The Jordan Love Era Begins

[longtimefan]

If there's one thing I hope Love picked up from three years watching Rodgers (and presumably sharing thoughts and conversations with him in the QB room), it's some of his knack for reading defenses.




We've had QBs from other teams with little to no experience come out and play quite well against us over the years, so my expectations for Love aren't too low.

I personally thinking reading def comes with playing experience. I could be wrong

 

[OldSchool101]

I personally thinking reading def comes with playing experience. I could be wrong

Mostly live game reps. Maybe some film mixed in. I Think a QB learns from film, applies it in game, then gets slightly better with each similar scenario. Some learn faster though. Love was pretty raw in college sbd did well when the team around him was good. If that holds true he’ll need a year to synchronize but we should see him grow as the season unfolds.

I suspect his pass TD number is in that
18-28 TD’s is my guess. INT closer to 2:1

 

[longtimefan]

Mostly live game reps. Maybe some film mixed in. I Think a QB learns from film, applies it in game, then gets slightly better with each similar scenario. Some learn faster though. Love was pretty raw in college sbd did well when the team around him was good. If that holds true he’ll need a year to synchronize but we should see him grow as the season unfolds.

I suspect his pass TD number is in that
18-28 TD’s is my guess. INT closer to 2:1

Isn’t this for every “real” job? all the book learning, all class room work

for my job I been doing it over 30 years and to this day I will still encounter issues I never seen

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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Does Kenny Clark read this forum?

As much as I can.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now see I disagree there. I think having 4 NFL Training Camps, 3 preseasons and a few sprinkled live games + 38 College games +1 NFL start is very comparable to Herbert playing 43 contests at Oregon + 1 Covid preseason.
Imo. Love has had plenty of preparation for the NFL and I would say he’s more prepared for a NFL start than Herbert was 4 seasons ago coming in as a rookie.
Now what Jordans performance level will be is another matter and Herbert did have more experience at both WR and TE in 2020 than Love has in 2023. I think it’s a slight weapon favor in Herbert’s corner, but from a purely QB point of view, Love wins that prepared argument. Had we had this conversation in 2020 that’s another story.

Something else to consider on those ugly 9 losses that got their Coach canned. The Chargers ranked #9 in Offense and lost week 2 in OT and lost 6 of the next 7 games by 1 score. Then Herbert went on a 4 Win Run to finish up. It was their #23 ranked Defense that was more problematic. Herbert with a similar level (or slightly less) level of preparation performed outstanding with a good group of WR/TE/RB and Won ORoY #1

Really for myself I’m not quite as concerned with Love as I am questions about our inexperience at Receiver and TE weapons combined with Love. I’m nearly convinced if you put Love on a strong Offense (with sufficient prep) he’d perform league average early in.

I get all that and believe that Love has probably improved his techniques, knows the playbook, has worked with teammates, etc. but classroom and practices are not live games. He still will have a lot to learn, playing real, live football.

We've had QBs from other teams with little to no experience come out and play quite well against us over the years, so my expectations for Love aren't too low.

We have, but how many of those QB's go on to repeat that performance afterwards? Love might have a slight advantage for the first few games of the season, but after that, opposing DC's will be much better prepared for him, as will the defenses they coach. For reference, I don't expect that what we saw Love do in Philly, is a perfect indicator of what we will see from him in 2023.

 

[AmishMafia]

I personally thinking reading def comes with playing experience. I could be wrong

You have to understand the defense before you can read it. You have to know what to look for as well. Then there are the little tells. Hard count to see if anyone twitches and what direction. Send a guy in motion to see how the defense, especially the secondary, adjusts. That's in addition to knowing a particular DCs tendencies given personnel and/or game situation. There is a lot to learn and much is classroom. Playing experience is very important, but after a thorough understanding.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You have to understand the defense before you can read it. You have to know what to look for as well. Then there are the little tells. Hard count to see if anyone twitches and what direction. Send a guy in motion to see how the defense, especially the secondary, adjusts. That's in addition to knowing a particular DCs tendencies given personnel and/or game situation. There is a lot to learn and much is classroom. Playing experience is very important, but after a thorough understanding.

I think what you are referring to is "learned instincts, gained from experience". For some QB's it comes naturally (Rodgers), for others, they just never grasp it. Rodgers is able to walk up to the LOS, look over the defense and quickly grasp what they are probably doing and audible out of the original play, if need be. That is what I am waiting to see when it comes to Jordan Love. We may see some signs of him having it or not having it, early on, but I don't expect much consistency with it, until a season or two is under his belt.

I honestly think Rodgers plays at a cognitive level that is so much higher than most of his teammates, sometimes it worked against him and the offense. That elite type of play calling on the fly, requires everyone to be on the same page and too many times we saw that not to be the case.

 

[Voyageur]

You have to understand the defense before you can read it. You have to know what to look for as well. Then there are the little tells. Hard count to see if anyone twitches and what direction. Send a guy in motion to see how the defense, especially the secondary, adjusts. That's in addition to knowing a particular DCs tendencies given personnel and/or game situation. There is a lot to learn and much is classroom. Playing experience is very important, but after a thorough understanding.

Then there's the situation where every player on offense has to understand their job, and how it changes, with each tell that's exposing something about the defense. Routes change, blocking assignments could easily change, timing changes, so many new things to consider and it all has to be done within one or two seconds.

These are the challenges that you face "after" you've learned what that defense is, and how to read it. You then need to be able to understand who the players you have on the field are, and their abilities, and tendencies. All of it, part of the QB's processing of a play before the ball is snapped. You don't get there without playing in games. You learn the concepts on the sideline, and develop the skills, on the field.

 

[OldSchool101]

Then there's the situation where every player on offense has to understand their job, and how it changes, with each tell that's exposing something about the defense. Routes change, blocking assignments could easily change, timing changes, so many new things to consider and it all has to be done within one or two seconds.

These are the challenges that you face "after" you've learned what that defense is, and how to read it. You then need to be able to understand who the players you have on the field are, and their abilities, and tendencies. All of it, part of the QB's processing of a play before the ball is snapped. You don't get there without playing in games. You learn the concepts on the sideline, and develop the skills, on the field.

The good news is when he was asked, Aaron Rodgers spoke highly of Jordan. He labeled him a “Master of the Offense”. We all know That’s a guy that doesn’t hand out high grades unless he sees it first hand. If he’s saying Jordan has mastered the Offense, his next step is to apply it in live games, make his version of mistakes and clean up his deficiencies from week to week.

Camp helps a little. Preseason helps a little more, but it’s all a warm up exercise to apply it to the best players in the league. I’ve personally seen just enough to say he’s ready to play. Where our QB ceiling is anyone’s guess and he’s obviously still learning the game. But he’s a whole plateau above 2020-2021 Jordan imo. Personally I think much of that is Tom Clements that guy is a QB whisperer

 

[AmishMafia]

I think what you are referring to is "learned instincts, gained from experience". For some QB's it comes naturally (Rodgers), for others, they just never grasp it. . . .

I honestly think Rodgers plays at a cognitive level that is so much higher than most of his teammates, sometimes it worked against him and the offense.

I dont think it came naturally for Rodgers. I think he worked very hard at it. He is very smart to begin with, so maybe it was easier for him than most, but he was a devout student of the game. He used his time waiting behind Favre to understand the fine points of playing QB at the NFL level.

 

[OldSchool101]

I honestly think Rodgers plays at a cognitive level that is so much higher than most of his teammates, sometimes it worked against him and the offense. That elite type of play calling on the fly, requires everyone to be on the same page and too many times we saw that not to be the case.

This is so true. Rodgers is an extremely cerebral QB and his IQ is just naturally elevated. That aspect of his game coupled with great physical conditioning overcame what I believe we’re some relational deficiencies to players who didn’t meet his standards. Regardless if you are a staunch supporter or not, I believe Aaron could’ve had higher lows year to year, that’s a compliment though. As Rodgers understanding of the game became more encompassing I think other players frustrated him and he graded out poor in that 1 area. I think he lacked in communication with the FO and eventually saw them as a threat instead of getting the most out of them and using partnering skills. They taught us that Pride is a good thing and in school and yet I’ve found that it’s the biggest lie passed down generationally that keeps us from our very best.

I’m not beating up on Aaron as we each have weaknesses and myself especially. However if we’re going to judge a player we need to look full spectrum at all their positives and negatives. Relational shortcomings ended Rodgers career early and imo, it’s as much his fault as our GM or anyone else. It takes 2 to tango off the dance floor.

Thus far Jordan looks like near polar opposite from an inspiring grade and players all around him are coming out of the woodwork to show they are ready to do battle with him as our General. I’d argue that moral and conviction is as important or more than 1 players ability. Yes Rodger wax one of the best (is one of the) to ever play, but this isn’t a 1 man sport. This is still a team sport if I recall and team mentality and I’ll take 1% of 100 peoples increased effort over 100% of my own. Btw we have evidence all over on this theology and Brett Favre playing that game after his Fathers death wasn’t an accident. Buster Douglas over Tyson wasn’t an accident. J’aire Alexander is cocky but he speaks his play into existence and I love how he permeated that confidence onto his QB. It doesn’t matter if he’s #1 or not, that in the media is totally missing the point by those that have no faith

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I dont think it came naturally for Rodgers. I think he worked very hard at it. He is very smart to begin with, so maybe it was easier for him than most, but he was a devout student of the game. He used his time waiting behind Favre to understand the fine points of playing QB at the NFL level.

Right. When I said that it "came naturally" with Aaron, I didn't mean to imply that he didn't work at it and was just born with that talent. What he did do was devote himself to his craft and worked very hard to refine it. Each season seemed to be an improvement for him and he quite seamlessly became a HOF QB. So the use of "it came naturally", was only a compliment to his ability to consistently improve upon his game, where others fail.

We don't see this from every athlete. I get the feeling that many get to what they feel is their peak and coast from there. The big paydays that they can eventually get serve as motivation, but once they do get the money, they seem to go 1 of 3 ways. Get better, stay the same or coast to mediocrity.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The good news is when he was asked, Aaron Rodgers spoke highly of Jordan. He labeled him a “Master of the Offense”. We all know That’s a guy that doesn’t hand out high grades unless he sees it first hand. If he’s saying Jordan has mastered the Offense, his next step is to apply it in live games, make his version of mistakes and clean up his deficiencies from week to week.

Camp helps a little. Preseason helps a little more, but it’s all a warm up exercise to apply it to the best players in the league. I’ve personally seen just enough to say he’s ready to play. Where our QB ceiling is anyone’s guess and he’s obviously still learning the game. But he’s a whole plateau above 2020-2021 Jordan imo. Personally I think much of that is Tom Clements that guy is a QB whisperer

Rodgers works best with guys that he has established good chemistry with. While I know everyone, including myself, wants to beat up on Sammy Watkins, it wasn't all on Sammy. I really think Rodgers was frustrated with what he perceived as a veteran player, that should be able to pick-up a new offense quickly and run with it. Sammy didn't and he and A-Rod too often looked like they were running different plays out there. When I tune in the Jets this season, I will be closely watching Rodgers and his receivers, wanting to see just how quickly (or not), they are all in sync.

 

[OldSchool101]

Rodgers works best with guys that he has established good chemistry with. While I know everyone, including myself, wants to beat up on Sammy Watkins, it wasn't all on Sammy. I really think Rodgers was frustrated with what he perceived as a veteran player, that should be able to pick-up a new offense quickly and run with it. Sammy didn't and he and A-Rod too often looked like they were running different plays out there. When I tune in the Jets this season, I will be closely watching Rodgers and his receivers, wanting to see just how quickly (or not), they are all in sync.

That’s true. That said they both should’ve been dancing together earlier and not just expecting to step in game 1 synchronized. I realize some programs and some effort is voluntary. However every year brings new challenges and preparation with new players is critical to success. No player is too big and while some might say “would you do it if it was not required?” I would and also I don’t make $50mil per season, but if I did my expectations should go past minimum required work hours only. I’d also reference Pat Mahomes and MVS, they did something right.

 

[thequick12]

And this was the original post. And again idgaf about anything else other then what Love can do

Or what's Love got to do with it

Wow that was a bold prediction by me but until he proves me wrong Im sticking with it. I think he's gonna be good

 

[OldSchool101]

Wow that was a bold prediction by me but until he proves me wrong Im sticking with it. I think he's gonna be good

I know we’ve been spoiled by HOF play for 30 years. We’ve also had our expectations a little damaged by the Brett Hundley and Deshone Kizer experiments. Probably leaving us more skeptical there, which I get it im witness to it just like the rest.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That’s true. That said they both should’ve been dancing together earlier and not just expecting to step in game 1 synchronized. I realize some programs and some effort is voluntary. However every year brings new challenges and preparation with new players is critical to success. No player is too big and while some might say “would you do it if it was not required?” I would and also I don’t make $50mil per season, but if I did my expectations should go past minimum required work hours only. I’d also reference Pat Mahomes and MVS, they did something right.

Agreed. I still dislike sitting vets the entire preseason. I know, I know...you risk injury, but you run that risk in practices and real games too. Nothing establishes chemistry like playing live football, preseason or regular. Rodgers may have not needed the work, but it was painfully obvious that too often his receivers needed the work...with #12.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed. I still dislike sitting vets the entire preseason. I know, I know...you risk injury, but you run that risk in practices and real games too. Nothing establishes chemistry like playing live football, preseason or regular. Rodgers may have not needed the work, but it was painfully obvious that too often his receivers needed the work...with #12.

Good point. By my Polish math had Rodgers broken his thumb in OTA’s or private workouts he would’ve been 100% good to go for Regular season
Am I wrong? Tell me I’m wrong

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good point. By my Polish math had Rodgers broken his thumb in OTA’s or private workouts he would’ve been 100% good to go for Regular season
Am I wrong? Tell me I’m wrong

We may never know, but some will say it cost the Packers a SB that year!

 

[rmontro]

I personally thinking reading def comes with playing experience. I could be wrong

I'm sure it does. But you have to have the concepts in your brain first, and I'm sure the last three years have helped him with that. He's had all the prep he needs, now he just needs some seasoning.

We have, but how many of those QB's go on to repeat that performance afterwards? Love might have a slight advantage for the first few games of the season, but after that, opposing DC's will be much better prepared for him, as will the defenses they coach. For reference, I don't expect that what we saw Love do in Philly, is a perfect indicator of what we will see from him in 2023.

It would help to be able to play against our defense, but I guess that's not an option.
One thing I liked about Love in Philly, was he seemed to be self assured and confident in his throws, which Rodgers did not (in that game). Yeah, they weren't facing the same defense, but still. Hey, I've got to find some bone to throw him.

 

[gopkrs]

Call me out of date but I'm going to go with the arm being the most important thing. And protection.

 

[mradtke66]

Nothing establishes chemistry like playing live football, preseason or regular.

I'm not so sure that's true anymore.

In general, each defense is playing pretty vanilla schemes in the pre-season. They don't want to give anything anyway, even if it's just tendencies for down and distance.

Training camp is going to give more chances to see and react to Man disguised as zone, Zone disguised as man, press, off, double, zone-blitz. You need those looks to practice against those looks. The other guys aren't going to play the entire second series in press-man because you asked them to. But you could structure a whole session (or two. or three) on just beating press coverage. Harp on what your quarterback's eyes are looking for. Agree upon the scramble rules, option route reads, that kind of stuff.

I just see the pre-season for getting used to game speed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not so sure that's true anymore.

In general, each defense is playing pretty vanilla schemes in the pre-season. They don't want to give anything anyway, even if it's just tendencies for down and distance.

Training camp is going to give more chances to see and react to Man disguised as zone, Zone disguised as man, press, off, double, zone-blitz. You need those looks to practice against those looks. The other guys aren't going to play the entire second series in press-man because you asked them to. But you could structure a whole session (or two. or three) on just beating press coverage. Harp on what your quarterback's eyes are looking for. Agree upon the scramble rules, option route reads, that kind of stuff.

I just see the pre-season for getting used to game speed.

I guess I would disagree on your take of preseason VS practices/training camp. If it was only about game speed, that can be duplicated in practice. Also, everyone on the roster, has played in real games before (college or Pro), so to say that it is only for players to get used to "game speed" is underestimating the importance of preseason football. Why do you think teams have decided that bringing other teams into camp to scrimmage is valuable?

Putting your offense or defense on the field against another teams defense or offense creates the unknown for your units. They have no clue what the other side is going to do. They are facing players that they don't see everyday in practice. So yes, running your first teams during preseason is about game speed, but it is also about timing, reading the opponent and becoming a cohesive unit. Not to mention substituting in a back-up in with the starters, to see how they do.

 

[gopkrs]

Whereas it is obviously important to know, if you can, what the defense is setting up to do. Imho it is more important for the offense to dictate to the defense. That is, instead of reacting to the defense; the offense should be doing their thing and make the defense react to them. It is probably more important to go ahead and do what you want to do rather than try and guess what the defense is planning. The defense is really who should be reacting. If the QB sees something that looks like it will work; change the play, (maybe for just one player) but that should not be the norm. I don't think it should be a game of our QB outsmarting their defense. There are some situations where you do want to change a run to a pass or vice versa. But that should be obvious or don't change the play.

 

[Mondio]

I think it's built in to every offense across the league. Everything is so specialized and it's about match ups. A defense can shift to take anything away no matter who you are but it usually leaves something else open. Sometimes you still have a match up you think you can win with and run it anyway. Other times you shift to what they've left open and run with that. It's the norm in the league these days I think.