Packers vs Saints Preseason Game 2: Game Thread

[Zartan]

Love anticipated problems, solved problems and supported his staff, he was manager last night.

 

[longtimefan]

Oh you definitely question the numbers imo, numbers tell a significant part of the story. Numbers don't tell each variable and who is responsible for a drop or a catch for that matter. Even the TD pass was not perfect, I have that 55% on Doubs being aware and athletic. One play was the one that basically could've hit romeo in the head on that long, sideline, I have that as 60% Romeos fault for not catching it, its a tough one, but this league demands a 55% catch ratio on tough passes. I'm being critical as these are very young guys

As one example, do you know what I thought was the best play of the night? Besides Rodgers talking about Etling and his athleticism as he scored, which was a highlight reel type interview. lol I thought the scramble play where Jordan put that ball outside the endzone but still within 6" of catchable. I was 75% sure he was going to force an INT! That throw was incredible while on the run. The only person that has a chance at that ball was his person. That reminded me of a young Ben Rothlesburger, there are about 10 QB, or so, who can make that throw in the NFL.
3-4 QB of those 10 would've been 3-6" better (Aaron and Mahommes are 2 of 4) 3-4 QB more are high performing starting QB's and the remaining 2-3 are the best backup-QB in the league. That kid as one hell of an arm, maybe not Brett Favre 84 yard combine stuff. Jordan can throw it MArino 72 yards though.
Jordan has some minor accuracy issues on fade checkdowns and such, but very fixable type stuff with more playing time

I loved that pass on outside of end zone

but there was a play action where he fooled the lb and completed the pass

 

[XPack]

There's a lot of positive reinforcement in here about Love. He was alright. I still see nothing in him worth that first round pick ... yet.

Perhaps it's the confidence/comfort in the plays or lack of time with receivers, but it just isn't fully natural. He tries.

 

[longtimefan]

There's a lot of positive reinforcement in here about Love. He was alright. I still see nothing in him worth that first round pick ... yet.

Perhaps it's the confidence/comfort in the plays or lack of time with receivers, but it just isn't fully natural. He tries.

He wasn't picked as a true #1..when will people get it

just like Gary. He was picked as a project to mold and shape how they wanted

 

[longtimefan]

I find it soooooo ironic, funny , odd how some say he is getting better and others say he still sucks

 

[MadScientist]

I find it soooooo ironic, funny , odd how some say he is getting better and others say he still sucks

Well he has clearly improved, but his accuracy is still suspect, so he doesn't look like he's ready to be an NFL starting quarterback yet, unlike Rodgers, Hasselbeck and Brunell did at this point in their careers.

The different views are not incompatible, just different perspectives.

 

[longtimefan]

Well he has clearly improved, but his accuracy is still suspect, so he doesn't look like he's ready to be an NFL starting quarterback yet, unlike Rodgers, Hasselbeck and Brunell did at this point in their careers.

The different views are not incompatible, just different perspectives.

ck rodgers preseason stats after 2 years

4 td 3 int.. About 56 % comp..15 sacks

Loading…

www.footballdb.com

No stats for marks or matts 1st two preasons. Care to supply a link?

 

[PikeBadger]

ck rodgers preseason stats after 2 years

4 td 3 int.. About 56 % comp..15 sacks

Loading…

www.footballdb.com

No stats for marks or matts 1st two preasons. Care to supply a link?

No stats from me but I remember Brunell being very impressive right from the start. He looked like very legitimate competition for Favre at that time who at that point still had not learned how to handle blitzes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

unlike Rodgers, Hasselbeck and Brunell did at this point in their careers.

Mark Brunell? Not really a fair comparison at all. Brunell was with the Packers for 1 season and by the end of his 2nd NFL season, he had played in 15 regular season games, 10 of which he started.

What did Hasselbeck and Rodgers do in their first 2 years that was different from Love?

First people want to use hindsight to evaluate Love and now want to use foresight in comparing him to other Packer QB's? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

ck rodgers preseason stats after 2 years

4 td 3 int.. About 56 % comp..15 sacks

Loading…

www.footballdb.com

No stats for marks or matts 1st two preasons. Care to supply a link?

You are confusing reality and facts with feelings! Stop it!

 

[XPack]

ck rodgers preseason stats after 2 years

4 td 3 int.. About 56 % comp..15 sacks

Loading…

www.footballdb.com

No stats for marks or matts 1st two preasons. Care to supply a link?

That's the problem drilling everything down to numbers.

Rodgers was predicted to be #1 pick of entire draft. Love wasn't anywhere close to that.

Plus Love always had a problem with accuracy even in college. One season aside, his TD:Int ratio was nearly 1:1.

Rodgers potential was so much higher so he had much more leeway. Not many (incl me) see JLs potential as comparable to AR at all, so these stats have less meaning in a comparative sense.

 

[longtimefan]

That's the problem drilling everything down to numbers.

Rodgers was predicted to be #1 pick of entire draft. Love wasn't anywhere close to that.

Plus Love always had a problem with accuracy even in college. One season aside, his TD:Int ratio was nearly 1:1.

Rodgers potential was so much higher so he had much more leeway. Not many (incl me) see JLs potential as comparable to AR at all, so these stats have less meaning in a comparative sense.

The poster made claims on rodgers and 2 other back ups. I questioned it because it made no sense

Had nothing Whats so ever to do with Love. So not sure what your post is about

 

[MadScientist]

Mark Brunell? Not really a fair comparison at all. Brunell was with the Packers for 1 season and by the end of his 2nd NFL season, he had played in 15 regular season games, 10 of which he started.

What did Hasselbeck and Rodgers do in their first 2 years that was different from Love?

First people want to use hindsight to evaluate Love and now want to use foresight in comparing him to other Packer QB's? Just doesn't make sense.

Actually it's a fair comparison in the Brunell looked good enough in one preseason and limited game time to draw a 3rd round pick the next year. Hasselbeck got the nickname Mr. August for a reason. Rodgers didn't solidify his status until the Dallas game his third year, so not as good

The poster made claims on rodgers and 2 other back ups. I questioned it because it made no sense

Had nothing Whats so ever to do with Love. So not sure what your post is about

The original post was about Love and comparing to how some other Packers QBs looked early in their careers. My point wasn't about what Love will become, only that it's possible to say that he has improved, and that he doesn't look like one might expect a solid NFL QB to look like.

 

[OldSchool101]

The original post was about Love and comparing to how some other Packers QBs looked early in their careers.

That’s fair. However not every QB (or any positional player for that matter) is drafted with the same learning curve. My point wasn't about what Love will become, only that it's possible to say that he has improved, and that he doesn't look like one might expect a solid NFL QB to look like.
I’m not sure what you are looking at? Is it the 3 INT in game 1? If you go back and watch his last contest he made 4-5 throws past 15 yards (I call them dimes) that only a good backup or low level starter would make. He had 2 passes over 25+ yards that hit Receivers in both hands, but were dropped. I realize those Receivers were playing in the Rain (it’s why we saw that Saints fumble off the snap). But those are 2 catches that a seasoned Starter makes 70% of the time. Jordan (Or Rodgers for that matter) can’t make players secure a catch.

Also Jordan was efficient at a few trick plays and he had good vision to get out of trouble and not take any substantial losses. Notice he didn’t force the ball when points were involved. He also used his feet to extend plays when nobody was open.

I just see a relatively young player who’s noticeably improving and that’s what everyone else is seeing on his team and in general.

Lastly, his critics (oddly mostly Packer fans) are saying he should’ve been a Day 3 type. Nobody wanted him type arguments.

If that’s the case. Then How is Jordan doing in relation to a top 150 draft pick expectation.?
Compared to other Day 3 Sophomore QB’s etc?

 

[Heyjoe4]

That’s fair. However not every QB (or any positional player for that matter) is drafted with the same learning curve. My point wasn't about what Love will become, only that it's possible to say that he has improved, and that he doesn't look like one might expect a solid NFL QB to look like.
I’m not sure what you are looking at? Is it the 3 INT in game 1? If you go back and watch his last contest he made 4-5 throws past 15 yards (I call them dimes) that only a good backup or low level starter would make. He had 2 passes over 25+ yards that hit Receivers in both hands, but were dropped. I realize those Receivers were playing in the Rain (it’s why we saw that Saints fumble off the snap). But those are 2 catches that a seasoned Starter makes 70% of the time. Jordan (Or Rodgers for that matter) can’t make players secure a catch.

Also Jordan was efficient at a few trick plays and he had good vision to get out of trouble and not take any substantial losses. Notice he didn’t force the ball when points were involved. He also used his feet to extend plays when nobody was open.

I just see a relatively young player who’s noticeably improving and that’s what everyone else is seeing on his team and in general.

Lastly, his critics (oddly mostly Packer fans) are saying he should’ve been a Day 3 type. Nobody wanted him type arguments.

If that’s the case. Then How is Jordan doing in relation to a top 150 draft pick expectation.?
Compared to other Day 3 Sophomore QB’s etc?

What I've noticed is that he's playing with more maturity. I posted somewhere else about the red zone incompletion to DeGuarra against the Saints. It looked like he threw it too wide but I'm sure he did that on purpose to avoid an INT and maybe a pic 6. Last year he throws that INT.

As for his accuracy, it's maddening. As you say he can drop a dime and then be wildly off target. Those are things where I haven't seen significant improvement, or at least not as much as I would expect from a round 1 pick. He has another PS game and next PS to prove he can be a starter. (I hope we don't see him during the regular season other than in mop up.) IMO he hasn't shown he has starter skills, but he also still has time. Favre and Rodgers started slow too. Most do. So no talk of bust or blown pick until he gets his chances.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As for his accuracy, it's maddening. As you say he can drop a dime and then be wildly off target. Those are things where I haven't seen significant improvement, or at least not as much as I would expect from a round 1 pick.

Personally, I think people expect way to much from a young QB. Especially Packer fans that have had the privilege of watching Favre and Rodgers behind center for so many years. Even the ones picked in the top 10 are mysteries and often don't look all that great until they have had a lot of time playing real live football, with their first team offense. I'm not saying that given the chance to play multiple regular season games, Love with be fantastic, but I do think he would get better with each game.

Packer fans might be reminded of the importance of a QB working with their receivers when the regular season starts. Lazard and Cobb are the only 2 WR's that Rodgers has played a lot of full speed games with, so I don't expect him and some of the other WR's to be in sync all the time. I guess one could throw Amari into that mix, but I don't see him getting a ton of playing time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Personally, I think people expect way to much from a young QB. Especially Packer fans that have had the privilege of watching Favre and Rodgers behind center for so many years. Even the ones picked in the top 10 are mysteries and often don't look all that great until they have had a lot of time playing real live football, with their first team offense. I'm not saying that given the chance to play multiple regular season games, Love with be fantastic, but I do think he would get better with each game.

Packer fans might be reminded of the importance of a QB working with their receivers when the regular season starts. Lazard and Cobb are the only 2 WR's that Rodgers has played full speed games with, so I don't expect him and some of the other WR's to be in sync all the time. I guess one could throw Amari into that mix, but I don't see him getting a ton of playing time.

All true. And you only posted part of my comment. I did say that I thought Love was showing more maturity and being more careful with the ball. That's an important part of the game - just look at Rodgers' ridiculously low INT ratio.

I've been watching the Packers play since the 60s, so I've seen the best and the worst. I have no idea where Love will end up, but he certainly deserves the chance to prove he belongs. He has this pre-season and next pre-season, and I'm sure we'll see more improvement. Enough to take over when Rodgers walks? Who knows but let's wait and see.

 

[MadScientist]

I’m not sure what you are looking at? Is it the 3 INT in game 1? If you go back and watch his last contest he made 4-5 throws past 15 yards (I call them dimes) that only a good backup or low level starter would make. He had 2 passes over 25+ yards that hit Receivers in both hands, but were dropped. I realize those Receivers were playing in the Rain (it’s why we saw that Saints fumble off the snap). But those are 2 catches that a seasoned Starter makes 70% of the time. Jordan (Or Rodgers for that matter) can’t make players secure a catch.

Two things. 1) It's not that Love can't make good throws, clearly he can. It's about consistency, and making accurate throws on the the basic ones. I was listening on the radio and on the first or second drive Love missed a throw and McCarren was going on about how it's a throw an NFL QB just has to make. 2) Looking like a backup / low level starter isn't the same as looking like a solid NFL QB. How much weight you give his trajectory vs how much weight you give his current level and his weaknesses will determine your current opinion of him.

 

[OldSchool101]

Two things. 1) It's not that Love can't make good throws, clearly he can. It's about consistency, and making accurate throws on the the basic ones. I was listening on the radio and on the first or second drive Love missed a throw and McCarren was going on about how it's a throw an NFL QB just has to make. 2) Looking like a backup / low level starter isn't the same as looking like a solid NFL QB. How much weight you give his trajectory vs how much weight you give his current level and his weaknesses will determine your current opinion of him.

We can’t write QB’s off after 4 halves of preseason games and 1 start. It’s just not nearly enough time to fully evaluate a young QB. Is it ok to say how good or bad he looks in a preseason game? Sure that’s fair.

Past that it’s just really playing the odds. I’m going to guess that 80% of QB’s drafted outside the top 20 don’t ever become long lasting, top end starters. Sure there’s a Tom Brady story here and there, but for every one you find I’ll give you 4 More that didn’t excel. So it’s kinda unattractive when I hear people (not necessarily you) act like they are QB prophets playing 80% odds. It’s almost worse than a nightmare starring my X wife complaining in it.

 

[MadScientist]

We can’t write QB’s off after 4 halves of preseason games and 1 start. It’s just not nearly enough time to fully evaluate a young QB. Is it ok to say how good or bad he looks in a preseason game? Sure that’s fair.

Past that it’s just really playing the odds. I’m going to guess that 80% of QB’s drafted outside the top 20 don’t ever become long lasting, top end starters. Sure there’s a Tom Brady story here and there, but for every one you find I’ll give you 4 More that didn’t excel. So it’s kinda unattractive when I hear people (not necessarily you) act like they are QB prophets playing 80% odds. It’s almost worse than a nightmare starring my X wife complaining in it.

It's not a matter of writing him off, just assessing what he is showing now vs projecting where he is going.

Draft position is completely irrelevant. This isn't a high school test being graded on a curve. The only thing that counts is can he play, and can he win for the Packers.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It's not a matter of writing him off, just assessing what he is showing now vs projecting where he is going.

Draft position is completely irrelevant. This isn't a high school test being graded on a curve. The only thing that counts is can he play, and can he win for the Packers.

"The only thing that counts is can he play, and can he win for the Packers."

After all the back and forth talk about Love, it comes down to this quote. All the other stats and comparisons to players past are irrelevant. The thing is, none of us will make the decision. It's really up to MLF. Gluten made the pick. MLF has to make it work, or not.

And we're very likely not going to know until the end of the 2023 PS, assuming Rodgers keeps playing. If Rodgers retires after this year, well unless something miraculous happens, Love is the guy.

 

[gopkrs]

Looking forward to watching him tonight. And he will probably be going against the 1st string D in the first quarter.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well if the 49'ers release Garoppolo, which it appears that they will, if they can't work a trade.....I'm sure some here would prefer the Packers cut Love and sign Jimmy G.

 

[Mondio]

Then those people are stupid x2. First because Garoppolo is nothing more than Love is right now and won't be. and 2nd because Love's contract was all guaranteed, so there is no point in cutting him for nothing until his contract is up and he leaves or is re-signed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Then those people are stupid x2. First because Garoppolo is nothing more than Love is right now and won't be. and 2nd because Love's contract was all guaranteed, so there is no point in cutting him for nothing until his contract is up and he leaves or is re-signed.

I think Garropolo is a better QB than Love, and that's based mostly on regular season and playoff game experience. I also think Garropolo is starting-QB material in the NFL, but in the last tier as far as ability, whatever that is. He's not gonna take a team to the SB.

But it wouldn't work in GB because Garropolo, even after taking a huge pay cut, is gonna be too expensive for a backup. It just won't work. Maybe some day, but not until Garropolo can be proven to be no more than a backup.

Love is the guy for now, and by that I mean the guy who will replace Rodgers. We don't know when Rodgers will call it a day, hell Rodgers probably doesn't know. So unless Gluten has another guy he's considering, Love is it.

It was interesting - MLF was being interviewed after the Saints game and he was asked what he thought of Etling. I was kinda stunned when MLF said Etling's play was making their decision tougher. I assume that means the decision on who will be the backup. I think that's just MLF using the press to play mind games with Love.