Studs n duds Miami

[Sanguine camper]

Unfortunately injuries are part of the game, there's no way for anyone to prevent them.--'

While Injuries are part of the game, the Packers can't keep key players healthy. Just as soon as Nixon provides a huge special teams advantage, down he goes. Its a recurring problem, that is why it has nothing to do with bad luck. Did Hill or Waddle go out of the game? The Packers always seems to lose key players while the oppossing team rarely suffers a key injury. The Packers have a systemic problem with injuries. Until they wake up to that fact and make changes to diminish their epidemic, they won't go very far in the playoffs. I think they have issues with strength and conditioning because it shows up when they get stoned in short yardage situations. The Packers continue to be a finese team and get physically beaten which also contributes towards their injury epidemic
Gute could also do a better job of adding players with a history of staying healthy. Ignoring the injury epidemic and chalking it all up to bad luck is a recipe for failure.

 

[milani]

I still don't know how to feel about our defense yesterday. The interceptions were nice, and 2 were great plays by Rasul coming off his route and Campbell coming all the way across. Big time plays in big time moments. Reed's FF was a good play too.

Good plays, but a lot of it was Miami just giving us opportunities too. That INT to Alexander was a pretty bad pass I thought. The others, well, I said it all game long. Their offense is just toss the ball up to open fields and let speedy guys run thru them and to the ball. And we just kept letting them run thru it. Did we just finally start communicating, reading, reacting on defense well? or just get kind of lucky he didn't throw it to the correct open spot on the field? I don't know.

What I do know is that without the TO's, we forced 1 punt all day? and even though we made some positive plays on defense, we seemed to be nowhere to be found on many 3rd and longs, again. I think it was a pretty equal mix of opportune defensive plays and Miami just giving gifts and mistakes. I suppose that's the case in any game, but a good team given all those gifts buries that team and if they didn't make them, I'm not sure that game was close and our playoff hopes are back near zero today.

Miami is talented but very young. Their coach has to rein them in like Andy Reid did when he first came to KC. Fins got out of a good run game. Hit a number of passing strikes. Tua has to slow it down once in a while and go through progressions. Just because you hit 2 or 3 easy ones in a row does not mean the next one is in your lap.

 

[tynimiller]

Unfortunately injuries are part of the game, there's no way for anyone to prevent them.



While Alexander has given up some big completions he has performed pretty well overall, allowing only a completion percentage of 55.7% and a passer rating of 66.7 this season.



Tonyan has been the only tight end who has primarily been used as a route runner this season (317 routes run, 8 snaps pass blocking, 152 run blocking - 66.5% routes run per snaps). All other TEs have been used as blockers on the majority of their snaps.

Lewis 97-64-211-26.1%
Deguara 91-13-98-45.0%
Davis 42-12-88-29.6%

Those numbers don't include yesterday's game at Miami yet.



As mentioned repeatedly total yards allowed is a terrible metric to evaluate a defense as it largely depends on the number of attempts. With the Packers having faced the least amount of pass attempts in the entire league taking a look at some other numbers is a better approach to evaluate their pass defense. They only rank 14th in passer rating and 27th in yards per attempt allowed. Their pass defense isn't as good as the total number of yards allowed might indicate.

I’ve been thinking about the TE position….honestly the way Tonyan has been very underwhelming part of me wonders if we resign him to a cheap one more year deal or even a low multi year….but some might be able to argue IF Rodgers is back, retaining Lewis and drafting a slippery (Dalton Kincaid type) or savvy (Mayer type) offensive weapon at TE could be a better play than keeping Tonyan and not resigning Lewis.

Tonyan to me has showcased he is an excellent teammate, above average type guy but on I think maxes out as a teams joint TE1 or truly just a TE2.

This is a position set for massive overhaul potentially with Lewis, Tonyan and Davis all not signed next year…and part me thinks Tonyan could be the odd man out if Lewis wants back and due to fiscal savings with Davis as insurance or buffer you hope is your TE3 or TE4 type.

 

[swhitset]

posted by Sanguine Camper: While Injuries are part of the game, the Packers can't keep key players healthy. Just as soon as Nixon provides a huge special teams advantage, down he goes. Its a recurring problem, that is why it has nothing to do with bad luck. Did Hill or Waddle go out of the game? The Packers always seems to lose key players while the oppossing team rarely suffers a key injury. The Packers have a systemic problem with injuries. Until they wake up to that fact and make changes to diminish their epidemic, they won't go very far in the playoffs. I think they have issues with strength and conditioning because it shows up when they get stoned in short yardage situations. The Packers continue to be a finese team and get physically beaten which also contributes towards their injury epidemic
Gute could also do a better job of adding players with a history of staying healthy. Ignoring the injury epidemic and chalking it all up to bad luck is a recipe for failure.


This is one of those posts that sounds like it makes sense, but is based on no empirical evidence. I would be very surprised to find out that the Packers’ strength and conditioning program was significantly different than those of other teams.

 

[MadCat]

I still don't know how to feel about our defense yesterday. The interceptions were nice, and 2 were great plays by Rasul coming off his route and Campbell coming all the way across. Big time plays in big time moments. Reed's FF was a good play too.

Good plays, but a lot of it was Miami just giving us opportunities too. That INT to Alexander was a pretty bad pass I thought. The others, well, I said it all game long. Their offense is just toss the ball up to open fields and let speedy guys run thru them and to the ball. And we just kept letting them run thru it. Did we just finally start communicating, reading, reacting on defense well? or just get kind of lucky he didn't throw it to the correct open spot on the field? I don't know.

What I do know is that without the TO's, we forced 1 punt all day? and even though we made some positive plays on defense, we seemed to be nowhere to be found on many 3rd and longs, again. I think it was a pretty equal mix of opportune defensive plays and Miami just giving gifts and mistakes. I suppose that's the case in any game, but a good team given all those gifts buries that team and if they didn't make them, I'm not sure that game was close and our playoff hopes are back near zero today.

I agree and feel the same way. If we make it to the playoffs, playing it safe and/or hoping for or expecting opposing QBs to make unforced bad throws is not exactly a sound defensive strategy. They definitely tightened things up in the second half, but it would sure be nice to see them play lights out for most of, if not all of, a game. Playing from behind all the time doesn’t do a mediocre offense any favors.

 

[longtimefan]

Well….. bye. Dope. No reason for people in here to attack anyone for their opinion, then have the balls to think they’re a victim of the same. Drama starting dope. Mods should clean up these **** starters.

And posters should use the report tab if there is an issue

You threw out 1st jab calling his opinion dumb

 

[longtimefan]

posted by Sanguine Camper: While Injuries are part of the game, the Packers can't keep key players healthy. Just as soon as Nixon provides a huge special teams advantage, down he goes. Its a recurring problem, that is why it has nothing to do with bad luck. Did Hill or Waddle go out of the game? The Packers always seems to lose key players while the oppossing team rarely suffers a key injury. The Packers have a systemic problem with injuries. Until they wake up to that fact and make changes to diminish their epidemic, they won't go very far in the playoffs. I think they have issues with strength and conditioning because it shows up when they get stoned in short yardage situations. The Packers continue to be a finese team and get physically beaten which also contributes towards their injury epidemic
Gute could also do a better job of adding players with a history of staying healthy. Ignoring the injury epidemic and chalking it all up to bad luck is a recipe for failure.


This is one of those posts that sounds like it makes sense, but is based on no empirical evidence. I would be very surprised to find out that the Packers’ strength and conditioning program was significantly different than those of other teams.

I believe they have had diff s/c coaches through out the years

 

[swhitset]

I believe they have had diff s/c coaches through out the years

undoubtedly.

 

[Jayzee1981]

And posters should use the report tab if there is an issue

You threw out 1st jab calling his opinion dumb

Wrong. Read back further.

 

[longtimefan]

Wrong. Read back further.

Lackluster?
lacking in vitality, force, or conviction; uninspired or uninspiring.
"no excuses were made for the team's lackluster performance"


To me lackluster isn’t a jab but saying dumb is

 

[Mondio]

Lackluster?
lacking in vitality, force, or conviction; uninspired or uninspiring.
"no excuses were made for the team's lackluster performance"


To me lackluster isn’t a jab but saying dumb is

well that's just silly

 

[Jayzee1981]

Lackluster?
lacking in vitality, force, or conviction; uninspired or uninspiring.
"no excuses were made for the team's lackluster performance"


To me lackluster isn’t a jab but saying dumb is

Further than that. It’s a moot point at this point and rehashing it is pointless.

 

[MadCat]

Further than that. It’s a moot point at this point and rehashing it is pointless.

You do make a good point(s).

 

[JKramer64]

Stud to Mason Crosby for breaking the record for most consecutive games as a Packer. Sure, he's just a kicker, but he's never hesitated to throw his shoulder into a kickoff returner. He has made a great comeback this year and it shows the importance of the entire FG team being in sync. From the snapper to the holder to the blockers. He doesn't have the range that he once did and his kickoffs leave alot to be desired, but the coverage team is much better. Congratulations #2!

 

[OldSchool101]

I still don't know how to feel about our defense yesterday. The interceptions were nice, and 2 were great plays by Rasul coming off his route and Campbell coming all the way across. Big time plays in big time moments. Reed's FF was a good play too.

Good plays, but a lot of it was Miami just giving us opportunities too. That INT to Alexander was a pretty bad pass I thought. The others, well, I said it all game long. Their offense is just toss the ball up to open fields and let speedy guys run thru them and to the ball. And we just kept letting them run thru it. Did we just finally start communicating, reading, reacting on defense well? or just get kind of lucky he didn't throw it to the correct open spot on the field? I don't know.

What I do know is that without the TO's, we forced 1 punt all day? and even though we made some positive plays on defense, we seemed to be nowhere to be found on many 3rd and longs, again. I think it was a pretty equal mix of opportune defensive plays and Miami just giving gifts and mistakes. I suppose that's the case in any game, but a good team given all those gifts buries that team and if they didn't make them, I'm not sure that game was close and our playoff hopes are back near zero today.

I agree. Had we held them to 10 points (not given up that 82 yard pass play) we’d grade out far better. Miami had just 45 Offensive plays and playing good that’s about
225-250 yards of total Offense
Miami put up 376 yards of Offense on 45 total Offensive plays. It wasn’t being desperate yards with 4th quarter comeback,
4 down territory, long miracle type heaves.

It’s like we’re still waiting for that complete game by our Defense. I will credit our Defense with this part though. When you play zone against those faster, dynamic WR you likely allow a few more big plays, but you also put yourself in position to steal a pass or two during the contest. We had 4 guys around Hill at one juncture. It makes you bleed a little on some plays but opens up some more turnover opportunities.

Offense grade C
Defense grade B..B-

 

[longtimefan]

You then told him to stop crying

Well….. bye. Dope. No reason for people in here to attack anyone for their opinion, then have the balls to think they’re a victim of the same. Drama starting dope. Mods should clean up these **** starters.

still waiting for the report of how he pissed you off

 

[Mondio]

That's the thing that frustrates me the most about this defense. They obviously CAN be pretty good. Really good in fact. But it's only for about half the downs maybe and the others they're equally is bad running around looking like they wondering what is going on and who's supposed to make the play, instead of making the play.

 

[OldSchool101]

Stud to Mason Crosby for breaking the record for most consecutive games as a Packer. Sure, he's just a kicker, but he's never hesitated to throw his shoulder into a kickoff returner. He has made a great comeback this year and it shows the importance of the entire FG team being in sync. From the snapper to the holder to the blockers. He doesn't have the range that he once did and his kickoffs leave alot to be desired, but the coverage team is much better. Congratulations #2!

He’s very quietly having a good year. His 87% FGM is 4th best in his 16 season career. In 2022, He’s ranked Top 12 (Kickers with at least 20 FGA)

PS. Any slightly shorter FGA average distance in yards is largely offset by adverse weather conditions. I’ll submit a perfect 4/4 FGM and 4/4 XPM as recent evidence of kicking in moderate to good conditions @ Miami. As we debated at length earlier, GB is easily one of the top
5-6 toughest environments to Kick, Chicago Soldier being another. That’s 10-11 contests at Windier or colder environments.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It’s alarming how Tonyan has fallen off. Either that, or the offensive play calling doesn’t need him anymore. Seems our TEs are primarily used for blocking our RBs and WR.

I don't think his play has really fallen off, more than I think 2020 was a bit of a fluke. He had 11 TD's that year, more than double the 5 he has had during the rest of his 5 year career.

He has more targets (60) this season, than any previous season, including 2020 (59).

While his knee may have set him back, I think we are pretty much seeing what Robert Tonyan is to an offense. Average to below average TE that can block and catch a pass here and there. He is also a great cautionary tale as to why you don't overpay a guy after one skewed season of work.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd like to say JA was a dud today, sure he had INT, but whiffed on a tackle, leading to a 84yd TD.

I agree. The interception wasn't anything special either, Tua threw the ball right to JA, he just happened to be there.

I will repeat what I said weeks ago, JA looks off this year. Something just isn't right with the guy. He avoids contact, he misses tackles and his coverage skills have not been elite. He has looked tentative and lazy in the process. Him missing the tackle on Waddle should have never happened.

Not sure if its his shoulder that he is worried about or the big contract went straight to his head and he thinks he can be an elite CB, without doing the work. Barry and the DB coach should have lit a fire under his backside months ago.

 

[JKramer64]

Jerry Gray reportedly cussed out the secondary at halftime. About time somebody did.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Viking game will be an interesting one for JA. He complained after the last game with the Queens, that he should have been placed one on one against Jefferson. If that happens and he gets torched, what then? The Packer defense is going to get a real test on Sunday, a team that can both run and pass the ball and has a veteran QB.

 

[Cornelius Weems]

Jerry Gray reportedly cussed out the secondary at halftime. About time somebody did.

I'm glad he did, because they were getting torched to the tune of about 30yds a pop in the first half.

 

[PackerDNA]

The Viking game will be an interesting one for JA. He complained after the last game with the Queens, that he should have been placed one on one against Jefferson. If that happens and he gets torched, what then? The Packer defense is going to get a real test on Sunday, a team that can both run and pass the ball and has a veteran QB.

I would put and keep Ja on Jefferson all day. Hopefully he plays up to his ability and limits him while possibly coming up with a big play like an interception. Jefferson will make a play here and there he's that good, but Alexander playing fired up and at his best covering him is our best chance of keeping Jefferson from destroying us.

 

[Pugger]

They are. Especially today with the oline flux again. I don’t know numbers wise what their protection vs routes numbers would be, but I have no doubt they’re in a protection first role in the offense more so than in the past.

I really hope this position is a high priority for Gute this offseason. Most efficient offenses today have competent TEs.