What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

[Pokerbrat2000]

What if Hock is gone but Fant is still available?

Speaking only for myself, I would be disappointed if the Packers use the #12 pick on Fant. If he is still there at #30 and BPA, go for it.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Speaking only for myself, I would be disappointed if the Packers use the #12 pick on Fant. If he is still there at #30 and BPA, go for it.

I don't like Fant really at all. I'd be happier with Jace Sternberger or Irv Smith TBH. I don't really like any of them.

Fant is a nice athlete, but can't block at all. And his hands on contested catches are questionable at best.

I know Jimmy Graham can't block either. That is one reason why Jimmy has one more year left in Green Bay. By mid season 2019 Hock will be the man if we get him. Hock is like Matt LaFleur's dream TE. Let's be honest. He is every coaches dream TE.

I honestly would be floored if Hock is still there at #12. I am praying. Trust me.

 

[C-Lee]

This thread is a shitshow.

 

[brandon2348]

Are you saying because we didn't cut Graham we won't consider one of the top TEs in this class with any of our first 3 picks?

Partly yes as 3 TE's are under contract. Also because I don't believe any of the TE's worthy of a 1st pick. Maybe in the 2nd round but I doubt it. Gute won't make a foolish mistake and reach for Hockenson who is OVERVALUED.

 

[thequick12]

I agree with you. Gardner-Johnson is my favorite of the bunch as well. GB's propensity to take elite athletes makes me think Thornhill is more likely, however. And Thornhill is really good too, but I don't like his versatility quite as much as CGJ. He won't make it to the 3rd round. Or at least I should say that that would shock me.

CGJ a pretty good athlete too. The way he supports the run reminds me of nick collins. Abd I think he can be that kind of ball hawk as a free safety/slot defender

 

[Dantés]

I know you weren't writing to me but I would just say that I am not questioning between FS and SS with CGJ. I am questioning if he would be better playing slot corner in the NFL. A lot of snaps there in college.

I want a true safety. I feel Thornhill is that guy and you are one of few who know like I do that Thornhill has good qualities of both a FS and SS. And yes in Pettine's D that's a plus.

What I don't know is a fit, is a dude who may be best as a slot CB at the next level like CGJ.

Just my humble opinion.

Like Thornhill, Gardner-Johnson did both in college. Also like Thornhill, I see his best position as a safety. The reason I give him the edge is that I think he's a little bit more reliable playing as a down safety or box defender. So I would argue his skillset is a little bit more well rounded. But I like them both and would guess that the Packers prefer Thornhill.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Partly yes as 3 TE's are under contract. Also because I don't believe any of the TE's worthy of a 1st pick. Maybe in the 2nd round but I doubt it. Gute won't make a foolish mistake and reach for Hockenson who is OVERVALUED.

Seems like your final statement "trumps" everything else you said about your opinion on if the Packers should draft a TE. Basically, "as long as it isn't Hochenson, I'm on board".

"We are going to make the Packers great again and draft Hochenson."

 

[sschind]

I think for the Packers, people should think less in terms of the strong safety/free safety distinction, and more in terms of versatility. Pettine doesn't use safeties in strict roles a la Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. His safeties will be tasked with a variety of responsibilities by virtue of the multiplicity of his defense. In a perfect world, Pettine would have two guys like Amos who can do basically whatever you want him to do. That would allow him to deploy them in a variety of ways and keep his coverage unpredictable. This is why Gardner-Johnson is my favorite of the group. I think he's best set up for that sort of role. I also think Adderley, Thornhill, and Savage could work that way to a lesser extent.

Do you want a really really good FS who is not a very good SS and a really really good SS who is not a very good FS or do you want a really good FS who can be a decent SS and a really good SS who can be a decent FS? Its not quite that simple but unless that really really good guy is one of the best in the game I think I would prefer the versatility of a guy who wouldn't be a liability if he had to switch positions every now and then. It gives the coaches options to change things up occasionally and give different looks.

If that is what you have and one of them misses time you are not quite as dependent on your first backup to be mr versatility. If your really really good FS gets hurt and you top backup is a much better SS then FS becomes a liability. If your starting SS can switch and you don't miss much then the backup can play to his strength. Ideally you will have a backup for each spot who is more proficient at that spot but it doesn't always happen.

 

[brandon2348]

Seems like your final statement "trumps" everything else you said about your opinion on if the Packers should draft a TE. Basically, "as long as it isn't Hochenson, I'm on board".

"We are going to make the Packers great again and draft Hochenson."

Actually once again I have a prospect who I feel better about that we can get later in Jace Sternberger.

No, Hockenson isn't on my GAME CHANGER LIST and people that think there gonna draft him that high with paying Graham the $ they are need to get there head examined. Signing Lewis was the final nail in the coffin on Hockenson not even being considered as Lewis can more then handle the blocking duties.

And for the last time I have TE at the bottom of the priority board for 2019 season. Much bigger needs to get this team over the top and win a SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR.

 

[Dantés]

Do you want a really really good FS who is not a very good SS and a really really good SS who is not a very good FS or do you want a really good FS who can be a decent SS and a really good SS who can be a decent FS? Its not quite that simple but unless that really really good guy is one of the best in the game I think I would prefer the versatility of a guy who wouldn't be a liability if he had to switch positions every now and then. It gives the coaches options to change things up occasionally and give different looks.

If that is what you have and one of them misses time you are not quite as dependent on your first backup to be mr versatility. If your really really good FS gets hurt and you top backup is a much better SS then FS becomes a liability. If your starting SS can switch and you don't miss much then the backup can play to his strength. Ideally you will have a backup for each spot who is more proficient at that spot but it doesn't always happen.

Yeah, I mean bottom line I think if you have a good DC, you just try to get him guys that allow him to do everything he wants to do as easily as possible.

 

[GleefulGary]

I don't like Fant really at all. I'd be happier with Jace Sternberger or Irv Smith TBH. I don't really like any of them.

Fant is a nice athlete, but can't block at all. And his hands on contested catches are questionable at best.

I know Jimmy Graham can't block either. That is one reason why Jimmy has one more year left in Green Bay. By mid season 2019 Hock will be the man if we get him. Hock is like Matt LaFleur's dream TE. Let's be honest. He is every coaches dream TE.

I honestly would be floored if Hock is still there at #12. I am praying. Trust me.

Fant is not a bad blocker. He's not Hock, but he's not a bad blocker.

 

[GleefulGary]

Actually once again I have a prospect who I feel better about that we can get later in Jace Sternberger.

No, Hockenson isn't on my GAME CHANGER LIST and people that think there gonna draft him that high with paying Graham the $ they are need to get there head examined. Signing Lewis was the final nail in the coffin on Hockenson not even being considered as Lewis can more then handle the blocking duties.

And for the last time I have TE at the bottom of the priority board for 2019 season. Much bigger needs to get this team over the top and win a SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR.

Wait...are you saying that you think Sternberger is better than Hock, or that the value of where he's going is better?

I just want to clarify, because when you say you feel better about Sternberger, that sounds to me like you think he's better.

 

[brandon2348]

Wait...are you saying that you think Sternberger is better than Hock, or that the value of where he's going is better?

I just want to clarify, because when you say you feel better about Sternberger, that sounds to me like you think he's better.

Ultimately the value is better in round 3 where I believe you can get Sternberger but I do feel he is in the same realm as a receiver as Hockenson.

Overall I feel safer with Sternberger in 3rd then Hockenson in 1st with the obvious red flags taking Hockenson that early. No TE has ever been taken in the 1st round in the modern day with a 4.7 40 time.

 

[GleefulGary]

Ultimately the value is better in round 3 where I believe you can get Sternberger but I do feel he is in the same realm as a receiver as Hockenson.

Overall I feel safer with Sternberger in 3rd then Hockenson in 1st with the obvious red flags taking Hockenson that early. No TE has ever been taken in the 1st round in the modern day with a 4.7 40 time.

Do you think Sternberger is the better player, or even a similar player, overall compared to Hockenson.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

people that think there gonna draft him that high with paying Graham the $ they are need to get there head examined. Signing Lewis was the final nail in the coffin on Hockenson not even being considered as Lewis can more then handle the blocking duties.

The thing you have to remember, drafting Hochenson or Sternberger or whoever at TE isn't going to be deterred due to having Graham, Lewis or Tonyan under contract. A rookie TE, no matter who it is, isn't going to break the bank nor is he going to be expected to step right in and be a game changer. Any TE the Packers draft is an investment in the future. Also, Tonyan isn't a lock to make the team, none of his money is guaranteed. Not to mention that the Packers may carry 4 TE's. All that said, I think the Packers pick a TE pretty high, who that ends up being is anybody's guess.

One other note, saying "you can't spend high draft resources on a player, because you already have too much invested (Graham) in the position", is poor planning in my opinion. Graham so far hasn't lived up to expectations and probably at best, has 2 seasons, more likely one, left in GB.

 

[brandon2348]

Do you think Sternberger is the better player, or even a similar player, overall compared to Hockenson.

Depends what your looking for. If your looking for an inline TE Hockenson is your guy but if you are looking at a guy you spread out and use in the passing game then Sternberner might be sufficient. I'm quite happy developing Tonyan and I'm sure the Packers are as well.

I'm really getting tired of talking about TE's. It's an overvalued position. Too actually draft a TE(who isn't even that fast or strong) is just INSANE in the 1st round with so much other potential GAME CHANGING TALENT on the board.

The Packers problem is not the TE position. Yes, MM's offense became predictable but the OL was flat out horrific at times and receivers continually lacked getting seperation. Getting Hockenson isnt gonna fix ****. MM or no MM.

This team needs a guy that can get and also set up chunk plays. Nobody is gonna take a second look at Hockenson or any other TE in this draft other then maybe Fant. Hockenson also isnt gonna free anyone else up. A 4.7 from a skilled position player is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW in the NFL!!!!!!!!!!!! It will get by in college but not in the pro's for most.

KC fans are freaking out right now because they actually understand who stirred the drink in that offense. It all played off T. Hill and Andy Reid using formations and motions and everything he could to get Hill matched up correctly and when he couldn't Hill still opened things up for everyone else by commanding attention. Hill stressed the defense constantly. Not Sammy Watkins. Not Kelce. Not anyone else. That team takes at least one step down without T. HILL and might not even be a serious Super Bowl contender without Hill.

We need the guy who is going to stress the defense that way and his name isnt TJ Hockenson.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Nobody is gonna take a second look at Hockenson or any other TE in this draft other then maybe Fant. Hockenson also isnt gonna free anyone else up. A 4.7 from a skilled position player is SLOOOOOOOWWWWWW in the NFL!!!!!!!!!!!! It will get by in college but not in the pro's for most.

Gronk ran a 4.68 pre-injuries, you think he wasn't a game changer?

 

[brandon2348]

The thing you have to remember, drafting Hochenson or Sternberger or whoever at TE isn't going to be deterred due to having Graham, Lewis or Tonyan under contract. A rookie TE, no matter who it is, isn't going to break the bank nor is he going to be expected to step right in and be a game changer. Any TE the Packers draft is an investment in the future. Also, Tonyan isn't a lock to make the team, none of his money is guaranteed. Not to mention that the Packers may carry 4 TE's. All that said, I think the Packers pick a TE pretty high, who that ends up being is anybody's guess.

One other note, saying "you can't spend high draft resources on a player, because you already have too much invested (Graham) in the position", is poor planning in my opinion. Graham so far hasn't lived up to expectations and probably at best, has 2 seasons, more likely one, left in GB.

You draft guys at 12 to PLAY NOW and HELP NOW. No team has the luxury of developing the 12th overall pick unless it's a QB.

With that said if the Packers skipped Free Agency I could see looking down the road on a player but what they did in free agency says 2019 WERE GOING FOR IT.

Were not drafting the dude. People need to get over it.

 

[brandon2348]

And this "Running the ball more" is laughable too. They might run it a little more but if you think Matt Lafluer is gonna come in and take the ball out of Rodgers hand and its gonna fly you really need some brain testing done.

2 losses in a row of that **** and its OUT THE WINDOW. Otherwise you would have chaos.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You draft guys at 12 to PLAY NOW and HELP NOW. No team has the luxury of developing the 12th overall pick unless it's a QB.

Or you swing for the fences and potentially bust out, like so many have with top.....12 picks. I would say there are a number of players that will be picked in the top 15 of the draft, that I feel could go either way, boom or bust. While I am not 100% on Hochenson being a full on boom, I have no worries of him being a bust.

Were not drafting the dude. People need to get over it.

Finally, you are 100% correct. We aren't......but the Packers just might.

 

[PackinMSP]

I think the main point for creating this thread is if you can get a game changing TE like Gronk...then it's worth it


He basically extended TB's Super Bowl window...well BB did too obviously

 

[brandon2348]

Or you swing for the fences and bust out, like so many have with top.....12 picks.



Finally, you are 100% correct. We aren't......but the Packers just might.

Hockenson is "swinging for the fences"

No TE as slow as him has ever been drafted in the 1st round. Let's not forget the other red flag which were his 17 reps in the bench. Hardly what you want to see from a sure lock NFlL blocking TE.

He also hardly looks like a physical speciman.

Drafting him is basically hoping he becomes the next Gronk and he overcomes his limitations. If that's not swinging for the fences I don't know what is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hockenson is "swinging for the fences"

No TE as slow as him has ever been drafted in the 1st round. Let's not forget the other red flag which were his 17 reps in the bench. Hardly what you want to see from a sure lock NFlL blocking TE.

He also hardly looks like a physical speciman.

Drafting him is basically hoping he becomes the next Gronk and he overcomes his limitations. If that's not swinging for the fences I don't know what is.

Yet, pretty much every scout and draft board has him rated as the #1 TE in the draft going in the top 15. Somebody is wrong here.....let me see.....ok......hand over the photos of him that you have.

Of course with that, I have to acknowledge, that so far all of the pre-draft info on George Kittle seems to have been off.

 

[brandon2348]

Yet, pretty much every scout and draft board has him rated as the #1 TE in the draft going in the top 15. Somebody is wrong here.....let me see.....ok......hand over the photos of him that you have.

Of course with that, I have to acknowledge, that so far all of the pre-draft info on George Kittle seems to have been off.

Taking a TE in the 1st round is ridiculous to begin with unless your maybe the Seattle Seahawks and are playing "Schotty Ball".

There hasn't been that much success with it either.

Then there are the immediate needs end of it. IMO the Packers just cant afford to take a flier on a TE with needing STARTERS right now.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Then there are the immediate needs end of it. IMO the Packers just cant afford to take a flier on a TE with needing STARTERS right now.

and.....your right now.....starters that will be available at #12 are?