Packers vs Saints Preseason Game 2: Game Thread

[Heyjoe4]

Against KC Ahmed was kicking off 6-7 yds deep into the end zone (line drives) & KC ran it out. He either needs another 3 yds OR work on hang time. I believe Crosby usually hangs it high but ball only gets between end zone & 5 yd line forcing run backs. Crosby's touchback rate has been between 45-62% over last 4 years - higher than I would've expected prior to looking it up.

Thanks for the background. My completely subjective on KO returns is that they usually end up short of the 25. But with the problems on GB's STs, I'd much rather see a touchback. It does seem like Crosby's kickoffs were getting shorter, not a surprise given his age. Eventually they'll need to replace him. I like the idea of a K on the PS - one with some experience in GB. So I hope Ahmed clears waivers. It's a risk but they have to take it.

 

[sschind]

The Packers won't release Love next offseason as his salary is fully guaranteed.

I do agree that they won't release him next off season but if they would and someone else signs him do they get relief from that salary.

 

[OldSchool101]

Please show me a single post in which I mentioned a rookie can't help a team. I spare you a lot of time, you won't be able to find one.

I agree the Packers shouldn't rely on a rookie receiver having a significant impact. Therefore it would be smart to add another veteran pass catcher to the roster.

Thank You for not wanting to waste my time!
But really it didn’t take hardly any time at all.


Hey I do recall you defending Watson and the Offense as a whole as not regressing substantially, which is commendable.

I actually don’t blame you for being speculative on Rookies in general and we really should temper expectations to a degree. However we should remember that this isn’t a typical season with a bonafide WR1, WR2, etc..a more typical slow grooming season. We can also boast some about our QB, as he’s still in peak form.

 

[longtimefan]

Against KC Ahmed was kicking off 6-7 yds deep into the end zone (line drives) & KC ran it out. He either needs another 3 yds OR work on hang time. I believe Crosby usually hangs it high but ball only gets between end zone & 5 yd line forcing run backs. Crosby's touchback rate has been between 45-62% over last 4 years - higher than I would've expected prior to looking it up.

Think your assement of Mason ko is correct

 

[longtimefan]

I do agree that they won't release him next off season but if they would and someone else signs him do they get relief from that salary.

If he is t traded by end of train camp next year he gets 5th year.

Logic says that you dont spend 4 years on a qb to let him go unless the trade is unbelieavble

 

[Jayzee1981]

Clements is here because of him. He was dragged out of retirement to help this kid. He ain’t going anywhere.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I do agree that they won't release him next off season but if they would and someone else signs him do they get relief from that salary.

Thank You for not wanting to waste my time!
But really it didn’t take hardly any time at all.


Hey I do recall you defending Watson and the Offense as a whole as not regressing substantially, which is commendable.

I actually don’t blame you for being speculative on Rookies in general and we really should temper expectations to a degree. However we should remember that this isn’t a typical season with a bonafide WR1, WR2, etc..a more typical slow grooming season. We can also boast some about our QB, as he’s still in peak form.

Even though it's not a large sample size, the fact that the Packers were 7-0 without Adams shows that others can pick up the slack. Granted MVS is gone too, but as you note, Rodgers is still here. By my admittedly biased estimation, he's still the best QB in the NFL. He makes ups for a lot. I'm not too worried about the WR group.

I'm not worried about the offense as a whole. A lot depends on when Bakhtiari and Jenkins return. And I guess in Bakhtiari's case it's if he returns. But the Packers have a history of good to great OL play and coaches. Again, I'm not worried.

 

[OldSchool101]

Even though it's not a large sample size, the fact that the Packers were 7-0 without Adams shows that others can pick up the slack. Granted MVS is gone too, but as you note, Rodgers is still here. By my admittedly biased estimation, he's still the best QB in the NFL. He makes ups for a lot. I'm not too worried about the WR group.

I'm not worried about the offense as a whole. A lot depends on when Bakhtiari and Jenkins return. And I guess in Bakhtiari's case it's if he returns. But the Packers have a history of good to great OL play and coaches. Again, I'm not worried.

I agree and I think for myself I see a RB group that can be leaned on some more, both in the run and passing game. AJ Dillon is entering his 3rd season and he already displayed a good understanding of the playbook. In the BCU Offense, it was Dillon’s 3rd year that he really took major flight, posting 1,880 All-purpose yards; 15TD; 5.3 per carry;
15.0 per receiving on 21 catches.
That’s a ton of production for a known, Run-Centric Offense.

On the other side, we’ve got Aaron Jones, who in his Sr. season at UTEP eclipsed 2,000 All-Purpose w/20TD. Comes to GB and similarly between his Sophomore-Junior NFL seasons went from his
(2018) 834 AP-9TD
to
(2019) 1,558-19TD!
Literally 200% doubling type production.

We have an Ace high (QB) and picked up a pair of Kings (RB’s) on the Turn Card. In 2022, If the River card comes down (OL health) and it’s an Ace or King? or pair our lonely 10 of Diamonds (get WR production) we’ve got several ways to go about Winning.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree and I think for myself I see a RB group that can be leaned on some more, both in the run and passing game. AJ Dillon is entering his 3rd season and he already displayed a good understanding of the playbook. In the BCU Offense, it was Dillon’s 3rd year that he really took major flight, posting 1,880 All-purpose yards; 15TD; 5.3 per carry;
15.0 per receiving on 21 catches.
That’s a ton of production for a known, Run-Centric Offense.

On the other side, we’ve got Aaron Jones, who in his Sr. season at UTEP eclipsed 2,000 All-Purpose w/20TD. Comes to GB and similarly between his Sophomore-Junior NFL seasons went from his (2018) 834 AP-9TD to
(2019) 1,558-19TD!

Last year was a relative conundrum at OL. If we get healthier this year watch out. We’ve got a pair of Kings Ace high.

Good point about Jones and Dillon. They are great all-purpose backs who already have contributed as receivers. I expect more of that this year, and it's another reason I'm not concerned about the passing game. The sooner they get Tonyan back, the better. Maybe Cannella will make a difference.

And the OL....... Well with Bakhtiari and Jenkins at full strength, it's an elite group. I expect Jenkins will be back soon. Maybe not opening day, but within 2-3 weeks of that. As for Bakhtiari, who knows? In his case tomorrow never comes. So I hope the knee swelling is behind him and he can get back to full strength. But even at 50%, he's better than most tackles. Well, if he can even play at 50%. Just gotta wait and see.

 

[OldSchool101]

Good point about Jones and Dillon. They are great all-purpose backs who already have contributed as receivers. I expect more of that this year, and it's another reason I'm not concerned about the passing game. The sooner they get Tonyan back, the better. Maybe Cannella will make a difference.

And the OL....... Well with Bakhtiari and Jenkins at full strength, it's an elite group. I expect Jenkins will be back soon. Maybe not opening day, but within 2-3 weeks of that. As for Bakhtiari, who knows? In his case tomorrow never comes. So I hope the knee swelling is behind him and he can get back to full strength. But even at 50%, he's better than most tackles. Well, if he can even play at 50%. Just gotta wait and see.

Yes. And What we all tend to forget about is how games are won in the trenches. Last season, only 2 returning OL played in at least 10 games. That unheard of and it’s about 1 injury short of the term “positional decimation”.

I recall a recent interview with #12 about RBs Jones, Dillon. He said him and Matt were structuring things to get them more involved. To the tune of each getting 50 receptions. I had to replay that part because I thought I misheard Aaron He reiterated how they are calculating ways to get the best 11 on the field. MLF claims those 2 RB are 1A and 1A. That means they are both a major part of filling the massive void left at WR (Davante/MVS).

Keep in mind, at Boston Coll Dillon finished his Sr year at 15.0 per catch on 21 receptions. That’s just unheard of for a 245lb RB. Get him in space with a pulling blocker and he’s a demolition man, similar to Henry

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes. And What we all tend to forget about is how games are won in the trenches. Last season, only 2 returning OL played in at least 10 games. That unheard of and it’s about 1 injury short of the term “positional decimation”.

I recall a recent interview with #12 about RBs Jones, Dillon. He said him and Matt were structuring things to get them more involved. To the tune of each getting 50 receptions. I had to replay that part because I thought I misheard Aaron He reiterated how they are calculating ways to get the best 11 on the field. MLF claims those 2 RB are 1A and 1A. That means they are both a major part of filling the massive void left at WR (Davante/MVS).

Keep in mind, at Boston Coll Dillon finished his Sr year at 15.0 per catch on 21 receptions. That’s just unheard of for a 245lb RB. Get him in space with a pulling blocker and he’s a demolition man, similar to Henry

And looking to the future, Dillon is coming up on a big payday. I don't think the Packers will keep two RBs at $12 mil/year each. So Gluten has kept the RB pipeline full. He drafted Dillon anticipating the possible departure of Jones. Now he's got an UDFA in Goodson who sure looks like he'll be the third RB this year, and likely the number 2 RB (or 1A as you put it).

That's good management by Gluten. He isn't always right with his decisions, who is? But he does a great job of preparing for the season ahead, and the 2 or 3 seasons after. He's right a whole lot more than he's wrong. So something else we GB fans should be grateful for is three straight GMs performing at a high level.

 

[OldSchool101]

And looking to the future, Dillon is coming up on a big payday. I don't think the Packers will keep two RBs at $12 mil/year each. So Gluten has kept the RB pipeline full. He drafted Dillon anticipating the possible departure of Jones. Now he's got an UDFA in Goodson who sure looks like he'll be the third RB this year, and likely the number 2 RB (or 1A as you put it).

Yes. I still think Khylin Hill could be a legit RB2/1B type. Obviously he’ll have to fully recover for that but he’s out there running around already.

I believe Hill was on target to rush for 1,500+/15TD+in his Senior year and a candidate for SEC 1St-team status. He opted out his 2020 Sr. Season so we’ll never know.
Hill reminds me of a slightly bigger (1” taller/10lb heavier) Jonathan Franklin. Both came out of the Rookie gate looking impressive. Obviously both succumbed to early injuries, but it’s looking like Khylin will make a full recovery. Couldn’t stand that Franklin ended his playing career so soon. I believe JF was going to be special and possibly our starting RB at some point. I had him a tick or two ahead of Khylin

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes. I still think Khylin Hill could be a legit RB2/1B type. Obviously he’ll have to fully recover for that but he’s out there running around already.

I believe Hill was on target to rush for 1,500+/15TD+in his Senior year and a candidate for SEC 1St-team status. He opted out his 2020 Sr. Season so we’ll never know.
Hill reminds me of a slightly bigger (1” taller/10lb heavier) Jonathan Franklin. Both came out of the Rookie gate looking impressive. Obviously both succumbed to early injuries, but it’s looking like Khylin will make a full recovery. Couldn’t stand that Franklin ended his playing career so soon. I believe JF was going to be special and possibly our starting RB at some point. I had him a tick or two ahead of Khylin

Well they won't keep both Hill and Goodson on the 53. I think Goodson gets the nod. He's playing well and probably has earned the roster spot. Credit to Ty for noticing this guy. I started to watch him and while it's PS, he looks like he has all the right stuff.

They'll probably waive Hill and stash him on the PS.

 

[OldSchool101]

Well they won't keep both Hill and Goodson on the 53. I think Goodson gets the nod. He's playing well and probably has earned the roster spot. Credit to Ty for noticing this guy. I started to watch him and while it's PS, he looks like he has all the right stuff.

They'll probably waive Hill and stash him on the PS.

I just assumed Hill would have an injury designation and be brought back when he’s eligible. But I haven’t followed him that closely so I could be wrong.
It’s tough because Taylor has been with our team since just after the 2020 draft. He’s got a definitive upper hand in that playbook because of it. I don’t know where the Packers have him in pecking order. I do know that T. Goodson edged him in PS, but that’s not enough to send a guy walking imo after 2 years in your system. I like Goodson though, I think he bumped Dexter off the PS.
I believe Goodson just needs to work on some nuances of blocking and he could have a future with us as a depth piece (RB3 type) by next season.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I just assumed Hill would have an injury designation and be brought back when he’s eligible. But I haven’t followed him that closely so I could be wrong.
It’s tough because Taylor has been with our team since just after the 2020 draft. He’s got a definitive upper hand in that playbook because of it. I don’t know where the Packers have him in pecking order. I do know that T. Goodson edged him in PS, but that’s not enough to send a guy walking imo after 2 years in your system. I like Goodson though, I think he bumped Dexter off the PS.
I believe Goodson just needs to work on some nuances of blocking and he could have a future with us as a depth piece (RB3 type) by next season.

I think Goodson will be the third RB this year. Taylor is probably gone. Who is "Dexter"? Knowing the playbook is nice. Producing is better.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think Goodson will be the third RB this year. Taylor is probably gone. Who is "Dexter"? Knowing the playbook is nice. Producing is better.

RB Dexter Williams was a Day 3 (6th rounder?) we drafted several years ago. He didn’t make the cut last season but we picked him up late in the day, after we got thin at RB again this year

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think they'll keep two kickers on the 53. They'll have to roll the dice with Ahmed and waive him. Hopefully he clears.

The Packers could keep Ahmed on the 53 while Crosby stays on the PUP list for the first four weeks of the season as well.

Crosby's touchback rate has been between 45-62% over last 4 years - higher than I would've expected prior to looking it up.

Last season, the Packers ranked 26th in touchback percentage. With the team having issues covering kickoffs I would like that number to improve this year.

I do agree that they won't release him next off season but if they would and someone else signs him do they get relief from that salary.

The remaining portion of the prorated signing bonus ($1.64 million) would count against the Packers cap in 2023 no matter what. If another team would pick up Love from waivers his base salary of $2.3 million wouldn't count against Green Bay's cap anymore. If he cleared waivers that would result in that money counting against the team's cap though.

Thank You for not wanting to waste my time!
But really it didn’t take hardly any time at all.

Geez, it should be pretty easy to understand there's a huge difference between advocating for a team to not rely on a rookie to have a significant impact and suggesting there's no way a rookie can contribute immediately

Good point about Jones and Dillon. They are great all-purpose backs who already have contributed as receivers. I expect more of that this year, and it's another reason I'm not concerned about the passing game.

As I have mentioned in the past, Rodgers has targeted running backs on 55% of his throws in the seven games Adams missed over the past three years. It's realistic to expect Jones and Dillon to be heavily involved in the passing game.

Maybe Cannella will make a difference.

I highly doubt Cannella will end up making the roster.

They'll probably waive Hill and stash him on the PS.

I'm convinced Hill will stay on the PUP list for the start of the season.

 

[gopkrs]

I highly doubt Cannella will end up making the roster.

Cannella has looked natural when catching the ball and running afterwards. Something Davis has so far lacked. So I would rather have Cannella. Maybe more than Mercedes although he might be needed to shore up the pass blocking.

 

[sschind]

Last season, the Packers ranked 26th in touchback percentage. With the team having issues covering kickoffs I would like that number to improve this year.



The remaining portion of the prorated signing bonus ($1.64 million) would count against the Packers cap in 2023 no matter what. If another team would pick up Love from waivers his base salary of $2.3 million wouldn't count against Green Bay's cap anymore. If he cleared waivers that would result in that money counting against the team's cap though.

#1 Not specifically direct at you Cap but do coaches instruct kickers to just kick it as far as they can every time or do they occasionally ask them to kick short? Having not ever been a kicker I would think it would be difficult to adjust how much power you put behind each kick without sacrificing some control. I understand that you do have control over how much power you put behind a kick and it would be akin to pulling a punch but if asked to back off just how much do you back off. Will it be too much or not enough or what. I'm sure if that's your job its easier to master but it just seems that it might be difficult to gauge how much. Anyway the reason I asked is because if the kicker is instructed to kick short (although with our STs I have no idea why you would do that) that would have an effect on the TB %. It might not be all on Crosby's weak leg.

#2 I thought they got relief from the salary portion if the player was signed by another team. that's why you see some high prices players go to teams on low, or league minimum deals because they are already collecting a salary from their previous team. In Loves case though I can't imagine a scenario where his new salary wouldn't be more than what the Packers were paying him. Its not really a lot of money.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Cannella has looked natural when catching the ball and running afterwards. Something Davis has so far lacked. So I would rather have Cannella. Maybe more than Mercedes although he might be needed to shore up the pass blocking.

We'll see about Cannella. Agree with your assessment and think he's a better TE than Davis. We'll know soon enough

 

[Poppa San]

We'll see about Cannella. Agree with your assessment and think he's a better TE than Davis. We'll know soon enough

One of the first players cut

 

[Heyjoe4]

One of the first players cut

Was he cut already? So much for that theory! Thanks for the update.

 

[OldSchool101]

I hate handicap matches.

Who did it to you Schultz?!
I want to know because this just isn’t right. I will not tolerate people treating you like that! You’re practically my friend! Well.. sorta

 

[Deleted member 6794]

#1 Not specifically direct at you Cap but do coaches instruct kickers to just kick it as far as they can every time or do they occasionally ask them to kick short? Having not ever been a kicker I would think it would be difficult to adjust how much power you put behind each kick without sacrificing some control. I understand that you do have control over how much power you put behind a kick and it would be akin to pulling a punch but if asked to back off just how much do you back off. Will it be too much or not enough or what. I'm sure if that's your job its easier to master but it just seems that it might be difficult to gauge how much. Anyway the reason I asked is because if the kicker is instructed to kick short (although with our STs I have no idea why you would do that) that would have an effect on the TB %. It might not be all on Crosby's weak leg.

I'm convinced coaches tell kickers to kick off short a lot of times, especially against teams like the Packers which struggle returning them. With that being said, I don't think the Packers were one of the teams to approach it like that last season as they were terrible covering kickoffs as well. Therefore I believe Crosby has lost some leg strengths resulting in shorter kickoffs.

#2 I thought they got relief from the salary portion if the player was signed by another team. that's why you see some high prices players go to teams on low, or league minimum deals because they are already collecting a salary from their previous team. In Loves case though I can't imagine a scenario where his new salary wouldn't be more than what the Packers were paying him. Its not really a lot of money.

I don't think the Packers would be able to get a relief for Love's guaranteed base salary for the 2023 season. Actually, it's a moot point as I'm convinced he would be claimed off waivers if the team decides to release him (which won't happen in the first place either).

 

[melvin dangerr]

Where was this ground pound last week, I know I need to get over it