The Jordan Love Era Begins

[OldSchool101]

I'm also of the opinion that tying up a big chunk of money in a quarterback isn't as big an issue as others do.

In a 1 year scenario (in a vacuum) I’d agree on QB Salary not being a big problem at all. You can kick $5m-10M into the future and it’s nearly trivial in comparison to the impact of what a great QB can do for a team. That said. It’s not a requirement to pay a great QB league high contracts. I’ll repeat that again so you don’t think I fell off my rocker It’s not a requirement to pay a Top QB league high money.

Is Patrick Mahomes league high money? No

Have they been successful? Yes

KC had more SB’s inside Pats first 5 seasons than we’ve had since 1996
So while I agree you can’t exchange a Rookie QB for a tenured veteran over $40mil or whatnot. But you can go develop another QB while the tenured QB wears down some. Also having an instant strategy is always prudent so you don’t get in the Jets situation and have to beg for any hope possible.

They say GB doesn’t have leverage? The Jets current best QB option has 15 TD’s across 22 games. The Packers QB’s have 478 TD’s across like 233 games and a HOF QB and direct replacement QB.
So see, We both can agree QB’s are important. We have 2 QB’s while NY has one that struggling mightily. Who’s in better strength position??

By not having an adequate contingency plan NY will pay dearly both financially and in draft resources. It could make us eating $40.3Mil and hoarding extra draft picks appealing.

 

[mradtke66]

However, do you see Gute active to replace those guys? Not really. Why? Because of the unknown cap situation. The Packers have some uncertainty as to how this Rodgers thing is going to work out and guessing they got as cap flush as they could, to handle that and/or go bargain basement FA shopping after the draft to fill holes.

Again, I don't see the choice to retain or replace our losses, other than maybe Amos, tied to cap reasons. I'd predict the FO to look in the mirror today and expect a ceiling of last year: a game or two short of the playoffs. In that situation, the departure of Rodgers lets them reset. They have the freedom to trade up for a bluechip if he falls or down to load up for the future.

In short, no need to risk tying yourself to even mid-level FAs this year. Throw young, cheap talent at the problem, see what a Love-lead team looks like and start building around him this year and next. Take in new information and adjust.

 

[mradtke66]

In a 1 year scenario (in a vacuum) I’d agree on QB Salary not being a big problem at all. You can kick $5m-10M into the future and it’s nearly trivial in comparison to the impact of what a great QB can do for a team.

That said. It’s not a requirement to pay a great QB league high contracts. I’ll repeat that again so you don’t think I fell off my rocker
It’s not a requirement to pay a Top QB league high money.

Is Patrick Mahomes league high money? No

He’s every bit as good a QB (without splitting hairs) as Aaron Rodgers and could be argued even better today. Yet Pat makes $5M per year less than Aaron. But here’s the real Kicker, at the current rate of Rodgers increase in negotiated money, KC stands to save about $50Mil over the next 5 seasons. They get Mahomes, plus $50M!

Mahomes $450m contract will look small within 2-3 seasons. It’s already looking like an absolute steal.
By 2026 Pat’s number will be the impact of around $35Mil today in comparison. This is a QB who has Won 2 SB’s in 5 years compared to GB winning 2 SB’s in 30 years!

I guess I don't view the 5m/year or even 10m Earth Shattering. Is there a potential more-optimal use of that money? In many cases, yes, but it requires you to have a player or access to a player worth allocating that money towards.

With signing bonus tricks and other shenanigans, you can afford almost any player. It's more important to find those good players in the draft.

I also don't think having a super-star quarterback on his second or third contract makes it harder to retain your players. Hypothetically, if you had the no.1 quarterback in the league and he was only the 13th highest paid (so picked because 14th falls juuust under 30m/year), you'd still struggle. My Math is:

1. get good quarterback
2. win more games
3. draft later
4. drafting later means a lower chance of success
5. your roster gets older and no. 4 means you don't necessarily have younger players ascending into starting roles. (Not a perfect source, but as an example: https://www.catscratchreader.com/20...s-us-finding-pro-bowlers-regular-contributors)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With signing bonus tricks and other shenanigans, you can afford almost any player. It's more important to find those good players in the draft.

While I agree with you that this isn't the year for the Packers to over leverage themself, since this to me is a mini rebuild (you called it reset) year. However, I think you are missing the importance that the cap has on things, by what you said above. Yes, you CAN afford any player in a given year, but all those tricks and shenanigans you mentioned, have their consequences. Look at Bahk's contract next year for a reference. Do you really think the Packers are going to take a $40M+ cap hit on him in 2024? Why do you think the Packers found themselves up against the cap before the new league year started? All those cans that they have kicked in previous seasons. Besides Bahk and Rodgers, they need to start worrying about Clark ($27.5M in 2024) and Campbell ($14.4M in 2024).

I was happy to see the Packers start paying off those cans, by not resigning Amos, but I was also happy they didn't start kicking more by restructuring Rodgers, resigning Lazard and signing expensive Free agents. This is the year to begin to get cap healthy.

 

[Schultz]

There were a few variables in play this offseason, in regards to re-signing our own free agents. Those variables were, money, talent, the Rodgers trade and the direction the team is headed.

The decision to part ways with A-rod and put themselves into what I would term "mini-rebuild", made a lot of FA decisions easy. Players like Lazard, Tonyan, Amos, Crosby and maybe even Cobb would have been priorities for Gute, if Rodgers was kept. But would have required even more cans to be kicked down the road. Some might argue against Amos and Crosby and that could go either way, but break up his offense? Doubt it. I also think that possibly 1 of Reed or Lowery might of been in play. Not to mention Gute possibly wanting to dip into a high end FA or 2, to go all in on yet another SB run.

Parting ways with Rodgers, the cap crisis and a mini-rebuild made it pretty easy to let some if not most of those guys go. Talent or at the end of their career, yes, that too. However, do you see Gute active to replace those guys? Not really. Why? Because of the unknown cap situation. The Packers have some uncertainty as to how this Rodgers thing is going to work out and guessing they got as cap flush as they could, to handle that and/or go bargain basement FA shopping after the draft to fill holes.

I have brought this up before. I believe he hasn't replaced these guys because he is waiting until after the draft so that they keep their potential for compensatory picks viable. IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have brought this up before. I believe he hasn't replaced these guys because he is waiting until after the draft so that they keep their potential for compensatory picks viable. IMO.

Definitely a factor, I would agree. However, I think what happens with Rodgers as well as what they get in the draft has something to do with it too.

I think they only dole out 32 comp picks and the Packers have probably earned 3 so far. Lazard (4-5th round) and 2 6th rounders for Reed and Lowery. Tonyan might be worth a 7th, but I doubt his salary gets him into the 32 range. Amos being signed before the draft, might get them another 5th or 6th.

 

[mradtke66]

While I agree with you that this isn't the year for the Packers to over leverage themself, since this to me is a mini rebuild (you called it reset) year. However, I think you are missing the importance that the cap has on things, by what you said above. Yes, you CAN afford any player in a given year, but all those tricks and shenanigans you mentioned, have their consequences. Look at Bahk's contract next year for a reference. Do you really think the Packers are going to take a $40M+ cap hit on him in 2024? Why do you think the Packers found themselves up against the cap before the new league year started? All those cans that they have kicked in previous seasons. Besides Bahk and Rodgers, they need to start worrying about Clark ($27.5M in 2024) and Campbell ($14.4M in 2024).

I was happy to see the Packers start paying off those cans, by not resigning Amos, but I was also happy they didn't start kicking more by restructuring Rodgers, resigning Lazard and signing expensive Free agents. This is the year to begin to get cap healthy.

I don't see an issue with, as you said, kicking it down the road. Any signing bonus borrows from the future, that's how it works. That's how it always worked. It's only a problem if and when the cap figure exceeds the value. The big and scary is when later in the contract you can't get (adequate) cap relief by cutting them when the balance is out of whack. It is a consequence in terms of outcome, not a necessarily a consequence in terms of negative outcome.

Quite simply, I don't think our cap is actually unhealthy. Tight, perhaps, but not unhealthy.

Campbell doesn't have that weird of a cap hit. He's averaging 10M/year, which looks to be 11th in the league right now. 10/y vs. a single year 14M cap hit isn't out of line. I don't see an issue with that number. Single void year, but the void year is tiny, a mere 650k.

Clark is potentially a little high, he's averaging 17/y. Every other year of his contract has a cap hit of less than his average per year. He'll also be 30 in 2025, which is currently a void year. If he's still got it after 2024, re-sign him. If not, he's 30. Let the contract expire and its not a big deal.

Bhak currently has 2 years remaining. 2023 we're stuck with him, for good or ill. 2024, his number balloons. He'll also be 33 and this would be his 4th contract with the Packers. I would not be surprised to see him cut after this year. The only real way he stays is if he wants to retire here, he's still playing well, AND happily takes a 2-3 year deal w/o new bonus money to spread the bonus over another year or two. However, there aren't any "kick the can" tricks here. This was a standard contract, no void years.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Quite simply, I don't think our cap is actually unhealthy. Tight, perhaps, but not unhealthy.

Had things continued down the same path as the last three or so years, I totally disagree with you. They aren't just kicking "signing bonuses" down the road anymore, they are restructuring existing contracts, taking what was originally termed as salary and converting it to something they can kick down the road. Which is how they were getting by with Rodgers contract for so long. Much like a credit card, you can only keep pushing what you owe out into the future for so long and at some point, it has to be paid off (count against this years cap).

This year the Packers have $16,973,118 in Dead money counting against the cap. What is dead money? It is money counting towards the cap, from players that are no longer with the team. That number doesn't include Rodgers, add him to it and you will get the full picture.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess I don't view the 5m/year or even 10m Earth Shattering. Is there a potential more-optimal use of that money? In many cases, yes, but it requires you to have a player or access to a player worth allocating that money towards.

That’s exactly what we’re supposed to say. I don’t mean that n a derogatory sense. It’s a very common, but misconception.

It’s $5M difference today from a similar QB. Yet with a young QB you can get a year or two of next to nothing. Love is $23.6M across 2 seasons to see what we got. Rodgers is $100.6 across that same 2yr span.

What would $70Mil
+ several earlier draft selections get us? Potential shot at 2-3 good drafted players (call it a pair of 2nd Rounders etc.)

What could we get with that remaining $70mil in additional cap for Players monies through
2023-2024? Quite a lot actually.

QB, Jordan Love (1yr Rook + 5th yr)
TE, Darnell Washington (2yr Rook $)
DT, Mazi Smith (2yr Rook $)
S, Adrian Amos (2X10M)
WR, JuJu Smith (2X20mil)
DT, Fletcher Cox (2X18M)
RT, George Fant (2X16mil)
K, Mason Crosby (1X3M)
+3Mil reserve account (2023-24)

That’s what Aaron Rodgers costs us

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had to laugh a bit. Just saw that the Lions recently traded the 3rd player chosen in the 2020 draft, CB Jeff Okudah to the Falcons for a 5th round pick (#159). Here people are giving Gute grief for drafting Love.

 

[Schultz]

Definitely a factor, I would agree. However, I think what happens with Rodgers as well as what they get in the draft has something to do with it too.

I think they only dole out 32 comp picks and the Packers have probably earned 3 so far. Lazard (4-5th round) and 2 6th rounders for Reed and Lowery. Tonyan might be worth a 7th, but I doubt his salary gets him into the 32 range. Amos being signed before the draft, might get them another 5th or 6th.

The Moore signing may off-set one of those. IMO there is no way Tonyan gets one. Don't forget this new rule about coaches getting hired away receiving comp picks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Moore signing may off-set one of those. IMO there is no way Tonyan gets one. Don't forget this new rule about coaches getting hired away receiving comp picks.

To be honest, I still haven't figured out the Magic formula that they use to determine comp. picks, way beyond my pay grade. I know it has to do with their new salary compared to average income at the position, as well as % of snaps played and probably a 100 other things.

 

[tynimiller]

The Moore signing may off-set one of those. IMO there is no way Tonyan gets one. Don't forget this new rule about coaches getting hired away receiving comp picks.

The moore signing is nearly peanuts given its construction it is off setting nothing. Lazard will get us something absolutely. Lazard presently has the 14th highest AAV contract this off season of UFAs, Tonyan's is the borderline to likely nothing but if it does it will bottom of 7th level. Dean Lowry may get us a 6th or 7th. and Jarran Reed may get us similar.

For reference:

Lazard got
Lowry got 4.25M AAV
Tonyan got 2.65M AAV
Reed got 4.5M AAV

Last year MVS got $10M AAV (got us a 5th)
Patrick got $4M AAV - cancelled by our Reed signing
Sullivan got $1.75M AAV (7th)


If I were to bet right now Lazard gets us a 5th / Lowry and Reed possibly 6th / Tonyan maybe a 7th...but Moore will offset some of it possibly pushing him off.

Subject to change of course.

 

[OldSchool101]

Had to laugh a bit. Just saw that the Lions recently traded the 3rd player chosen in the 2020 draft, CB Jeff Okudah to the Falcons for a 5th round pick (#159). Here people are giving Gute grief for drafting Love.

Ouch. I wondered what was going to happen with him. I knew he had been banged up.
That makes our later 3rd Rounders; Sternberger and Burks, look like 1st Team and 2nd Team All-Pro selections

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He won back to back MVPs in the years in which he already had a great connection with his #1 receiver. He did not win MVP last season in which he had a bunch of new receivers.

I wonder if Rodgers suffering a broken thumb or the lack of talent at wide receiver had something to do with it. Nah, it was all because of him not showing up for OTAs

Depends on which season we are talking about.

Please tell me which playoff exit was Rodgers the one mainly responsible for?

Some posters would want you to think that an MVP automatically raises a player up to a level where they can do no wrong, as well as above any sort of criticism. It becomes part of their catch all phrase of "But...but....he won back to back MVP's you are wrong."

Rodgers winning the MVP doesn't mean he's above criticism. It would be completely unrealistic to expect him to play any better as he performed at a higher level than any other player in the league though.

What you are missing in your assumption, is the fact that MLF obviously didn't think Love was better than Rodgers in 2022, but more importantly, nor have I seen any poster try to imply that. All LTF's source was saying, was that the Packers feel that Love is the real deal and they are excited to have him as their starter, something they probably never would have seen, had Rodgers been on the team in 2023.

If the Packers coaching staff was convinced that Love was the real deal they should have played him instead of Rodgers with him having suffered a broken thumb.

Why do some fans not understand that this isn't just about the present, but more about the future? The Packers went 8-9 last season with a 38 year old QB, that is one darkness retreat away from retiring and oh yeah, he costs the Packers $50+ M per year. The number of players the Packers had to let walk in Free Agency, as well as more cans being kicked forward just to hang on to a few, should tell you where things would have continued to head, if Rodgers remained. It was time to jump off the carousel.

Once again, I agree that it's time to move on from Rodgers, mainly because of the stupid extension Gutekunst signed him to last year.

However, do you see Gute active to replace those guys? Not really. Why? Because of the unknown cap situation. The Packers have some uncertainty as to how this Rodgers thing is going to work out and guessing they got as cap flush as they could, to handle that and/or go bargain basement FA shopping after the draft to fill holes.

There is no uncertainty on the cap implication of trading Rodgers though.

It’s not a requirement to pay a great QB league high contracts. I’ll repeat that again so you don’t think I fell off my rocker It’s not a requirement to pay a Top QB league high money.

Is Patrick Mahomes league high money? No

Have they been successful? Yes

The top quarterbacks in the league all make pretty much the same money on a yearly average. It's not gonna happen that one of them agrees to a significant discount. Mostly the one who is the highest paid was the last one of them who agreed to a new contract.

This year the Packers have $16,973,118 in Dead money counting against the cap. What is dead money? It is money counting towards the cap, from players that are no longer with the team. That number doesn't include Rodgers, add him to it and you will get the full picture.

There are currently 17 teams which have more dead money counting against the cap than the Packers. Doesn't seem to be a huge issue for the team.

It’s $5M difference today from a similar QB. Yet with a young QB you can get a year or two of next to nothing. Love is $23.6M across 2 seasons to see what we got. Rodgers is $100.6 across that same 2yr span.

What would $70Mil
+ several earlier draft selections get us? Potential shot at 2-3 good drafted players (call it a pair of 2nd Rounders etc.)

What could we get with that remaining $70mil in additional cap for Players monies through
2023-2024? Quite a lot actually.

QB, Jordan Love (1yr Rook + 5th yr)
TE, Darnell Washington (2yr Rook $)
DT, Mazi Smith (2yr Rook $)
S, Adrian Amos (2X10M)
WR, JuJu Smith (2X20mil)
DT, Fletcher Cox (2X18M)
RT, George Fant (2X16mil)
K, Mason Crosby (1X3M)
+3Mil reserve account (2023-24)

That’s what Aaron Rodgers costs us

As I have mentioned repeatedly teams hugely benefit from having a good quarterback playing on his rookie deal. The Packers all but lost that chance by having their replacement for Rodgers sit on the bench for three years. If Love ends up being a decent starter his first year starting will be the only one in which his contract would allow the Packers to take advantage of. Which actually won't happen anyway as Rodgers will still account for $40 million counting against their cap.

 

[longtimefan]

My gosh, the nonsensical back and forth - is this what this place has denegrated to in the absence of my calming wisdom and insightful football knowledge?

All right, here we go:

OTAs also go over new wrinkles/additions to the offense/defensive schemes.
Rodgers can pick it up quickly - but his participation in the meetings would be huge helping the newbies understand and, as he will be leading the offense on the field, getting on the same page.
There is no doubt the last few years the offense is way out of sync the first few games.
I dont recall ever hearing or seeing him work out in the offseason with teammates. In a world where everyone has a video recording device and the opportunity to publish things to the world instantly - you would think we would have seen some of it.
Rodgers does work very hard and comes to camp in shape - but those are physical conditioning workouts with a trainer.

Other QBs will get several receivers and run patterns. We all saw what years of Rodgers throwing to Adams did for their connection. Had he worked on it more with other young receivers, who knows where our offense would be.

Don't underestimate the importance of leadership.

Little old but relative to your claim of what happens and what goes on from a players perspective.. since no one here really knows what otas are for let’s look at what a player says shall we?

An Insider's Guide to NFL OTAs

As the NFL offseason rolls along, 29 teams will begin organized team activities (OTAs) this week. During this time, most, if not all, established veterans who are off doing their ...

syndication.bleacherreport.com

typical day of OTAs begins early with morning meetings that start around 7:30 a.m. These meetings are with position coaches and involve playbook installation and possibly film review from practices from the day before.

With limited time both on the field and in the classroom, coaches must stick to the core plays and formations that make up the meat and potatoes of their scheme. The idea is to have a complete understanding of the system basics before adding more to the plate.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Little old but relative to your claim of what happens and what goes on from a players perspective.. since no one here really knows what it’s are for let’s look at what a player says shall we?

Sounds just like a company picnic and a complete waste of time for anyone to attend, even the coaches. No opportunities to bond with new and old teammates, establish leadership, teach and learn.

That 5 month long season is a lot to ask from any worker, the NFL should shut down after the Super Bowl and not start up again until a week before the first game.

Now I feel really bad for these guys, they probably have to squeeze vacations in between games. I wonder how many of them end of having to work part time jobs, just to make ends meet. To think that some of them have to go through these grueling work years until they are well into their 30's, before they can even think about retirement. I totally get why a few players just can't take time out of their hectic lives to attend these.

 

[Schultz]

The moore signing is nearly peanuts given its construction it is off setting nothing. Lazard will get us something absolutely. Lazard presently has the 14th highest AAV contract this off season of UFAs, Tonyan's is the borderline to likely nothing but if it does it will bottom of 7th level. Dean Lowry may get us a 6th or 7th. and Jarran Reed may get us similar.

For reference:

Lazard got
Lowry got 4.25M AAV
Tonyan got 2.65M AAV
Reed got 4.5M AAV

Last year MVS got $10M AAV (got us a 5th)
Patrick got $4M AAV - cancelled by our Reed signing
Sullivan got $1.75M AAV (7th)


If I were to bet right now Lazard gets us a 5th / Lowry and Reed possibly 6th / Tonyan maybe a 7th...but Moore will offset some of it possibly pushing him off.

Subject to change of course.

Make up my mind. You start out by saying Moore will off set nothing , and finish with Moore will off set some of it possibly. The key to Moore is if he plays a ton of snaps as that is also part of the formula.

 

[Mondio]

First, we've all said repeatedly for who, and why it's important. Longtime's linked article and quote seem to say exactly what I have been. Its' basic offense for new guys. Learn to crawl before walking and running.

and 2nd nobody ever said shut it down until a week before the season, mandatory camps and training camp, once new guys are acclimated and able to function in the basics it's time to get to work.

 

[OldSchool101]

The top quarterbacks in the league all make pretty much the same money on a yearly average. It's not gonna happen that one of them agrees to a significant discount.

Brady
Mahomes

How do you feel about that list I put up with all the players we can sign with Rodgers typical $$ across 2 seasons and garnering two 2nd rounders. I added Crosby because I knew how excited you’d be. Lol

QB, Jordan Love (1yr Rook + 5th yr)
TE, Darnell Washington (2yr Rook $)
DT, Mazi Smith (2yr Rook $)
S, Adrian Amos (2X10M)
WR, JuJu Smith (2X20mil)
DT, Fletcher Cox (2X18M)
RT, George Fant (2X16mil)
K, Mason Crosby (1X3M)
+3Mil reserve account (2023-24)

 

[AmishMafia]

I expect them to teach you how this team huddles up, how the break the huddle, real basic stuff. Names of groupings and formations. No matter how long you've been in the league, everyone has basic differences.

First, we've all said repeatedly for who, and why it's important. Longtime's linked article and quote seem to say exactly what I have been. Its' basic offense for new guys. Learn to crawl before walking and running.

Not sure folks knew there was scheme and playbook taught. Some thought proper huddle techniques was the level covered. Not trying to pick on Mradtke, there are others apparently thinking the same.

I think all realize Rodgers doesn't need to learn the scheme. But that isn't the point. The article does say they do go through the play book. I think it is safe to assume there will be new plays and even tweaks to the scheme on a yearly basis. And I believe these minor things Aaron could learn - and probably pick them up quickly.

But the big thing, for many I think, is that the starting QB being involved in this process would be very beneficial to the young players. And i am certain there is a certain poster who read that sentence and planned his response to say, that is what they have coaches for. But the display of leadership, and just being helpful, would make a significant difference in team chemistry. The difference in winning and losing is a smaller margin than most fans realize.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure folks knew there was scheme and playbook taught. Some thought proper huddle techniques was the level covered. Not trying to pick on Mradtke, there are others apparently thinking the same.

I think all realize Rodgers doesn't need to learn the scheme. But that isn't the point. The article does say they do go through the play book. I think it is safe to assume there will be new plays and even tweaks to the scheme on a yearly basis. And I believe these minor things Aaron could learn - and probably pick them up quickly.

But the big thing, for many I think, is that the starting QB being involved in this process would be very beneficial to the young players. And i am certain there is a certain poster who read that sentence and planned his response to say, that is what they have coaches for. But the display of leadership, and just being helpful, would make a significant difference in team chemistry. The difference in winning and losing is a smaller margin than most fans realize.

Spot on.

I will say it again, because skipping OTA's is so much like other things that Rodgers apologists blabber about. This isn't JUST about Aaron Fricking Rodgers and what is best for him. It is what is best for the team. Those who can't see that, are most likely the same people that do very little extra in life for others, they only measure how things will effect them personally. Those people feel threatened when someone else is being called out for their selfishness and immediately, they feel the need to go on the defense of said person. This doesn't just happen in football, sadly it seems to be the lifestyle of many lately.

 

[Mondio]

anybody else tired of the constant attacks against posters that see anything differently? How can some of us have 4,5, 10 exchanges on a topic we are polar ends of the spectrum on and keep it on topic and not take personal shots, but someone has to come in with their psycho analysis at almost every opportunity to dismiss, denigrate, and demean anybody who sees it differently?

anyway, yes leadership is important. But again, it seems from what I see mostly is people outside of the locker room have more issue with the leadership than the people that are in, or have been in there. Old guys like Cobb and David to young and not on the team like MVS, long gone like Johnny Jolly and current young stars like Watson. and besides those words, I look at what happens. Last year they were down, they were "out" the pundits and fans a like were jumping ship like crazy. Dump Rodgers, put in Love, now is the time, this team is done. and they rallied behind their leaders again. nobody quit, nobody cashed it in, nobody started bad mouthing anybody. There was a lack of plays made, but I don't think this team lacked leadership. OTA's aren't the only place it's displayed, or earned.

 

[AmishMafia]

anybody else tired of the constant attacks against posters that see anything differently? How can some of us have 4,5, 10 exchanges on a topic we are polar ends of the spectrum on and keep it on topic and not take personal shots, but someone has to come in with their psycho analysis at almost every opportunity to dismiss, denigrate, and demean anybody who sees it differently?

anyway, yes leadership is important. But again, it seems from what I see mostly is people outside of the locker room have more issue with the leadership than the people that are in, or have been in there. Old guys like Cobb and David to young and not on the team like MVS, long gone like Johnny Jolly and current young stars like Watson. and besides those words, I look at what happens. Last year they were down, they were "out" the pundits and fans a like were jumping ship like crazy. Dump Rodgers, put in Love, now is the time, this team is done. and they rallied behind their leaders again. nobody quit, nobody cashed it in, nobody started bad mouthing anybody. There was a lack of plays made, but I don't think this team lacked leadership. OTA's aren't the only place it's displayed, or earned.

Yeah, neither of us have ever been in an NFL lockerroom, so we are both supposing. Using our own life experiences to imagine a situation will often lead to dissimilar conclusions.

My favorite Mohammed Ali quote, "I may not know what I'm talking about, but I know I'm right."

Anyway, can't wait for the season to get here or at least the draft and we can talk about something different. But who am I kidding, the Rodgers discussion will last at least 3 years or until Love wins us a SB.

 

[Mondio]

I pretty much wait until after the draft to get into the draft. I don't know enough about these guys to do anything more than take a wild guess as to what is going to happen draft day. I always like to see who we get first, then go learn about them before I take my wild guesses and talk about them.

and people still talk about Favre and Rodgers, this isn't going away anytime soon LOL