

I didn't track pressures per game and really should have so no way of knowing but sacks are close with Love just one more.

Truthfully speaking, even Love's numbers are not terrible. The INTs need to come down and I think will, but like I've said his completion percentage is really the only glaring issue, clean up his deep ball a touch and that number breaks 61/62% most likely...get some better play from WRs and OL and I suspect another point or two will be better.

Now the crazy thing is Rodgers second half in some ways was worse than his first half, and much more similar to what Jordan has done through eight:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Even if Love just duplicates his trends....he will end the year with: right around 60% completion percentage / 3650 yards / 26 TDs and 17 INTs - which truthfully speaking isn't a terribly bad year for a first year starter on one of the youngest most inexperienced teams in the NFL's past few decades.

Rodgers 2022 was 64.58% / 3695 yards / 26 TDs / 12 INTs

Love has no chance I bet with this roster and tendencies I see hitting the percentage of Rodgers, but there is a really good chance otherwise we will end the year with a very similar production from our QB.

 

[Krabs]

And Jalen Hurts wasn't always who he is either.

It's not even worth the comparison. Hurts went to Alabama and Oklahoma. He was the SEC player of the year. He was a Heisman finalist at Oklahoma. He had a much better resume and played against much better competition in college. They're not even in the same parking lot, let alone the same ballpark.

 

[Krabs]

I know everyone wants to, with reason or not, compare what Love and Rodgers both did/doing in their first year as the starter. One thing however is to consider more directly what is the play we are getting from QB now vs just a season ago:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

vs

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

The astonishing thing to me is one of the critiques I read often is how Love is not stretching the field, checking down far too much. His yards per completion is a lot stronger than Rodgers' was through the same rough eight games worth of a season last year. I truly would have NEVER bet money on that being the case.

I didn't track pressures per game and really should have so no way of knowing but sacks are close with Love just one more.

Truthfully speaking, even Love's numbers are not terrible. The INTs need to come down and I think will, but like I've said his completion percentage is really the only glaring issue, clean up his deep ball a touch and that number breaks 61/62% most likely...get some better play from WRs and OL and I suspect another point or two will be better.

Now the crazy thing is Rodgers second half in some ways was worse than his first half, and much more similar to what Jordan has done through eight:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Even if Love just duplicates his trends....he will end the year with: right around 60% completion percentage / 3650 yards / 26 TDs and 17 INTs - which truthfully speaking isn't a terribly bad year for a first year starter on one of the youngest most inexperienced teams in the NFL's past few decades.

Rodgers 2022 was 64.58% / 3695 yards / 26 TDs / 12 INTs

Love has no chance I bet with this roster and tendencies I see hitting the percentage of Rodgers, but there is a really good chance otherwise we will end the year with a very similar production from our QB.

The competition in the next four games is going to go up significantly. They will be much better defenses the Packers will be facing. It will be a good test for Love. If he comes out with the projected numbers that you it might sway me to be a believer. Here's hoping for the best. GPG!

 

[Team Ronny]

Defense, but if those are the only examples, we're in trouble.

Besides, the Bears lost, and Manning is a HOFer (even if his contributions in Denver were minimal). So the only legitimate example there is Dilfer - who is, not coincidentally, the guy everybody points to in cases like this.

Mark Rypien in Washington. Joe Flacco with Baltimore.

 

[gopkrs]

Both Rypien and Flacco, not to mention Nick Foles all came to the super bowl game to win and played lights out. A lot of times you can just throw out the "elite" QB as far as going to win the big one.

 

[tynimiller]

It's not even worth the comparison. Hurts went to Alabama and Oklahoma. He was the SEC player of the year. He was a Heisman finalist at Oklahoma. He had a much better resume and played against much better competition in college. They're not even in the same parking lot, let alone the same ballpark.

Krabs,

You're comparing one QB in the NFL in their first year vs another QB in the NFL in their first season.

You gotta realize how the past matters zero to performance when the feet hit the dirt. Josh Allen went Wyoming - big whoop. It can influence what you expect perhaps, but when feet hit the grass all that matters is what you do then.

Bringing up examples of QBs in the past that have had rough starts is merely to illustrate change happens and to be honest it happens quite often for first year starters. Love is honestly playing very similar to Rodgers from 2022 - surprisingly similar.

 

[tynimiller]

The competition in the next four games is going to go up significantly. They will be much better defenses the Packers will be facing. It will be a good test for Love. If he comes out with the projected numbers that you it might sway me to be a believer. Here's hoping for the best. GPG!

Personally I expect highs and lows to continue - it is the season and team we have.

 

[longtimefan]

Jordan Love is no Jalen Hurts.

And he wasn’t Jalen his 1st 2 seasons

 

[Krabs]

Mark Rypien in Washington. Joe Flacco with Baltimore.

Mark Rypien was a very accurate deep passer. Joe Flacco finished the postseason having completed 73-of-126 (57.9 percent) passes for 1,140 yards with 11 touchdowns and zero interceptions and was the Super Bowl MVP. Neither of these guys are a comparison to Love.

 

[Krabs]

Personally I expect highs and lows to continue - it is the season and team we have.

Yes, for sure. I don't see them winning any of those games. If Love steps it up and they win a couple that would go along way to getting his teammates to believe in him and build his confidence.

 

[tynimiller]

Yes, for sure. I don't see them winning any of those games. If Love steps it up and they win a couple that would go along way to getting his teammates to believe in him and build his confidence.

I have heard of no wavering by his teammates personally, even asked a few of my contacts if rumblings are directed at him...nope. Doesn't mean doubt isn't creeping into heads for sure, but it doesn't appear to be an issue atm.

 

[tynimiller]

I will say if someone said I had to predict...I say we do the following:

Win 3 of these 5 - NYG, CAR, TB, CHI, LAC

Likely lose these - PIT, KC, DET, MIN

 

[Magooch]

Bringing up examples of QBs in the past that have had rough starts is merely to illustrate change happens and to be honest it happens quite often for first year starters. Love is honestly playing very similar to Rodgers from 2022 - surprisingly similar.

Change does happen, to be sure, but at the same time these examples are by far the exception, not the rule.
Yes, change does happen “quite often” from year one to year two (or first year starting to second, as it were) but it is not at all often that we see a player go from a bottom third quarterback to an elite, franchise-cornerstone type of one. Statistically speaking it is extremely unlikely that Love (or ANY new QB) will ever develop into a Rodgers or Manning level one, even a Hurts or Lawrence type of guy. Simple math tells us that the majority will not even be above average (that is how “average” works, after all, lol).

So yes, it could happen, and I’m sure we are all hoping that’s the case, but pointing to guys like Josh Allen in his first year or Hurts or Lawrence or Rodgers or whoever and saying “it could happen for Love too” is not really any argument at all. For every QB who has a rough first season and goes on to become an all-pro MVP candidate, there are dozens upon dozens who amount to being average at best. That is simply the most common outcome.

Of course that is also not evidence to the contrary and in no way suggests that we should already be looking to move on or that Love is a guaranteed flop. Like I said we should all be hoping he ends up being one of the few “exceptions” rather than the “rule”. There’s nothing wrong with hoping for that, but when someone says something about Love struggling and our rebuttal is something like “well Peyton Manning threw a lot of interceptions his first year, what if he got cut?” or whatever… it’s not any argument whatsoever. Love’s development is absolutely 100% in no way influenced by any of those players and the simple math of it tells us that while it is technically *possible* he ends up developing that way it is not at all *probable*.

 

[Voyageur]

Our WRs aren't that bad. They have talent. Their problem is they lack experience, and don't run their routes correctly, or aren't being coached in a way that gets them on the same page as Love, when it comes to reading the defenses. My guess? Probably a little of both, inexperience by the receivers, and Love himself.

Adding to today's problems for Love, some horrible O-line play so far this year, and his need to get rid of the ball quicker. Then there's him possibly throwing the ball too soon, more often, to insure the rush doesn't get to him.

No matter what, we need to understand that the make-up of this year's team in no way resembles the quality of the team that Rodgers inherited.

I'm not overly pleased with his play, but I do understand it's not all on him. There's 10 more guys out there, and way too many of them are failing at crucial moments, and it's killing them on offense. It's also forcing our defense to defend a short field too often.

I'm not going to judge Love until they get the kinks worked out of their game.

 

[tynimiller]

Change does happen, to be sure, but at the same time these examples are by far the exception, not the rule.
Yes, change does happen “quite often” from year one to year two (or first year starting to second, as it were) but it is not at all often that we see a player go from a bottom third quarterback to an elite, franchise-cornerstone type of one. Statistically speaking it is extremely unlikely that Love (or ANY new QB) will ever develop into a Rodgers or Manning level one, even a Hurts or Lawrence type of guy. Simple math tells us that the majority will not even be above average (that is how “average” works, after all, lol).

So yes, it could happen, and I’m sure we are all hoping that’s the case, but pointing to guys like Josh Allen in his first year or Hurts or Lawrence or Rodgers or whoever and saying “it could happen for Love too” is not really any argument at all. For every QB who has a rough first season and goes on to become an all-pro MVP candidate, there are dozens upon dozens who amount to being average at best. That is simply the most common outcome.

Of course that is also not evidence to the contrary and in no way suggests that we should already be looking to move on or that Love is a guaranteed flop. Like I said we should all be hoping he ends up being one of the few “exceptions” rather than the “rule”. There’s nothing wrong with hoping for that, but when someone says something about Love struggling and our rebuttal is something like “well Peyton Manning threw a lot of interceptions his first year, what if he got cut?” or whatever… it’s not any argument whatsoever. Love’s development is absolutely 100% in no way influenced by any of those players and the simple math of it tells us that while it is technically *possible* he ends up developing that way it is not at all *probable*.

Jalen Hurts, Trevor Lawrence, Matthew Stafford, Josh Allen, Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, Kenny Pickett, Zach Wilson, Ryan Tannehill, Desmond Ridder, Justin Fields
11 total

All current guys starting for their NFL teams (well not Tannehill atm) that started either worse or similar to Jordan. A couple of these struggled for multiple years even. That a decently significant sample size without even going into the history of NFL and bringing up Manning or Elway for two that come to mind.

I cannot STRESS THIS ENOUGH, no one is saying he is going to turn into Lawrence or Hurts or Rodgers...but there is a LOT of good things Love is exhibiting and truthfully he ups his percentage a touch and controls his deep targets hair better there is VERY little more you can expect him to do as a first year starter with a roster of babies in experience.

 

[AmishMafia]

Can we stop with the comparisons and just say it like it is? Right now Love is ranked in 22nd in QBR in the NFL according to ESPN. He is ranked there due to his play. His PAA ranks 21st in the league at -3, meaning he is a below average QB. Regardless of the situation he is in and the comparisons made, his play has been bad.

I'm calling it like I see it and what the numbers say. I just don't want to waste more seasons figuring out that he isn't a Super Bowl caliber QB.

Rodgers had a QBR of 41.3 (-10.6 PAA) and was ranked 26th in the NFL last season


Love is currently at a QBR 42.9 (-3 PAA) and ranked 22nd. And he is doing that with less experienced receivers, a poorer OL, starting in only his first year, and missing his best RB for most of it.

We heard a lot of excuses for Rodgers and now some folks are refusing to cut any slack for a first year player who is playing better than a first ballot HOF player with 2 recent MVPs in a row - Rodgers.

 

[Krabs]

Realistically, there's not stats or comparisons of past players that's really going to tell us how Love will turn out. Yes, they have a young team. That's one of the huge get out of jail free cards that everyone is giving Love. It's a fair argument for his struggles. I'm just not as willing to give him a pass as others are. For me, it really has been about what I've seen in his play. To summarize, he's inaccurate and can't throw deep. MLF has also vocalized that he needs to get better at these fundamental flaws. With having the amount of time to sit and learn and work on his craft, I expected those attributes to be better honed. No QB is going to make every throw. However, when you have Watson burning a CB by a couple yards and Love can't put it in a catchable range, it's just bad.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Way underthrown and this is not the first time. It is habit on his deep balls. I'm judging him by what I see on the field. He had plenty of time in the pocket to make this pass. As is with everyone, I'm not wishing for failure here. I would love to see him succeed and the Packers be a contender. Again, I also don't want to waste the next couple of seasons on a QB who is just going to be middling. And the debate continues! GPG!

 

[Krabs]

Rodgers had a QBR of 41.3 (-10.6 PAA) and was ranked 26th in the NFL last season


Love is currently at a QBR 42.9 (-3 PAA) and ranked 22nd. And he is doing that with less experienced receivers, a poorer OL, starting in only his first year, and missing his best RB for most of it.

We heard a lot of excuses for Rodgers and now some folks are refusing to cut any slack for a first year player who is playing better than a first ballot HOF player with 2 recent MVPs in a row - Rodgers.

He's not a first year player @AmishMafia. He had 3 years to hone his craft. I think everyone knew Rodgers was checked out last season. Rodgers is gone. I'm discussing Jordan Love's play.