The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Sunshinepacker]

I thought that was pretty clear that it was we as fans I was talking about. None of us have anything to do with what happens at 1265. Where the hell did I say anything about the team just enjoying the ride?

You said the fans need to enjoy the ride. Fans tend to be the ones that the front office answers to, much like companies. If fans are content with a crummy product, companies don't generally feel a lot of pressure to innovate/improve. The reason I think the front office can't "enjoy the ride" is because fans shouldn't be forced to just enjoy the ride of mediocrity.

 

[OldSchool101]

It’s been mentioned elsewhere, but previously the team felt confident enough in Rodgers to sign him to a long-term deal on October 31 of his first starting season.

That’s about a week away.

Hypothetically speaking, if you HAD to choose on October 31 of this year whether or not you’d commit long-term to Love, how many can honestly say they’d be willing to make that commitment at this point?

I see your point.
I just can’t make a direct comparison of Rodgers to Love. 2 reasons
1. Very few QB’s will = #12
2. Experience (or lack thereof) of each Offense… to be continued.

I’ll post the experience level in the upcoming minutes. Just saving my place

 

[longtimefan]

I see your point.
I just can’t make a direct comparison of Rodgers to Love. 2 reasons
1. Very few QB’s will = #12
2. Experience (or lack thereof) of each Offense… to be continued.

I’ll post the experience level in the upcoming minutes. Just saving my place

Rodgers was gifted 2017 nfcc squad

Love was gifted.......shhhhh

People here mentioned the offense was horrible in 2022

 

[OldSchool101]

I had posted this earlier in another thread because these were the MOST INEXPERIENCED TEAMS in the NFL in 2023 in games played as an entire team. However It’s important to break out Offense experience here because this is about Jordan Love as it related to our Offense.
2023 youngest teams broken out by OFFENSE
LA Rams
692 games
Houston Texans
715 games
Arizona Cardinals
557 games
Chicago Bears
514 games
Green Bay Packers
308 games
Seattle Seahawks
529 games
New England Patriots
743 games
2008 Green Bay Packers
748 games

I’m not expressing my conclusion, just posting a fact as it relates to other “young” teams. Are there any abnormal ones that stick out to you guys? It’s like Sesame Street, pick which teams’ totals don’t fit with the rest.

 

[OldSchool101]

The cumulative records of these young teams grouping after 6-7 contests into their respective season (including Rodgers 2008 season) ??
19 wins 27 losses

Thats what relative inexperienced examples gets you. Yet the Packers are unarguably by far the least experienced of all Offenses across the league and it’s by a mile
GB Offense = #1 inexperience

Rodgers didn’t play with a young Offense in 2008 as his (752 combined games) was very average.

Then you pull #33 for how many games? He’s the most experienced Offensive player we have and people say it shouldn’t make a difference

AJ Dillon led the Packers in Rushing yards (34) and Receiving yards (61) last week. Some of you said he’s not even worthy of being a starter and he was best/healthiest player in Denver. So yeah, we’re not exactly peaking in performance, reliability and Weaponry

 

[Magooch]

I see your point.
I just can’t make a direct comparison of Rodgers to Love. 2 reasons
1. Very few QB’s will = #12
2. Experience (or lack thereof) of each Offense… to be continued.

I’ll post the experience level in the upcoming minutes. Just saving my place

Take Rodgers out of the equation entirely then and ask it like this: what would you need to see out of Love to feel comfortable committing to him long-term? How long do you think it might take to see that (if ever)?

 

[OldSchool101]

Take Rodgers out of the equation entirely then and ask it like this: what would you need to see out of Love to feel comfortable committing to him long-term? How long do you think it might take to see that (if ever)?

Good question.
For me I think like a GM. At some point there is going to be a threshold we cross between his performance (perceived growth) his compensation and our medium term projection as far as means of draft collateral and ability or willingness to move on.

Full commitment to a new contract is sort of a moving target because sometimes other options present themselves. I think right now Jordan Love does NOT have the adequate supporting components needed for success. It reminds me of his Junior College year with a brand new Offense. He’s doing what every young QB does and making mistakes, but his “total picture” supporting cast is not very desirable.. just yet.

Mid 2024? maybe mid-late 2024

 

[BrokenArrow]

You said the fans need to enjoy the ride. Fans tend to be the ones that the front office answers to, much like companies. If fans are content with a crummy product, companies don't generally feel a lot of pressure to innovate/improve. The reason I think the front office can't "enjoy the ride" is because fans shouldn't be forced to just enjoy the ride of mediocrity.

You completely miss the point. The point is, why waste your time worrying over things you can't control? What will happen will happen, and there is absolutely NOTHING you and I can do to change it. Que sera sera. But hey, if you want to be bitter and angry all the time, more power to ya.

 

[OldSchool101]

Imo Some of Jordan’s shortcomings get amplified by his substandard supporting cast. Now I’m not suggesting they are all bad players or any such thing. It’s more a mixture of dinged up veterans who have missed substantial time, inexperience at WR/TE and then a few weaker links at LT, Center, RG (I’m not overly impressed with any of these 3)

If we had 1 more upper echelon WR, a bonafide LT and 1 veteran TE and a healthy RB1 we’d be fine. That can be achieved next FA/draft.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You completely miss the point. The point is, why waste your time worrying over things you can't control? What will happen will happen, and there is absolutely NOTHING you and I can do to change it. Que sera sera. But hey, if you want to be bitter and angry all the time, more power to ya.

It's a fun sentiment but I prefer to think of ways things could improve rather than just taking it all in and being content with whatever happens. Again, "que sera sera" is a fun concept, but it leads to fans not holding the front office accountable.

 

[BrokenArrow]

It's a fun sentiment but I prefer to think of ways things could improve rather than just taking it all in and being content with whatever happens. Again, "que sera sera" is a fun concept, but it leads to fans not holding the front office accountable.

So how are you holding the front office accountable, exactly? Are you refusing to buy tickets? Picketing in front of Lambeau on your lunch break? Not sure I'm understanding where you think you and I have any influence on things. Words on this forum sure as hell don't have any effect.

 

[tynimiller]

What has Gute done that people are okay with thinking he knows how to build an offense? Since 2018, the only offensive players I can point to as good players for where they were taken are Jenkins and Watson.

Wait...what? I think you forgot some guys - three that quickly came to mind:


MVS for starters. 5th round receiver who has more yards in the NFL than all but 5 WRs taken in the draft - all ahead of him. He didn't have many WRs that draft go after him but 13 ahead of him he has blown out of the water on production. He's made 57 starts in his career so far and right now is an everyday starter for KC. You don't see many 5th rounders come close to that. Honestly, presently he was a better value than Watson - as one of the best ability is availability as they say. (NO I don't think he is a more skilled WR...don't take it that way)

Jon Runyan Jr - 6th rounder. Has been a guy that last three years has started every single game for us but one. Is he an AP, no. Is he in the best 64 guards in the NFL and would be a starter in the league if not with us - I do believe. I actually think he may end up at center for us. Honestly one could argue we have gotten more out of his pick value wise than Jenkins' pick.

Doubs...if we see value in Watson, you cannot come close to just bypassing Doubs who for a 4th round pick has had immensely more value to our team than Watson so far - yes again Watson is the more skilled or raw talent gifted but does no good if not out there.

 

[longtimefan]

Wait...what? I think you forgot some guys - three that quickly came to mind:


MVS for starters. 5th round receiver who has more yards in the NFL than all but 5 WRs taken in the draft - all ahead of him. He didn't have many WRs that draft go after him but 13 ahead of him he has blown out of the water on production. He's made 57 starts in his career so far and right now is an everyday starter for KC. You don't see many 5th rounders come close to that. Honestly, presently he was a better value than Watson - as one of the best ability is availability as they say. (NO I don't think he is a more skilled WR...don't take it that way)

Jon Runyan Jr - 6th rounder. Has been a guy that last three years has started every single game for us but one. Is he an AP, no. Is he in the best 64 guards in the NFL and would be a starter in the league if not with us - I do believe. I actually think he may end up at center for us. Honestly one could argue we have gotten more out of his pick value wise than Jenkins' pick.

Doubs...if we see value in Watson, you cannot come close to just bypassing Doubs who for a 4th round pick has had immensely more value to our team than Watson so far - yes again Watson is the more skilled or raw talent gifted but does no good if not out there.

Gute also resigned Jones and not let him walk

 

[Schultz]

So, this is what I am hearing.
1. Don't blame Love or give up on him because he has been given the least experienced offense in the league by far. OkAY, then let's blame the guys who constructed the inexperienced offense.
2. Don't call the GM bad. Look at all of the great picks he has made. Okay, so let's blame.................?
3. History. GB was due to fall into mediocrity (or worse) after their sustained run of playoff football year after year for close to 3 decades. The odds just caught up with them.

 

[mradtke66]

So, this is what I am hearing.
1. Don't blame Love or give up on him because he has been given the least experienced offense in the league by far. OkAY, then let's blame the guys who constructed the inexperienced offense.
2. Don't call the GM bad. Look at all of the great picks he has made. Okay, so let's blame.................?

I trap is to assume there is someone or a single thing that lead us here. Few things are that simple. What I would consider a simplified summary still isn't simple.

I'd say we're still paying for Ted's ending drafts. Not that all of his picks were bad, but he made some bad misses (how many CBs did he take and we STILL needed Gute to draft Jaire and Stokes) and we haven't dug out from under them. Or have finally evened up.

There are holes on the roster, but other than LT, we don't have a glaring below-average starter on offense or defense. We don't have a special player on offense, but that's a singular goal to focus on this offseason and we can attempt to address it at any position (WR, TE, RB, h-back) or multiple position.

Yes, we don't know what we have in Love and the current stats aren't good. I remain undecided. I want to see growth this year, understand his deficiencies, and then I want to see more next year addressing those deficiencies.

3. History. GB was due to fall into mediocrity (or worse) after their sustained run of playoff football year after year for close to 3 decades. The odds just caught up with them.

This is probably the most true thing. Frankly, we haven't been bad enough to draft earlier enough to restock the roster. But again, that's still only part of the whole ball of mess.

 

[tynimiller]

So, this is what I am hearing.
1. Don't blame Love or give up on him because he has been given the least experienced offense in the league by far. OkAY, then let's blame the guys who constructed the inexperienced offense.
2. Don't call the GM bad. Look at all of the great picks he has made. Okay, so let's blame.................?
3. History. GB was due to fall into mediocrity (or worse) after their sustained run of playoff football year after year for close to 3 decades. The odds just caught up with them.

I would say the ignorance is many placing whole blame on any of them and ignoring that from several different ways this year had to be a struggle...if for no other reason than swallowing the massive fiscal pill Rodgers and the voided money created. However, add in all the veterans lost just in one year to that and I just think folks are expecting the mountain top or close to it vastly too quick.

 

[milani]

I had posted this earlier in another thread because these were the MOST INEXPERIENCED TEAMS in the NFL in 2023 in games played as an entire team. However It’s important to break out Offense experience here because this is about Jordan Love as it related to our Offense.
2023 youngest teams broken out by OFFENSE
LA Rams
692 games
Houston Texans
715 games
Arizona Cardinals
557 games
Chicago Bears
514 games
Green Bay Packers
308 games
Seattle Seahawks
529 games
New England Patriots
743 games
2008 Green Bay Packers
748 games

I’m not expressing my conclusion, just posting a fact as it relates to other “young” teams. Are there any abnormal ones that stick out to you guys? It’s like Sesame Street, pick which teams’ totals don’t fit with the rest.

Great analogy.

 

[OldSchool101]

Great analogy.

Thank You.
Some other Fans with an ulterior motivation will call simple factual information of being historically young an “excuse” because it doesn’t fit their narrative (pride)
(Not you as you tend not to incorrectly be defensive).
I simply choose to look for abnormalities that pop out in order to find what might be holding us back so we can improve. I’m not wasting my time finding fault in others. It would make me look like
I have nothing to offer and it’s a somewhat uninformed or frustrated look

Good news is we will get better. The chances of all this newness on Offense staying stagnant should be short lived. The newness “excuse” is another way to say we have lots of room to grow. Mark my words our young Offense will grow because it’s just how the NFL works. Don’t sleep on them like some of our fans do

 

[milani]

Thank You.
Some other Fans with an ulterior motivation will call simple factual information of being historically young an “excuse” because it doesn’t fit their narrative (pride)
(Not you as you tend not to incorrectly be defensive).
I simply choose to look for abnormalities that pop out in order to find what might be holding us back so we can improve. I’m not wasting my time finding fault in others. It would make me look like
I have nothing to offer and it’s a somewhat uninformed or frustrated look

Good news is we will get better. The chances of all this newness on Offense staying stagnant is very small. The newness “excuse” is another way to say we have lots of room to grow. Mark my words our young Offense will grow because it’s just how the NFL works. Don’t sleep on them like some of our fans do

One iota you pointed out was that there was more experience and established talent on the 2008 team as compared to the 2023 team. That team went 6-10 with 2 of those wins against the 0-16 Lions. And in that year I among others railed Thompson and McCarthy and pretty much gave Rodgers a pass. My only discrepancy I found with Rodgers at the time was that Favre always seemed to inspire the entire 45 late in games because of his school yard mentality that said " Come on, we can win this. " That particular year Rodgers did not exhibit that trait no matter how hard he performed. And I compare Rodgers coming out on stage in 2007 against Dallas much like Love coming out in 2022 against Philly. They were similar. We were losing. Each got us some points. But the game was pretty much lost already. So will this team win 6 or 7? Maybe not. But let them keep trying. We had a 5 game losing streak last year I believe. So let us keep battling. Lombardi had a 5 game losing streak in 1959 I believe. But they got better.

 

[longtimefan]

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[rmontro]

Considering we were expecting to have a pretty decent run game, that is pretty brutal.

 

[OldSchool101]

The Run woes are largely a result of losing our LT, LG and RB1 for a substantial part of the first 6 games. These are our only 3 players on an offense who have played at Probowl quality level. I could easily argue those were our 3 best Offensive players.
-Elgton Jenkins played 84% of 4 games. We’ve played 6 contests so he’s played roughly 55% of total snaps.
-David Bakhtiari has played 1 full game. He’s played like 17% of total snaps.
-Aaron Jones typically plays about 60% of O snaps. He’s played 39% (2/3) of 3 contests. So he’s played roughly 35% of a normal healthy RB

Missing Bak is a huge deal but it’s the way it goes in the NFL. My guess is we will normalize once Jones is and Jenkins are back together for a game or two. Hopefully that’s means this week. We can’t patchwork a running game long-term it’s just not sustainable.

This Offense is predicated on play action and misdirection. Right now we are no action and running the wrong direction.

 

[AmishMafia]

The biggest issue I see in our offensive performance is the unexpected poor offensive line play. I really wasn't counting on Bahk either. I saw ranking before the season where we were in the top 5 OLs. I think, right now, only Tom is playing beyond expectations. Jenkins is good, but he has played better. What happened to Nijman? He looked like a probable starter. Myer did not improve and is inadequate. Runyan is adequate.

Rhyan, Walker and to a less extent, Newman are young ascending players and you could expect one of them to step forward.

I thought the MLF system was very OL friendly, but it seems to have shifted. Loss of Stenovich is probably the biggest issue.

Anyway, it all starts in the trenches and if we don't get that in gear the running and passing game, and Love's performance, will suffer.

 

[tynimiller]

The biggest issue I see in our offensive performance is the unexpected poor offensive line play. I really wasn't counting on Bahk either. I saw ranking before the season where we were in the top 5 OLs. I think, right now, only Tom is playing beyond expectations. Jenkins is good, but he has played better. What happened to Nijman? He looked like a probable starter. Myer did not improve and is inadequate. Runyan is adequate.

Rhyan, Walker and to a less extent, Newman are young ascending players and you could expect one of them to step forward.

I thought the MLF system was very OL friendly, but it seems to have shifted. Loss of Stenovich is probably the biggest issue.

Anyway, it all starts in the trenches and if we don't get that in gear the running and passing game, and Love's performance, will suffer.

Arguably I'll go on record saying Newman just has never progressed. He came in as a rookie and was much more than most expected, but has barely progressed...Myers sadly a similar story it seems.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The biggest issue I see in our offensive performance is the unexpected poor offensive line play. I really wasn't counting on Bahk either. I saw ranking before the season where we were in the top 5 OLs. I think, right now, only Tom is playing beyond expectations. Jenkins is good, but he has played better. What happened to Nijman? He looked like a probable starter. Myer did not improve and is inadequate. Runyan is adequate.

Rhyan, Walker and to a less extent, Newman are young ascending players and you could expect one of them to step forward.

I thought the MLF system was very OL friendly, but it seems to have shifted. Loss of Stenovich is probably the biggest issue.

Anyway, it all starts in the trenches and if we don't get that in gear the running and passing game, and Love's performance, will suffer.

A times I wonder how much of the dropoff is also the transition from Rodgers (very good at managing the pocket and checking out of plays) to Love. The QB has a rather large impact on how the oline performs and part of the fall off this season could be Love learning something on the field he never got a chance to learn in practice (how to manage against a defense that is allowed to hit him).