The Jordan Love Era Begins

Will Jordan Love be 3 in a row for the Packers?

  • Yes, he's a FHOF Player

    Votes: 4 5.6%
  • He'll be pro bowl good but not FHOF good

    Votes: 20 27.8%
  • He'll be average

    Votes: 12 16.7%
  • No, he'll be a below average bust

    Votes: 4 5.6%
  • Too early to Tell

    Votes: 32 44.4%

  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't hardly understand your question. It's just a precaution for Jordan to have a deal done w/o any complications that an injury might cause. And certainly, once a contract is in place; the contract would spell out how to handle any injury from then on as far as money is concerned. Just the way it is imho. Him not actually practicing means to me that the contract is near. We'll see.

Poker struggles to separate his absolute hatred for the level of he contracts and such when discussing such events. Which to be fair is not without merit.
Yup.

I know how things ARE done in the NFL.

Doesn't mean that I like or agree with it.

Like I said before. Guaranteed money was fine (to me) when it was basically an amount needed to take care of a Darrell Stingley type situation. Compare that to what Bahk got? No comparison.
 
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Yup.

I know how things ARE done in the NFL.

Doesn't mean that I like or agree with it.

Like I said before. Guaranteed money was fine (to me) when it was basically an amount needed to take care of a Darrell Stingley type situation. Compare that to what Bahk got? No comparison.
I’m still wondering what you could buy with $60mil a season that you couldn’t buy with $55mil per season. I mean these are tough questions I fight with
 

Heyjoe4

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Yeah and what’s crazy is I think Jordan is better than Trevor Lawrence long term. Who would’ve said that before he was drafted #1 overall?

Favre, Rodgers and Love all cost us a later Day1 selections. Thats just insane. In a draft “do over” I’d offer its even possible you’d get all 3 drafted at that #1, #2,#3 overall Slot (in their respective drafts) At least very close to that
Lawrence has had an average 3 years, at best. Some of that may be the players around him and a weak GM or HC. His first year was lost on a terrible HC.

But I really expected him to be successful right out of college. I would take Love over Lawrence every time. So if I'm Love and his agent, Lawrence's deal is the benchmark. (I don't know about the rest of Lawrence's deal as far as bonus and guaranteed money.)

just look at recent top 5 QBs. Young did very little, and Stroud played lights out. Burrows was strong day one. Herbett took some time but is very good. So when I her about how great Caleb Williams will be, I'm gonna wait. Actually, that's true for all QBs. Love was selected 26th overall, Rodgers 23rd, and I think Favre was 2nd round for Atlanta.

So yeah, show me. Love has done that. I have no problem with him getting a huge deal.
 

Heyjoe4

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I’m still wondering what you could buy with $60mil a season that you couldn’t buy with $55mil per season. I mean these are tough questions I fight with
Nice little bit of dry humor. Love it. The problem is ego. And I kinda get that. I said it earlier in a different way, but if I'm Love, I want a better deal than Lawrence.

But you're right. At some point it becomes pride and ego over common sense. And I get Gluten's not-so-subtle point, one he's learned from the Rodgers years. Teams win SBs, not individual players. So pay a QB the big money he deserves, but not at the expense of the team. That's really hard to do. GMs negotiate with individuals, but they build teams.
 

Heyjoe4

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Poker struggles to separate his absolute hatred for the level of he contracts and such when discussing such events. Which to be fair is not without merit.
Well I think the problem is what I stated above. GMs negotiate with individuals and build teams. Individuals are driven by ego, especially pro athletes.

"Greed" is an easy way to dismiss it all, but it misses the point, and hey, wouldn't we all want the most money we could get? Has anyone gotten a raise or bonus they thought was unfair? So I think pride and ego play a bigger role than greed, at least for the players.

As for the teams and the NFL, greed is just a natural part of capitalism. Competition should hold that in check. The NFL is very, very close to being a monopoly - maybe not by the strict b-school definition, but certainly when it comes to making above-normal profits. If that happened in a competitive environment, competitors would enter and prices would go down. Ain't gonna happen in the NFL, or any major sport that I know.

It's pointless to rave on about it, unless one can change it.
 

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Well I think the problem is what I stated above. GMs negotiate with individuals and build teams. Individuals are driven by ego, especially pro athletes.

"Greed" is an easy way to dismiss it all, but it misses the point, and hey, wouldn't we all want the most money we could get? Has anyone gotten a raise or bonus they thought was unfair? So I think pride and ego play a bigger role than greed, at least for the players.

As for the teams and the NFL, greed is just a natural part of capitalism. Competition should hold that in check. The NFL is very, very close to being a monopoly - maybe not by the strict b-school definition, but certainly when it comes to making above-normal profits. If that happened in a competitive environment, competitors would enter and prices would go down. Ain't gonna happen in the NFL, or any major sport that I know.

It's pointless to rave on about it, unless one can change it.
We should all be trying to have our best possible lives. And in 15 years when Love retires he has to ask himself, do I want to have $800M in the bank or $700M and 3 superbowl trophies?

Clearly 5 or 6 million a year affords another strong contributer. And by setting an example of selflessness, maybe the rest if the players don't drive so hard for the most money. Maybe we can afford another strong contributer. Could easily push us over the top.
 

Heyjoe4

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We should all be trying to have our best possible lives. And in 15 years when Love retires he has to ask himself, do I want to have $800M in the bank or $700M and 3 superbowl trophies?

Clearly 5 or 6 million a year affords another strong contributer. And by setting an example of selflessness, maybe the rest if the players don't drive so hard for the most money. Maybe we can afford another strong contributer. Could easily push us over the top.
Good summary and good points. Would be sweet if Love would pull a "Jalen Brunson" moment out of his hat here. In another year or two, the Packers are gonna have at least two WRs looking for a pay increase, among others. Sure would be easier if the wealth was spread around to all of the players. But players/agents negotiate for themselves in a vacuum, exclusive of team.

I won't hold my breath.......
 

Pokerbrat2000

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We should all be trying to have our best possible lives. And in 15 years when Love retires he has to ask himself, do I want to have $800M in the bank or $700M and 3 superbowl trophies?

Clearly 5 or 6 million a year affords another strong contributer. And by setting an example of selflessness, maybe the rest if the players don't drive so hard for the most money. Maybe we can afford another strong contributer. Could easily push us over the top.
Great thoughts, but I don't see it happening. There is the rare player that is willing to settle for a lessor salary, so that the money he left on the table can be used to improve the team. However, these days, it seems like most everything is "everyman for themselves" and "it's all about me".

Football is no doubt a team sport, but I think if you privately asked every player "Would you rather have $5Million dollars and no SB ring or a SB ring and $1M?", I am pretty sure the $5M would win out.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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You mean Chase Young not Lawrence right? Or didn’t you mean Trevor
I think Love would go #2 after Burrows as it sits. #3-#4 at the latest. We know Okudah isnt going top 3 so he’s out.
Just my guess
I think 2020 has yet to be determined. As far as Chase Young goes, he is on his 3rd team and may miss a lot of this season due to a neck issue. I doubt he is in the top 10 of a "re-draft".
 

Calebs Revenge

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My understanding (from what I've read in several articles) is that it is unclear whether Gute can fine the man, since he is showing up in camp every day - just refusing to step on the field. Apparently this is uncharted territory, and it sounds as though even if he thought he could fine him, Gute is not yet willing to do this particular *** for tat.

There may be more clarity on that question in days to come, since this is still early on in the "Oh, yeah, sez who?" stage. I think both sides are deliberately trying to avoid making it overly adversarial. For now.



This is the thing I was so worried about from the beginning. As soon as I found out who represents Love - Dave Mulugheta, regarded as the toughest athlete's agent in the business - I worried it could very easily come to this. Mulugheta never caves; he's the guy who scored the $230 million dollar contract for Deshaun Watson after he was suspended a year for dozens of ****** assault allegations.

If he got that for Watson, with all that baggage hanging over him, how firm do you think he's going to be when he's negotiating for a choirboy face-of-the-franchise like Love?

One of Mulugheta's trademark tactics is to demand contracts with maximum guaranteed money, and one of Russ Ball's best-known tendencies is to not guarantee a dime more in guaranteed money than he absolutely has to. irresistible force, meet immovable object. Love's side is that he's demanding maximum guarenteed money, the team's side is that they don't believe in guaranteed money.

I can't say for sure that this is what's happening here, but it does seem likely. Mulugheta has an extremely strong hand to play (one of the strongest hands he's ever had), and he knows he has Green Bay over a barrel of bottomless depth. He's got very little to lose, and his history suggests that this is what brings out the toughest side of him.



I know... on the one hand, part of says "well, hell, that's just the way it is these days". The other part of it says that the players themselves are a part of it.

This "oh it's all in the hands of my agent" crap is a cop-out. The players are instructing the agents, "hey, sounds good, just get me as much as you can." Jordan is all in on whatever it is that his agent is doing.



Hate to say it, but yeah... I'm exactly at the point myself. The bloom is off the rose. I still like the guy, looking forward to watching him play for the Packers, but I don't look at him the same way. If it turns out Ball was drastically lowballing him, that's a different story, but I don't think that's what's happening.

I remember during the Edmonton Oilers' dynasty, it was Mark Messier's turn to negotiate his contract. At that time, he was widely considered to be one of the top 5 hockey players in the world.

He skipped an agent, and went into Peter Pocklington's office, sat down across the desk, and said straight out - "I know how much you're paying Wayne, Jari, and Grant. I know you can't pay me that much, because you've already paid them so much. I want to stay here and win more cups with this team; you tell me how much you can afford to pay me, and we'll work something out".

A few years later, the Colorado Avalanche.... Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, and and Patrick Roy were the 3 players who made that team unbeatable. All due for contracts in the same off-season. The 3 of them went into the GM's office together, and said, "let's all work together to find a way that you can divide up the available cap space fairly enough to keep us all together for another run."

It can be done. It's been done. Players have the power to say "don't cut the throat of the entire franchise just to feed me."




People can say "oh, sure, how badly can a quarterback wearing a bright red shirt get injured in camp?" But remember Tre Greenlaw ripping his Achille's tendon in the Super Bowl when all he was doing was trotting out onto the field after a chance of posession.
Tom Brady is the goat of what you’re talking about. He left $120 million on the table during contract negotiations and made 1 billion in endorsements after winning those Super Bowls. Jordan should take a page out of his book if he’s smart.
 
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I think 2020 has yet to be determined. As far as Chase Young goes, he is on his 3rd team and may miss a lot of this season due to a neck issue. I doubt he is in the top 10 of a "re-draft".
I agree with Chase Young but I’m asking Which Lawrence in the 2020 draft are you referring to? or was that a typo or which player are you referring to?
 

Heyjoe4

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I agree with Chase Young but I’m asking Which Lawrence in the 2020 draft are you referring to? or was that a typo or which player are you referring to?
Trevor Lawrence? I think he was drafted in 2020, or maybe 2021 as he just finished his third season.
 

Thirteen Below

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Tom Brady is the goat of what you’re talking about. He left $120 million on the table during contract negotiations and made 1 billion in endorsements after winning those Super Bowls. Jordan should take a page out of his book if he’s smart.
Yes. Yes, and as much as Brady sometimes rubs me the wrong way, I always try to give credit where credit is due. I respect him for the moderate stance he took on contract negotiations and how much the team benefitted from that. You could make a very strong argument that if he hadn't, the Patriots' dynasty might not have been so impressive, and he'd have a lot more naked fingers.The power balance of the NFL would probably have been different for ~12-15 years... they'd still have been a major force, and certanly won some rings, but some other teams would probably have been good enough to win some of those years.

But then again.... when you're married to a woman who makes twice as much as you do every year, and has more than double your net worth, that sort of negotiating flexibility comes much more easily. You can afford to leave a little on the table. Not every man is that fortunate.
 

Heyjoe4

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Yes. Yes, and as much as Brady sometimes rubs me the wrong way, I always try to give credit where credit is due. I respect him for the moderate stance he took on contract negotiations and how much the team benefitted from that. You could make a very strong argument that if he hadn't, the Patriots' dynasty might not have been so impressive, and he'd have a lot more naked fingers.The power balance of the NFL would probably have been different for ~12-15 years... they'd still have been a major force, and certanly won some rings, but some other teams would probably have been good enough to win some of those years.

But then again.... when you're married to a woman who makes twice as much as you do every year, and has more than double your net worth, that sort of negotiating flexibility comes much more easily. You can afford to leave a little on the table. Not every man is that fortunate.
All good points. I guess wealth is relative. True Brady's wife was very rich all on her own. Even so, what Brady did is commendable. As a rule, the rich like to get wealthy and stay wealthy. I don't expect it to be a trend though in the NFL or any major sports. Although Jalen Brunson of the Knicks left, I think, left $100 mil on the table so the Knicks could keep building. Not sure about the amount, but he did leave money behind. That's rare.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I agree with Chase Young but I’m asking Which Lawrence in the 2020 draft are you referring to? or was that a typo or which player are you referring to?
My bad.....was thinking Trevor was drafted in 2020, he was drafted in 2021. Thanks for catching my brain fart.

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Pokerbrat2000

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But then again.... when you're married to a woman who makes twice as much as you do every year, and has more than double your net worth, that sort of negotiating flexibility comes much more easily. You can afford to leave a little on the table. Not every man is that fortunate.
I don't even think it had much to do with his ex-wife, more than it did with the money we are talking about. With his endorsements and football income, Brady was making way more money than he or his great great grandkids could ever spend. He wanted to win championships and etch his name into history as the GOAT, seems he just may have done that.

I know it has been my "theme" this month, but when is enough enough on football players making $50M+ a year?
 

Calebs Revenge

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All good points. I guess wealth is relative. True Brady's wife was very rich all on her own. Even so, what Brady did is commendable. As a rule, the rich like to get wealthy and stay wealthy. I don't expect it to be a trend though in the NFL or any major sports. Although Jalen Brunson of the Knicks left, I think, left $100 mil on the table so the Knicks could keep building. Not sure about the amount, but he did leave money behind. That's rare.
I don’t think Giselle‘s money had anything to do with him never being a top 10 paid quarterback. (can’t guarantee, but it doesn’t feel like he was ever a top paid quarterback.)
He looked at it as they can pay me another 5 to 10,000,000 a year or I can have a wide receiver or because it was Belliceks (spelling) team he got a bunch of defensive players but even still a good defense makes your job easier.
 

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I don’t think Giselle‘s money had anything to do with him never being a top 10 paid quarterback. (can’t guarantee, but it doesn’t feel like he was ever a top paid quarterback.)
He looked at it as they can pay me another 5 to 10,000,000 a year or I can have a wide receiver or because it was Belliceks (spelling) team he got a bunch of defensive players but even still a good defense makes your job easier.
Yeah when you put it that way, it was a way to make his job easier.
 

rmontro

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Tom Brady is the goat of what you’re talking about. He left $120 million on the table during contract negotiations and made 1 billion in endorsements after winning those Super Bowls. Jordan should take a page out of his book if he’s smart.
There used to be a poster here who claimed Brady taking less money to help the team was a myth, and it didn't really happen. That is not my position, but at one time you couldn't bring that up without him naysaying it.
 

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There used to be a poster here who claimed Brady taking less money to help the team was a myth, and it didn't really happen. That is not my position, but at one time you couldn't bring that up without him naysaying it.
I seem to remember that. There were other press/rumors that this was all a ruse by either the Pats or Brady or both. Never made much sense to me. I believe he did it. Jalen Brunson just did it for the Knicks.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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There used to be a poster here who claimed Brady taking less money to help the team was a myth, and it didn't really happen. That is not my position, but at one time you couldn't bring that up without him naysaying it.
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Thirteen Below

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All good points. I guess wealth is relative. True Brady's wife was very rich all on her own. Even so, what Brady did is commendable. As a rule, the rich like to get wealthy and stay wealthy. I don't expect it to be a trend though in the NFL or any major sports. Although Jalen Brunson of the Knicks left, I think, left $100 mil on the table so the Knicks could keep building. Not sure about the amount, but he did leave money behind. That's rare.
$113 million, I just read. He signed a $156 million deal, and left 113 on the tabl. That's a significant sum; he left almost 1/3 of the available salary for his team to build with.

I think a lot more athletes could learn from that example.

I don't really buy into the line of thinking that it's not Jordan's fault that his agent is playing hardball; that it's just the agent, and the player has no part in it. Love had a part in it when he hired Dave Mulugheta. He knew damned well who Mulugheta was - he's not the agent you hire when you want to accept a fair deal, a contract that's reasonable for both sides. Mulugheta is the guy you hire when you to want to drain every single drop of blood out of the stone that you can possibly squeeze.

And here we are. I'm not necesarily saying that this looks bad for Love, but it's not very flattering.
 
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Calebs Revenge

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There used to be a poster here who claimed Brady taking less money to help the team was a myth, and it didn't really happen. That is not my position, but at one time you couldn't bring that up without him naysaying it.
Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. Look at the top 5 paid QBs every year for the last 25. I’d be surprised if TB12 is on any of them.
 

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Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. Look at the top 5 paid QBs every year for the last 25. I’d be surprised if TB12 is on any of them.
Tom Brady shows up in 2005 and drops out in 2013. Never topped the charts but came close.
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