The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Krabs]

There's a lot of problems on the Packers. There is no doubt about that. With this being the Jordan Love thread I'll just stick to him. From what I have seen he is not very accurate. Regardless of the pressure in the pocket, I've seen arrant throws. His deep ball needs a lot of work. He doesn't seem to know what type of touch he should put on the ball and at what times. IMO, his progress should be a lot further along with how long he has gotten to train. Maybe it is my problem with being patient, but I don't want to waste 3-4 more years finding out that Love is not our guy. I don't think the Packers will draft a QB, but I sure wish they would.

 

[rmontro]

Regardless of the pressure in the pocket, I've seen arrant throws. His deep ball needs a lot of work. He doesn't seem to know what type of touch he should put on the ball and at what times.

Something about his throws, especially the longer ones, reminds me of a wounded duck. Maybe he's just trying to put more touch on those, or maybe I'm just spoiled from watching Favre and Rodgers for so many years. Both of them had rifles for arms.

 

[Spanky]

Chris Simms saying it may be time for the Packers to see what they have in Sean Clifford...

 

[AKCheese]

This is Love’s team for the next 24 games barring injury or off field issues

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess that's why I don't feel like I can fully evaluate him. I'd like to see him with a decent OL. These guys are bad.

True that. Had he been playing like this with Lazard and maybe Marcedes still here in the mix? and maybe Bakh playing 75% of the time? Then we’re just young on a relative scale.
Keep in mind we also lost Tonyan, Cobb. It was basically a full house cleaning on Offense once Bak and Jenkins went down and Jones got knocked out and Watson wasn’t playing? Who was our leader? Deguara? He’s at best TE3 production. Dillon? He’s a RB2 on most teams.

That said it should turn the corner next year and normalize by 2025.

 

[El Guapo]

Let's get brutally honest. There is not one bright spot on this offense, or team for that matter. D-line and linebackers are pretty good, but the secondary stinks - both due to injury (CB) and talent (S).

The entire offense stinks. The WRs are disgustingly bad in every facet this season. The tight ends are remarkably bad, but Musgrave shows flashes that he has talent as a pass catcher. However, he looks like Jermichael Finley 2.0 - questionable hands and poor blocking. The offensive line is offensive. Dillon is mostly bad and Jones has been hurt, but even now that he's healthy really can't do much.

All that means that I have no clue how to grade Love. He stands tall in the pocket. I could stand to see a few more designed runs (not RPO's!) and scrambles. He isn't accurate but generally gets the ball there. I see promise but it's like trying to figure out how much sparkle is in a gem that you pulled out of a giant pile of poop. I really don't know where to start or how long I'll need to clean poop before I can see the stone for what it really is.

 

[tynimiller]

@El Guapo I love ya man but hard disagree if you feel zero exists on offensive side of the ball that is a bright spot or spots...save you mention Musgrave, the young man that God love him could block a parked bicycle right now.

BUT your last bit is spot on to how I feel on Love...it is a very daunting and depressing feeling.

 

[Magooch]

From what I have seen he is not very accurate. Regardless of the pressure in the pocket, I've seen arrant throws. His deep ball needs a lot of work. He doesn't seem to know what type of touch he should put on the ball and at what times. IMO, his progress should be a lot further along with how long he has gotten to train.

This is what I take most issue with.

It’d be one thing I’d Love had previously been an accurate passer and got to the league and was stuck with a bunch of new receivers and a crummy OL and suddenly his accuracy took a big hit. But that’s not totally the case - Love had a lot of question marks regarding accuracy and decision making in college too, and so far has not really done anything to alleviate those concerns.

And at the end of the day I am just not sure how likely it is that much changes there. It is very, very rare for a player to be a not-particularly-accurate passer in college and a bottom-of-the-league inaccurate passer entering the league to be able to radically turn themselves around into a “franchise building block” type of accurate passer.

Of course there are some exceptions to that rule, and some players certainly do improve, but 180 degree turns in this area are again exceedingly rare. And so in that sense it more or less makes it seem like we are hinging our hopes on Love being the rare exception to the rule who was not particularly accurate in college and not particularly accurate as a pro to at some point - somehow - turn himself into the type of accurate passer you can build a team around. And yes - some of that is impacted by your receivers and OL and likely would improve with better receivers and a better OL, but at the same time opportunities to show off proper decision making and accuracy do not always require having the support of a great OL and great receivers. You can make a fundamentally good and accurate pass that’s dropped by a poor WR, and that’s fine, just in the same way that a great WR might be able to make something out of a fundamentally bad pass. All that to say that while I’m sure it has an impact I am not convinced that WR and/or OL play is a totally adequate explanation for some of his accuracy issues.

(And that’s not to say he’s ALWAYS inaccurate or never makes good throws because of course that’s not the case. But while I’d like to be proven wrong I just have a hard time envisioning a scenario in which he becomes a guy who is *consistently* making the right decision and executing it accurately.)

 

[Krabs]

This is what I take most issue with.

It’d be one thing I’d Love had previously been an accurate passer and got to the league and was stuck with a bunch of new receivers and a crummy OL and suddenly his accuracy took a big hit. But that’s not totally the case - Love had a lot of question marks regarding accuracy and decision making in college too, and so far has not really done anything to alleviate those concerns.

And at the end of the day I am just not sure how likely it is that much changes there. It is very, very rare for a player to be a not-particularly-accurate passer in college and a bottom-of-the-league inaccurate passer entering the league to be able to radically turn themselves around into a “franchise building block” type of accurate passer.

Of course there are some exceptions to that rule, and some players certainly do improve, but 180 degree turns in this area are again exceedingly rare. And so in that sense it more or less makes it seem like we are hinging our hopes on Love being the rare exception to the rule who was not particularly accurate in college and not particularly accurate as a pro to at some point - somehow - turn himself into the type of accurate passer you can build a team around. And yes - some of that is impacted by your receivers and OL and likely would improve with better receivers and a better OL, but at the same time opportunities to show off proper decision making and accuracy do not always require having the support of a great OL and great receivers. You can make a fundamentally good and accurate pass that’s dropped by a poor WR, and that’s fine, just in the same way that a great WR might be able to make something out of a fundamentally bad pass. All that to say that while I’m sure it has an impact I am not convinced that WR and/or OL play is a totally adequate explanation for some of his accuracy issues.

(And that’s not to say he’s ALWAYS inaccurate or never makes good throws because of course that’s not the case. But while I’d like to be proven wrong I just have a hard time envisioning a scenario in which he becomes a guy who is *consistently* making the right decision and executing it accurately.)

Very well said. He has made throws and he has made plays with his legs. They are just not consistent enough. I don't see it changing and I don't want to waste the good young talent we have finding out what we already know.

 

[milani]

I guess that's why I don't feel like I can fully evaluate him. I'd like to see him with a decent OL. These guys are bad.

Even the infamous SB QB, Rex Grossman, played behind a superb O line.

 

[tynimiller]

Very well said. He has made throws and he has made plays with his legs. They are just not consistent enough. I don't see it changing and I don't want to waste the good young talent we have finding out what we already know.

I just struggle to see how you can say we are wasting the good young talent elsewhere by using him....the rest of the young talent on the team is just as inconsistent. Pick any rookie or second year guy and man some times they look like legit starters in the NFL, other times they look like the CFL is more their speed.

 

[Krabs]

I just struggle to see how you can say we are wasting the good young talent elsewhere by using him....the rest of the young talent on the team is just as inconsistent. Pick any rookie or second year guy and man some times they look like legit starters in the NFL, other times they look like the CFL is more their speed.

Doubs, Watson, Musgrave, Reed, and Wicks look like professional players to me. I would disagree that they look like CFL talent. They will kill it in that league. Probably be a 5 way tie for Canadian Player of the Year. One can live with a few mistakes from young skill players. Quarterbacks are the key to the entire system. I agree there have been drops. It's just different as a QB1. In the end, I really do hope I'm wrong. I think Love is a stand up guy. He's a hard worker and drama free. Even with those assets, the most important is having the ability to make the right throw under all circumstances that a game can throw at you. I just don't see it. It's all opinion and I've been wrong a lot.

 

[milani]

There's a lot of problems on the Packers. There is no doubt about that. With this being the Jordan Love thread I'll just stick to him. From what I have seen he is not very accurate. Regardless of the pressure in the pocket, I've seen arrant throws. His deep ball needs a lot of work. He doesn't seem to know what type of touch he should put on the ball and at what times. IMO, his progress should be a lot further along with how long he has gotten to train. Maybe it is my problem with being patient, but I don't want to waste 3-4 more years finding out that Love is not our guy. I don't think the Packers will draft a QB, but I sure wish they would.

Before Favre and Rodgers the Packers gave a lot of QBs a lot more than 7 games to show something. ( Excepting Majik who missed almost as many games as he started) We learned Tolzien would never make it in just a few weeks. Hundley got more time but did not have it. Matt Flynn proved to be a decent backup but unlikely a FT starter. Looking at this year's roster Love will be pressed to be successful. He can improve but how much?

 

[OldSchool101]

There's a lot of problems on the Packers. There is no doubt about that. With this being the Jordan Love thread I'll just stick to him. From what I have seen he is not very accurate. Regardless of the pressure in the pocket, I've seen arrant throws. His deep ball needs a lot of work. He doesn't seem to know what type of touch he should put on the ball and at what times. IMO, his progress should be a lot further along with how long he has gotten to train. Maybe it is my problem with being patient, but I don't want to waste 3-4 more years finding out that Love is not our guy. I don't think the Packers will draft a QB, but I sure wish they would.

I understand your frustration. I’m not opposed to drafting another QB just for the record. Particularly if Shedur is sniffing Round 2. I’d use a 3rd in some capacity and move up and get him. We could do the reverse of Ted and move up into late Day1 without too much pain. Ted moved back for opening pick of Round 4. I’m sure we could similarly use 1 of our Round 3 selections (in some packaging) to climb the board several spots.

Fortunately I think Brian agrees with you and so do I. Imo Jordan has remainder of 2023 and maybe maybe part of 2024 also. That’s about as far as I see him going if he’s not improving. We’re talking this time next year. Which will go by fast.

Brian gave us an easy out with $13m dead to walk away. He can even trade him if he feels like we’re ready to move on. We now have
an early Day 1 draft pick
2- 2nd Rounders including a top 40
2- 3rd Rounders including a top 70

Plenty of ammo to grab another QB without phasing us.

 

[U.P. Packfan]

I haven't read all of this thread so I apologize if this has already been said. The problem that I see with Love is his lack of accuracy. There have been a ton of "drops" this season that are more due to the ball not being placed in a position where the receiver could catch it without the DB being able to knock it out of his hands. There have also been an awful lot of deep throws that are off target. While accuracy can sometimes be fixed with coaching/teaching better form you would think that this would have been taught for the past 3 seasons. I like Love's decision making for a first year starter and it looks to me like he is a good leader. I just question whether he will ever be able to consistently put the ball in the correct spot.

 

[thequick12]

Yeah and some pass catchers that go up and make some plays, I get these guys are young and will get better each week, presumably...But I mean for example while I think Jayden Reed is a player. Is there anyway you can blame that int on Love? To me the answer is a resounding, no. Reed had the ball in both hands and failed to secure it on what should of been a big play for the Packers offense. Instead it goes down on the stat sheet as an int for Love

 

[rmontro]

Chris Simms saying it may be time for the Packers to see what they have in Sean Clifford...

I like Clifford, but I agree with @AKCheese this is Love's team for the next two years barring injury. And though Clifford played well, he didn't outplay Love in preseason. Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing them give him a try at some point, but I'm not expecting it.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree with all of you. I actually mean it!
One thing I found interesting is I went back and looked through several scouting evaluations on Love. One of his strengths was supposedly putting air under longer throws abs giving his WR a chance to 50/50 it.

I find it odd that this is suddenly his weakness. I don’t know, but if that’s a strength in college I find it strange he’s throwing it 2 yards short now.

Although last week his passes looked better imo. His stat line was more normal (taking out the INT). Which everyone knows that INT was not a bad pass

 

[milani]

Yeah and some pass catchers that go up and make some plays, I get these guys are young and will get better each week, presumably...But I mean for example while I think Jayden Reed is a player. Is there anyway you can blame that int on Love? To me the answer is a resounding, no. Reed had the ball in both hands and failed to secure it on what should of been a big play for the Packers offense. Instead it goes down on the stat sheet as an int for Love

Not sure on Love there. If he throws deeper over the top it is probably incomplete but not intercepted. But how many Vikings were there when he the ball arrived? Was he throwing into coverage? Lazard probably makes that catch because of his height and strength.

 

[rmontro]

Maybe the defensive backs in the NFL are better (and faster) than in college?

 

[El Guapo]

@El Guapo I love ya man but hard disagree if you feel zero exists on offensive side of the ball that is a bright spot or spots...save you mention Musgrave, the young man that God love him could block a parked bicycle right now.

I feel that there is potential on offense, but nobody is showing it right now. It is the perfect storm of everybody playing poorly at the same time.

 

[tynimiller]

Watched the All22 film from last week. I honestly concur with Warner. Love was no where near the problem last game. Not even close to being the issue.

 

[longtimefan]

Watched the All22 film from last week. I honestly concur with Warner. Love was no where near the problem last game. Not even close to being the issue.

Kurt can’t have a solid grasp on Love. Internet evaluations from fans and the Colin Cowherd’s of the pod cast world are only ones to trust.

even if love has big issues he needs to fix, no one should believe Kurt or Aaron

 

[PackerDNA]

Kurt can’t have a solid grasp on Love. Internet evaluations from fans and the Colin Cowherd’s of the pod cast world are only ones to trust.

even if love has big issues he needs to fix, no one should believe Kurt or Aaron

I still have confidence in Love. But man, I didn't expect the team to be this bad.

 

[rmontro]

I feel that there is potential on offense, but nobody is showing it right now. It is the perfect storm of everybody playing poorly at the same time.

Yeah, look back at the game we played against the Bears. It's hard to believe this is even the same team. I know it was the Bears, but come on.