What Safety is there at 12? Or Hockenson ~ the next Gronk

[Dantés]

Well of course Edge would rate higher on the VALUE LIST then TE and the urgency to reach a little there. I see ZERO REASONS to reach for a TE if your the Packers.

Translation: Another one of my glaring contradictions was pointed out so I'm moving the goal posts... again.

 

[brandon2348]

Translation: Another one of my glaring contradictions was pointed out so I'm moving the goal posts... again.

I'm not "moving any goal posts". Simply stating that Edge is a more valued position then TE. Not sure how that is soooooooo hard for you to understand.

YOU DON'T DRAFT TE'S IN THE TOP HALF OF THE FIRST ROUND! PERIOD!

Especially one that isnt even an elite athlete.

 

[sschind]

I'm not "moving any goal posts". Simply stating that Edge is a more valued position then TE. Not sure how that is soooooooo hard for you to understand.

YOU DON'T DRAFT TE'S IN THE TOP HALF OF THE FIRST ROUND! PERIOD!

Especially one that isnt even an elite athlete.

I can respect your dislike for Hockenson at 12 as you have put forth your reasons many times. I also respect that you have said that you don't really dislike him as a player you just have others you like better and you certainly don't like him at 12 which is different than saying stay away from him he will be a bust. However, I have to ask you this question.

Since you are so adamant that you should NEVER draft a TE in the first half of the first round and ESPECIALLY one with Hockenson's numbers how do YOU explain the number of people picking him as the #1 TE prospect and who have him going in the top half of the draft?

I hope your answer isn't simply BECAUSE THEY ARE STUPID because with the number of opinions leaning towards your assessment and the number leaning the other way it would indicate that they are not the stupid ones in this case. CLEARLY a lot of people are seeing something that you are not seeing in Hockenson or he wouldn't be so popular as a top 15 pick. What do you think they are seeing that you are not. Everyone saw what he did at the combine so his numbers are out there. Why do you think everyone is seeing his numbers differently than you are or why do you think they don't think they matter as much as you think they matter (I know, that's a tough one to follow)

I'm just curious as to why you think so many people disagree with you about Hockenson.

 

[Dantés]

I'm not "moving any goal posts". Simply stating that Edge is a more valued position then TE. Not sure how that is soooooooo hard for you to understand.

YOU DON'T DRAFT TE'S IN THE TOP HALF OF THE FIRST ROUND! PERIOD!

Especially one that isnt even an elite athlete.

"I am not for drafting players that lack elite athletic ability in the 1st round"

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

2006 was Ted's second draft and he like Gute this year knew he had to hit on his top 3 picks in the draft.

Ted took A.J. Hawk at #5 and while A.J. was a positive addition to the team and generally a solid player in his Green Bay career, he never played to the level worthy of the #5 pick in the draft.

There was a highly touted TE out of Maryland still on the board when Ted selected Hawk....

...I do believe if Vernon Davis was drafted at #5 we may have 2 or more Super Bowls out of the team Ted built rather than one. I believe Davis would have had a much better career in Green Bay. He had good career, but had Ted taken him in '06 it may have been great for both sides. Just a thought for those saying YOU NEVER TAKE A TE in the Top 15.

Ted took Darren Colledge with his 2nd pick in that draft. Colledge started at guard for 4 years and helped the Pack get another Lombardi.

Ted took Greg Jennings with his third pick in that draft.

Let's hope Gute this year does at least as well as Ted did with his first 3 picks in 2006. Perhaps Gute will remember 2006 and take the TE this time. Stay tuned.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm not "moving any goal posts". Simply stating that Edge is a more valued position then TE. Not sure how that is soooooooo hard for you to understand.

YOU DON'T DRAFT TE'S IN THE TOP HALF OF THE FIRST ROUND! PERIOD!

Especially one that isnt even an elite athlete.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Yup. This guy is NOT an elite athlete. Please ignore all of those green boxes and only focus on the long straight line speed.

 

[GleefulGary]

91st percentile athlete, but not good enough for the 1st round.

 

[brandon2348]

I can respect your dislike for Hockenson at 12 as you have put forth your reasons many times. I also respect that you have said that you don't really dislike him as a player you just have others you like better and you certainly don't like him at 12 which is different than saying stay away from him he will be a bust. However, I have to ask you this question.

Since you are so adamant that you should NEVER draft a TE in the first half of the first round and ESPECIALLY one with Hockenson's numbers how do YOU explain the number of people picking him as the #1 TE prospect and who have him going in the top half of the draft?

I hope your answer isn't simply BECAUSE THEY ARE STUPID because with the number of opinions leaning towards your assessment and the number leaning the other way it would indicate that they are not the stupid ones in this case. CLEARLY a lot of people are seeing something that you are not seeing in Hockenson or he wouldn't be so popular as a top 15 pick. What do you think they are seeing that you are not. Everyone saw what he did at the combine so his numbers are out there. Why do you think everyone is seeing his numbers differently than you are or why do you think they don't think they matter as much as you think they matter (I know, that's a tough one to follow)

I'm just curious as to why you think so many people disagree with you about Hockenson.

I believe Hockenson to be a SAFE PiCK as he is a really good football player. However, while the bust ceiling is low on him I don't see a HIGH ENOUGH CEILING in the other direction for my liking to pick him that high. When I think of a TOP 12 pick I want a GAME CHANGER and to me Hockenson isn't. Partly because he plays the TE POSITION and partly because he lacks ELITE ATHLETiCISM.

Then you throw in the players the Packers have under contract at TE along with needing immediate starters elsewhere and Hockenson makes ZERO SENSE to me.

If the Packers were set at the Slot and had a legit no.2 along with a solidified OL then sure go add a top pick TE as the cherry on top but were far from being in that situation. And even if we were in that situation my choice would be Fant as he has the higher ceiling and believe he athletically could put more stress on opposing defenses.

One thing I've learned over the years is that a Great College Player doesn't always equate to a Great NFL Player. The NFL playing speed is just at an entirely different level then the college game. Then you throw in all the new rules in the NFL which puts even more of a premium on speed. It makes it even harder for players to overcome SPEED LIMITATIONS. This is not to say that Hockenson can not do that but IMO the deck is already stacked against him. If he can't project to the next level people will automatically point to the reasons I have layed out in my posts as obvious. What a team could be left with is a TE version of AJ Hawk which would be a disappointment for such a high draft pick.

Not what I want to sign up for.

 

[brandon2348]

91st percentile athlete, but not good enough for the 1st round.

91 percentile isnt ELITE on boards.

98 percentile IS. . Quite Frankly I expect more.

 

[brandon2348]

2006 was Ted's second draft and he like Gute this year knew he had to hit on his top 3 picks in the draft.

Ted took A.J. Hawk at #5 and while A.J. was a positive addition to the team and generally a solid player in his Green Bay career, he never played to the level worthy of the #5 pick in the draft.

There was a highly touted TE out of Maryland still on the board when Ted selected Hawk....

...I do believe if Vernon Davis was drafted at #5 we may have 2 or more Super Bowls out of the team Ted built rather than one. I believe Davis would have had a much better career in Green Bay. He had good career, but had Ted taken him in '06 it may have been great for both sides. Just a thought for those saying YOU NEVER TAKE A TE in the Top 15.

Ted took Darren Colledge with his 2nd pick in that draft. Colledge started at guard for 4 years and helped the Pack get another Lombardi.

Ted took Greg Jennings with his third pick in that draft.

Let's hope Gute this year does at least as well as Ted did with his first 3 picks in 2006. Perhaps Gute will remember 2006 and take the TE this time. Stay tuned.

Vernon Davis had ELITE SPEED AND ATHLETICISM though.

 

[GleefulGary]

91 percentile isnt ELITE on boards.

98 percentile IS. . Quite Frankly I expect more.

Lol WHAT?!

Being a better athlete than 91% isn't elite? Do you even understand just how stupid that sounds? Like...being in the 50th percentile is average. 90 and above is exceptional.

**** for brains.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Vernon Davis had ELITE SPEED AND ATHLETICISM though.

I prefer a TE to check off more ELITE boxes than just a couple.

Fant doesn't have ELITE hands or blocking skills. He can't block or catch in traffic. Those are absolutely HUGE NEGATIVES for a TE.

The small difference in combine numbers you are basing your dislike of T.J. off are not enough to rate Fant as the ELITE TE of the two. T.J. is a blue chip prospect. Fant is not.

 

[brandon2348]

Lol WHAT?!

Being a better athlete than 91% isn't elite? Do you even understand just how stupid that sounds? Like...being in the 50th percentile is average. 90 and above is exceptional.


**** for brains.

Bench Press 21st Percentile

3 Cone 77th Percentile

40 yard dash 68th Percentile

Throw in his MINIATURE arms and hands and this is a DISASTER waiting to happen.

 

[OldSchool101]

Jermichael Finley is an example of how to pick at TE. He was raw but a rising star with great hands and good blocking. But while he was raw and relatively slow, he had extremely good football acumen. His ability to fight for the ball, high point, win contested catches and contort his body in the end showed more crucial to performance on the field.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jermichael-finley?id=1072

What made him get picked was high upside. We don’t necessarily have to get a TE top 10 to get performance. We just need to be smart about the player that fits. Aaron Rodgers will do the rest.

 

[brandon2348]

I prefer a TE to check off more ELITE boxes than just a couple.

Fant doesn't have ELITE hands or blocking skills. He can't block or catch in traffic. Those are absolutely HUGE NEGATIVES for a TE.

The small difference in combine numbers you are basing your dislike of T.J. off are not enough to rate Fant as the ELITE TE of the two. T.J. is a blue chip prospect. Fant is not.

Mike Gesickii was a better prospect then Hockenson

 

[brandon2348]

Jermichael Finley is an example of how to pick at TE. He was raw but a rising star with great hands and good blocking. But while he was raw and relatively slow, he had extremely good football acumen. His ability to fight for the ball, high point, win contested catches and contort his body in the end showed more crucial to performance on the field.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jermichael-finley?id=1072

What made him get picked was high upside. We don’t necessarily have to get a TE top 10 to get performance. We just need to be smart about the player that fits. Aaron Rodgers will do the rest.

And they drafted him in the 3RD ROUND where you should draft a TE unless he is some ATHLETIC FREAK with TAPE TO MATCH.

That is not TJ Hockenson.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Mike Gesickii was a better prospect then Hockenson

You are a clown and a troll. One more idiotic troll post and you are going on ignore. I don't deal well with clowns and trolls. Sorry.

I have very limited time in life to waste reading drivel on the internet. That limited time will not be spent on you typing and just looking for attention.

 

[brandon2348]

You are a clown and a troll. One more idiotic troll post and you are going on ignore. I don't deal well with clowns and trolls. Sorry.

I have very limited time in life to waste reading drivel on the internet. That limited time will not be spent on you typing and just looking for attention.

GOOD POINT! because I have about equal time to SPEND ON YOUR WET DREAM FAIRY TALE!

 

[brandon2348]

If the Packers are dumb enough to pass up on an elite O-Lineman or D-Lineman to draft sub-par TJ Hockenson with the 12th Pick I'm DONE!

 

[GleefulGary]

Bench Press 21st Percentile

3 Cone 77th Percentile

40 yard dash 68th Percentile

Throw in his MINIATURE arms and hands and this is a DISASTER waiting to happen.

If you're going off of mockdraftable, that doesn't account for his size. Example, a 4.7 at 250 is more impressive than a 4.7 at 220. Get it? That's why RAS is a better system.

 

[GleefulGary]

Mike Gesickii was a better prospect then Hockenson

...

A better athlete? Yes.

A better prospect? Not even comparable. Like...not even close man. You watching the same tape?

 

[brandon2348]

If you're going off of mockdraftable, that doesn't account for his size. Example, a 4.7 at 250 is more impressive than a 4.7 at 220. Get it? That's why RAS is a better system.

Well Noah Fant doesn't have to make that excuse.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/noah-fant

Never seen so many people make EXCUSES for a prospect.

 

[Dantés]

Oh please Brandon and InGute. Don't put each other on ignore. Please!

This could be the pissing contest to end all pissing contests!

 

[GleefulGary]

Well Noah Fant doesn't have to make that excuse.

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/noah-fant

Never seen so many people make EXCUSES for a prospect.

Brandon, reality and facts are not excuses. Try not to be a child here, please.

 

[Dantés]

Brandon, reality and facts are not excuses. Try not to be a child here, please.

Hey, you're the one trying to reason with a 2 year old.