The Jordan Love Era Begins

[thequick12]

@Mondio has been spot on with this stuff @Pokerbrat2000

NFL teams are for profit, they would not invest the money in players if they weren't making a lot more because of that investment

It works the same for an average joe at basically any job. The owner pays the employee an amount that is a lot less than what they make off that employees work. Its kind of a basic buisness principle

You cant buy something then sell it for the same amount you paid or less and run a successful buisness

I think @Dantés said it, it's common sense

 

[tynimiller]

If the Packers suck for 10 years...that waiting list will quickly evaporate because most people wont want to pay the price for those tickets

I 1,000% would bet otherwise. This fan base is a lot like the Cubs, regardless we show.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I 1,000% would bet otherwise. This fan base is a lot like the Cubs, regardless we show.

Yep. When my parents were on the list in the horrific 70's and 80's, they moved up less than 20 slots.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

@Mondio has been spot on with this stuff @Pokerbrat2000

NFL teams are for profit, they would not invest the money in players if they weren't making a lot more because of that investment

It works the same for an average joe at basically any job. The owner pays the employee an amount that is a lot less than what they make off that employees work. Its kind of a basic buisness principle

You cant buy something then sell it for the same amount you paid or less and run a successful buisness

I think @Dantés said it, it's common sense

You said if I googled it, it would be easy to find. I did, can't find anything to support your theory. What FACTS did you find to support your theory.

LOL....on your "business theory". First, the NFL is unlike most businesses. Second, even if it was, I highly doubt that the CEO of a business, that is making an 8 figure income, is actually generating that share of the income. You do understand how worker bees operate right? Do you think the guy getting paid $7/hr at McDonalds is only helping to generate that much income?

Using your theory, without Rodgers, the Packers should expect to lose over $50M in income this coming season. Are you a betting man?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The NFL as a whole really took off in the 80s. Packers became a powerhouse in the 90s with Brett and Reggie coming to town. The timing was good to cultivate Packer fans around the world which has contributed, as you say, to the Packer bottom line.

So did many major pro and college sports as well. Winning might help some stadiums to keep people in the seats, but that really has never been a problem in Green Bay. The Packers have consistently been raising their ticket prices, along with the rest of the teams in the NFL. The enormous media contract that all 32 teams divvy up, has nothing directly to do with Aaron Rodgers success, nor the success of the Packers. Sure, all the players on the Packers contribute to the success or failure of the team, but with our without each individual player, the team goes on. For someone to try and say that Rodgers brought in more than $50M in revenue for the Packers in 2022, is someone who is viewing things with big blinders on.

 

[Schultz]

Aaron Rodgers had a positive impact on the Packer income in 3 ways: away games people wanting to see him play; sales of AR jerseys/memorabilia; and sales of all memorabilia because of success. I doubt these boosts of revenue came close to his salary.


Although vilified by some, Mark Murphy has done a fantastic job of creating additional revenue streams for the Packers. The whole Titletown District has been a huge boost for the Packer organization. 1919, Kohler Lodge, GameDay thingy, etc has been a big success. I saw the numbers a while ago but can't seem to find them now. My bet, is Mark Murphy has created more revenue for the Packers than Rodgers, and at a fraction of the salary.

Okay. My question is would all of these things Murphy did have been even half as popular or revenue making without a winning team? Without a top QB? I think you are underestimating the influence of both of those things. IMO.

 

[Schultz]

So did many major pro and college sports as well. Winning might help some stadiums to keep people in the seats, but that really has never been a problem in Green Bay. The Packers have consistently been raising their ticket prices, along with the rest of the teams in the NFL. The enormous media contract that all 32 teams divvy up, has nothing directly to do with Aaron Rodgers success, nor the success of the Packers. Sure, all the players on the Packers contribute to the success or failure of the team, but with our without each individual player, the team goes on. For someone to try and say that Rodgers brought in more than $50M in revenue for the Packers in 2022, is someone who is viewing things with big blinders on.

IMO. I agree the NFL is a monopoly. They pretty much print their own money with tv contracts. Their popularity is unmatched. Even though football is a team game the NFL advertises and promotes their superstars. Anyone who doesn't see that (not sure if they are big) has blinders on. IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So did many major pro and college sports as well. Winning might help some stadiums to keep people in the seats, but that really has never been a problem in Green Bay. The Packers have consistently been raising their ticket prices, along with the rest of the teams in the NFL. The enormous media contract that all 32 teams divvy up, has nothing directly to do with Aaron Rodgers success, nor the success of the Packers. Sure, all the players on the Packers contribute to the success or failure of the team, but with our without each individual player, the team goes on. For someone to try and say that Rodgers brought in more than $50M in revenue for the Packers in 2022, is someone who is viewing things with big blinders on.

Winning makes teams more popular. Popularity of a team increases said team's revenue. The idea that a team that wins a lot of game doesn't make more money than a team that doesn't win a lot of games is nonsensical. Good QBs are the biggest driver of a team's performance in the NFL. Hence, having the best QB in NFL history for YEARS has increased the revenue of the Packers.

 

[AmishMafia]

If the Packers suck for 10 years...that waiting list will quickly evaporate because most people wont want to pay the price for those tickets

The Packers fielded some of the worst teams in the 70s. The season ticket list expanded during this time.

 

[Mondio]

who are you guys kidding, massive TV contracts and money are a given for football players, just ask the USFL or XFL or whatever. Guys like Rodgers don't make anybody any more money.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Winning makes teams more popular. Popularity of a team increases said team's revenue. The idea that a team that wins a lot of game doesn't make more money than a team that doesn't win a lot of games is nonsensical. Good QBs are the biggest driver of a team's performance in the NFL. Hence, having the best QB in NFL history for YEARS has increased the revenue of the Packers.

Again, show me the money! Specifically, the $50+ Million that Rodgers alone brought in for the Packers in 2022. There is no denying that a successful NFL team can make more money than one that has little success, playoff games (tickets, concessions, etc) alone contribute a lot to that. However, the Packers were not in the playoffs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Okay. My question is would all of these things Murphy did have been even half as popular or revenue making without a winning team? Without a top QB? I think you are underestimating the influence of both of those things. IMO.

Much of what Mark Murphy has done, wasn't just thought of recently, it has been a long range plan. Much like what other professional organizations have done. You don't commit the kind of money that these teams are committing, based on 1 player. I don't remember all of the "stock offerings" that the Packers have used to raise more money, but it wasn't Aaron Rodgers that helped to sell them, it was The Green Bay Packers.

Losing Rodgers might hurt the W's and L's, but the seats will still be full, the TV money will still be received and Jordan Love jerseys or those of any other popular player, will still fly off the racks.

 

[Mondio]

You're asking for something we have already said and you already know can't be delivered. and you keep doing it in an attempt to ignore the very good points everyone else is making, that Aaron Rodgers has been a great value to this team, even last year despite a less than stellar year. There are no big tv contracts without players like Rodgers.

Rodger's impact on this team is going to last long after he's gone in keeping butts in those seats and money flowing thru Green Bay. I'd venture to say his influence on this team will bring in many times over the amount of money he personally made over the entirety of his career.

 

[rmontro]

There are no big tv contracts without players like Rodgers.

I live in Indiana, yet I've been able to watch most of the Packers games over the last several decades. I'm sure Rodgers has a lot to do with that. If the Packers start losing, the local stations might start feeding us Bears games again. I might go into withdrawal if that happens.

 

[thequick12]

I 1,000% would bet otherwise. This fan base is a lot like the Cubs, regardless we show.

Haha easy to say on the back end of 30 plus years of FHOF qb play...lets hope we dont find out

 

[tynimiller]

Haha easy to say on the back end of 30 plus years of FHOF qb play...lets hope we dont find out

It is easy to say, the years prior to that illustrate this fan base.

Been a cubs fan my whole life - I know a fan base that doesn’t care win or lose they’ll show

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think he meant "they" as in the front office. that's my interpretation anyway

In my opinion it was pretty weird Bakhtiari used "they" when talking about the Packers. But I don't believe there's any deeper meaning to it though.

Agreed. I don't see any line item in that statement or and notations that attribute any income to Aaron Rodgers.

With a season ticket waiting list of over 147,000 people, the Packers have no problem selling tickets, nor raising the price on them each season. Rodgers has nothing to do with the Packers selling tickets. Unless you want to talk about the secondary market and it's a "Big Game". Then those tickets get pricey, but the Packer organization does not profit off of that. I could see that argument with a team that can't keep people in the seats, but not the Packers. Also, over $50 million in tickets and jersey sales, attributed only to Rodgers in 2022?

Tying any profits directly to Rodgers is laughable. Sure, he has helped make the Packers successful, but so have a lot of coaches and other players. I know some can't see it, but the NFL is a monopoly and will continue to charge whatever they can get away with and will continue to get it. The Packers, they have an even better position than most teams, their season tickets are very difficult to come by and that started well before Aaron Rodgers.

It's absolutely laughable that you truly believe Rodgers has had zero impact on the Packers selling tickets or making profits over the past 15 years.

and considering the newer generation of fans, i wonder how full that stadium is or how valuable those tickets will be after a decade or so of losing again.

Actually all you need to do is take a look at the secondary market to figure out how valuable those tickets would be if the Packers struggle for an extended period of time. For reference, most of them didn't even sell for face value for several games last season.

I just don't think the statement should be made in definitive terms as it cannot actually be measured personally. GB has a MASSIVE waiting list for tickets, sales of games will not be influenced IMO at all even if the team enters a decade of sucking.

I'm absolutely convinced that even the mighty Packers will have some troubles selling tickets if they suck for some time.

Although vilified by some, Mark Murphy has done a fantastic job of creating additional revenue streams for the Packers. The whole Titletown District has been a huge boost for the Packer organization. 1919, Kohler Lodge, GameDay thingy, etc has been a big success. I saw the numbers a while ago but can't seem to find them now. My bet, is Mark Murphy has created more revenue for the Packers than Rodgers, and at a fraction of the salary.

I definitely agree that Murphy has done a great job creating additional revenue for the Packers. But it's pretty obvious to me he wouldn't have been able to have as much success if the team wouldn't have been that good over the past 30 years.

A strong winning franchise generates incomes that lesser teams would not. But the primary income stream we are talking about is the small fraction that is non-TV. And that fraction is mostly memoribillia sales.

The Packers actually made $231.7 million of local revenue for the fiscal year that ended on March 31, 2022. That accounted for 40% of their total revenue last year and definitely isn't only a small fraction.

26.5 TD per consecutive season (2018/2019) and low completion % is not typical across Rodgers career. Without the use of hindsight, in real time that speaks to a decline in play.

I definitely agree that Rodgers' numbers in 2018 and '19 might have pointed towards a decline. But there were other factors involved with McCarthy having lost the locker room and him playing in a new system under MLF the following season. I didn't like the Packers drafting Love as I was convinced Rodgers would be able to bounce back at the time it happened.

Aaron’s been disgruntled going on years now and he’s made that abundantly clear. Aaron chose to go to another team, there were avenues to stay and he fought them vehemently. Even if there’s blame to go around, Aaron needs to get over it. Every contract has two sides that can spoil it or make it smell like roses. Aaron Rodgers sometimes makes things unpleasant in the way he handled these matters. Personally if that was me I go direct to Brian and give him the benefit of the doubt, I’ve seen no evidence that ever happened. None has eluded to talks they had along the way. Communication and benefit of the doubt go a long ways in resolving conflict. Doesn’t sound like Rodgers subscribed to that.

There's no doubt both sides could have done a better job of communicating. In my opinion both Gutekunst and Rodgers are to blame for the lack of it.

The Packers fielded some of the worst teams in the 70s. The season ticket list expanded during this time.

I truly wonder how long that season ticket list would be at an impressive number if the team struggles for several seasons in this day and age though. I hope we'll never have to find out.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Again, show me the money! Specifically, the $50+ Million that Rodgers alone brought in for the Packers in 2022. There is no denying that a successful NFL team can make more money than one that has little success, playoff games (tickets, concessions, etc) alone contribute a lot to that. However, the Packers were not in the playoffs.

You win on semantics, can’t show you a line item stating $50 mil. Spirit of the discussion is that he’s made the packers LOTS of money and trying to argue that he hasn’t because someone can’t prove a specific amount doesn’t make sense.

 

[AmishMafia]

The Packers actually made $231.7 million of local revenue for the fiscal year that ended on March 31, 2022. That accounted for 40% of their total revenue last year and definitely isn't only a small fraction.

I saw that. I also saw they made $61M the year before. I know Murphy is good, but quadrupling revenue in a single year is a bit much. Probably an accounting maneuver to for some long range tax saving strategy. There isn't that much going on over there. Although they just finished that office building - I doubt it brings in $160M per year.

I truly wonder how long that season ticket list would be at an impressive number if the team struggles for several seasons in this day and age though. I hope we'll never have to find out.

I as well. Today people seem more devoted to a particular player than a team. They also seem to be more quick to move onto other things.

 

[Mondio]

I think the average fan in the stands has changed. Many more seem to be driven by being at the place to be so to speak rather than there for football. I know since i've been in high school at least, many kids of fans, some not yet born even, were being added like crazy to the season ticket list. How many grew up to be real fans, or will when the time comes? when they're winning you can hardly touch a ticket for less than 200 bucks and that's from someone you k now with tickets. Prior to the Dallas game last year I regularly saw people around me putting them down to 50-75 dollars to get rid of them. Then we started winning again.

What are these people going to do that sell half their tickets and it pays for them going to do when the 2ndary market dries up because they have 3 seasons of losing and nobody paying for their tickets?

at the risk of sounding like an old codger, I don't think today's fan is quite as hardy or resilient as the prior generation. Maybe I'm wrong. Like most of you, I hope to not find out.

 

[thequick12]

Yep, exactly @tynimiller...I dont know how old you are id guess like 40 something idk based on what but thats my guess.

You gotta realize these young kids today arent your cubs fans of yesteryear

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You win on semantics, can’t show you a line item stating $50 mil. Spirit of the discussion is that he’s made the packers LOTS of money and trying to argue that he hasn’t because someone can’t prove a specific amount doesn’t make sense.

Actually, you and others will have an opportunity to "prove" your theory. If the Rodgers trade happens and the Packers gross income for 2023 drops by over $50M, from what it was in 2022, then it might be fair to say that the drop was due to all the money that just Rodgers was bringing in. Obviously, for comparison purposes, the income will have to be adjusted for increases in ticket prices, media deal, etc.

Just to be clear, I have never said that Rodgers or any other player for that matter, hasn't helped the team to be successful and that success has made the team a cash cow. What I did disagree with was this posters claim:

Because the Packers absolutely made a lot more than 50 million dollars in profit by having Rodgers on the team last season

All I am asking for is the math and how 1 player, single handedly, increased the Packers profits in 2022 by "a lot more than 50 million dollars."

 

[Mondio]

You've already won your argument. There is no way to "prove" it. You win. There will be a greater than 50M change just from simple year to year accounting practices and we all know it. His true value can't be quantified down to a specific dollar amount, you know it, we know it. But you keep harping on it, because it's all you have when you also know he's worth so much more to the team, the city and the league than 50M dollars.

Like his head coach said, lots of people got paid because of Aaron Rodgers. Everyone seems to recognize it, but you.

 

[Pkrjones]

Actually, you and others will have an opportunity to "prove" your theory. If the Rodgers trade happens and the Packers gross income for 2023 drops by over $50M, from what it was in 2022, then it might be fair to say that the drop was due to all the money that just Rodgers was bringing in.

Not so, Poker. Also "gone" are: Cobb, Lewis, Lazard, Lowry, Reed, & Tonyan. The Tonyan family alone is over 100-strong w/ some regularly heading north from IL. The Packers didn't collapse when Favre left, they'll be just fine after AR officially leaves.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not so, Poker. Also "gone" are: Cobb, Lewis, Lazard, Lowry, Reed, & Tonyan. The Tonyan family alone is over 100-strong w/ some regularly heading north from IL. The Packers didn't collapse when Favre left, they'll be just fine after AR officially leaves.

LOL....I don't worry about the Packers cash flow and I am 100% confident in saying, losing Aaron Rodgers will not decrease revenues for 2023. Every ticket available for the Packers to profit from is already sold, TV money is locked in, parking, concessions and everything else associated with packing Lambeau for every game is all but certain, unless covid is back. Fans will be buying up Jordan Love Jerseys and other paraphernalia with his likeness, most likely than the 2022 sales of Rodgers memorabilia.