The Jordan Love Era Begins

[mradtke66]

Lynch had been breaking tackles on every play in that drive. I could not believe they didn't give it to him.

As I have been trying to state, though maybe not clearly enough, there is a difference between breaking tackles down field vs. at the goal line.

Lynch's success on 3rd or 4th and short was 1/8 for the year. And throwing when they did assured them of three tries, unless they commit a turnover. Which of course they did, so the decision behind what they did is ignored.

 

[gopkrs]

they had a time out left.

 

[mradtke66]

they had a time out left.

Correct.

The idea behind throwing on the first attempt from the 1 was a safe throw that either hits the dirt or TD. And this was a safe throw. I believe it was th first and only pick on a throw from the 1 all season.

By throwing early, you make the defense defend both on the 2nd and 3rd attempt because you can use the time out then.

 

[gopkrs]

I can remember thinking game over. They'll give it to Lynch and game over. No way they can stop him right now. And at that time, I wanted the patriots to win. And looking back it was evidently the right call for Bellichek not to call a time out. Didn't give them time to think.

 

[OldSchool101]

If they run and don’t make it, they burn the TO and they “have” to throw the last 2 downs.

Not with :29 seconds. It’s a bang bang run play it’s not like you are running down the field to reset there. :23 seconds at the Tackle (if there is one). The time it takes to reset the ball going from the 2 yard line to the 2 yard line? :12 sec area. Teams do it all the time in :15-20 seconds 35 yards down field.
IF he misses it’s 3rd n 1 with :11-12 seconds gameclock at the next snap and Pete would take a TO worst case with :03 on the clock. He only needs :01 to run a 4th down try there he’s not trying to save his Timeout.

Pete could also call a Timeout immediately after a 2nd down failed attempt with :23 seconds left. He’s going to have 2 plays called on 3rd down after a Timeout (they always do there won’t be a huddle). If he goes that route he’d call a Pass play in the Paint on 3rd and it takes :06.

Plenty of scenarios to get 3 tries there this is Pete Carrol he’s not a dummy. Seattle easily has 3 tries if they Run on 2nd down. This video was 1st Down btw I’m not sure if you saw what just happened the very play before. The Marshawn Demolition gained 4 yards and very nearly scored. Saying he can’t run 1 yard is ridiculous.

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Does the play at :45 sec look like a guy that can’t score at the goal line? What about the one at 5:30?

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I will say to bring this back home. Jordan can learn to see another down a little better in a similar scenario. Sometimes it’s ok to throw it away or run it out of bounds and just live to see another down.

 

[mradtke66]

Not with :29 seconds. It’s a bang bang run play it’s not like you are running down the field to reset there. :23 seconds at the Tackle (if there is one). The time it takes to reset the ball going from the 2 yard line to the 2 yard line? :12 sec area. Teams do it all the time in :15-20 seconds 35 yards down field.
IF he misses it’s 3rd n 1 with :11-12 seconds gameclock at the next snap and Pete would take a TO worst case with :03 on the clock. He only needs :01 to run a 4th down try there he’s not trying to save his Timeout.

Again, by throwing on 2nd down, he keeps the threat of run OR pass for 3rd and 4th down. If he runs and doesn't make it on 2nd, he has less options.

Throwing on 2nd gave the most flexibility on the follow up downs.

Saying he can’t run 1 yard is ridiculous.

Again though, he wasn't good at picking up that 1 yard during the regular season.

 

[OldSchool101]

Again, by throwing on 2nd down, he keeps the threat of run OR pass for 3rd and 4th down. If he runs and doesn't make it on 2nd, he has less options.

Throwing on 2nd gave the most flexibility on the follow up downs.



Again though, he wasn't good at picking up that 1 yard during the regular season.

What’s done is done. But saying Lynch can’t get a yard in probably 2 legit running plays is just really reaching. A 1 yard run is 95% a Seattle SB win and we know a stop is 2 more plays. Why not just take that bonus run and likely end the game? Who cares about that you might have to throw once later? You get 3 tries and the Run game has been working.

Marshawn was interviewed by Shannon Sharpe a few years ago and I think both were amazed Lynch didn’t get to put the nail in the Coffin.

Again. I hope we learned from these situations in The Jordan Era and learn that it’s ok to take a bonus play there if you have 3 tries. If you miss you still get 2 more chances. I might’ve even rolled Wilson out left on an option to draw a Defender in and throw it out of the back of the Endzone if it’s tight coverage or loft a short 5 yard pass if broken coverage etc. or just run it if the Defender plays in a pickle. Russ was pretty nifty on his feet himself if I recall back in 2013.
Live to see all 3 tries you never know when Lynch gets left running free etc.

The same applies with Love (or any young QB) he forced a throw to end that last playoff drive. This would’ve been ok on 4th down OR with :03 seconds gameclock etc. Not getting down on #10 I’m a big fan and I enjoyed the season, we rocked it.
Great players still try to get better. That play still showed some Rook there. It doesn’t negate a wonderful season but it also doesn’t negate attempting to learn if presented the same down n distance n clock. If #10 learns to put an extra yard on those longer throws, learns to clean up small details, learns to live to see another play to increase odds in similar situations to SF49s?
I think he’s a top 10-12 QB in a bad year. Plenty good enough to Win in Postseason.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Is it a coincidence that suddenly every Packer receiver we pick shows something?
Watson, Doubs, Toure, Reed, Wicks, Dubois. As well as 2 UDFAs in Melton and Heath, and 2 TEs in Musgrave and Kraft.

That's 100% on 8 receivers drafted. Of course our 7th rounders have had very modest production but have shown flashes.

Yes, there were some deep WR drafts and an all time great TE draft. But how can we suddenly get really good at picking them? I don't think it is a coincidence, though I'm not really sure why.

I suspect it's certainly part scouting, but more and more over the past year I've come to strongly believe that this is largely the work of the WR coach/passing game coordinator Jason Vrable. I very much think he's the unsing hero, the secret sauce behind our passing game's explosion last year.

I don't care how good your sccouting is, to have that many rookies come together so completely in just a matter of months and play that exceptionally well is either incredibly good luck or incredibly good coaching. Probably some of both, but moreso coaching I think.

The way they just all gelled in November; the footwork, the situational awareness, the use of space, the awareness of the sideline, the positioning of their bodies while running routes... these players didn't look at all like a bunch of kids who'd been cramming for final exams in their door rooms just 6 months earlier. They looked like experienced, savvy veterans, they got to that point awfully damned fast. I think that was largely coaching.

Word form the players seems to support that; Vrable got very little attention from the press last season (which I loved to see; I don't want him to get noticed and snatched up for a promotion by some oither team), but several of the Kids mentioned him a numbr of times and credited him with showing them how to turn their light bulbs on.

 

[Schultz]

I’m not sure who’s guessing Seattle had a 12.5% chance to score? Marshawn’s weight to Power alone creates a momentum to Win against a LB or DB if he makes the 1.5-2 yardline. Its a game of 6 on 6 on from the Center (5 D players are eliminated from this play that are to the right of the Center. A very quick pitch left to Marshawn, which Russel is good at like Rodgers.. and let him find the left Pylon (gives him a chance to use the Sideline to get a free Timeout if he doesn’t find a cut lane) imo? Worst case he’s getting caught around the 2 and that’s probable if someone makes a huge play and trips Marshawn. If not I think he scores on the first try.

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Also Seattle had 3 tries with a 1/2 minute and a Timeout, plus the Sideline is a free Clock stop. They ain’t kicking a FG here. It’s 4-Down and it’s 2nd Down so that analyst expert you are following doesn’t even know the Down?

I apologize for being confused. Are you advocating Beastmodes weight to power or him outrunning the defense to the pylon?

 

[Schultz]

Lynch had been breaking tackles on every play in that drive. I could not believe they didn't give it to him.

On how many of those plays were N.E. in a goal line front?

 

[gopkrs]

On how many of those plays were N.E. in a goal line front?

What play has a better chance of something really bad happening? Run or Pass?

 

[mradtke66]

What play has a better chance of something really bad happening? Run or Pass?

In a vacuum, I'd call it roughly equal. You can turn it over on either. You can lose yards on either.

Throwing from the 1 yard line, the pass was actually safer that year. In the immediate aftermath of the game, there was a flurry of stat lookups. My recollection it that Wilson's pick in the Super Bowl was the only one for the entirety of the regular and post season.

In other words, an incredibly safe decision.

 

[OldSchool101]

I apologize for being confused. Are you advocating Beastmodes weight to power or him outrunning the defense to the pylon?

A little of both, but probably more Power. If Lynch gets a quick pitch he’s already got momentum and he was not exactly slow in his prime. Pretty good chance he’s going to find a crease and exploit it. There is also a slight chance he goes lateral towards the pylon and gets run out of bounds which is fine, free timeout.
Even if you grab him at the 2 yard line and he’s made his cut? I’d argue his Power transfer is hard to stop because he’s so compact and strong in small spaces.
He’s likely making the goal line imo but there’s also a chance they get caught back around LOS…Pete would just call a TO and drum up 2 plays. Either way they should not have passed on 2nd down no need to there. What are you trying to score and give Tom Brady 2 Timeouts and over a half minute to get in FG range? Risky, use the 7 seconds and if you do score on 3rd down there’s under :20 seconds left.

Take the free 2nd down bonus run play there is my contention. That 2nd Down ifrom the 1 yard line with just under :30 sec is at worst a coin flip for a SB Championship. Why risk a throw into tight windows or traffic on a 2nd down?? You do that on 3rd or 4th depending on gameclock. It’s one of the rare bad decisions by Pete. With a Timeout? you’d only strike at the paint on a 4th down OR a 3rd down to either get a TD or clock stop. 2nd down is a bonus play, unless you see just some stupid bad broken D coverage.

In an odd way, that Seattle forced error was similar to our mistake we made on our last wild throw against SF. Just throw it away there and get a quick clock stop. It’s not 4th down. Thats a totally acceptable wild 4th down type throw, but unacceptable with 3 tries.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Why even have a 5th option if players are just going to sit out and threaten to not suit up for that 5th year?

Love won't practice without deal; Pack optimistic

Green Bay Packers quarterback Jordan Love will not practice until he and the team agree to a contract extension, general manager Brian Gutekunst said Monday.

www.espn.com.au

 

[tynimiller]

Why even have a 5th option if players are just going to sit out and threaten to not suit up for that 5th year?

Love won't practice without deal; Pack optimistic

Green Bay Packers quarterback Jordan Love will not practice until he and the team agree to a contract extension, general manager Brian Gutekunst said Monday.

www.espn.com.au

He isn’t on a 5th year option Poker. We extended him and did not pick up 5th year option remember?

 

[Pkrjones]

He isn’t on a 5th year option Poker. We extended him and did not pick up 5th year option remember?

True, but the point is that Love IS under contract but sitting out as leverage towards his next deal. It's the smart move on his part, not getting injured prior to inking his deal. Also, by being there but not taking the field I doubt Love's being fined $50k/day so Gute has little leverage. Just get the deal done so it doesn't derail a potential SB year.

 

[thequick12]

Im not a fan of him sitting out I think this young team needs as much time together as possible. At the same time as a fan of negotiating I do have to say its a smart move by his agent.

Pressure is definitely on the team to get this deal done. Its likely Love's representation is pushing for him to become the highest paid player in league history

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He isn’t on a 5th year option Poker. We extended him and did not pick up 5th year option remember?

Tomatoe - Tamato

The Packers locked him into playing, this his 5th year. The Packers did him and themselves a solid by entering into that 2 year deal instead.

Sorry, but I'm tired of players "sitting" until they get a "new deal".

First strike for me on Jordan Love.

 

[OldSchool101]

Tomatoe - Tamato

The Packers locked him into playing, this his 5th year. The Packers did him and themselves a solid by entering into that 2 year deal instead.

Sorry, but I'm tired of players "sitting" until they get a "new deal".

First strike for me on Jordan Love.

I agree. It’s not a good look to fans. Although I do like @Pkrjones comment about not wanting to tear an Achilles moments before he signs a Mega Deal. Imagine if he did that this week how much he could lose.

I think it gets settled by this weekend. They should just meet in the middle and move forward.

 

[gopkrs]

True, but the point is that Love IS under contract but sitting out as leverage towards his next deal. It's the smart move on his part, not getting injured prior to inking his deal. Also, by being there but not taking the field I doubt Love's being fined $50k/day so Gute has little leverage. Just get the deal done so it doesn't derail a potential SB year.

He just doesn't want to get hurt on some fluke play. It is probably close to being done. jmo

 

[Thirteen Below]

Also, by being there but not taking the field I doubt Love's being fined $50k/day so Gute has little leverage.

My understanding (from what I've read in several articles) is that it is unclear whether Gute can fine the man, since he is showing up in camp every day - just refusing to step on the field. Apparently this is uncharted territory, and it sounds as though even if he thought he could fine him, Gute is not yet willing to do this particular *** for tat.

There may be more clarity on that question in days to come, since this is still early on in the "Oh, yeah, sez who?" stage. I think both sides are deliberately trying to avoid making it overly adversarial. For now.

Im not a fan of him sitting out I think this young team needs as much time together as possible. At the same time as a fan of negotiating I do have to say its a smart move by his agent.

Pressure is definitely on the team to get this deal done. Its likely Love's representation is pushing for him to become the highest paid player in league history

This is the thing I was so worried about from the beginning. As soon as I found out who represents Love - Dave Mulugheta, regarded as the toughest athlete's agent in the business - I worried it could very easily come to this. Mulugheta never caves; he's the guy who scored the $230 million dollar contract for Deshaun Watson after he was suspended a year for dozens of ****** assault allegations.

If he got that for Watson, with all that baggage hanging over him, how firm do you think he's going to be when he's negotiating for a choirboy face-of-the-franchise like Love?

One of Mulugheta's trademark tactics is to demand contracts with maximum guaranteed money, and one of Russ Ball's best-known tendencies is to not guarantee a dime more in guaranteed money than he absolutely has to. irresistible force, meet immovable object. Love's side is that he's demanding maximum guarenteed money, the team's side is that they don't believe in guaranteed money.

I can't say for sure that this is what's happening here, but it does seem likely. Mulugheta has an extremely strong hand to play (one of the strongest hands he's ever had), and he knows he has Green Bay over a barrel of bottomless depth. He's got very little to lose, and his history suggests that this is what brings out the toughest side of him.

Sorry, but I'm tired of players "sitting" until they get a "new deal".

I know... on the one hand, part of says "well, hell, that's just the way it is these days". The other part of it says that the players themselves are a part of it.

This "oh it's all in the hands of my agent" crap is a cop-out. The players are instructing the agents, "hey, sounds good, just get me as much as you can." Jordan is all in on whatever it is that his agent is doing.

First strike for me on Jordan Love.

Hate to say it, but yeah... I'm exactly at the point myself. The bloom is off the rose. I still like the guy, looking forward to watching him play for the Packers, but I don't look at him the same way. If it turns out Ball was drastically lowballing him, that's a different story, but I don't think that's what's happening.

I remember during the Edmonton Oilers' dynasty, it was Mark Messier's turn to negotiate his contract. At that time, he was widely considered to be one of the top 5 hockey players in the world.

He skipped an agent, and went into Peter Pocklington's office, sat down across the desk, and said straight out - "I know how much you're paying Wayne, Jari, and Grant. I know you can't pay me that much, because you've already paid them so much. I want to stay here and win more cups with this team; you tell me how much you can afford to pay me, and we'll work something out".

A few years later, the Colorado Avalanche.... Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, and and Patrick Roy were the 3 players who made that team unbeatable. All due for contracts in the same off-season. The 3 of them went into the GM's office together, and said, "let's all work together to find a way that you can divide up the available cap space fairly enough to keep us all together for another run."

It can be done. It's been done. Players have the power to say "don't cut the throat of the entire franchise just to feed me."

He just doesn't want to get hurt on some fluke play. It is probably close to being done. jmo

People can say "oh, sure, how badly can a quarterback wearing a bright red shirt get injured in camp?" But remember Tre Greenlaw ripping his Achille's tendon in the Super Bowl when all he was doing was trotting out onto the field after a chance of posession.

 

[Heyjoe4]

My understanding (from what I've read in several articles) is that it is unclear whether Gute can fine the man, since he is showing up in camp every day - just refusing to step on the field. Apparently this is uncharted territory, and it sounds as though even if he thought he could fine him, Gute is not yet willing to do this particular *** for tat.

There may be more clarity on that question in days to come, since this is still early on in the "Oh, yeah, sez who?" stage. I think both sides are deliberately trying to avoid making it overly adversarial. For now.



This is the thing I was so worried about from the beginning. As soon as I found out who represents Love - Dave Mulugheta, regarded as the toughest athlete's agent in the business - I worried it could very easily come to this. Mulugheta never caves; he's the guy who scored the $230 million dollar contract for Deshaun Watson after he was suspended a year for dozens of ****** assault allegations.

If he got that for Watson, with all that baggage hanging over him, how firm do you think he's going to be when he's negotiating for a choirboy face-of-the-franchise like Love?

One of Mulugheta's trademark tactics is to demand contracts with maximum guaranteed money, and one of Russ Ball's best-known tendencies is to not guarantee a dime more in guaranteed money than he absolutely has to. irresistible force, meet immovable object. Love's side is that he's demanding maximum guarenteed money, the team's side is that they don't believe in guaranteed money.

I can't say for sure that this is what's happening here, but it does seem likely. Mulugheta has an extremely strong hand to play (one of the strongest hands he's ever had), and he knows he has Green Bay over a barrel of bottomless depth. He's got very little to lose, and his history suggests that this is what brings out the toughest side of him.



I know... on the one hand, part of says "well, hell, that's just the way it is these days". The other part of it says that the players themselves are a part of it.

This "oh it's all in the hands of my agent" crap is a cop-out. The players are instructing the agents, "hey, sounds good, just get me as much as you can." Jordan is all in on whatever it is that his agent is doing.



Hate to say it, but yeah... I'm exactly at the point myself. The bloom is off the rose. I still like the guy, looking forward to watching him play for the Packers, but I don't look at him the same way. If it turns out Ball was drastically lowballing him, that's a different story, but I don't think that's what's happening.

I remember during the Edmonton Oilers' dynasty, it was Mark Messier's turn to negotiate his contract. At that time, he was widely considered to be one of the top 5 hockey players in the world.

He skipped an agent, and went into Peter Pocklington's office, sat down across the desk, and said straight out - "I know how much you're paying Wayne, Jari, and Grant. I know you can't pay me that much, because you've already paid them so much. I want to stay here and win more cups with this team; you tell me how much you can afford to pay me, and we'll work something out".

A few years later, the Colorado Avalanche.... Joe Sakic, Peter Forsberg, and and Patrick Roy were the 3 players who made that team unbeatable. All due for contracts in the same off-season. The 3 of them went into the GM's office together, and said, "let's all work together to find a way that you can divide up the available cap space fairly enough to keep us all together for another run."

It can be done. It's been done. Players have the power to say "don't cut the throat of the entire franchise just to feed me."




People can say "oh, sure, how badly can a quarterback wearing a bright red shirt get injured in camp?" But remember Tre Greenlaw ripping his Achille's tendon in the Super Bowl when all he was doing was trotting out onto the field after a chance of posession.

Yeah, guys can easily get injured in camp. There was a first round D lineman, can't remember his name, tore his ACL just coming out of a 3 pt stance, in practice, no contact. That was like 10 years ago, not a Packer. J Nelson tore his achilles in a PS game, no contact, just landed wrong. So bad things can happen. I don't blame Love for holding out, but these guys have to get this done this week or it's a bad start to TC, which is very short as it is.

 

[tynimiller]

I agree. It’s not a good look to fans. Although I do like @Pkrjones comment about not wanting to tear an Achilles moments before he signs a Mega Deal. Imagine if he did that this week how much he could lose.

I think it gets settled by this weekend. They should just meet in the middle and move forward.

I get it for sure, however I'll say there is a MUCH different taste to this hold out and I've always said there is a massive difference between a guy holding out and not even being in the city and a guy holding "in" and being there with his team despite his agent essentially controlling the fact they won't be practicing.

I know many view it as quite easy to get a mega QB deal done but it isn't....compound that with the fact Gute just spent YEARS having to I think appease a fanbase, folks in management and Aaron....but also desire to do things how he saw them as "right". He's finally much more free from all of that for the most part...he has no MEGA star(s) to cow to (Rodgers and smaller part Adams)...

...if you're Gute you understand the ripple effect of signing Love to a massive deal. It means far less likelihood many of these young weapons that Love is going to grow with will Love be throwing passes to or handing the ball to come two or three years down the road.

The issue as always for me is the fact these players don't demand they be part of the conversations....instead they place all the negotiations (most players) to their agents...and just do as they're recommended by them.

I have very strong intel that Love has no desire to not be practicing...however he is being advised from many that he trusts their opinion that it would be unwise and downright foolish to risk any injury before the ink hits paper.

I also have strong intel that this isn't likely to reach multi-week level...but who knows.

One thing that seems to be more and more true the longer we go....Gute is one of the best at player scouting and drafting prospects....player acquisitions off of UDFA/PS sniping and such....even roster construction and contract signing with non-QBs...but with QBs...it truly seems to be a different animal altogether.

 

[tynimiller]

Further issue....

This is going to be the biggest contract in the league. If it wasn't going to be or if he/GB are going to mimic Goff or Lawrence this already would be done. Unprecedented figures ALWAYS take longer....

Whether we like it or not - this is happening and our wagon as a whole is getting hitched to Love for minimum three years without massive pain in disconnecting.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Further issue....

This is going to be the biggest contract in the league. If it wasn't going to be or if he/GB are going to mimic Goff or Lawrence this already would be done. Unprecedented figures ALWAYS take longer....

Whether we like it or not - this is happening and our wagon as a whole is getting hitched to Love for minimum three years without massive pain in disconnecting.

Yep, agree. Whether anyone likes it or not, Love is about to become the highest paid player in the NFL. Until the next deal.