The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Spanky]

John Middlekauff says Love will not be the starting QB next year:

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[OldSchool101]

Yes I do put the blame on that int on Love. Reed had to wait for the ball to come to him. If the ball had been delivered on target he would have been walking into the end zone. I'll admit that I am judging the throws from what I saw the last 16 years before so maybe I am expecting too much but I am seeing far too many 50/50 type balls where proper ball placement would make a huge difference. When both the receiver and the DB get their hands on the ball at the same time there is a good chance we won't like the outcome. (Completion vs. incompletion or interception)

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@U.P. Packfan
I’m not an expert by any means, but I’m not a novice to Football. I’ve got more hours logged watching than some people have breathing. So I respectfully disagree. Reed was already slowing down to find the hole and he had clear Safety coverage over the top. A longer throw is an incompletion best case or possibly INT by the crossing Safety help.

These 5 catchable balls resulted in
0 catches. Btw the 20 yard strike on that sideline was caught. If he’s such a bad passer how did the WR catch it?? It was ruled in bounds and a +20 yard catch for a 1st Down. Instead it was reversed to a -10 because Walker left his post (almost gave up a sack that Jordan nicely dodged Walker was then seen was found running 10 yards past LOS all by himself and drew a flag.

The one inside the MN5 was a strike. Maybe Dutch because he didn’t lead him.. but 90% catchable. It was clearly dropped and in stride. It was an automatic 1st down from the MN3 worse case and potentially a TD. That was likely 7 points we lost there.

The Watson miss was Harrison draping on him before the ball arrives. Harrison makes contact before the ball even reaches him and #9 is being pulled backwards here That’s called Pass interference but sometimes it gets missed, so that’s fine. But let’s not pretend Love underthrows it either.

These aren’t even all the examples in just 1 game in missed opportunities that were not on Love. Yet they resulted in

Punt

-30 yard exchange. He caught a +20 and we went -10

-a dropped TD

- a dropped 1st down (Musgrave was clearly being held just zoom in.

- INT

All 5 were catchable passes but crushed Loves Numbers. Even then Love threw 60% which is respectable. What would it have been it 2 or 3 get caught?

 

[OldSchool101]

John Middlekauff says Love will not be the starting QB next year:

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Do you realize that over 65% of the league doesn’t get a second contract?
Big risk taker there!!

PS. He’s telling us all about the early to mid 90’s. He’s 38 years old. How old was he in 1993? You know my wife told me I should be a detective I think she meant it as a compliment. At least it sounded sincere!

 

[gopkrs]

Watch the All-22 film, you cannot just toss it deep or intermediate if the play call or design is for shorter...or no one is open elsewhere.

It's like you didn't read what I said. I said simply that he has to start throwing the long ball better. He has not been very accurate with that.

 

[rmontro]

Overall I think Love can be an average type NFL starting QB. Get a couple upgrades on OL and maybe one more weapon and allow these young guys to mature. I’m not sure he’s built for HOF like we’re used to. Average won’t work if we have a 22pts+ allowed per game Defense

Just the law of averages makes it unlikely we'll have a third straight HOF quarterback, as much as I'd like one. The next question is can we win a Super Bowl with an average type NFL QB?

 

[tynimiller]

It's like you didn't read what I said. I said simply that he has to start throwing the long ball better. He has not been very accurate with that.

I even went back and reread…you said he’s using a dump option too much.

 

[longtimefan]

The reason Aaron is a more appropriate comparison is that he also was not a rookie and had three years experience. Comparing it to true rookies like Peyton walking onto a 3-13 team with a new coach and starting five months out of college doesn't make sense. Love is stepping into a system he's been studying for 3 years under a very good head coach.

You can’t compare Aaron 1st starter to Love this year. You just can’t

last year with better wr group aaron had his worse ever stat season and he had an online that was better then now

this year it’s even a worse wr group and online

thats the closest comparison we have . Last year to this year .

I’ve done it already . but go back to last year threads and the majority won’t blame Aaron because the line sucked and the wr sucked

this year no one wants to use same reasoning . It’s baffling

 

[longtimefan]

Just the law of averages makes it unlikely we'll have a third straight HOF quarterback, as much as I'd like one. The next question is can we win a Super Bowl with an average type NFL QB?

Bucs did with Trent Dilfer

Denver with a bad Manning

Bears got there with freaking Rex Grossman

what is the common denominator there?

 

[milani]

You can’t compare Aaron 1st starter to Love this year. You just can’t

last year with better wr group aaron had his worse ever stat season and he had an online that was better then now

this year it’s even a worse wr group and online

thats the closest comparison we have . Last year to this year .

I’ve done it already . but go back to last year threads and the majority won’t blame Aaron because the line sucked and the wr sucked

this year no one wants to use same reasoning . It’s baffling

We all know the history of Rodgers since then. And I believe we concluded that Rodgers took over for a better Packer team on paper than Love has now. MLF had 3 super seasons with a HOF QB. Then it fell apart. MM was one play from the SB with a HOF QB and then had a 6-10 season.

 

[thequick12]

Not sure on Love there. If he throws deeper over the top it is probably incomplete but not intercepted. But how many Vikings were there when he the ball arrived? Was he throwing into coverage? Lazard probably makes that catch because of his height and strength.

He was throwing into coverage but its the NFL to be a great qb you have to throw into coverage. The throw over the top would of been incomplete but the throw where it was should have been caught. Love gave his guy a chance and eventually theyll start making those plays and everybody will say, " wow Loves so good now"

 

[shockerx]

Wow, Will Levis looks great for the Titans. Some really nice throws tonight. He is real.

 

[rmontro]

Bucs did with Trent Dilfer

Denver with a bad Manning

Bears got there with freaking Rex Grossman

what is the common denominator there?

Defense, but if those are the only examples, we're in trouble.

Besides, the Bears lost, and Manning is a HOFer (even if his contributions in Denver were minimal). So the only legitimate example there is Dilfer - who is, not coincidentally, the guy everybody points to in cases like this.

 

[milani]

Defense, but if those are the only examples, we're in trouble.

Besides, the Bears lost, and Manning is a HOFer (even if his contributions in Denver were minimal). So the only legitimate example there is Dilfer - who is, not coincidentally, the guy everybody points to in cases like this.

Grossman had his chance.

 

[Spanky]

Trent Dilfer is the exception who proves the rule.

There's a reason teams pay QB's absurd amounts of money. And there's a reason Jordan Love is not making absurd amounts of money.

 

[thequick12]

Yes I do put the blame on that int on Love. Reed had to wait for the ball to come to him. When both the receiver and the DB get their hands on the ball at the same time there is a good chance we won't like the outcome. (Completion vs. incompletion or interception)

Ok, just to be sure I went back and watched that play again...First of all if he throws it over Reeds head, it would of been a hospital ball. 21 was lined up for a kill shot if that was throw over the shoulder instead of back shoulder.

Secondly, the defender and Reed did not contact the ball at the same time. Reed got both his hands on the ball a split second before any part of the defender touched the ball. He let the ball get into his chest instead of snatching it with strong hands. Remember that Romeo Doubs td against the Bears? Thats the kind of attacking with the hands we should of seen from Reed on that play and had we, it would of been a big play, possibly game changing.

Thats 100% a drop by the reciever

 

[AmishMafia]

Just the law of averages makes it unlikely we'll have a third straight HOF quarterback, as much as I'd like one. The next question is can we win a Super Bowl with an average type NFL QB?

The law of statistics say that the odds of a player becoming a HOF player is independant of any previous QB. So if a HOF QB is a 1% chance, that is what it is for Love. What is the odds our or any other teams next 3 will be HOF? That is 1% to the 3rd power.

 

[Krabs]

Ultimately, it's been pretty proven that to be a Super Bowl contender a team needs a QB playing at a high level. The Ravens were a huge anomaly. They won something like 7 games in a row with just FGs. That's not a recipe that is going to win a lot of Super Bowls. I'd rather do it the proven way with a franchise QB. I don't think Love is the guy. I've been pretty ******* him, but in the same respect, I don't want to waste a couple seasons finding out what we already know. What I would say is that there is a slew of QBs I would not trade Love for: Purdy, Minshew, Mayfield, Carr, Dobbs, Howell, Wilson, Jones, Tannehill, Watson, Ridder, Garoppolo, Pickett, Jones, Wilson.

There's a couple guys that I would be on the fence about. I'd probably be okay with a straight up trade for Bryce Young and and Dak. I don't think they would take you to the promised land, but they are probably better. It probably would make sense to bring them on if they don't serve you the ultimate goal. I don't think I would be on board with Justin Fields either. He has proven to be pretty inaccurate and doesn't seem to have the ability to read a defense. I don't think I would be on board with a Geno Smith trade either.

Guys I would trade for: Stroud, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Lawrence, Goff, Hurts, Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Tua.

Obviously, this is all just talking points. It does help to put it into perspective though. Love is just kind of a middling dude. He's not going to be a franchise guy. However, there is a lot worse. I mean, the Packers have lost to them (Ridder). Stick the season out and then see where we are at. It's really all we can do. It's just what we do after that's important. I say bring in one of the big dogs from college and create a QB competition.

 

[Magooch]

Defense, but if those are the only examples, we're in trouble.

Besides, the Bears lost, and Manning is a HOFer (even if his contributions in Denver were minimal). So the only legitimate example there is Dilfer - who is, not coincidentally, the guy everybody points to in cases like this.

and of course consider also that this amounts to three examples in 23 years, the most recent of which was now nearly a decade ago.

The league today is more quarterback-driven than it ever has been. Even if winning the Super Bowl with an average quarterback and great defense used to be a possibility (albeit still a slim one) that seems next-to-impossible in today’s NFL. That is not a recipe for success in 2023 and beyond.

 

[gopkrs]

I even went back and reread…you said he’s using a dump option too much.

Yeah but you also commented about the long ball. Which he is not throwing very well and needs to imo. And I understand sometimes nobody is open and you have to dump it off. I just think he is using the dump off more than he has to. It is just a gut feeling but I believe it is his security blanket right now and possibly he is not really seeing the other receivers very well. You can say nobody is ever open on those plays. But I'm doubting that. He may need to get out of the pocket more.

 

[OldSchool101]

Just the law of averages makes it unlikely we'll have a third straight HOF quarterback, as much as I'd like one. The next question is can we win a Super Bowl with an average type NFL QB?

Yes. When MLF was selected by GB I remember reading about how robust that system was. Specifically that his scheme is NOT predicated on Superior or Elite QB play. Ideally you have a 49ers Defense, which we obviously. don’t. I’d rather have a top 5 Defense and top 12 Offense than the reverse. Remember 2014? It was basically a top #13 Defense playing above their heads.

Waiting for a HOF QB could take 15+years. How long have some teams been hunting for that.
There have been teams that have been very successful with that top 12 type, more efficient QB play. So yes

 

[OldSchool101]

Ultimately, it's been pretty proven that to be a Super Bowl contender a team needs a QB playing at a high level. The Ravens were a huge anomaly. They won something like 7 games in a row with just FGs. That's not a recipe that is going to win a lot of Super Bowls. I'd rather do it the proven way with a franchise QB. I don't think Love is the guy. I've been pretty ******* him, but in the same respect, I don't want to waste a couple seasons finding out what we already know. What I would say is that there is a slew of QBs I would not trade Love for: Purdy, Minshew, Mayfield, Carr, Dobbs, Howell, Wilson, Jones, Tannehill, Watson, Ridder, Garoppolo, Pickett, Jones, Wilson.

There's a couple guys that I would be on the fence about. I'd probably be okay with a straight up trade for Bryce Young and and Dak. I don't think they would take you to the promised land, but they are probably better. It probably would make sense to bring them on if they don't serve you the ultimate goal. I don't think I would be on board with Justin Fields either. He has proven to be pretty inaccurate and doesn't seem to have the ability to read a defense. I don't think I would be on board with a Geno Smith trade either.

Guys I would trade for: Stroud, Jackson, Stafford, Burrow, Lawrence, Goff, Hurts, Allen, Mahomes, Herbert and Tua.

Obviously, this is all just talking points. It does help to put it into perspective though. Love is just kind of a middling dude. He's not going to be a franchise guy. However, there is a lot worse. I mean, the Packers have lost to them (Ridder). Stick the season out and then see where we are at. It's really all we can do. It's just what we do after that's important. I say bring in one of the big dogs from college and create a QB competition.

People always say that but you if anyone should know that’s not imperative. You just suffered through THREE 13 Win seasons with a HOF QB. The other side is that There have been plenty of Elite QB’s who didn’t win a SB

I’m convinced it’s not only not necessary, but it’s imperative to have a proper balance of Defense to Offense.

I’d take a regular top 10-16 QB if you gave me a Bill Belichick for DC. I don’t care if that’s Jordan or whoever.

 

[tynimiller]

Yeah but you also commented about the long ball. Which he is not throwing very well and needs to imo. And I understand sometimes nobody is open and you have to dump it off. I just think he is using the dump off more than he has to. It is just a gut feeling but I believe it is his security blanket right now and possibly he is not really seeing the other receivers very well. You can say nobody is ever open on those plays. But I'm doubting that. He may need to get out of the pocket more.

I didn’t keep a written record but I only had five off hand where I clearly thought he missed a deeper open option that looked like his first or second read.

 

[Krabs]

People always say that but you if anyone should know that’s not imperative. You just suffered through THREE 13 Win seasons with a HOF QB. The other side is that There have been plenty of Elite QB’s who didn’t win a SB

I’m convinced it’s not only not necessary, but it’s imperative to have a proper balance of Defense to Offense.

I’d take a regular top 10-16 QB if you gave me a Bill Belichick for DC. I don’t care if that’s Jordan or whoever.

I don't think I can agree with this. Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, Foles, Brady, Manning, Brady, Wilson, Flacco, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger...

Foles and Flacco are probably the only QBs from the last 15 QBs that would be a top 10-16. The rest are tops of all time. I think there is a good case that a team needs a franchise QB to be successful. Now, I agree it is a team sport and it does need balance. I'll take a franchise QB all day before any defensive coordinator. That's just me though.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't think I can agree with this. Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, Mahomes, Brady, Foles, Brady, Manning, Brady, Wilson, Flacco, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger...

Foles and Flacco are probably the only QBs from the last 15 QBs that would be a top 10-16. The rest are tops of all time. I think there is a good case that a team needs a franchise QB to be successful. Now, I agree it is a team sport and it does need balance. I'll take a franchise QB all day before any defensive coordinator. That's just me though.

and when I look across those we see teams with great Defenses. How many of those SB’s were won with a Defense ranked outside the
top 16?
top 10?

Also. You cant claim to know any of those you named were HOF QB’s after 8 starts. So why should we all believe you if you say they weren’t going to be after 8 starts?

 

[tynimiller]

A solid top tier defense just needs a Alex Smith, Nick Foles, antique Mannin or Grossman to win…

A solid top tier offense still will do nothing if their defense is autrocious.