Studs n duds Miami

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree, injuries in a season is unavoidable, but the ability to overcome those injuries has been inconsistent all year. Someone is hurt, sub and game plan. Something has been off about the game planning around injuries this year.

I don't know about that. Since Game #1, something has been off with both the offense and the defense. Offense, I think it was a lack of receiving weapons and maybe a so so OL. Defense, I still think is coaching. We have a crap load of talent on that side of the ball and they are playing way too inconsistent to not point the finger at coaching. Losing Stokes and Gary stung a bit, but Stokes wasn't having a good year and I think others have filled in nicely at both CB and OLB. The loss of Campbell for several games might have had the biggest impact on the defense.

 

[gopkrs]

There is no doubt in my mind that Gute had to pay JA that much or he walks. JA wasn't going to settle for anything less than top money. I cautioned it at the time and was told I was crazy by some, same goes with Bahk.

I agree about Bahk but I think your slamming Jaire way too much. imho

 

[MadCat]

Tua in concussion protocol. Might explain the bad INTs.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree about Bahk but I think your slamming Jaire way too much. imho

I think maybe he’s rebounded or something. Doesn’t look too bad. His completion % is admittedly a smidge high at 59.7% over his career 56.78% completions.

In 2022,
J’aire has 5 INT (career high)
(Jalen Ramsey 2INT)

13PD in 13 full games, not including 6 snaps @ Tampa, is on pace with his career high of 17 in 2019
(Jalen Ramsey 14)

His 63.8% Passer Rating when targeted is a career best.
(Jalen Ramsey 98.6%)

His 9.2 average depth of target is a career best (9.5 in 2020)
(Jalen Ramsey 8.2)

His 12.2 yds/comp is almost exactly his career mean (12.0)
(Jalen Ramsey 11.2 in 2022)

His 7.0% missed tackles rating is a career best (8.9% in 2020; 12.1% in 2019; 10.8% in 2018)
(Jalen Ramsey 7.3)

He posted a career high 4TFL. He’s pacing in that 60 tackles area, which is his 2nd best behind his 2018 rookie season. (Jalen Ramsey 4TFL and pacing 90 Tackles!) that guy is all over the place!

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't know about that. Since Game #1, something has been off with both the offense and the defense. Offense, I think it was a lack of receiving weapons and maybe a so so OL. Defense, I still think is coaching. We have a crap load of talent on that side of the ball and they are playing way too inconsistent to not point the finger at coaching. Losing Stokes and Gary stung a bit, but Stokes wasn't having a good year and I think others have filled in nicely at both CB and OLB. The loss of Campbell for several games might have had the biggest impact on the defense.

You pretty much nail what happened this year. STs did get better, and I'm hoping that trend continues next year.

But yeah looking at the talent on D, with the exception of S and DL (they need one more star to complement Clark), the D was stocked. Barry just can't run a defensive unit. He played a soft zone all year, well off the LOS, and that's the opposite of what should be done with athletic corners.

I expect this will be Crosby's next year. His Fg kicking is fine, but he rarely gets a kickoff into the end zone. Ultimately that means more injuries.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think maybe he’s rebounded or something. Doesn’t look too bad

In 2022,
J’aire has 5 INT (career high)
(Jalen Ramsey 2INT)

13PD in 13 full games is on pace with his career high of 17 in 2019
(Jalen Ramsey 14)

His 63.8% Passer Rating when targeted is a career best.
(Jalen Ramsey 98.6%)

His 9.2 average depth of target is a career best (9.5 in 2020)
(Jalen Ramsey 8.2)

His 12.2 yds/comp is almost exactly his career mean (12.0)
(Jalen Ramsey 11.2 in 2022)

His 7.0% missed tackles rating is a career best (8.9% in 2020; 12.1% in 2019; 10.8% in 2018)
(Jalen Ramsey 7.3)

He posted a career high 4TFL. He’s pacing in that 60 tackles area, which is his 2nd best behind his 2018 rookie season. (Jalen Ramsey 4TFL)

Interesting stats, thanks.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree, injuries in a season is unavoidable, but the ability to overcome those injuries has been inconsistent all year. Someone is hurt, sub and game plan. Something has been off about the game planning around injuries this year.

With the exception of QB, I'm not so sure game planning changes dramatically with injuries. And it seemed like the subs did well this year.

 

[JKramer64]

Agreed and "Gun shy" is really the term that I have been trying to think of, thank you!

I have watched him when at games and once in awhile on TV when they actually have him in the picture (he often is far away from the action). I can't imagine that the coaches haven't picked up on it and said something to try and get him more involved. Hardly a play goes by when I don't see CB's from the Packers or other teams, up in the mass piles of people trying to make the tackle, but rarely do I see Alexander in those "scrums".

"Gun shy" aka "business decision". Kinda like the way Deion Sanders played. Problem is JA has an ego as big as Prime and can't quite back it up. He squawked after the first MIN game about wanting to go man on Jefferson. Now with the season on the line, Barry and MLF need to make it happen. Make JA put up or shut up and earn his money.

 

[milani]

Tua in concussion protocol. Might explain the bad INTs.

It can. Although he was still making good throws in between them. Recall how Favre once had to go out and before they could check him for the concussion he runs back into the game and throws a TD.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Not after a few too many drinks it’s not. Just Look again!


OldSchool101 said:

I got 1 word

MERRYCHRISTMAS !

oh those blokes with their semantics!

 

[swhitset]

oh ok. Yeah right. I’ve gotta hear this. Who disproved that cold weather and wind Doesn’t affect the accuracy or distance a football travels?? Now even Mother Nature is being marginalized!
This ought to be a good one!

PS. Tell me you’re not that Captain that drove the Titanic into an iceberg because you said it was barely even Icey

Do you really want him to roll out the stats to prove it ? Again? really ? please say no lol.

 

[Jayzee1981]

I think maybe he’s rebounded or something. Doesn’t look too bad. His completion % is admittedly a smidge high at 59.7% over his career 56.78% completions.

In 2022,
J’aire has 5 INT (career high)
(Jalen Ramsey 2INT)

13PD in 13 full games, not including 6 snaps @ Tampa, is on pace with his career high of 17 in 2019
(Jalen Ramsey 14)

His 63.8% Passer Rating when targeted is a career best.
(Jalen Ramsey 98.6%)

His 9.2 average depth of target is a career best (9.5 in 2020)
(Jalen Ramsey 8.2)

His 12.2 yds/comp is almost exactly his career mean (12.0)
(Jalen Ramsey 11.2 in 2022)

His 7.0% missed tackles rating is a career best (8.9% in 2020; 12.1% in 2019; 10.8% in 2018)
(Jalen Ramsey 7.3)

He posted a career high 4TFL. He’s pacing in that 60 tackles area, which is his 2nd best behind his 2018 rookie season. (Jalen Ramsey 4TFL and pacing 90 Tackles!) that guy is all over the place!

Thank you for sharing

 

[Cornelius Weems]

With the exception of QB, I'm not so sure game planning changes dramatically with injuries. And it seemed like the subs did well this year.

IDK what you are getting at, if a key player is hurt, the game plan changes somewhat. If a player is out, like a WR is out, or big time RB. Based on experience, QB is not the only position that matters. I can't speak for the NFL, but we always had to change up our plan of attack in school. But like I said, I don't know about the NFL personally.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The distance from which the average kick is attempted has more to do with the decisions of the coaches, as to whether or not they want to kick longer field goals or not.

In other words, the statistic doesn't mean jack $*** in reality. It's simply a stat that says how far they are kicking the ball, says nothing about leg strength, accuracy, or even whether or not there is trust in the kicker, on the part of the coaches.

Answer this one question for yourself. How often have you seen the Packers walk away from a FG attempt at 50 to 55 yards, when conditions are good, and they need one. I don't recall this every being the issue with Crosby. His 12 for 17 at over 50 have all come in the last 4 years, so your argument is totally wrong. Sorry.

You're fooling yourself when you truly believe the coaching staff doesn't make those decisions based on their trust in Crosby to make long field goals. As I previously mentioned the Packers have attempted a fourth down between the opponent's 22 and 40 yard line this season on a higher percentage than only two teams in the league. That strongly indicates they don't have any confidence in Crosby to hit from that distance.

You honestly think he’s going to throw Rodgers under the bus publicly to the media? Cmon.

and I'm gonna have to take the blame for global warming

Lazard went out of his way to take the blame for the interception, there was no reason for it. Of course, as I predicted when I posted it the first time, it won't prevent some fans from continuing to put it on Rodgers for whatever reason.

I'm not sure about that. And how is it significant when nobody is sacking Rodgers from that side?

First of all Bakhtiari is an upgrade in run blocking. In addition the Packers don't need to put an extra blocker in as long as he's starting at left tackle.

oh ok. Yeah right. I’ve gotta hear this. Who disproved that cold weather and wind Doesn’t affect the accuracy or distance a football travels?? Now even Mother Nature is being marginalized!

I never mentioned anything about cold weather and wind not factoring into the performance of field goal kickers. It's a myth that it's tougher to kick at Lambeau Field than most other stadiums though. You might want to go back and take a look at the numbers I posted some time ago:

Packers sign P Pat O'Donnell

Crosby's stats for 2019 & 2020. Nobody seems to think about that. The two best years of his career. 2019 - He was 22-24, 91.7%, and his misses were one over 50 yards, and one over 40 yards. 2020 - He was a perfect 16 for 16. That's 100%! That hardly sounds like the guy that I'm hearing has...

www.packerforum.com

I’ll also add that Captain is using “Total FGM. I showed conclusive evidence inside 50 that Mason is superior in making FG. He’s using a stat that’s skewed because Mason has had very few attempts past 50 this season.

It's not a skewed stat at all, even if you take a look at the average of field goal attempts Crosby (36.26) is significantly below the league average (39.40).

Had Mason hit just ONE 50+ he’d be 88% kicking and leading the league!!

What??? Jason Myers is leading the league at 96.4% field goals made this season.

Put it this way. In 1964 Lombardi would have been thrilled to have a kicker like Crosby. If he had we would not be talking 3 straight championships. We'd be talking 4.

You understand that kickers were significantly worse back in those days, don't you???

The Captain gave me a concrete stat of....JA is 8th in the league in lowest passer rating when targeted. IF you think that is a slam dunk indicator of JA is playing like the highest paid CB in the NFL, you need to look at more things. Did you look at the PFF Stats I posted? Probably not, because your eyes tell you different. You will have to go to page two and down to the 73rd CB listed.

NFL CB Position Grades | PFF

PFF's exclusive metrics provide Cornerback (CB) position rankings, grades, and snap counts.

www.pff.com

I'm not sure where you have that numbers from but according to PFF Alexander is currently graded as the 11th best cornerback in the league with at least 200 snaps played. As a hint, they don't have them ranked according to their grades if you don't have a subscription in the link you provided.

There is no doubt in my mind that Gute had to pay JA that much or he walks. JA wasn't going to settle for anything less than top money. I cautioned it at the time and was told I was crazy by some, same goes with Bahk. I'm not trying to act like I knew JA or Bahk would give us less than we paid for, but I do know its a HUGE risk to pay guys the top, guaranteed money for their positions, especially when you already have a bunch of guys at or near the top already. Add up Rodgers, Bahk, Jones, Clark, Smith, Amos and Alexanders salaries and you have a very top cap heavy team. Can't imagine what it would look like had they paid Adams. Honestly though, I would have rather seen Adams stay and lose JA. Rashan Gary is about to be added to that list. Love the guy, but hope they don't overpay him.

The Packers would be a terrible team if they let all of their blue chip players walk away while not offering them contracts at market value as you suggest.

 

[Voyageur]

No. I'm not "fooling myself," as you suggested. I'm stating a fact, based on what I do know coaches do. I pointed out that Crosby hadn't even tried for 50+ kicks until the last 4 years. Over this period of time, he's 12-17. Compare it to others around the league.

Now, if you were right, and he didn't have the leg strength, and was aging, why would they suddenly start having him kick longer FGs when he's older, after his leg strength had diminished? Obviously your stats don't mean squat in this situation, and the reality of him actually attempting them, and having what's a pretty good record for kicks of that distance, none of what you said really carries any weight.

Fact - NFL FG percentage over 50 yards is around 72%. Crosby is at 71%. He's right on average, and his kicking them that far has only been over 4 years. You're trying to say his leg suddenly got stronger but weaker, because he's old. That doesn't make sense. You're totally ignoring the fact that the Packers have been notorious at not insuring that the long snapper and holder are in sync with the kicker. Even LeFleur admitted that was their problem, not a lack of belief in Crosby.

But, since Crosby will probably be gone next year, due to salary, we can start talking about how pathetic the situation is with the new guy, who can't make the clutch kick. That should be a lot of fun.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As I previously mentioned the Packers have attempted a fourth down between the opponent's 22 and 40 yard line this season on a higher percentage than only two teams in the league. That strongly indicates they don't have any confidence in Crosby to hit from that distance.

It can strongly indicate some other things as well. The Packers were playing from behind and felt 7 was far more important than 3. It can mean that it was 4th and very short and MLF was confident they could pick it up. It can mean Rodgers caught the defense off guard and trying to substitute. It can mean many things. Basically, don't always jump to the one conclusion that supports your theory, without at least addressing the others.

Maybe put each 4th down situation into the context that it was and THEN make your conclusions?

For example. Take 2 teams that went for it on 4th down 20 times during the season. One was successful 18 times, the other 10. Do you conclude that the first team is far better on 4th down than the second team? Or do you dig deeper and notice that that first team averaged 4th and 1.5 yards on their 20 tries and the second team was 4th and 7.6 yards on all their tries?

 

[OldSchool101]

Do you really want him to roll out the stats to prove it ? Again? really ? please say no lol.

No please dear Lord! It would be like someone trying to convince you that you’re skin is made of Polyester microfibers.

Just about Everyone knows first hand that combining temperature and wind is exponential as the thermostat drops. You know better Swhitset, you’re from my home town. We walk backwards in the winter wind. Literally!

Weather past about Octoberfest timeframe increasingly becomes a factor for outside sports. If not, opponents wouldn’t try to simulate those harsh conditions. btw, the Vikings are practicing outside this week.

 

[milani]

You're fooling yourself when you truly believe the coaching staff doesn't make those decisions based on their trust in Crosby to make long field goals. As I previously mentioned the Packers have attempted a fourth down between the opponent's 22 and 40 yard line this season on a higher percentage than only two teams in the league. That strongly indicates they don't have any confidence in Crosby to hit from that distance.





Lazard went out of his way to take the blame for the interception, there was no reason for it. Of course, as I predicted when I posted it the first time, it won't prevent some fans from continuing to put it on Rodgers for whatever reason.



First of all Bakhtiari is an upgrade in run blocking. In addition the Packers don't need to put an extra blocker in as long as he's starting at left tackle.



I never mentioned anything about cold weather and wind not factoring into the performance of field goal kickers. It's a myth that it's tougher to kick at Lambeau Field than most other stadiums though. You might want to go back and take a look at the numbers I posted some time ago:

Packers sign P Pat O'Donnell

Crosby's stats for 2019 & 2020. Nobody seems to think about that. The two best years of his career. 2019 - He was 22-24, 91.7%, and his misses were one over 50 yards, and one over 40 yards. 2020 - He was a perfect 16 for 16. That's 100%! That hardly sounds like the guy that I'm hearing has...

www.packerforum.com

It's not a skewed stat at all, even if you take a look at the average of field goal attempts Crosby (36.26) is significantly below the league average (39.40).



What??? Jason Myers is leading the league at 96.4% field goals made this season.



You understand that kickers were significantly worse back in those days, don't you???



I'm not sure where you have that numbers from but according to PFF Alexander is currently graded as the 11th best cornerback in the league with at least 200 snaps played. As a hint, they don't have them ranked according to their grades if you don't have a subscription in the link you provided.



The Packers would be a terrible team if they let all of their blue chip players walk away while not offering them contracts at market value as you suggest.

I understand that place kickers back in the day were not usually specialists. They were position players. Even Lou Groza played a position early in his career. But 12 for 39? That was not norm. It was horrific! Even then.

You're fooling yourself when you truly believe the coaching staff doesn't make those decisions based on their trust in Crosby to make long field goals. As I previously mentioned the Packers have attempted a fourth down between the opponent's 22 and 40 yard line this season on a higher percentage than only two teams in the league. That strongly indicates they don't have any confidence in Crosby to hit from that distance.





Lazard went out of his way to take the blame for the interception, there was no reason for it. Of course, as I predicted when I posted it the first time, it won't prevent some fans from continuing to put it on Rodgers for whatever reason.



First of all Bakhtiari is an upgrade in run blocking. In addition the Packers don't need to put an extra blocker in as long as he's starting at left tackle.



I never mentioned anything about cold weather and wind not factoring into the performance of field goal kickers. It's a myth that it's tougher to kick at Lambeau Field than most other stadiums though. You might want to go back and take a look at the numbers I posted some time ago:

Packers sign P Pat O'Donnell

Crosby's stats for 2019 & 2020. Nobody seems to think about that. The two best years of his career. 2019 - He was 22-24, 91.7%, and his misses were one over 50 yards, and one over 40 yards. 2020 - He was a perfect 16 for 16. That's 100%! That hardly sounds like the guy that I'm hearing has...

www.packerforum.com

It's not a skewed stat at all, even if you take a look at the average of field goal attempts Crosby (36.26) is significantly below the league average (39.40).



What??? Jason Myers is leading the league at 96.4% field goals made this season.



You understand that kickers were significantly worse back in those days, don't you???



I'm not sure where you have that numbers from but according to PFF Alexander is currently graded as the 11th best cornerback in the league with at least 200 snaps played. As a hint, they don't have them ranked according to their grades if you don't have a subscription in the link you provided.



The Packers would be a terrible team if they let all of their blue chip players walk away while not offering them contracts at market value as you suggest.

I am quite aware that place kickers back in the day were not specialists. But come on! 12-39 even then was not bad. It was horrific! The Packers had the top offense in the NFL or right next to it during those years. They did not need a HOF kicker. An average one would have meant another title. And back then you realize that the goal posts were on the goal line meaning a 50 yard FG today was only 40 then. And hash marks were wider on the field at the time meaning that place kicks had to be made from a wider angle unless the previously tackle was made closer to the center of the field.

 

[Voyageur]

All everyone needs to know about the evolution of goal posts.

Genealogy of American Football: Evolution of goal posts

A field standard, this invention has gone through some transformations

www.bigblueview.com

 

[gopkrs]

Was just rewatching and our D line was playing well. Slater, Reed, Clark and Wyatt look pretty sound when 3 of them are in along with Preston, we won't get killed right up the gut like we have been. At least not when Slater is at nose tackle. The danger right now imho is not setting the edge or setting the edge too much to allow the runner cutting into the line right about where the tackle is. Just inside him. And on passing downs rotate 2 of Reed, Clark and Wyatt with two DE/OL. Preston and ??? There were several different players out there like Enagbare and Hollins that were looking good imho. And a blitz sometimes. I would like to see a delayed blitz with somebody coming in after they see the space open up, from the inside or outside. I just feel like our D line could actually start looking the part. Especially against the run.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No. I'm not "fooling myself," as you suggested. I'm stating a fact, based on what I do know coaches do. I pointed out that Crosby hadn't even tried for 50+ kicks until the last 4 years. Over this period of time, he's 12-17. Compare it to others around the league.

Now, if you were right, and he didn't have the leg strength, and was aging, why would they suddenly start having him kick longer FGs when he's older, after his leg strength had diminished? Obviously your stats don't mean squat in this situation, and the reality of him actually attempting them, and having what's a pretty good record for kicks of that distance, none of what you said really carries any weight.

Fact - NFL FG percentage over 50 yards is around 72%. Crosby is at 71%. He's right on average, and his kicking them that far has only been over 4 years. You're trying to say his leg suddenly got stronger but weaker, because he's old. That doesn't make sense. You're totally ignoring the fact that the Packers have been notorious at not insuring that the long snapper and holder are in sync with the kicker. Even LeFleur admitted that was their problem, not a lack of belief in Crosby.

I enjoy having profound conversations about Packers related topics but it's impossible to have one if some of you continue to make things up and act as if those "facts" you present are actually true.

Please tell me where you got the idea from that Crosby hasn't tried 50+ yards field goals up until the last four seasons??? Actually he attempted a total of 64 FGs from at least 50 yards over his first 12 years with the team for an average of 5.33 attempts per season but since the start of the 2019 season has only attempted a total of 12 (3.00 per year).

Over his career Crosby has actually made only 55.3% of his attempts from 50+ yards, significantly below the league average of 62.3% of that period.

It can strongly indicate some other things as well. The Packers were playing from behind and felt 7 was far more important than 3. It can mean that it was 4th and very short and MLF was confident they could pick it up. It can mean Rodgers caught the defense off guard and trying to substitute. It can mean many things. Basically, don't always jump to the one conclusion that supports your theory, without at least addressing the others.

Actually you're the one jumping to only one conclusion which is that despite of tons of facts indicating Crosby has been a below average kicker for most of his career he isn't the one to blame for it for whatever obscure reason.

BTW nice job of conveniently ignoring the fact that PFF has Alexanders considerably ranked higher than you suggested

I understand that place kickers back in the day were not usually specialists. They were position players. Even Lou Groza played a position early in his career. But 12 for 39? That was not norm. It was horrific! Even then.

I am quite aware that place kickers back in the day were not specialists. But come on! 12-39 even then was not bad. It was horrific! The Packers had the top offense in the NFL or right next to it during those years. They did not need a HOF kicker. An average one would have meant another title. And back then you realize that the goal posts were on the goal line meaning a 50 yard FG today was only 40 then. And hash marks were wider on the field at the time meaning that place kicks had to be made from a wider angle unless the previously tackle was made closer to the center of the field.

Don't get me wrong, the Packers were terrible kicking field goals in 1964, ranking dead last in percentage made that season.

My point was that it would have been unrealistic to expect any of them to put up numbers like Crosby as field goal kickers weren't specialists at that point in NFL history.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually you're the one jumping to only one conclusion which is that despite of tons of facts indicating Crosby has been a below average kicker for most of his career he isn't the one to blame for it for whatever obscure reason.

Nice deflection. You made a definitive statement about the coaches trust in Crosby is low due to them choosing to go for it on 4th down. I gave you several reasons why your theory is very speculative and suspect. I don't consider your theory here as "tons of facts."

 

[Voyageur]

I enjoy having profound conversations about Packers related topics but it's impossible to have one if some of you continue to make things up and act as if those "facts" you present are actually true.

Please tell me where you got the idea from that Crosby hasn't tried 50+ yards field goals up until the last four seasons??? Actually he attempted a total of 64 FGs from at least 50 yards over his first 12 years with the team for an average of 5.33 attempts per season but since the start of the 2019 season has only attempted a total of 12 (3.00 per year).

Over his career Crosby has actually made only 55.3% of his attempts from 50+ yards, significantly below the league average of 62.3% of that period.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
​

I guess the NFL isn't aware of your suggestion that he has tried so many long kicks? Here's Crosby's career stats. The stats are there, they are from the NFL.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

 

[Voyageur]

Here's the stats from Wiki. Completely different than those from NFL. Obviously, the NFL stats are totally wrong. They differ with you too, at roughly 57%. I guess one of the problems is that we see so many sets of stats and some are totally wrong. I know NFL is.... Now!

But, I still stand by what I've seen on the field in response to specific situations. The stats just don't show he's a bad kicker.

Mason Crosby - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[gopkrs]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this but we were really lucky the Dolphins did not challenge that Mercedes Lewis long catch. And we sure took our sweet time hiking the ball. That was a really great throw.