The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Pokerbrat2000]

Whereas it is obviously important to know, if you can, what the defense is setting up to do. Imho it is more important for the offense to dictate to the defense. That is, instead of reacting to the defense; the offense should be doing their thing and make the defense react to them. It is probably more important to go ahead and do what you want to do rather than try and guess what the defense is planning. The defense is really who should be reacting. If the QB sees something that looks like it will work; change the play, (maybe for just one player) but that should not be the norm. I don't think it should be a game of our QB outsmarting their defense. There are some situations where you do want to change a run to a pass or vice versa. But that should be obvious or don't change the play.

Ummm...yes? I guess I never said what you are inferring or maybe that wasn't directed at me or the current discussion?

I fully agree that a QB shouldn't be audibling on every play, but having him out there during preseason, to get a feel for reading other teams formations and reacting is important. A veteran like Rodgers can do that in his sleep, but unless the other 10 guys are sleeping with him, that doesn't do much for them. In the case of Love, I think he will get a lot of preseason snaps, to learn all the nuances of running his offense as close to real game conditions as he is going to get.

 

[milani]

Mostly live game reps. Maybe some film mixed in. I Think a QB learns from film, applies it in game, then gets slightly better with each similar scenario. Some learn faster though. Love was pretty raw in college sbd did well when the team around him was good. If that holds true he’ll need a year to synchronize but we should see him grow as the season unfolds.

I suspect his pass TD number is in that
18-28 TD’s is my guess. INT closer to 2:1

Something tells me that Love will be more of a Favre than a Rodgers in that he will not overthink nor overanalyze. He may become a gunslinger. What that means is that every game could be an adventure. And sometimes a scary one.

 

[gopkrs]

I think it's built in to every offense across the league. Everything is so specialized and it's about match ups. A defense can shift to take anything away no matter who you are but it usually leaves something else open. Sometimes you still have a match up you think you can win with and run it anyway. Other times you shift to what they've left open and run with that. It's the norm in the league these days I think.

Maybe the pendulum has swung too far in that direction. Take the matchup when you see it but don't overthink the whole thing. Football is more of a team sort than BBall where matchups are more obvious. Defenses do a very good job of disguising what they are doing so that you end up guessing too much. Imho

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe the pendulum has swung too far in that direction. Take the matchup when you see it but don't overthink the whole thing. Football is more of a team sort than BBall where matchups are more obvious. Defenses do a very good job of disguising what they are doing so that you end up guessing too much. Imho

I believe that one of the things that separates the top QB's from the average ones, are their ability to read the defense and react accordingly. It might not be a full on audible, but might be doing something as simple as changing a blocking assignment. Handcuffing your QB to only the called play isn't something I would want to see. That said, Rodgers was a master of all of the above, while also mixing up the snap count and whatever else he could do to try and confuse the defense, as well as to get them to "show him their cards." Love has a lot of work to do before he will master that, if at all. Sure, they can and do practice that by throwing different looks at him all summer, but IMO, nothing beats that real life game experience, when a mistake could get you sacked, intercepted or no yards.

One thing that frustrated me about Rodgers and the offense, rarely did they go quick snap, unless he saw an opportunity for a penalty for too many men on the field or he was out of play clock. Yes, he was reading the defense, but he was also allowing the defense to do the same and prepare.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess I would disagree on your take of preseason VS practices/training camp. If it was only about game speed, that can be duplicated in practice. Also, everyone on the roster, has played in real games before (college or Pro), so to say that it is only for players to get used to "game speed" is underestimating the importance of preseason football. Why do you think teams have decided that bringing other teams into camp to scrimmage is valuable?

Putting your offense or defense on the field against another teams defense or offense creates the unknown for your units. They have no clue what the other side is going to do. They are facing players that they don't see everyday in practice. So yes, running your first teams during preseason is about game speed, but it is also about timing, reading the opponent and becoming a cohesive unit. Not to mention substituting in a back-up in with the starters, to see how they do.

Plus fringe players Win and Lose roster spots based on what they do against live competition in camp practices and preseason. It might not be as important for known, veteran starters. However I’d argue a preseason and practices are ultra important the closer you get to cutdowns.

Imo. That in particular was one thing that hurt Jordan some in 2020. He did not get benefit of any live practices or even a Preseason. He was a College Junior and desperately needed those reps. On top of that Preseason was reduced to 3 contests and he missed some time there with an early season injury in 2021. Then 2 months later essentially gets thrown to the K.C. Wolves @KC with less than equivalent of 1 Scrimmage of play in the NFL. Good Luck!

As far as Preseason. While the scheme might differ and player quality drops some, those players are very intentional about showing up and impressing their Coaching staff. It’s not like they don’t try and compete at all, so while there are slivers of truth in @mradtke66 arguments, I don’t fully agree with the global aspect of his assertion of lack of importance of live competition. I think live games of any kind are important and increasingly so for Rookies or lesser experienced players.

 

[Kramer]

I will be honest and say that I do not really expect all that much from Love tbh. Hope he surprises me of course, but I am just no enthused with his skill set.

Prove me wrong Jordan!


And again, can someone help me: How do you like someone's post? I don't seem to have that option, thanks.

 

[Mondio]

We assume it was Rodgers making it go slow. I will not be surprised at all to find out it was a philosophy of the offense to slow it all down, especially last year with all the youth

 

[OldSchool101]

Something tells me that Love will be more of a Favre than a Rodgers in that he will not overthink nor overanalyze. He may become a gunslinger. What that means is that every game could be an adventure. And sometimes a scary one.

He’s very Favre ish. Ive made that exact comparison before. In 2019 Love forced a lot of throws. He had justifiable reason though and that’s why his draft stock didn’t diminish much at all. Had he kept the same Offense and repeated his stellar Sophomore season during that Junior campaign? Imo he’s an easy top 10 selection.

We chose him at #26 with a lousy college Junior year. What does that tell us about where they had him originally pegged? 49 points per game average in 2018 as just a Sophomore? That’ll get a Scouts attention real fast. Permission to use layman’s terms but.. He tore it up.

 

[AmishMafia]

I will be honest and say that I do not really expect all that much from Love tbh. Hope he surprises me of course, but I am just no enthused with his skill set.

Prove me wrong Jordan!


And again, can someone help me: How do you like someone's post? I don't seem to have that option, thanks.

Maybe you have to have a few more posts under your belt before you can react. Should be a thumbs up icon below the post you hit.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I will be honest and say that I do not really expect all that much from Love tbh. Hope he surprises me of course, but I am just no enthused with his skill set.

Prove me wrong Jordan!


And again, can someone help me: How do you like someone's post? I don't seem to have that option, thanks.

I think the rules say you need to make 100 posts before the "like" icon comes up.

 

[OldSchool101]

We assume it was Rodgers making it go slow. I will not be surprised at all to find out it was a philosophy of the offense to slow it all down, especially last year with all the youth

We are about to find out the answer to that soon.
The 2023 O roster is far more inexperienced now than in 2022. If that theory holds true we should go backwards on Offense substantially.

Personally I think Rodgers thumb mixed with Sammy and Amari wasting reps was more to blame. Plus just a lower point in overall talent level. Lazard and Tonyan led their position group and neither broke 1000 or 500 yards

 

[mradtke66]

Why do you think teams have decided that bringing other teams into camp to scrimmage is valuable?

That's still a practice-like situation. 30 minutes of goal line period. 30 minutes move the ball. 30 minutes of half-line for run fits.

The gap with preseason games is you could easily go an entire game with 2 snaps (pick your preferred rate) that doesn't focus on the biggest gap of knowledge or player ability.

For example, a team playing against the Packers might want to know how their new WR plays against press man. The Packers, who now run a quarter-centric scheme, might not call a single snap of ANY man coverage, let alone press-man.

 

[Voyageur]

It takes time to adjust when the season starts.Preseason essentially is there to "test theories" about players, not refine the team on the field for games. You work towards that at practice, and hope they take what you've taught to the field when it's crunch time.

In preseason, an offense faces another team's offense that is usually experimenting with some ideas they have. Usually they don't even have their full complement of top players out there. They're also playing at a cut back speed, to avoid injuries. Only the younger players, trying to really make a name for themselves, are hitting hard, and playing at a top level, based on their personal skills.

Coaches, critiquing games, are looking for how players react to the people across from them, and execute their part of plays individually, and then, as a team.

The Packers may actually be ahead of a lot of teams at the start, I'd suspect, because they'll probably be giving Love a lot of field time in preparation. But, let's really take a look at where we stand after 6 games. If we've won 3, they've done an admirable job in preparing him.

Now, I have no idea who they play for those six games, but I don't think it matters. Either they bring enough to the table to win a few games, or the season is a write off. We'd be better off with 2 or 3 wins than 7, because the pick would be a lot better. But, I'm still looking to getting to 7, and calling it a successful year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Interesting we keep getting articles popping on questions in the forum. Here’s a derivative from the above topic from today.

Which Packers will benefit most from padded training camp practices?

Three rookies and one newcomer who will benefit from the Packers starting padded practices at training camp.

packerswire.usatoday.com

 

[OldSchool101]

It takes time to adjust when the season starts.Preseason essentially is there to "test theories" about players, not refine the team on the field for games. You work towards that at practice, and hope they take what you've taught to the field when it's crunch time.

In preseason, an offense faces another team's offense that is usually experimenting with some ideas they have. Usually they don't even have their full complement of top players out there. They're also playing at a cut back speed, to avoid injuries. Only the younger players, trying to really make a name for themselves, are hitting hard, and playing at a top level, based on their personal skills.

Coaches, critiquing games, are looking for how players react to the people across from them, and execute their part of plays individually, and then, as a team.

The Packers may actually be ahead of a lot of teams at the start, I'd suspect, because they'll probably be giving Love a lot of field time in preparation. But, let's really take a look at where we stand after 6 games. If we've won 3, they've done an admirable job in preparing him.

Now, I have no idea who they play for those six games, but I don't think it matters. Either they bring enough to the table to win a few games, or the season is a write off. We'd be better off with 2 or 3 wins than 7, because the pick would be a lot better. But, I'm still looking to getting to 7, and calling it a successful year.

Good stuff.


1-4 Wins would be very disappointing imo. I don’t want to be picking top 5 because it means we have lots of problems.

5-8 Wins is about what I’d consider “on track” and would not shock me or worry me as long as 5,6 Wins included a bunch of hard fought but closer losses (1 score losses)

Anything in that 9-10 Wins area would be a really successful season for a 1st year QB. So much so I’d be totally ok with a worse draft order. I’d expect some aggressive moving on the draft board to lock our most needed players + maybe a good FA acquisition.

11+ Wins (11-6;12-5) would be totally spectacular regardless of our finish. It puts us squarely in the Division leader area or 5th seed battle. That would be an area we should go full throttle in FA and Draft to “Win Now”, including pushing our chips in with player trades or spending a future draft selection for a Deebo type move. It’s also an area of Jordan looked great I’d lock him down on a medium-long term extension.

I suspect 7 wins area +-1
I can see some ups and downs with Jordan and a newer Receiving/TE core, but I think it’s gels as the season progresses. Our D should keep us in the bulk of games, especially if Gary looks like himself.
10th ranked D
#21 ranked O

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

1-4 Wins would be very disappointing imo. I don’t want to be picking top 5 because it means we have lots of problems.

Not if we lose the first 14 and then all the pieces come together and the Packers offense and defense blow everyone out in weeks 15-18.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In preseason, an offense faces another team's offense that is usually experimenting with some ideas they have.

That would be fun to watch!

 

[Voyageur]

That would be fun to watch!

It's why I watch every preseason game for teams that will be playing the Packers. Looking for things they may or may not use, when they play each other. It kind of gives me a head's up on them early on. Then I like to go through their games every week, to see how they're developing on both sides of the ball. I don't get as deeply involved as the Packers staff, but I try to have an inkling of what we're going to face.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I will be honest and say that I do not really expect all that much from Love tbh. Hope he surprises me of course, but I am just no enthused with his skill set.

Prove me wrong Jordan!


And again, can someone help me: How do you like someone's post? I don't seem to have that option, thanks.

Bottom right corner of your screen, you will see "Like" "Quote" "Reply". click on "Like"

If you are viewing this on a phone, might have to change the size of the image.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's why I watch every preseason game for teams that will be playing the Packers. Looking for things they may or may not use, when they play each other. It kind of gives me a head's up on them early on. Then I like to go through their games every week, to see how they're developing on both sides of the ball. I don't get as deeply involved as the Packers staff, but I try to have an inkling of what we're going to face.

I meant THIS (in bold) would be fun to watch. 2 footballs, simultaneous snaps, first to score gets the TD?

In preseason, an offense faces another team's offense that is usually experimenting with some ideas they have.

 

[OldSchool101]

We don’t let anyone get away with nothin’ in here.

Now that I think about it. I’d like to see a 2 Defenses matchup. Just do a jump ball start at the 50 yard line or drop it from an helicopter like Gronk. Then try not to call any of the personal fouls or spearing or fighting and make sure Cox and Walker start.
Or do the Offenses thing but they trade the ball every other play until someone scores Just having fun

 

[Voyageur]

I meant THIS (in bold) would be fun to watch. 2 footballs, simultaneous snaps, first to score gets the TD?

Make 'em play using hockey sticks?

 

[OldSchool101]

Make 'em play using hockey sticks?

That’d be brutal. We’d have to move Van Ness to Offense though I hear he’s pretty good.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Here is what I see so far from Love.

Hard worker
Smart
Looks like he wants it
Great work ethic
All the physical tools at his disposal
??? Natural leadership
??? Real lasting natural meaningful confidence
Over all: yet to be determined

 

[OldSchool101]

Here is what I see so far from Love.

Hard worker
Smart
Looks like he wants it
Great work ethic
All the physical tools at his disposal
??? Natural leadership
??? Real lasting natural meaningful confidence
Over all: yet to be determined

Good stuff.
I’d offer adding “natural competitive spirit”
In the sense that he plays pretty good under pressure once he’s acclimated to his surroundings. He displayed lots of that in college and even when he had a poor team in 2019 he tried to carry his inadequate surroundings because it’s built in him, but he was too inexperienced to overcome too many obstacles. I believe our Scouts noticed that trait and once I read that about him it becomes noticeable. He’s got a little bit of X factor there and you can’t coach it. It’s either part of you or not.
Some call it “rising to the occasion” Tom Brady or Terry Bradshaw or Bart Starr or Joe Montana and thus far, Pat Mahomes would be the ultimate examples/goals of this. They have a gear called “Overdrive” when pressure is rising. I saw it in when the Chiefs got blown out in the Super Bowl, Mahomey was 20 yards behind LOS covered up.. but still throwing absolute Lasers.
Conversely, Some people play great in general, but once the pressure rises they kinda fold. Tony Romo and Kirk Cousins come to mind as the antithesis of rising to occasion. I have a work associate that golfed in tournaments with Romo and he said he was the same way in Golf, when they were poised to win, he’d choke. We’ve witnessed this in every position group and every sport whereas they are absolutely Great players, not who you want in a pressure cooker. Many more examples I could provide but you get the point.

It’s a really important aspect of an athletes personality profile that you have to look for as a scout. Which player may have not won an award but 100% has the “X factor”? Who’s the guy you saw in your opinion who os every bit a legit potential Bust, but is legit capable of a serious Boom? Who’s the guy that floats at a 3rd Rounder in comparison to his upper echelon peers, but Top 10 in X factor. Where is the draft expenditure livable on a swing n miss at QB? That’s the guy you grab with a #26 type selection. That’s Jordan