Duds and studs, official lions

[Sunshinepacker]

Until Kenny gets paid on that second contract

And then hopefully the Packers have Nick Bosa on a rookie deal to balance him out

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Sorry, but 24 - zip says you're not going to be running a balanced attack. You're not going score on every possession; not chewing up the clock yields more possessions.

I really thought a couple of years ago that the Texans proved to everyone that this was just wrong. They ran the ball constantly and showed that the common "known facts" about football were, like many other assumed facts, wrong. This logic you use makes no sense. Not scoring in less time and more often doesn't actually make for a better offense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I really thought a couple of years ago that the Texans proved to everyone that this was just wrong.

Which year?

Oh, wait, I think I found it! 2014, where they ran the ball (551) more than they threw (485), went 9-7, and missed the playoffs.

In 8 of those games they trailed at halftime. Here are those halftime deficits and the result:

-14 L
-3 W
-13 L
-11 L
-3 L
-6 L
-3 W
-7 L

2 - 6 trailing at halftime; never trailed by more than 14 at the half; didn't overcame more than a 3 point halftime deficit

You might have thought wrong. Do you have another year I should look at?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Which year?

Oh, wait, I think I found it! 2014, where they ran the ball (551) more than they threw (485), went 9-7, and missed the playoffs.

In 8 of those games they trailed at halftime. Here are those halftime deficits and the result:

-14 L
-3 W
-13 L
-11 L
-3 L
-6 L
-3 W
-7 L

2 - 6 trailing at halftime; never trailed by more than 14 at the half; didn't overcame more than a 3 point halftime deficit

You might have thought wrong. Do you have another year I should look at?

Yeah, the W/L record of a bad team certainly disproves my point! Or my point could just be that they remained competitive in some games despite running the ball in scenarios that "common knowledge" said they couldn't. But please, keep referring to unrelated facts to disprove my point.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

If there was one really bad call yesterday by both the refs and the booth that might be termed a "game changer", it was the supposed touch of the punted ball by King, that resulted in the Lions getting the ball at the one and scoring a TD.

100% agree. I'm not convinced it hit him. The possibility exists, but the replays were too hard to tell if it was King's back, Washington's hand, or some combination of the two. To me, it looked like it was Washington's hand, but for whatever reason they called it they way they did, and the replay didn't show enough to overturn, in my opinion. For what it's worth, if they called it the other way that would have held up as well after review.

 

[Half Empty]

Didn't see it, but is there any reason he was even in the area? Sounds like a major player brain fart or terrible ST coaching.

 

[Mondio]

He was getting blocked but he needs clear out when Tramon says clear out. But it hit #45 twice. It was GB ball at the 17-18. Should have been. No Ref saw it hit King, none of them. It was ******** then and it’s ******** now. Another case of refs being trained not to trust their eyeballs and instead trust replay, which could t get it right.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yeah, the W/L record of a bad team [the Texans] certainly disproves my point!

Houston was YOUR example, Mr. Short Term memory. Or are you blowing sunshine? The "Texans" are from Houston, right? It's right there, just a few posts above:

I really thought a couple of years ago that the Texans proved to everyone that this was just wrong. They ran the ball constantly and showed that the common "known facts" about football were, like many other assumed facts, wrong. This logic you use makes no sense. Not scoring in less time and more often doesn't actually make for a better offense.

Like I said, if you have another Houston season you'd like me to invalidate, I'm willing to look at it.

As a reminder, you responded to my point that running a balanced attack down 24-zilch at halftime is, in a word, absurd.

Does somebody have Aaron Jones on their fantasy team, perhaps?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Didn't see it, but is there any reason he was even in the area? Sounds like a major player brain fart or terrible ST coaching.

One of many "little pet peeves" of mine is that, special teamers not being aware of what is happening around them. We see this happen far too often at the college and Pro level. I honestly don't know how it works, but I would guess the guy receiving the punt, in this case Tramon, is supposed to call off (loudly) his guys and when they hear that, they should scatter as far away from Tramon as possible. If that is not how it is done, I hope they have a better way, because it seems like the guys blocking are so engaged with that job, they haven't a clue where the ball is. Playing like that leaves you way too close to what happened to King on Sunday, whether it hit him or not, he should not have been there.

Who to "blame"? Williams if he was suppose to shout everyone off and didn't. King if he wasn't paying attention. Zook if he has no good system in place.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

100% agree. I'm not convinced it hit him. The possibility exists, but the replays were too hard to tell if it was King's back, Washington's hand, or some combination of the two. To me, it looked like it was Washington's hand, but for whatever reason they called it they way they did, and the replay didn't show enough to overturn, in my opinion. For what it's worth, if they called it the other way that would have held up as well after review.

I tend to agree with you. As much as I wanted what looked like an obvious call, to a Packer fan, to be reversed, I started getting the feeling it wouldn't be when I saw no really good angle of it on replay.

It's amazing that sometimes you can almost see Clays groin being pulled, yet they miss a decent angle on something like a punt coming down.

 

[Mondio]

I tend to agree with you. As much as I wanted what looked like an obvious call, to a Packer fan, to be reversed, I started getting the feeling it wouldn't be when I saw no really good angle of it on replay.

It's amazing that sometimes you can almost see Clays groin being pulled, yet they miss a decent angle on something like a punt coming down.

The fact that not a single referee dropped a little blue bag to show it was a live ball means everything. NOBODY dropped one or even reached for one. Why? Because nobody saw it happen. Yet they confer and decide it was possible and call it as such.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Please....... This was indeed not a good crew, but you are mistaken if you think this was in any way "home cooking" for the Lions... At minimum, the OPI calls were borderline at best, there was DPI on the deep ball to Tate that wasn't called (his arm was very clearly grabbed), the holding on Slay could have gone either way (not mad about that one). The illegal shift call was crap, I'll give you that one. The taunting was technically called by the book, but you hardly see that flag thrown anymore.

In total, GB had 12, Detroit had 8. If you look through the play by play, there was (from what I saw) 1 bad call against GB, the illegal shift.

If you want to get into missed calls (on both sides), well sir, we will be here a while....[/QUOT

Let the troll be with you, always...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I definitely get why Jones didn't see the field much, being down by 24-- MM doesn't like him in passing situations. And to a certain extent, you have to defer to a coach on things like that. But I haven't seen anything on the field over the last few games to suggest that Jones isn't an asset on passing downs. His pass pro has been solid and he's more dangerous than the other backs with the ball in his hands. So while I understand MM's reason for not using Jones more, I don't understand the reasoning behind his reason, if that makes sense.

But even if this is who he is, cutting him makes no sense until 2020 at the earliest (and ideally, 2021). Even if he's merely a guy who can help in rotation, that's worth more to the Packers than cutting him and suffering a net loss of 8M in space. I think sometimes fans want under-performing players cut out of spite without giving enough consideration to what makes the most sense for the team.

It seems Jones has improved catching the ball over last season but it's still a pretty small sample size. I would like him to be involved in the passing game more often though.

The Packers could release Perry before the start of free agency next year as the move would result in $3.6 million of cap savings. With him being due a $4.8 million bonus on the third day of the league year they can't wait until after camp though.

No it's not. The Lions run defense was allowing over 5 yards per carry. With 30 minutes left in the game there is no reason to abandon the run especially when the passing game has looked like junk during the first half.

The Packers averaged 7.8 yards per play in the second half. I have a hard time understanding anyone criticizing McCarthy for not running the ball more often as the team averaged 4.6 yards on rushing attempts in the first half.

And it should be noted that Williams did not play on the perimeter for all snaps, taking some in the slot, indicating a preference to play matchups.

Williams has played less than 10% of his defensive snaps in the slot this season though.

I'm sorry, but when you get in that deep of a hole that early it is difficult to feature the run game. Still, there was the series where Jones got those 4 straight carries for 30+ yards in the second half, but with time running short conservation of clock and getting yards in chuncks becomes paramount.

While i agree with your overall point of view that drive happened in the second quarter as Jones didn't receive a single carry after halftime.

Where do you get ur stats

Mostly PFF.

Tony Brown's 15 yard jaw jacking standing over the player was a killer. We were within striking distance and our defense just made a stop and he gave it right back to them. That's a turnover right there and not only did we give the ball back to them, they then let them go down and score.

That brown penalty was really bad, he should know better. We were gaining momentum and I really think we woulda won had we stopped them and scored. Instead, they got a first down and went and scored on us. Big turning point for the game

Just to clarify, the Lions missed a field goal on the drive that was extended by Brown's penalty.

I’d give Martinez a stud vote, but lately I’m wondering if he’s that good, or just running around picking up slack for a defense with a lot of holes.

Martinez has developed into one of the best inside linebackers in the league.

 

[Mondio]

oh, I thought they scored a TD. Ooops. Still a time and momentum killer at that point.

 

[Ken smith]

Duds to placing 100% emphasis on play calling and statistics. Most of its still individual and team performance, desire to win, focus, attitude, and effort.

 

[OldSchool101]

Signing a top FA OLB is off the charts $$ wise, so drafting one is about your best hope. Can the Packers start 2019 with Gilbert, Fackrell and a couple of rookies at OLB?

IF we’re picking in the 2019 draft inside the top 22 or so and NO gets knocked out early in the playoffs? I wouldn’t be opposed to packaging our 1st-3 picks in some fashion to trade up for 2 solid players before pick 20. (#14-#19 range)
Particularly if the right mix of our needed positions are still available.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

oh, I thought they scored a TD. Ooops. Still a time and momentum killer at that point.

That's definitely true as the Lions extended drive took another three minutes off the clock.

 

[MichiganSportsTalk]

Let the troll be with you, always...

Ignore content, go straight for ad hominem attacks. The true mark of someone with a solid argument....

 

[Dantés]

Ignore content, go straight for ad hominem attacks. The true mark of someone with a solid argument....

Ignore him. It isn't worth the engagement.

To the discussion regarding officiating, the Packers didn't get a raw deal. The punt debacle was handled weirdly and I still don't know who touched it first, but that's a bang bang play without good visual evidence to overturn.

The Packers were beneficiaries of some calls too. While technically correct, both OPI calls on Jones are plays that go uncalled all the time. And while Clark was held in the face on the Golladay TD that got called back, you wouldn't expect that type of call if there is really "home cooking" going on.

I was fine with how the game was officiated. The Packers lost because of a disastrous gaffe on ST and because their offense didn't execute.

 

[PackerDNA]

Duds to placing 100% emphasis on play calling and statistics. Most of its still individual and team performance, desire to win, focus, attitude, and effort.

Execution and Pad level, baby.