Studs n duds Miami

[Mondio]

Crosby does look like he's lost some leg strength to me. He also looks like he's pretty consistent and reliable. If all he can kick are 47 on in, but does it consistently, well if they can't find someone that can kick those as consistently and has some more leg strength, I don't care if they try to keep him. It's not really better to replace him with someone that can boot a 55 yarder sometimes, but misses more overall. it's not as easy to replace kickers as people think.

 

[PackAttack12]

Agreed. Now pressure from Rodgers since the TB NFC Championship game I believe is a real thing

Unfortunately, I do agree with this statement.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually, Alexander is currently their 11th best graded cornerback this season

Thanks, that makes me feel so much better that we made him the highest paid CB in the NFL.

 

[Mondio]

Thanks, that makes me feel so much better that we made him the highest paid CB in the NFL.

And In 2020 he ranked #1 of all DBs in the league in both completion percentage and yards per catch. He had 3 seasons prior of below 50% allowed. He gave up like 300 yards one year. He was rated as a top 10 player at any position in the league by team execs and the lost goes on.

It’s not as if they paid some scrub this money.

And by next year he won’t be the top paid anymore and he’ll still be top 10 and the next year he’ll be further down the pay list and still top 10. Kind of like Crosby contract

 

[PackAttack12]

Thanks, that makes me feel so much better that we made him the highest paid CB in the NFL.

A down year for Jaire is still performing around top 10. What a bum!

 

[Voyageur]

Not all of the issues related to what appears to be Jaire's coverage out there is on him. Some of it is on guys who were supposed to rotate over, and protect over the top, and some on the assignments given by the coaching staff. Since they play so often in zone coverage, it can be deceiving. That doesn't give him a pass for the mistakes that he obviously has made though. Those you live with. He's a good CB, but not a top 5 or 6 in the league.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A down year for Jaire is still performing around top 10. What a bum!

I never called him a bum, nor did I say he was terrible or even average. I made the point that he appears to be playing tentatively and is not playing as well as he has in the past. You and a few others might be happy and content with him, but I think the guy can play a lot better.

 

[Voyageur]

I never called him a bum, nor did I say he was terrible or even average. I made the point that he appears to be playing tentatively and is not playing as well as he has in the past. You and a few others might be happy and content with him, but I think the guy can play a lot better.

He can play better. He had years in the past where he did. Because we've seen those years, it makes me question the coaching decisions related to coverage. He isn't old enough to say his skills have eroded.

 

[Mondio]

I never called him a bum, nor did I say he was terrible or even average. I made the point that he appears to be playing tentatively and is not playing as well as he has in the past. You and a few others might be happy and content with him, but I think the guy can play a lot better.

meanwhile none of us have said he can't play better. I think to a man we've all said he can and should be playing better. Repeatedly. But in true "pokerbrat" fashion you make some ridiculous quip again regarding the exact opposite as pretty much every single person on this topic has said. You know what has been done repeatedly by you, allude to re-signing him to be a bad deal, as in we shouldn't have and it was a mistake to pay one of the top DB's in the league. Deny it. And don't act like you won't read this LOL

 

[Voyageur]

I don't think any of us are on a different page. We just see it a little differently, but arrive at the same result. It's obvious he could be playing better. We just voice what the problem is a little differently.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He can play better. He had years in the past where he did. Because we've seen those years, it makes me question the coaching decisions related to coverage. He isn't old enough to say his skills have eroded.

I don't think any of us are on a different page. We just see it a little differently, but arrive at the same result. It's obvious he could be playing better. We just voice what the problem is a little differently.

Seems like when you criticize a player, some will jump all over that as you calling said player a bum. I've noticed that with Rodgers, Bahk and a few other players.

Anyway, I have said countless times that JA is a good CB, but his play this year hasn't lived up to his previous years or his contract. Call it scheme, coaching, injury, change in mental attitude or a bit of each, he is off. Considering Barry seems to be running the same scheme and there has been no talk of him having a hidden injury, of course I am going to put it on JA. All one has to do is watch him on the field, he isn't the same player as he was.

 

[Schultz]

Packers activate 2nd kicker for kickoffs vs. MN?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers activate 2nd kicker for kickoffs vs. MN?

Yeah, they don't think Mason can kick a FG longer than 30 yards.

Sounds like they want to use Ahmed’s stronger (than Crosby) leg on kickoffs as a way to help combat explosive Vikings returner Kene Nwangwu, who ranks No. 2 in NFL with a 26.0-yard average. Crosby has also been dealing with a back problem for most of the season, so that might be part of it too.

 

[milani]

Yeah, they don't think Mason can kick a FG longer than 30 yards.

Sounds like they want to use Ahmed’s stronger (than Crosby) leg on kickoffs as a way to help combat explosive Vikings returner Kene Nwangwu, who ranks No. 2 in NFL with a 26.0-yard average. Crosby has also been dealing with a back problem for most of the season, so that might be part of it too.

Going all out for one game.

 

[swhitset]

I'm sorry but it's not my responsibility to prove one of your points. If you believe there's another legit reason aside of Crosby's lack of leg strength for the Packers to go for it more often than other teams on fourth down do the research on your own and back it up.

As a side note, I wasn't talking about me having presented a ton of facts on that specific topic but about Crosby being a below average kicker for most of his tenure over the past few years.

BTW as you brought in PFF's grades regarding Alexander (something you have continued to ignore you were completely off base) here's Crosby's rankings on kickoffs according to them:

Among the 32 kickers with the most attempts on kickoffs he's dead last in grade (22.0, next one at 31.6, 27 above 50), yards per attempt (61.4, they actually track the average yards the ball travelled even if it results in a touchback), percentage returned (80.6%, next closest at 53.8%) and hang time (3.60 seconds, something you claimed Bisaccia has him kick shorter but higher kicks).



That's actually pretty embarassing for the NFL website.



No, it's pretty easy to find accurate stats. If you take a closer look at the one's posted on Wikipedia they don't have any information for this season in which Crosby is 0-for-2 on 50+ yard field goals. Therefore he's 42-for-76 (55.3%) over his career.

FYI if you're interested in up-to-date, accurate numbers Pro Football Reference is the website to use. Here's a link to Crosby's profile:

Mason Crosby Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Mason Crosby. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

That's where I completely disagree. The numbers (actually nearly every single random metric that has been brought up over the past few years) strongly suggests that Crosby has been a below average kicker for most of his career. Yet Packers fans tend to ignore it for some unknown reason.



Prove me wrong.

Come on Cap… that’s about the weakest argument ive ever seen you make. You have drawn a conclusion on a statistic that happens to support the point you are desperately trying to make. Other possible reasons that on their face are just as likely have been suggested. Your response is that the burden of Proof is on Poker when it was you that made the original claim.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This has zero to do with players.

As mentioned above what about Gutekunst exercising the fifth year option on Savage? Bisaccia sticking with Amari as the returner?

Bottom line, general managers and coaches make mistakes.

I'm certainly glad you're not coaching the Packers. We'd be cutting people for "statistical reasons," not the reality of how well they play the game.

I'm definitely glad I'm not coaching the Packers as well as I don't have anywhere the knowledge for doing the job. No idea where you got the idea from that I suggested to be qualified for it.

But just to clarify you would be terrible at it as well.

I'm always reminded of Eddie George. His career stats show he averaged 3.6 yards per carry. Obviously not very good by statistical standards. Should have been cut early on. Yet, here we are, with him having amassed over 10,000 yards in the NFL, and considered one of the better running backs in his time.

Nowhere in his stats does it show how he was a steady runner, who made key yardage on the ground, when his team needed it, and was dependable in those specific circumstances.

In other words, his entire career would have been scrapped if he had been judged by stats.

But, that doesn't mean I don't believe in stats. I think they're important. But they aren't the whole answer like you're trying to push.

It's a huge difference when talking about a running back or a kicker though.

Might be a good idea since Crosby played for 2 coaches now in his tenure to check the number of times GB has opted to go for it rather than punt or place kick from inside the opponent's 40-30 between both coaches and evaluate from there. We must take into account playing indoors and outdoors as well.

Be my guest and figure those numbers out.

Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting Crosby has lacked leg strength for all of his career but he does at this point in his career.

Crosby does look like he's lost some leg strength to me. He also looks like he's pretty consistent and reliable. If all he can kick are 47 on in, but does it consistently, well if they can't find someone that can kick those as consistently and has some more leg strength, I don't care if they try to keep him.

There's no way of knowing if Crosby can consistently make field goals from more than 40 yards as he has made only three kicks from that distance all season long.

There are 31 kickers in the league who have made more field goals from that distance this season.

Thanks, that makes me feel so much better that we made him the highest paid CB in the NFL.

It should make you feel better that Alexander is actually the 11th best cornerback (eighth in coverage by the way) compared to 73rd as you suggested.

Seems like when you criticize a player, some will jump all over that as you calling said player a bum. I've noticed that with Rodgers, Bahk and a few other players.

Just like you do when I'm criticizing Crosby.

Yeah, they don't think Mason can kick a FG longer than 30 yards.

Sounds like they want to use Ahmed’s stronger (than Crosby) leg on kickoffs as a way to help combat explosive Vikings returner Kene Nwangwu, who ranks No. 2 in NFL with a 26.0-yard average. Crosby has also been dealing with a back problem for most of the season, so that might be part of it too.

Wow, now the Packers need to have two kickers active on game day because Crosby can't kick it into the end zone anymore and fans are actually fine with it

Come on Cap… that’s about the weakest argument ive ever seen you make. You have drawn a conclusion on a statistic that happens to support the point you are desperately trying to make.

Most statistics about Crosby support the notion that he has been a below average kicker for most of his career. The one used in this discussion is just one of many.

Other possible reasons that on their face are just as likely have been suggested. Your response is that the burden of Proof is on Poker when it was you that made the original claim.

Once again, I supported my point of view with facts while Poker is solely speculating on reasons without having any evidence to back it up. In my opinion it's his task to do that though, otherwise I don't put any stock into it.

As a side note, I have taken a look at all of the fourth down plays on which the Packers have gone for it on fourth down between the opponent's 22 and 40 yard line this season. Not one of them happened at the end of a half and only one of them was a run with one yard to go. That doesn't support Poker's view either.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It should make you feel better that Alexander is actually the 11th best cornerback (eighth in coverage by the way) compared to 73rd as you suggested.

Again Captain, you have your opinion, I have mine. There is more to football than PFF stats. In my opinion, it doesn't take much for an average football fan to watch Alexander this season and see that he is not playing as well as he did in previous seasons. There is more to his job than just defending a receiver and he doesn't do much of anything other than that. So you feel free to keep calling him a top CB, because I don't think at this point the Packers are getting what they paid for.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm certainly glad you're not coaching the Packers. We'd be cutting people for "statistical reasons," not the reality of how well they play the game.

Captain:

I'm definitely glad I'm not coaching the Packers as well as I don't have anywhere the knowledge for doing the job. No idea where you got the idea from that I suggested to be qualified for it.

But just to clarify you would be terrible at it as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------​

Ouch!

How do you know how good of a coach I was? I think you may have stepped outside your comfort zone on that one. I do understand why though. I did press you, and you reacted. My apologies for doing it. I got carried away too.

As for my coaching skills, whether or not you believe it, I was pretty darned good at it. It included coaching kickers, holders, and long snappers.

As for experience kicking, I was also the kicker for my high school team, and did it for 3 years in college.

I based my statements on personal experience, and knowledge of the way it works, not on a stat that is superficial at best.

 

[OldSchool101]

Crosby does look like he's lost some leg strength to me. He also looks like he's pretty consistent and reliable. If all he can kick are 47 on in, but does it consistently, well if they can't find someone that can kick those as consistently and has some more leg strength, I don't care if they try to keep him. It's not really better to replace him with someone that can boot a 55 yarder sometimes, but misses more overall. it's not as easy to replace kickers as people think.

That’s about right I think. 47 in colder air. Maybe an extra 5 in a dome etc. That said, I’m probably not going to punt on a 49 yarder either. His moderate range all weather considered is about 50, for a game winner 55 max as he seems to get better under pressure.

 

[Voyageur]

I understand the reasoning for bringing the guy on to do kick offs. That's a kick where you put everything you've got into the kick, and if you have any injuries, it can make them worse. I doubt very much that it's an indictment against Crosby. I don't think that happens when you realize he kicked the game winner a week ago.

 

[longtimefan]

Again Captain, you have your opinion, I have mine. There is more to football than PFF stats. In my opinion, it doesn't take much for an average football fan to watch Alexander this season and see that he is not playing as well as he did in previous seasons. There is more to his job than just defending a receiver and he doesn't do much of anything other than that. So you feel free to keep calling him a top CB, because I don't think at this point the Packers are getting what they paid for.

He has had a down year

 

[PackAttack12]

And don't act like you won't read this LOL

...called that to perfection LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

He has had a down year

Alexander or Captain?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I understand the reasoning for bringing the guy on to do kick offs. That's a kick where you put everything you've got into the kick, and if you have any injuries, it can make them worse. I doubt very much that it's an indictment against Crosby. I don't think that happens when you realize he kicked the game winner a week ago.

From what I have read, it is more that they are worried about the Vikings kick returner Kene Nwangwu. He is second in the NFL in yds/return of those qualifying. Might also be a statement about Crosby's back, but who knows for sure.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Wow, now the Packers need to have two kickers active on game day because Crosby can't kick it into the end zone anymore and fans are actually fine with it

Yeah, they should cut Crosby and let Ahmed kick FG's too. Or bring in your guy Dominik Eberle, he has pretty much been a free agent since you and I had that bet.