The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[OldSchool101]

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Just like George, these cold comments have me shrinking back into my crevice

 

[longtimefan]

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Just like George, these cold comments have me shrinking back into my crevice

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[Pokerbrat2000]

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Classic! By the clothes, the song and Georges hair, before Seinfeld!

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[milani]

Classic! By the clothes, the song and Georges hair, before Seinfeld!

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Certainly not due to shrinkage.

 

[Poppa San]

Stats

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[OldSchool101]

Good stuff. Having a great QB is so important. We’ve been spoiled in GB on that half of what’s needed. Once you find a great QB, you just need to field a top 10 Defense

Across 31 seasons of 2 HOF QB’s the Packers had just 10 seasons with Top #10 ranked scoring Defenses (32%). We made the playoffs 100% of those seasons. We advanced to a NFC game 70% of the time

9-7 lost Divisional
9-7 lost Divisional
11-5 Lost NFC game
13-3 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost Super Bowl
12-4 Lost Divisional
13-3 Lost NFC game
11-5 Lost Wildcard
10-6 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost NFC game

Tom Brady never Won a Super Bowl without the help of a top #8 or better Defense.

 

[milani]

Good stuff. Having a great QB is so important. We’ve been spoiled in GB on that half of what’s needed. Once you find a great QB, you just need to field a top 10 Defense

Across 31 seasons of 2 HOF QB’s the Packers had just 10 seasons with Top #10 ranked scoring Defenses (32%). We made the playoffs 100% of those seasons. We advanced to a NFC game 70% of the time

9-7 lost Divisional
9-7 lost Divisional
11-5 Lost NFC game
13-3 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost Super Bowl
12-4 Lost Divisional
13-3 Lost NFC game
11-5 Lost Wildcard
10-6 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost NFC game

Tom Brady never Won a Super Bowl without the help of a top #8 or better Defense.

And 5 of those 10 were in the Holmgren, Favre, Reggie, Wolf era. Appears since that time the well became dry on the defensive side.

 

[OldSchool101]

And 5 of those 10 were in the Holmgren, Favre, Reggie, Wolf era. Appears since that time the well became dry on the defensive side.

Good point.

I know QB is a huge part of our success equation. We need Jordan to step up big time. It’s quite possible we’ve already got that Defense but they need to display that on the field (not just on paper).

I’d be prepared to move on at QB just like we were with Rodgers though. If Jordan is deemed “speculative” after 2023, I’d roll that bonus Jets pick into the 2025 draft we can still likely net a bonus Day 2 in 2024 and still have our pair of draft Aces (Day1) in 2025. There’s some really good QB’s and we’d have top 5 overall draft equity riding on board already. I don’t like mortgaging our future like I see so many teams do. Reward ourselves with a later Day 2 area bonus selection now and hold onto that Wild Card Day 1 value.

If Jordan looks legit after this season or even 2024? either scenario we’re going to be stocked with draft picks to help him across 2 drafts.

 

[tynimiller]

And 5 of those 10 were in the Holmgren, Favre, Reggie, Wolf era. Appears since that time the well became dry on the defensive side.

Yup, the most surefire way to guarantee your team is going to be deep in playoffs has always been to have an elite defense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Good stuff. Having a great QB is so important. We’ve been spoiled in GB on that half of what’s needed. Once you find a great QB, you just need to field a top 10 Defense

Across 31 seasons of 2 HOF QB’s the Packers had just 10 seasons with Top #10 ranked scoring Defenses (32%). We made the playoffs 100% of those seasons. We advanced to a NFC game 70% of the time

9-7 lost Divisional
9-7 lost Divisional
11-5 Lost NFC game
13-3 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost Super Bowl
12-4 Lost Divisional
13-3 Lost NFC game
11-5 Lost Wildcard
10-6 Won Super Bowl
13-3 Lost NFC game

Tom Brady never Won a Super Bowl without the help of a top #8 or better Defense.

I'll add that Brady's record in the playoffs when his defense gives up 30+ points is 2-4. That's right, teams he's played on have only given up 30+ points in the playoffs SIX TIMES.

Fans complain about Rodgers but he's 10-3 in the playoffs when his defense allows less than 37 points! Rodgers is 0-7 when his defense allows 37+ and he's 0-3 when the playoff games go to overtime; oh, and in those OT games, he's never touched the football. I guess he'll never be the linebacker coach that Brady is.

Elite QBs are the most important part of winning in the NFL but having the best QB ever doesn't mean anything when the defense is just plain awful.

 

[tynimiller]

I'll add that Brady's record in the playoffs when his defense gives up 30+ points is 2-4. That's right, teams he's played on have only given up 30+ points in the playoffs SIX TIMES.

Fans complain about Rodgers but he's 10-3 in the playoffs when his defense allows less than 37 points! Rodgers is 0-7 when his defense allows 37+ and he's 0-3 when the playoff games go to overtime; oh, and in those OT games, he's never touched the football. I guess he'll never be the linebacker coach that Brady is.

Elite QBs are the most important part of winning in the NFL but having the best QB ever doesn't mean anything when the defense is just plain awful.

People will never fully understand just how elite performing NE defenses were for Brady and the team...even the ones that were middle of the road in regular season have turned it on in playoffs and played elite level the years he won SBs usually.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

People will never fully understand just how elite performing NE defenses were for Brady and the team...even the ones that were middle of the road in regular season have turned it on in playoffs and played elite level the years he won SBs usually.

Agree and I honestly think that both TT and now Gute were trying to duplicate that strategy by going heavy on Defense in many drafts. Unfortunately, they ran into 3 problems. Finding a DC that could put all the pieces together successfully. Failing on way too many high draft picks on defense. Lastly, loosing site of the offense and keeping it well stocked with receiving talent.

In the playoffs, when did the Packers offense seem to sputter the most? When they were facing an elite defense. Even on the occasions that the Packers defense played really well, seems that the Packers offense just couldn't get it done (San Fran, Seattle). In the last 10 years, the Packers are 6-7 in the playoffs. In those 6 wins, they scored 26, 35, 38, 34, 28, 32 points. In the 7 losses, they gave up 23, 28, 26, 44, 37, 31, 13 points. Where am I going with those numbers? LOL...not really sure, but it takes a pretty decent offense and a very reliable defense to win games and that becomes even clearer in the playoffs.

 

[tynimiller]

Agree and I honestly think that both TT and now Gute were trying to duplicate that strategy by going heavy on Defense in many drafts. Unfortunately, they ran into 3 problems. Finding a DC that could put all the pieces together successfully. Failing on way too many high draft picks on defense. Lastly, loosing site of the offense and keeping it well stocked with receiving talent.

In the playoffs, when did the Packers offense seem to sputter the most? When they were facing an elite defense. Even on the occasions that the Packers defense played really well, seems that the Packers offense just couldn't get it done (San Fran, Seattle). In the last 10 years, the Packers are 6-7 in the playoffs. In those 6 wins, they scored 26, 35, 38, 34, 28, 32 points. In the 7 losses, they gave up 23, 28, 26, 44, 37, 31, 13 points. Where am I going with those numbers? LOL...not really sure, but it takes a pretty decent offense and a very reliable defense to win games and that becomes even clearer in the playoffs.

My only push back is Gute has definitely not missed on defensive picks. Savage is arguably his only "failure" in his first two picks each year.

 

[AmishMafia]

My only push back is Gute has definitely not missed on defensive picks. Savage is arguably his only "failure" in his first two picks each year.

Josh Jackson says hi!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My only push back is Gute has definitely not missed on defensive picks. Savage is arguably his only "failure" in his first two picks each year.

Agree and I would add that Gute has had tremendous success in the free agent market when it comes to the defense.

That said, I would turn to #2 and #3 points. Gute has had a really good record as a GM, but between him and MLF picking 2 bad DC's and the offensive woes that I have discussed, means no Super Bowls.

 

[tynimiller]

Josh Jackson says hi!

Okay, there is a massive difference between a pick being a bust after it vs saying it was a mistake of a pick. There were next to no one that thought that pick wasn't a steal at the time - yes hunt hard enough you'll find some, but he to many was a concensus day 1 pick talent.

Yes you have to include him now....and now that I say that I guess that could also be said about Savage so I'll concede both should have been listed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Josh Jackson says hi!

Almost forgot about that clown. He's been with several teams since GB (Giants, Chiefs, Cardinals, Steelers, Cardinals again) but appears to have not played a down since he was a Packer in 2020.

He is a good poster child for "Don't over value someone that excelled in # of interceptions in just 1 college season". Same could be said about a lot of positions and stats (sacks, TD's, catches, etc.)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Okay, there is a massive difference between a pick being a bust after it vs saying it was a mistake of a pick. There were next to no one that thought that pick wasn't a steal at the time - yes hunt hard enough you'll find some, but he to many was a concensus day 1 pick talent.

Yes you have to include him now....and now that I say that I guess that could also be said about Savage so I'll concede both should have been listed.

I would actually say that Jackson was the bigger bust, but that depends on what Savage does or doesn't do this season. While I agree with you on using hindsight in regards to Jackson, I still contend that those 8 interceptions that he had, were the only reason he was valued so high.

We also haven't closed the books on Eric Stokes just yet, he could go the way of Savage or come back and be like Jaire.

 

[AmishMafia]

Okay, there is a massive difference between a pick being a bust after it vs saying it was a mistake of a pick. There were next to no one that thought that pick wasn't a steal at the time - yes hunt hard enough you'll find some, but he to many was a concensus day 1 pick talent.

Yes you have to include him now....and now that I say that I guess that could also be said about Savage so I'll concede both should have been listed.

It was one of the strangest careers. Preseason as a rookie he was the highest rated DB in the NFL. He was playing fantastic. At one point I wanted to use our first pick on him. So I thought he was a huge steal. What happened to him after that rookie preseason is still a mystery.

Savage has time yet. He has played well at times but needs to be more consistent. Hoping he still pulls it together and makes an impact.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Veering off the Love topic some more, but I have always questioned drafting CB's from the Big10. I know there have been a few good ones, but there has also been some real busts. The reason I point this out, that besides OSU, a team that seems to be WR U, the Big10 notoriously doesn't produce all that many stellar WR's. Thus, the Big10 CB's may look better than they actually are.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'll add that Brady's record in the playoffs when his defense gives up 30+ points is 2-4. That's right, teams he's played on have only given up 30+ points in the playoffs SIX TIMES.

Fans complain about Rodgers but he's 10-3 in the playoffs when his defense allows less than 37 points! Rodgers is 0-7 when his defense allows 37+ and he's 0-3 when the playoff games go to overtime; oh, and in those OT games, he's never touched the football. I guess he'll never be the linebacker coach that Brady is.

Elite QBs are the most important part of winning in the NFL but having the best QB ever doesn't mean anything when the defense is just plain awful.

We had that “awful” D often too often over the last 16 seasons. We need to start the Jordan era off like we did with Rodgers. While Aaron had a more experienced Offense, he also started with several good Defenses in his era.
Something to note, but both Farvey and Rodgers started a little slow in their careers and needed a couple years to crank it up. They both had some struggles getting to a SB those first couple of seasons and those were WITH really good Defenses.
Favre started 9-7, 9-7, 9-7, 12-4
Rodgers started 6-10,11-5,10-6,15-1

Neither just cranked other teams into the dirt. It was a late season postseason surge that put us in the Championship contention in 2010 that started with the Week 16 Giants Win and culminated in 6 straight Wins for a Lombardi

 

[Heyjoe4]

My only push back is Gute has definitely not missed on defensive picks. Savage is arguably his only "failure" in his first two picks each year.

He's been very good drafting D players, Savage excluded. And I agree, elite D's win in the post season. There's debate on that. KC is an offensive juggernaut. But all those winning Pat teams - elite Ds, and Tom Brady.

 

[milani]

He's been very good drafting D players, Savage excluded. And I agree, elite D's win in the post season. There's debate on that. KC is an offensive juggernaut. But all those winning Pat teams - elite Ds, and Tom Brady.

And Belichick.

 

[OldSchool101]

He's been very good drafting D players, Savage excluded. And I agree, elite D's win in the post season. There's debate on that. KC is an offensive juggernaut. But all those winning Pat teams - elite Ds, and Tom Brady.

I spent like an hour going into rankings to debunk the old myth that “D wins Championships” tossed around phrase.

Up until a few years ago when I did that research, the average SB Winning team had just over a #8 ranked scoring Offense. The average SB Defense had just under a #7 ranked Defense

I’ve since coined that phrase as
“well-rounded teams Win Championships”. Although it isn’t a myth that Defense is critical to ultimate success. But yeah Historically it needs to lean Defense by a nose hair.

I’d love to see us get to that top 7 Defense once again, it’s an area I think would take a lot of pressure off Jordan to perform HOF level.