The Jordan Love Era Begins

[BrokenArrow]

Gute has set up both MLF and Love to fail by treating the defense as VIP during the draft and the offense like under-seat storage (I hope because he recognized that Barry needed all the help he could get) and now, with a first time starting QB, there aren't any experienced players in the receiver or TE room to help the young guys develop or help Love on the field. Gute has allowed this offense to fall apart over the years and multiple MVP seasons from Rodgers hid the cracks but now, when Love needs help to figure things out, he has none. MLF is a good offensive coach (his choices at DC continue to be horrendous) but no offensive coach is taking this group of players and building an effective offense.

Love is starting his first season, the top two receivers are second years guys (3rd on the depth chart is a rookie), Jones has been healthy for ONE game and so Dillon is the starting RB, and his starting TE is a rookie! What did fans expect from this mess of an offense?

Basically, all the offensive skill positions are guys who have never played together until a month and a half ago. That doesn't mean they're bad players. It means they need time. Frankly, it's been very impressive at times how well they ARE doing, all things considered. Like you indicated, our receivers don't have an experienced QB to elevate them and Love doesn't have a receiver to elevate him either, so they're all just going to have to grow together.

Now, I know Packer fans under 45 years old have been extremely spoiled, but FFS, we haven't had to rebuild for almost 30 years! Patriots are going through the same thing we are. SF went through an extended rebuild period and so did Dallas. Miami has been perpetually rebuilding for decades and looks like they may have finally arrived. Lions? Well, if this week was any indication, don't let their record fool you. They have a way of pi$$ing away fast starts.

Point is, people need to just enjoy the ride for now. It's going to be bumpy. There will be a time for deep concern and perhaps heads to roll if there is no improvement, but that time is not now. I can't even be too upset about Barry right now, as much as I'd like him replaced. The D has actually been pretty decent overall considering our offensive struggles.

 

[milani]

I usually see him with the helmet on, so I can't tell if he's pretty.

He looks stoic.

 

[BrokenArrow]

There appears to be a lack of understanding this offense and 3 years of prep.

I could be wrong, but it appears to me that we have a very inexperienced offense that is going to take some time to grow together.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Basically, all the offensive skill positions are guys who have never played together until a month and a half ago. That doesn't mean they're bad players. It means they need time. Frankly, it's been very impressive at times how well they ARE doing, all things considered. Like you indicated, our receivers don't have an experienced QB to elevate them and Love doesn't have a receiver to elevate him either, so they're all just going to have to grow together.

Now, I know Packer fans under 45 years old have been extremely spoiled, but FFS, we haven't had to rebuild for almost 30 years! Patriots are going through the same thing we are. SF went through an extended rebuild period and so did Dallas. Miami has been perpetually rebuilding for decades and looks like they may have finally arrived. Lions? Well, if this week was any indication, don't let their record fool you. They have a way of pi$$ing away fast starts.

Point is, people need just enjoy the ride for now. It's going to be bumpy. There will be a time for deep concern and perhaps heads to roll if there is no improvement, but that time is not now. I can't even be too upset about Barry right now, as much as I'd like him replaced. The D has actually been pretty decent overall considering our offensive struggles.

I agree with this idea but the way the packers are implementing it means that they aren't getting an idea of whether Love is the guy for the future, do they need to draft a receiver in the first few rounds, what positions on the oline are most in need of help? Love might turn into a good QB but because he has no help, the Packers absolutely cannot pass on drafting one of the premiere QBs in this season's draft if they find themselves in that position. Gute staked his legacy on drafting Love in 2020 and now he's watching that legacy burn because of his lack of attention to the offense.

 

[Magooch]

I say this as someone who had really high hopes for Love and generally likes him quite a bit. No hate at all.

But if we find ourselves picking inside the top 5 and have the chance to get a guy like Williams or Maye, I don’t really know how you make a case to pass on drafting one of those guys and starting fresh (with a new rookie contract) in favor of continuing with Love at this point.

 

[tynimiller]

I say this as someone who had really high hopes for Love and generally likes him quite a bit. No hate at all.

But if we find ourselves picking inside the top 5 and have the chance to get a guy like Williams or Maye, I don’t really know how you make a case to pass on drafting one of those guys and starting fresh (with a new rookie contract) in favor of continuing with Love at this point.

Williams his character flaws are immense IMO. Maye I'm begrudgingly there with you and would 100% get it if Gute pulled the plug for such a pick.

 

[Magooch]

Williams his character flaws are immense IMO. Maye I'm begrudgingly there with you and would 100% get it if Gute pulled the plug for such a pick.

Ultimately for better or worse a lot of it comes down to timing too I think. It’d be a different story if we already had Love locked down for a while but as it stands it’s not just “passively” continuing with Love, we are in a spot where practically speaking we have to actively commit to him (extension) if we wish to continue down that road.

So it’s tough cuz it’s not just Love vs Maye or whoever but extending Love to a vet contract at 24 vs resetting to 4-5 years on a rookie contract. And to be fair Love probably wouldn’t be too expensive at this point but that also doesn’t really speak in his favor in some ways lol

 

[BrokenArrow]

I agree with this idea but the way the packers are implementing it means that they aren't getting an idea of whether Love is the guy for the future, do they need to draft a receiver in the first few rounds, what positions on the oline are most in need of help? Love might turn into a good QB but because he has no help, the Packers absolutely cannot pass on drafting one of the premiere QBs in this season's draft if they find themselves in that position. Gute staked his legacy on drafting Love in 2020 and now he's watching that legacy burn because of his lack of attention to the offense.

Agree on the QB. If we end up with a top 3 pick (50/50 chance IMO) then you might have to draft a QB. If we get a guarantee of either Maye, Penix or McCarthy I think you have to pull the trigger. My preference is turning more and more toward McCarthy but any of those three would be fine by me.

 

[tynimiller]

Ultimately for better or worse a lot of it comes down to timing too I think. It’d be a different story if we already had Love locked down for a while but as it stands it’s not just “passively” continuing with Love, we are in a spot where practically speaking we have to actively commit to him (extension) if we wish to continue down that road.

So it’s tough cuz it’s not just Love vs Maye or whoever but extending Love to a vet contract at 24 vs resetting to 4-5 years on a rookie contract. And to be fair Love probably wouldn’t be too expensive at this point but that also doesn’t really speak in his favor in some ways lol

For sure. You ask me to reach into my crystal ball, let's first assume the jekyll and hyde style continues and he looks awesome half the time and bad the rest...but consistently stays around or beneath 60% completion

He projects across 17 currently to finish with this:

315 for 547 / 57.5% completion / 3,579 yards / 28TDs / 20 INTs

My crystal ball says we still even with say finishing bottom 5 in the league and Love doing the above don't think Gute picks a QB, at least NOT in the first round UNLESS he and his scouts truly believe without question it's a future QB for next decade in GB.

IF it all played out like that, you know an odd thing GB could do and see if Love/Love's agent would consider is doing another one year extension. Even say fully guaranteeing it like this last one...do another $13M guaranteed extension at signing, slide the void money we did this last time the same way but a year deeper. Essentially getting him more than he would in a "we are cutting you situation", and possibly playing himself into a BIG deal should 2024 prove much better.

I just don't know what Gute will do...I think it depends how hot under the collar he is, if he doesn't feel like he's gonna go down if Love fails I don't think he rides him another year, IF Gute thinks everyone is demanding he find a better option I think he will draft a QB and it be his last gamble/ride.

I could stand and make an hour case for either of the options we are likely to face:

OPTION A - Draft a QB Day1, expect Love is done in GB (maybe even move him for next to nothing) and hope you can build around the rookie without a first round pick. To me if this is where we go it has to be Drake Maye IMO....I personally would hate having Caleb Williams my QB than all the days I struggled with Rodgers mentality and approach to life. I put Williams on the same maturity rung as Johnny Manziel or Deshaun Watson....I want no part of it personally. Outside of May I strongly don't think a QB exists worthy of a top 10 pick.

OR

OPTION B - Draft without QB being a forced pick in Day1....trickling into Day2 and Love gets one final year to prove it or done. If we go this route I want us to leave Day2 assuming we have four picks total with two starting caliber OL (any positions), a STUD WR or TE and then the best of a safety or an edge guy.

 

[milani]

For sure. You ask me to reach into my crystal ball, let's first assume the jekyll and hyde style continues and he looks awesome half the time and bad the rest...but consistently stays around or beneath 60% completion

He projects across 17 currently to finish with this:

315 for 547 / 57.5% completion / 3,579 yards / 28TDs / 20 INTs

My crystal ball says we still even with say finishing bottom 5 in the league and Love doing the above don't think Gute picks a QB, at least NOT in the first round UNLESS he and his scouts truly believe without question it's a future QB for next decade in GB.

IF it all played out like that, you know an odd thing GB could do and see if Love/Love's agent would consider is doing another one year extension. Even say fully guaranteeing it like this last one...do another $13M guaranteed extension at signing, slide the void money we did this last time the same way but a year deeper. Essentially getting him more than he would in a "we are cutting you situation", and possibly playing himself into a BIG deal should 2024 prove much better.

I just don't know what Gute will do...I think it depends how hot under the collar he is, if he doesn't feel like he's gonna go down if Love fails I don't think he rides him another year, IF Gute thinks everyone is demanding he find a better option I think he will draft a QB and it be his last gamble/ride.

I could stand and make an hour case for either of the options we are likely to face:

OPTION A - Draft a QB Day1, expect Love is done in GB (maybe even move him for next to nothing) and hope you can build around the rookie without a first round pick. To me if this is where we go it has to be Drake Maye IMO....I personally would hate having Caleb Williams my QB than all the days I struggled with Rodgers mentality and approach to life. I put Williams on the same maturity rung as Johnny Manziel or Deshaun Watson....I want no part of it personally. Outside of May I strongly don't think a QB exists worthy of a top 10 pick.

OR

OPTION B - Draft without QB being a forced pick in Day1....trickling into Day2 and Love gets one final year to prove it or done. If we go this route I want us to leave Day2 assuming we have four picks total with two starting caliber OL (any positions), a STUD WR or TE and then the best of a safety or an edge guy.

I believe Love will be our QB through next season and then Gute and MLF will have a serious conversation. They still believe he can get there if the team gets there.

I say this as someone who had really high hopes for Love and generally likes him quite a bit. No hate at all.

But if we find ourselves picking inside the top 5 and have the chance to get a guy like Williams or Maye, I don’t really know how you make a case to pass on drafting one of those guys and starting fresh (with a new rookie contract) in favor of continuing with Love at this point.

I agree with this idea but the way the packers are implementing it means that they aren't getting an idea of whether Love is the guy for the future, do they need to draft a receiver in the first few rounds, what positions on the oline are most in need of help? Love might turn into a good QB but because he has no help, the Packers absolutely cannot pass on drafting one of the premiere QBs in this season's draft if they find themselves in that position. Gute staked his legacy on drafting Love in 2020 and now he's watching that legacy burn because of his lack of attention to the offense.

I believe Love will be our QB through 2024 barring injury. At that point Gute and MLF will decide which direction to go in the evaluation process. The question will be how good can he get and how good can the team get. Bart Starr hardly played in his first 3 seasons. He was not the starter in 1959 when Lombardi got there. It was during that season that he settled on Starr and pulled Lamar McHan.

 

[Krabs]

Agree on the QB. If we end up with a top 3 pick (50/50 chance IMO) then you might have to draft a QB. If we get a guarantee of either Maye, Penix or McCarthy I think you have to pull the trigger. My preference is turning more and more toward McCarthy but any of those three would be fine by me.

I'm much higher on Penix and Maye. Nix wouldn't be bad. McCarthy is lower on my list. I think he is lower on a lot of experts lists too. I do like his playmaking ability and the effort he gives. He gets jacked up out there on the field.

 

[Krabs]

OPTION A - Draft a QB Day1, expect Love is done in GB (maybe even move him for next to nothing) and hope you can build around the rookie without a first round pick. To me if this is where we go it has to be Drake Maye IMO....I personally would hate having Caleb Williams my QB than all the days I struggled with Rodgers mentality and approach to life. I put Williams on the same maturity rung as Johnny Manziel or Deshaun Watson....I want no part of it personally. Outside of May I strongly don't think a QB exists worthy of a top 10 pick.

You don't think Penix Jr. is worth a 1st round pick? He even made Indiana a winner before transferring to Washington. I would be thrilled to have Penix Jr. or Maye. I'm totally with you on Williams.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm much higher on Penix and Maye. Nix wouldn't be bad. McCarthy is lower on my list. I think he is lower on a lot of experts lists too. I do like his playmaking ability and the effort he gives. He gets jacked up out there on the field.

And that's exactly why I like him ;l

 

[tynimiller]

You don't think Penix Jr. is worth a 1st round pick? He even made Indiana a winner before transferring to Washington. I would be thrilled to have Penix Jr. or Maye. I'm totally with you on Williams.

I said I don't view any but Maye worthy of a Top10. My clear first round graded QBs at this stage (very early) are Maye and Williams with Williams getting a flag of draftability.

Penix Jr, Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy are my next three that I assume will declare with Hartman nipping on their heals if not with them IMO. Now if Ewers from Texas comes out I actually personally believe he has a ceiling higher than any of those four and could potentially be my QB3 but I don't have my 3-10 ironed out atm.

Penix Jr to me has a ceiling of a Teddy Bridgewater post injury. He can sling it but I have zero faith on the move throws or using legs...that's where Bo Nix comes in and has much better physical traits IMO and does better on the move and under pressure from what I've seen so far. Then there is JJ who I have not dug into nearly at all short of just watching games on Saturdays, he is night and day different than the QB I saw last year and look forward to breaking him down.

 

[Krabs]

I said I don't view any but Maye worthy of a Top10. My clear first round graded QBs at this stage (very early) are Maye and Williams with Williams getting a flag of draftability.

Penix Jr, Bo Nix and JJ McCarthy are my next three that I assume will declare with Hartman nipping on their heals if not with them IMO. Now if Ewers from Texas comes out I actually personally believe he has a ceiling higher than any of those four and could potentially be my QB3 but I don't have my 3-10 ironed out atm.

I'm with you on Ewers. He's the QB I'd like to see in Green & Gold.

Penix Jr to me has a ceiling of a Teddy Bridgewater post injury. He can sling it but I have zero faith on the move throws or using legs...that's where Bo Nix comes in and has much better physical traits IMO and does better on the move and under pressure from what I've seen so far. Then there is JJ who I have not dug into nearly at all short of just watching games on Saturdays, he is night and day different than the QB I saw last year and look forward to breaking him down.

I can buy that. I would probably prefer Nix as well.

 

[tynimiller]

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[tynimiller]

Benkert has me anxious about working through the All 22 tape. I suspected and noticed a few massive misques that just simply cannot and should not be held against Love.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I believe Love will be our QB through next season and then Gute and MLF will have a serious conversation. They still believe he can get there if the team gets there.


I believe Love will be our QB through 2024 barring injury. At that point Gute and MLF will decide which direction to go in the evaluation process. The question will be how good can he get and how good can the team get. Bart Starr hardly played in his first 3 seasons. He was not the starter in 1959 when Lombardi got there. It was during that season that he settled on Starr and pulled Lamar McHan.

I have seen nothing to indicate that Gute should be trusted with building an offense. I can see it now, Gute drafts another edge defender with the sixth pick and fans get to wait ANOTHER year to see if Love is any good before making the decision to pay an unknown QB Daniel Jones money and potentially hamstring the team for 6 years.

If the Packers have a chance to draft one of the elite QB prospects this year they would be absolute fools to pass it up. Fans proclaimed all the time Love would benefit from being on the bench behind Rodgers...wouldn't Williams or Maye benefit from a year behind Love and then also cost tens of millions less per season for the following four seasons? Trade up to get whichever one of Williams or Maye isn't drafted first by the Bears...you get a better prospect than Love was and cost control at the QB position for five years. Gute was wrong to draft Love in 2020, the worst business decision you can make is to keep throwing good money after bad. Again, Love could be a really good QB but the front office has set up this team so that nobody will know until Love is 26.

 

[rmontro]

If the Packers have a chance to draft one of the elite QB prospects this year they would be absolute fools to pass it up.

I'm sure they're sold on Love at least through the end of next season. But I do think that if our record is bad enough to have a chance at drafting an elite QB prospect (whatever that might mean), it would be a good rule of thumb to do it. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Basically, all the offensive skill positions are guys who have never played together until a month and a half ago. That doesn't mean they're bad players. It means they need time. Frankly, it's been very impressive at times how well they ARE doing, all things considered. Like you indicated, our receivers don't have an experienced QB to elevate them and Love doesn't have a receiver to elevate him either, so they're all just going to have to grow together.

Now, I know Packer fans under 45 years old have been extremely spoiled, but FFS, we haven't had to rebuild for almost 30 years! Patriots are going through the same thing we are. SF went through an extended rebuild period and so did Dallas. Miami has been perpetually rebuilding for decades and looks like they may have finally arrived. Lions? Well, if this week was any indication, don't let their record fool you. They have a way of pi$$ing away fast starts.

Point is, people need to just enjoy the ride for now. It's going to be bumpy. There will be a time for deep concern and perhaps heads to roll if there is no improvement, but that time is not now. I can't even be too upset about Barry right now, as much as I'd like him replaced. The D has actually been pretty decent overall considering our offensive struggles.

I can't think of any well run organization/business that isn't constantly trying to improve. The whole "just enjoy the rider" is a great way for a team to wallow in mediocrity/the basement for seasons before changes are made. All those extended rebuilds were because the team sat around and watched bad front office personnel collect pay checks. When did the 49ers get good again? When they hired Shanahan and Lynch. Why haven't the Cowboys been any good over the recent past? Because they've been letting Jerry Jones make all the awful choices and not moving on to someone better (Dallas has no choice there because the owner is ridiculous).

What has Gute done that people are okay with thinking he knows how to build an offense? Since 2018, the only offensive players I can point to as good players for where they were taken are Jenkins and Watson. For a GM that has let the offense rot under his watch, I'm not confident that he can suddenly turn it around and build a good offense. Gute made his bed when he drafted Love in 2020, he should have built an offense that would make Love look good and instead he built an offense that provides zero help to his legacy pick at all. IMO, that's not indicative of a good GM.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm sure they're sold on Love at least through the end of next season. But I do think that if our record is bad enough to have a chance at drafting an elite QB prospect (whatever that might mean), it would be a good rule of thumb to do it. I wouldn't hold my breath though.

All i heard after Love's pick in 2020 was they he'd have a chance to develop behind Rodgers. So why can't one of the premier prospects develop behind Love? Also, I too doubt it will happen because Gute will instead draft another edge rusher and everyone will again blame the MLF for not making young players perform like elite vets.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I can't think of any well run organization/business that isn't constantly trying to improve. The whole "just enjoy the rider" is a great way for a team to wallow in mediocrity/the basement for seasons before changes are made.

I thought that was pretty clear that it was we as fans I was talking about. None of us have anything to do with what happens at 1265. Where the hell did I say anything about the team just enjoying the ride?

 

[Schultz]

All i heard after Love's pick in 2020 was they he'd have a chance to develop behind Rodgers. So why can't one of the premier prospects develop behind Love? Also, I too doubt it will happen because Gute will instead draft another edge rusher and everyone will again blame the MLF for not making young players perform like elite vets.

I bet that edge rusher has a very high RAS.

 

[rmontro]

All i heard after Love's pick in 2020 was they he'd have a chance to develop behind Rodgers. So why can't one of the premier prospects develop behind Love?

It's a different situation because Love isn't at the end of a long career and has become to expensive to keep. Of course he could be replaced for different reasons.

 

[PackerDNA]

Benkert has me anxious about working through the All 22 tape. I suspected and noticed a few massive misques that just simply cannot and should not be held against Love.

Very interested in seeing all that Benkert has to say. Things are not always as they seem, especially from the vantage point of watching the game on television.