The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

That said, the team has better balance than contending teams of the past - just my opinion. Very few teams win a SB without a franchise QB though. Hey, it's a lot better than the alternative. We have a good team and it should be an exciting season. We're a little spoiled in that regard.

We had Two HOF QB's in 20 years and came away with just 2 SB's each,
something is wrong here with the front office and someone should have their @ss kicked.

 

[OldSchool101]

Very few teams win a SB without a franchise QB though.

Amen. On one part I agree with you on that 2-3 years is our best chance. Id maybe extend that out farther if Love is the real deal. think that window opens up across 15 seasons. Although it will come in 3-4 “spurts” of winning formula across that 15 years. I’m not expecting every year to never present challenges either. But yeah we’re poised if Hafley is better than Barry imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

This isn’t meant for anything but corrective and objective observation. If I had to critique the team to improve it etc.
I think Matt is a Top 5 Offensive mind.
Player acquisition and development get an easy Top 10 and possibly top 5 grade.

As far as our GM/HC surrounding itself with top Coordinators? Decisions to stay the course when changes need to happen? There we are slightly above average or maybe top 14.

Postseason pressure decisions? Average at best. Realizing this takes years of experience to refine some end of game decisions also.
Only other detail I think would help is flavoring in some Dan Campbell aggressive postseason demeanor. I’m not speaking to going for it on 4th n 1.5 at our own 25 that’s just stupid. But somewhere in between our current assertiveness and Detroit, yes.
We lean a little too conservative like we’re playing not to lose. You do that in regular season.
In Playoffs it takes a different set of big Blls. Either knock them out? Or be knocked out.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We had Two HOF QB's in 20 years and came away with just 2 SB's each,
something is wrong here with the front office and someone should have their @ss kicked.

Well Ron Wolf is long gone and TT isn't alive. Who would you hold responsible for "just two SBs" in 30 years? Who should get their *** kicked? One? More than one?

Favre threw a very untimely INT in the NFCCG loss to the Giants.

Rodgers certainly choked in a few big games. Rodgers' teams were also not very balanced, especially on D.

Now if you were a MN fan, "just two SBs" in 30 years would be a big deal.

Don't get me wrong. I thought the Packers should have won 3 or 4 SBs during that time. It didn't happen. It's in the past. There's no one to blame. Onward.

 

[Thirteen Below]

We had Two HOF QB's in 20 years and came away with just 2 SB's each,
something is wrong here with the front office and someone should have their @ss kicked.

I like to think that the organization has learned a lot from the mistakes that were mase during the Sherman/Thompson/McCarthy years - the errors in judgment, the missed opportunities, the lack of accountability at all levels, and what often seemed to me like an overconfidence, an unrealistic assessment of their personnel (on the coaching staff as well as on the roster itself.)

Over the 6 years we've had to observe Gutekunst, and the 5 years we've had to watch LaFleur, I feel we've seen a steady pattern of growth within their roles. They both got off to a slow-ish start, which is to be expected, but I think they've both shown an increasing willingness to abandon something that didn't work and move on to something new. That's something you rarely saw from McCarthy or TT, and I don't think Mike Sherman has ever even heard of the concepts.

As Gute/LaFleur have accumulated more successes, their confidence has grown, and there seems to be an increasing boldness to some of their decisions. LaFleur has really made great strides as a coach - much more aggressive and decisive, quick to spot and seize an advantage, not afraid to take unexpected risks, and he's made some very shrewd moves behind the scenes by putting some very talented assistant coaches in the right positions. That's not something you'll ever see in a headline, but I think we saw it on the field every weekend. I think LaFleur needs to grow more as a postseason coach, but that can only come with experience, and I think he learned a lot this January. I'm really impressed by how much improvement Gutekunst seems to have made in scouting, drafting, and personnel management.

I think this team is in a much better position to move forward than it has been in nearly 30 years, and I think most of the people whose ***** needed kicking have already been kicked out the door and down the road. Everybody who's still onboard probably deserves more of a pat on the back.

 

[OldSchool101]

I like to think that the organization has learned a lot from the mistakes that were mase during the Sherman/Thompson/McCarthy years - the errors in judgment, the missed opportunities, the lack of accountability at all levels, and what often seemed to me like an overconfidence, an unrealistic assessment of their personnel (on the coaching staff as well as on the roster itself.)

Over the 6 years we've had to observe Gutekunst, and the 5 years we've had to watch LaFleur, I feel we've seen a steady pattern of growth within their roles. They both got off to a slow-ish start, which is to be expected, but I think they've both shown an increasing willingness to abandon something that didn't work and move on to something new. That's something you rarely saw from McCarthy or TT, and I don't think Mike Sherman has ever even heard of the concepts.

As Gute/LaFleur have accumulated more successes, their confidence has grown, and there seems to be an increasing boldness to some of their decisions. LaFleur has really made great strides as a coach - much more aggressive and decisive, quick to spot and seize an advantage, not afraid to take unexpected risks, and he's made some very shrewd moves behind the scenes by putting some very talented assistant coaches in the right positions. That's not something you'll ever see in a headline, but I think we saw it on the field every weekend. I think LaFleur needs to grow more as a postseason coach, but that can only come with experience, and I think he learned a lot this January. I'm really impressed by how much improvement Gutekunst seems to have made in scouting, drafting, and personnel management.

I think this team is in a much better position to move forward than it has been in nearly 30 years, and I think most of the people whose ***** needed kicking have already been kicked out the door and down the road. Everybody who's still onboard probably deserves more of a pat on the back.

13 I agree.
I also think since Gutey and him bringing in MLF, this is a much better pairing. Since Gutey came in and got signed Amos and ZaDarius snd Preston and Turner and eventually Matt? The acquisitions across the board have been elevated including the draft.

The turning point was the boldness of 2020. Nobody saw it coming but I think Gutey saw the conflict and had to know it was a cancer. We didn’t know it n most of us wanted a WR, but that Love pick might be the best selection of his tenure. Add to that the way we moved around the board and essentially picked up Savage and a 6th by packing a 3rd Rounder the previous draft? Really Savage was a later 3rd collateral.
Picking up J’aire along the way? Really great moves.

It’s like Gutey is hitting overdrive in player acquisition. The 2023 draft might’ve been his best overall outside of 2020 and selecting Love if he repeats last season. If that happens again we’re an NFC powerhouse for at minimum 3 seasons.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I like to think that the organization has learned a lot from the mistakes that were mase during the Sherman/Thompson/McCarthy years - the errors in judgment, the missed opportunities, the lack of accountability at all levels, and what often seemed to me like an overconfidence, an unrealistic assessment of their personnel (on the coaching staff as well as on the roster itself.)

Over the 6 years we've had to observe Gutekunst, and the 5 years we've had to watch LaFleur, I feel we've seen a steady pattern of growth within their roles. They both got off to a slow-ish start, which is to be expected, but I think they've both shown an increasing willingness to abandon something that didn't work and move on to something new. That's something you rarely saw from McCarthy or TT, and I don't think Mike Sherman has ever even heard of the concepts.

As Gute/LaFleur have accumulated more successes, their confidence has grown, and there seems to be an increasing boldness to some of their decisions. LaFleur has really made great strides as a coach - much more aggressive and decisive, quick to spot and seize an advantage, not afraid to take unexpected risks, and he's made some very shrewd moves behind the scenes by putting some very talented assistant coaches in the right positions. That's not something you'll ever see in a headline, but I think we saw it on the field every weekend. I think LaFleur needs to grow more as a postseason coach, but that can only come with experience, and I think he learned a lot this January. I'm really impressed by how much improvement Gutekunst seems to have made in scouting, drafting, and personnel management.

I think this team is in a much better position to move forward than it has been in nearly 30 years, and I think most of the people whose ***** needed kicking have already been kicked out the door and down the road. Everybody who's still onboard probably deserves more of a pat on the back.

Good summary and thanks for making some points about Sherman and MM that I missed. FWIW I think Ron Wolf was much more willing to use all weapons at his disposal - draft, FA, some trades - to give the Packers the best chance. TT was hung up on his "draft and develop" philosophy - and that's fine - but he did it to the almost complete exclusion of FA, and that cost him and the Packers.

And finally, both HOF QBs had their weaknesses. Favre simply threw too many INTs, and in big games. That was just his nature though and I thought he was otherwise ready for the big moments. And he made the same NFCCG mistake with GB and MN, so he was equal opportunity in that regard.

Rodgers on the other hand put up gaudy regular season numbers but seemed a lot more hesitant re: taking risks in the big games. He relied too much on only the guys he trusted too often. He was/is still an incredible QB and gave us a lot of wonderful moments. Well, that's true for Favre and Rodgers. It's Love's turn.

As fans, we've hardly been cheated.

 

[Heyjoe4]

13 I agree.
I also think since Gutey and him bringing in MLF, this is a much better pairing. Since Gutey came in and got signed Amos and ZaDarius snd Preston and Turner and eventually Matt? The acquisitions across the board have been elevated including the draft.

The turning point was the boldness of 2020. Nobody saw it coming but I think Gutey saw the conflict and had to know it was a cancer. We didn’t know it n most of us wanted a WR, but that Love pick might be the best selection of his tenure. Add to that the way we moved around the board and essentially picked up Savage and a 6th by packing a 3rd Rounder the previous draft? Really Savage was a later 3rd collateral.
Picking up J’aire along the way? Really great moves.

It’s like Gutey is hitting overdrive in player acquisition. The 2023 draft might’ve been his best overall outside of 2020 and selecting Love if he repeats last season. If that happens again we’re an NFC powerhouse for at minimum 3 seasons.

By drafting Love Gluten just wanted to make sure "his guy" was ready when Rodgers was done. And in fairness, Rodgers play in the preceding year had not been stellar. Of course he went on to win two consecutive MVPs. But Love's selection was never about Rodgers.

Gluten's mistake was not communicating with Rodgers. In fairness to Rodgers, Gluten should have let him know he was taking a QB early if one showed up - for the long-term health of the franchise, not as a slap to Rodgers. It was weak communication by Gluten, and an overreaction by Rodgers. But it led to two lousy years as far as Rodgers' attitude and team morale.

That's all history too. Looking forward to this season more than I have in a long time.

 

[Poppa San]

TT was hung up on his "draft and develop" philosophy - and that's fine - but he did it to the almost complete exclusion of FA, and that cost him and the Packers.

TT was fine playing all his cards when he started but his well hidden health episode set him on the D&D trajectory that we all remember and question. Without that he may have and probably would have followed a slightly different path.

 

[rmontro]

Good summary and thanks for making some points about Sherman and MM that I missed. FWIW I think Ron Wolf was much more willing to use all weapons at his disposal - draft, FA, some trades - to give the Packers the best chance. TT was hung up on his "draft and develop" philosophy - and that's fine - but he did it to the almost complete exclusion of FA, and that cost him and the Packers.

The rules were different when Wolf was GM though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

TT was fine playing all his cards when he started but his well hidden health episode set him on the D&D trajectory that we all remember and question. Without that he may have and probably would have followed a slightly different path.

That's fair. His health did deteriorate, and it was very hard to watch (although those booth shots of him when he was ailing just seemed mean and voyeuristic). We've just had another very public example of how harmful it really is to not call out problems like this.

Easy for me to say, I'm not there (well, yet, and I hope never). And dealing with people with failing mental faculties is also very hard. They tend to get very angry and defensive and not at all amenable to listening. I've seen it personally. It is very hard to get through.

Either way, thanks for the update on TT. Overall he was a solid GM.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The rules were different when Wolf was GM though.

Thanks rmontro. Can you elaborate on that a bit?

 

[PikeBadger]

That's fair. His health did deteriorate, and it was very hard to watch (although those booth shots of him when he was ailing just seemed mean and voyeuristic). We've just had another very public example of how harmful it really is to not call out problems like this.

Easy for me to say, I'm not there (well, yet, and I hope never). And dealing with people with failing mental faculties is also very hard. They tend to get very angry and defensive and not at all amenable to listening. I've seen it personally. It is very hard to get through.

Either way, thanks for the update on TT. Overall he was a solid GM.

Wow, reminds me of the current situation in other areas of our society

 

[Heyjoe4]

Wow, reminds me of the current situation in other areas of our society

Well, yeah. Whether it's dementia or Alzheimer's Disease, it's very hard to diagnose and deal with. No one wants to approach someone, usually a family member, suggesting they get a cognitive test. The first reaction is almost anger and denial. The condition is left untreated and by the time something is done, it's gotten really bad.

One of the uglier aspects of aging. And it's selective. Thankfully, not all people are affected.

 

[OldSchool101]

But Love's selection was never about Rodgers.

See I disagree. Behind closed doors this was all about Rodgers. First and foremost to replace what would be a huge void he would leave after he’s gone.

Gluten's mistake was not communicating with Rodgers.

Exactly. I’ve said this all along so I 100% agree. Like you, It took me a minute to come to the conclusion once I asked why that was??
Then it hit me one day. There is 0% chance that Gluten overlooked communicating that selection. That wasn’t a slip up it was very, very calculated and well thought out.
GM’s and their staff spend years just contemplating a Day1 selection to begin with. If a QB is in their radar they spend hours and hours contemplating how he’s going to impact the team both immediately and long term.
Let’s just say that I’m convinced this wasn’t an oversight. Murphy not only knew about the possibility of choosing Love, imo he was a driving force behind it. If that is the case.. did Murphy forget to mention it to #12 also?

Choosing Jordan Love was the
“Power Play” version of the Packers Brass. Lead blocker, X n O’s and all mapped out like Madden with a Marker

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

See I disagree. Behind closed doors this was all about Rodgers. First and foremost to replace what would be a huge void he would leave after he’s gone.

Exactly. I’ve said this all along so I 100% agree. Like you, It took me a minute to come to the conclusion once I asked why that was??
Then it hit me one day. There is 0% chance that Gluten overlooked communicating that selection. That wasn’t a slip up it was very, very calculated and well thought out.
GM’s and their staff spend years just contemplating a Day1 selection to begin with. If a QB is in their radar they spend hours and hours contemplating how he’s going to impact the team both immediately and long term.
Let’s just say that I’m convinced this wasn’t an oversight. Murphy not only knew about the possibility of choosing Love, imo he was a driving force behind it. If that is the case.. did Murphy forget to mention it to #12 also?

Choosing Jordan Love was the
“Power Play” version of the Packers Brass. Lead blocker, X n O’s and all mapped out like Madden with a Marker

There is zero doubt in my mind that Love was selected as Rodgers potential replacement. Let's not forget that Rodgers appeared to be showing his age and had three straight seasons of injuries, a drop in TD's and QB ratings below 100. He was also starting to "get a little big for his britches", as my grandmother used to say.

Rodgers responded with 2 great seasons of football.

As far as "communication of the potential selection of Love to him", that's just another BS feigning of being offended move on Rodgers part. I doubt TT or Gute ever serioulsy "consulted" with Rodgers about the draft, nor should they have had to.

 

[OldSchool101]

There is zero doubt in my mind that Love was selected as Rodgers potential replacement. Let's not forget that Rodgers appeared to be showing his age and had three straight seasons of injuries, a drop in TD's and QB ratings below 100. He was also starting to "get a little big for his britches", as my grandmother used to say.

Rodgers responded with 2 great seasons of football.

As far as "communication of the potential selection of Love to him", that's just another BS feigning of being offended move on Rodgers part. I doubt TT or Gute ever serioulsy "consulted" with Rodgers about the draft, nor should they have had to.

Sure. They don’t need to tell Aaron anything it’s not required.
I’m pretty sure when they moved up to get Love it was known it could “hurt some feelings”. They had every opportunity to give #12 adequate warning as this was a very calculated move. I’m quite sure they even talked behind closed doors of options of what to do with Rodgers.

Rodgers resurgence did nothing but delay our plans to move on from him. We know how our team operates with aging players.. “moving on a year too early” is our trademark

 

[Heyjoe4]

See I disagree. Behind closed doors this was all about Rodgers. First and foremost to replace what would be a huge void he would leave after he’s gone.

Exactly. I’ve said this all along so I 100% agree. Like you, It took me a minute to come to the conclusion once I asked why that was??
Then it hit me one day. There is 0% chance that Gluten overlooked communicating that selection. That wasn’t a slip up it was very, very calculated and well thought out.
GM’s and their staff spend years just contemplating a Day1 selection to begin with. If a QB is in their radar they spend hours and hours contemplating how he’s going to impact the team both immediately and long term.
Let’s just say that I’m convinced this wasn’t an oversight. Murphy not only knew about the possibility of choosing Love, imo he was a driving force behind it. If that is the case.. did Murphy forget to mention it to #12 also?

Choosing Jordan Love was the
“Power Play” version of the Packers Brass. Lead blocker, X n O’s and all mapped out like Madden with a Marker

Well Love's selection was about replacing Rodgers, eventually. Poor choice of words by me. I don't even remember the context of the rest of the comment.

And yeah, now that Love has turned out to be the real deal (very likely), it's easy to say everything Gluten did in picking Love was correct. That's just not the case. People here, including me, questioned the pick and the lousy communications by Gluten for a few years. I'm not gonna rewrite history because I was wrong, along with a lot of others.

So saying there is "0% chance that Gluten overlooked communicating the selection" is just wrong. Even Gluten admitted it. How quickly we forget.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

They had every opportunity to give #12 adequate warning as this was a very calculated move. I’m quite sure they even talked behind closed doors of options of what to do with Rodgers.

My opinion, for what its worth.

I'm not so sure that drafting Love was all that calculated. He just happened to be one of many players that was high on their board and suddenly dropped far enough in the 1st round to be within their reach. It wasn't like they traded way up in the first round to get him either. The opportunity and final decision to do so probably happened quite quickly in the draft room and I really doubt in those few minutes anyone said "Maybe we should consult with/warn Aaron first about this?"

As far as letting Rodgers know pre-draft that they had a QB ranked high in the first round? Just not necessary, if consulting with Rodgers about the draft wasn't something they ever did.

Aaron definitely has an ego, but so do the guys working the draft room. I've had people that have worked for me that I really liked and appreciated, but sometimes you have to draw the lines pretty clearly as to what is and isn't their responsibility.

 

[gopkrs]

My opinion, for what its worth.

I'm not so sure that drafting Love was all that calculated. He just happened to be one of many players that was high on their board and suddenly dropped far enough in the 1st round to be within their reach. It wasn't like they traded way up in the first round to get him either. The opportunity and final decision to do so probably happened quite quickly in the draft room and I really doubt in those few minutes anyone said "Maybe we should consult with/warn Aaron first about this?"

As far as letting Rodgers know pre-draft that they had a QB ranked high in the first round? Just not necessary, if consulting with Rodgers about the draft wasn't something they ever did.

Aaron definitely has an ego, but so do the guys working the draft room. I've had people that have worked for me that I really liked and appreciated, but sometimes you have to draw the lines pretty clearly as to what is and isn't their responsibility.

I don't think it was calculated either. But based on the look on LaFleur's face (he was really happy with that pick), I'd say they were hoping they would be able to get him. It was an amazing forum that night. Some people were just going crazy with grief and anger. It was ridiculous.

 

[AmishMafia]

Fun to look back:

2020 Packers first round pick: Jordan Love, QB

WOW!!!!!

www.packerforum.com

A lot of fans are bigger fans of a particular player than the team.


Some gems from the first 20 posts of the thread:

How many first round picks is Gute gonna waste?



This is a WTF moment.



This might literally be the first time i’ve given you an agree.



Horrible pick. Atrocious.



WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!?



Team couldnt stop the run in the game to make it to the Superbowl, and you trade up for a quarterback? You don't try and fix the gaping hole in the middle of the field? You don't even get the future HOF QB another weapon?



Glad I watched for 4 hours for that.



Disaster pick. Gute just sent the franchise into nuclear winter. Talk about killing the locker room. The whole team knows Gute could care less about winning for the next three seasons. This is a rebuilding pick.

 

[AmishMafia]

Found the winner:

Rashan Gary at 12 was bad. This is worse.

Just a horrible pick. I'm done with this team. F you Gutey.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't think it was calculated either. But based on the look on LaFleur's face (he was really happy with that pick), I'd say they were hoping they would be able to get him. It was an amazing forum that night. Some people were just going crazy with grief and anger. It was ridiculous.

Fun to look back:

2020 Packers first round pick: Jordan Love, QB

WOW!!!!!

www.packerforum.com

A lot of fans are bigger fans of a particular player than the team.


Some gems from the first 20 posts of the thread:

How many first round picks is Gute gonna waste?



This is a WTF moment.



This might literally be the first time i’ve given you an agree.



Horrible pick. Atrocious.



WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!?



Team couldnt stop the run in the game to make it to the Superbowl, and you trade up for a quarterback? You don't try and fix the gaping hole in the middle of the field? You don't even get the future HOF QB another weapon?



Glad I watched for 4 hours for that.



Disaster pick. Gute just sent the franchise into nuclear winter. Talk about killing the locker room. The whole team knows Gute could care less about winning for the next three seasons. This is a rebuilding pick.

Turns out a lot of Packer fans were wrong about the pick for sure. I admit being shocked by it, but much like the Gary pick, once I read about Love, I totally understood it and got behind it.

Too often us Packer fans don't know the inside workings and lack that information to really understand what Gute and the Packers are doing. I am really glad that he saw the need to pick both Gary and Love, because at the time of each pick, those were 2 positions I did not think were going to be addressed in the 1st round.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Found the winner:

Spanky who?

Did we put him on the forum waiver list? Haven't seen him since January.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I just wanna know who’s ready for Da Bears football tmrw night baby!!!
Gets the Nature Boi’s “Whooooooooooooooooooooo”!!!!!!!