Studs & Duds - Los Angeles

[tynimiller]

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This play has been overanalyzed by far too many. Watching the All22 makes it even more impressive for Williams (the DB in coverage)...and only made possible by the underthrow by Love - which was made with one of our own essentially setting in Love's lap with the center of the pocket pushed massively on the play. Love back foot lobbed this ball and had it been just another yard or two Wicks isn't trying to high point this ball but catch it over the shoulder and likely is a touchdown....

Williams however was able to make up MASSIVE ground and when he jumps in the mere milliseconds before the ball arrives he pushes Wick's left wrist/hand completely off of alignment...vastly too late for Wicks to adjust and even try a proper one handed (right hand) catch.

Wick's has had a lot of drops this year - personally if I'm grading this play specifically I might still credit it as a drop but I don't know anyone in his body positioning and that late losing a hand makes that catch...sometimes the defender just makes a play.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, we are bracing for Milton hoping the worst of it goes north of us.

Today was the first game we got to see in its entirety.

Studs: Love, Kraft, Jacobs, secondary

Duds: Run D, Pass Rush, Wicks drops and self inflicted penalties

Stay safe Pugger. Are you in Tampa or nearby?

I was surprised yesterday at the lack of a pass rush, given the injuries to the Rams' OL. And Gary seems invisible. I understand that playing Hurts and Richardson required contain, but I expected to to see a pass rush similar to what we saw in the Titans' game. I did see a lot more of Wooden and Brooks, a good thing, and Clark played well. LVN allows the OT to continuously push him around and behind the QB.

I think the drops will get corrected. Then again I thought the penalty situation would be much better by now, and it's really not.

OK friend please stay safe.

 

[Heyjoe4]

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This play has been overanalyzed by far too many. Watching the All22 makes it even more impressive for Williams (the DB in coverage)...and only made possible by the underthrow by Love - which was made with one of our own essentially setting in Love's lap with the center of the pocket pushed massively on the play. Love back foot lobbed this ball and had it been just another yard or two Wicks isn't trying to high point this ball but catch it over the shoulder and likely is a touchdown....

Williams however was able to make up MASSIVE ground and when he jumps in the mere milliseconds before the ball arrives he pushes Wick's left wrist/hand completely off of alignment...vastly too late for Wicks to adjust and even try a proper one handed (right hand) catch.

Wick's has had a lot of drops this year - personally if I'm grading this play specifically I might still credit it as a drop but I don't know anyone in his body positioning and that late losing a hand makes that catch...sometimes the defender just makes a play.

I think the biggest cause for this incompletion was Love's throw. It was a good 2 or 3 yards short. Wicks had plenty of separation from the DB. You nicely described what happened on that play. It sure looked like a TD if the pass is thrown a bit further.

 

[AmishMafia]

That's a blast from the past. I really liked the Adams pick (no, I didn't think he would be as great as he's become, I just liked him out of college). He dropped a lot of passes his first two seasons, and he spent way too much time arguing with officials. I'm glad they had the patience to wait for year 3. Your subtle point on the calls for him to be cut is spot on.

I'd be much more concerned if the WRs weren't getting open, but they are. I think both Wicks and Reed had passes bounce off their hands because they were looking upfield. Those mistakes can and will be corrected. I don't like the drops but it's not a huge concern IMO.

I dont know if Wicks will make it, but I think it is likely. He has a high ceiling and he has the possibility of being at the Adams level with a more likely a very good WR . It is way too soon to write him off.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Ahhhh yes the days of some posters at that the time telling me how Adams was on the bubble and should be cut because of his hands..... Good times

I mean let's be honest for his first couple hands I was referring to him at times as Ronnie Garvin

 

[Magooch]

As best as I can find... Davante was credited with 12 drops in 2015 (which as I recall was worse than the year prior). He was ranked 118 out of 119 eligible receivers by PFF at that time, and it worked out to a drop percentage of roughly 13%.

Now of course "drops" are somewhat subjective and it depends on who is doing the grading/evaluating. I don't have a PFF subscription so don't know how their data has it, but interestingly Pro Football Reference does not have Wicks being credited with a drop yesterday (and it seems like a number of other sites are in agreement). That gives him four (4) on the season so far, though to be fair you could probably make a case for some more (IIRC, he had three passes hit him in the hands and go uncatched vs Philly, but only credited with one drop, for instance).

In any case by those same measures that puts him at a 2024 drop rate of about 14%. Take that for whatever it's worth...

 

[Magooch]

Good summary of the "drop" issue with the WRs, Wicks and Reed in particular.

I'd be more concerned if they weren't getting open, but they are. As you say, Wicks is terrific at creating separation, and Reed is good at it too. I don't know how often this happens, but a number of drops I've seen are from the classic mistake of looking upfield before the ball is secured. That is good because it means they're open, bad because it's resulting in too many drops. This is very fixable.

He said as much himself just last week:

“Just like everybody else, I’ve had some drops, I’ve had some good catches. Try to critique myself on the bad plays, and seeing what was the reason for them. The drops are just taking my eyes off the ball before I finish the catch.”

 

[Cornelius Weems]

I think the biggest cause for this incompletion was Love's throw. It was a good 2 or 3 yards short. Wicks had plenty of separation from the DB. You nicely described what happened on that play. It sure looked like a TD if the pass is thrown a bit further.

This is not a good take, are you serious in saying that the pass that he had to jump up for, (not to the side) but a pass that was thrown to a point that he had to jump up for (still incomplete), was 2-3 yards short? I think you were thinking it may have been overthrown, and just mistyped. I think it would have been a very good catch, but I'm not extremely disappointed that he didn't. My biggest gripe by far is with the defense. The defense looked mostly pedestrian (until late) against a makeshift O-line.

 

[mradtke66]

This is not a good take, are you serious in saying that the pass that he had to jump up for, (not to the side) but a pass that was thrown to a point that he had to jump up for (still incomplete), was 2-3 yards short? I think you were thinking it may have been overthrown, and just mistyped. I think it would have been a very good catch, but I'm not extremely disappointed that he didn't. My biggest gripe by far is with the defense. The defense looked mostly pedestrian (until late) against a makeshift O-line.

No, I agree with the poster. It was a poorly thrown ball--Wicks had to stop. Now Love did have pressure which likely caused it, but it was an under throw.

 

[mradtke66]

As best as I can find... Davante was credited with 12 drops in 2015 (which as I recall was worse than the year prior). He was ranked 118 out of 119 eligible receivers by PFF at that time, and it worked out to a drop percentage of roughly 13%.

People seem to have a very goofy memory of Adams. His rookie year, he was, appropriately number 3 behind Jordy and Cobb. He didn't get a ton of targets and had a mediocre catch rate, though I can't find his drops right now. Nothing wrong with this season.

2015, he was thrust into the limelight a year early due to Nelson's ACL and then he himself had an injury in week 3 (sprained ankle?) and it clearly got in his head.

 

[OldSchool101]

People seem to have a very goofy memory of Adams. His rookie year, he was, appropriately number 3 behind Jordy and Cobb. He didn't get a ton of targets and had a mediocre catch rate, though I can't find his drops right now. Nothing wrong with this season.

2015, he was thrust into the limelight a year early due to Nelson's ACL and then he himself had an injury in week 3 (sprained ankle?) and it clearly got in his head.

I couldn’t find drops for Adams past 2017, but did come across this just for information.

Adams
2014 57.6% completion (Rookie)
2015 53.2% comp
2016 62.1% comp

Wicks
2023 67.2% comp (Rookie)
39/58; 3 Drops; 5.2% Drop rate

2024 34.5% comp
10/29; 4 Drops; 13.8% drop rate

Here’s some comparable Drop Rates for “young” WR this 2024 season just to get a feel
• Johnny Wilson: 16.1%
• Javon Baker: 10.6%
• Devontez Walker: 8.5%
*Dontayvion Wicks 8.0% (career)
• Troy Franklin: 7.3%
• Keon Coleman: 7.2%
• Marvin Harrison Jr: 6.9%
• Ladd McConkey: 6.3%
• Xavier Worthy: 5.4%
• Malik Nabers: 4.9%
• Xavier Legette: 4.8%
• Rome Odunze: 4.8%

 

[tynimiller]

I couldn’t find drops but did come across this just for information.

Adams
2014 57.6% completion (Rookie)
2015 53.2% comp
2016 62.1% comp

2018 or so was when most sites started tracking drops or crediting guys and tracking them.

 

[Pugger]

Stay safe Pugger. Are you in Tampa or nearby?

I was surprised yesterday at the lack of a pass rush, given the injuries to the Rams' OL. And Gary seems invisible. I understand that playing Hurts and Richardson required contain, but I expected to to see a pass rush similar to what we saw in the Titans' game. I did see a lot more of Wooden and Brooks, a good thing, and Clark played well. LVN allows the OT to continuously push him around and behind the QB.

I think the drops will get corrected. Then again I thought the penalty situation would be much better by now, and it's really not.

OK friend please stay safe.

I am

Stay safe Pugger. Are you in Tampa or nearby?

I was surprised yesterday at the lack of a pass rush, given the injuries to the Rams' OL. And Gary seems invisible. I understand that playing Hurts and Richardson required contain, but I expected to to see a pass rush similar to what we saw in the Titans' game. I did see a lot more of Wooden and Brooks, a good thing, and Clark played well. LVN allows the OT to continuously push him around and behind the QB.

I think the drops will get corrected. Then again I thought the penalty situation would be much better by now, and it's really not.

OK friend please stay safe.

Hubby and I are 105 miles south of Tampa. We hope the brunt of this storm stays away from us. Our home is sturdy but storm surge could be an issue. *Fingers crossed*

 

[gopkrs]

Do we ever do stunts on the pass rushes? If we do; I guess they are not effective. We had 3 sacks but for the most part they had time to throw. Rashan with seemingly only a bull rush and now it looks like VanNess only rushes fast to the outside of the tackle. When the tackle knows that; he is pretty easy to pick up. Does the defensive line coach teach these guys different techniques? We cannot give the QB so much free space. Especially w/o Jaire. Need to get home on the blitz. Make it look like 2 guys are rushing like Minihaha so they don't know who is coming in. It seems like when Q is coming; you can see him set up right at the line of scrimmage. Send a corner or safety sometimes. Especially if they see they aren't getting picked up by a lineman. If that; back up and cover on the snap.

 

[milani]

Duds: Spectrum making sure I missed the 1st 14 minutes of the game. Love thinking he was Brett Favre on that Pick 6.

Studs: McKinney Cooper and Enagbare

Finally, someone gives Enagbare soom credit for the forced fumble. That play was huge. It turned the game. Without it I am not certain we win.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Stud: Winning a game despite the fact you really didn't play that well.

Dud: Letting a team like the Rams hang around the whole game. They're bad.

Stars: McKinney & Kraft.

Emerging rookie stars: Cooper & Williams.

Disappointment: Romeo Doubs. Pull your head out of your ****** and get back to the player you were.

Go Pack Go.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Duds: Everyone who posted Studs and didn't include Narveson!

Studs: Narveson!


Come on Packer fans! For weeks people have been blasting the rookie. Gute even brought in another kicker this week.

Narveson's NFL career may have been on the line Sunday on each of his 4 kicks. Not only did he make all his XP's (3 of 3) and a 46 yarder, but his kickoffs lead to the Rams ending up having to return them and I don't think they ever made it to the 35, which is where they get it if the kick is downed/in EZ or landing zone.

I also might add that I think all of his kicks were pretty accurate, ie. they didn't just squeeze in next to one of the goalposts.

I don't want to jinx it, but let's hope the kid figured things out with the changes they made in his mechanics this week and his head is on straight too. I doubt Gute has anyone in kicking this week.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Finally, someone gives Enagbare soom credit for the forced fumble. That play was huge. It turned the game. Without it I am not certain we win.

It's not just the fumble though, he was a bit of a menace in pass rush too

 

[tynimiller]

Narveson's NFL career may have been on the line Sunday on each of his 4 kicks. Not only did he make all his XP's (3 of 3) and a 46 yarder, but his kickoffs lead to the Rams ending up having to return them and I don't think they ever made it to the 35, which is where they get it if the kick is downed/in EZ or landing zone.

We are one of a small group of teams intentionally doing this....I'm shocked more teams aren't.

 

[sschind]

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This play has been overanalyzed by far too many. Watching the All22 makes it even more impressive for Williams (the DB in coverage)...and only made possible by the underthrow by Love - which was made with one of our own essentially setting in Love's lap with the center of the pocket pushed massively on the play. Love back foot lobbed this ball and had it been just another yard or two Wicks isn't trying to high point this ball but catch it over the shoulder and likely is a touchdown....

Williams however was able to make up MASSIVE ground and when he jumps in the mere milliseconds before the ball arrives he pushes Wick's left wrist/hand completely off of alignment...vastly too late for Wicks to adjust and even try a proper one handed (right hand) catch.

Wick's has had a lot of drops this year - personally if I'm grading this play specifically I might still credit it as a drop but I don't know anyone in his body positioning and that late losing a hand makes that catch...sometimes the defender just makes a play.

So what you are really saying, without saying it, is that it was pass interference. Just kidding, You hit on two important points, well three really but two in Wicks' defense. First off yes he should have made that catch. That's the bottom line and its what goes into the stat sheet BUT, the ball was underthrown (analyzing Love's culpability on this play is for another post however, this one is about Wicks) Like you said a better placed ball and there is a good chance this is a TD. Second, I didn't see it close enough or, maybe to be more accurate didn't watch closely enough to see what role the defender played. Like so many others I saw the drop and blamed it all on Wicks (although I was aware of the underthrow) Your picture is one frame and doesn't give the whole view of the play so I am going to have to try to find the actual video but the other team gets paid to play as well.

I dont know if Wicks will make it, but I think it is likely. He has a high ceiling and he has the possibility of being at the Adams level with a more likely a very good WR . It is way too soon to write him off.

I absolutely think he will make it. As excited as I was over Watson and Doubs two years ago I and even more excited over Reed and Wicks. I think the decision over which WRs we try to keep and who we let walk might be easier than I initially thought.

He said as much himself just last week:

“Just like everybody else, I’ve had some drops, I’ve had some good catches. Try to critique myself on the bad plays, and seeing what was the reason for them. The drops are just taking my eyes off the ball before I finish the catch.”

As Ray Zalinsky said to Tommy Callahan "Good, you've pinpointed it, now the next step is washin' it out."

 

[tynimiller]

So what you are really saying, without saying it, is that it was pass interference. Just kidding, You hit on two important points, well three really but two in Wicks' defense. First off yes he should have made that catch. That's the bottom line and its what goes into the stat sheet BUT, the ball was underthrown (analyzing Love's culpability on this play is for another post however, this one is about Wicks) Like you said a better placed ball and there is a good chance this is a TD. Second, I didn't see it close enough or, maybe to be more accurate didn't watch closely enough to see what role the defender played. Like so many others I saw the drop and blamed it all on Wicks (although I was aware of the underthrow) Your picture is one frame and doesn't give the whole view of the play so I am going to have to try to find the actual video but the other team gets paid to play as well.


I absolutely think he will make it. As excited as I was over Watson and Doubs two years ago I and even more excited over Reed and Wicks. I think the decision over which WRs we try to keep and who we let walk might be easier than I initially thought.

As Ray Zalinsky said to Tommy Callahan "Good, you've pinpointed it, now the next step is washin' it out."

If time allows tonight I'll clip and slow down the play. The still I provided is the moment where the ball is likely just feet away and the defender's hand connects with Wicks hand/wrist area removing it for a moment from the positioning Wicks was doing with it as he tried to highpoint the ball....I am still blown away that Williams made it back up and played it so well after being BURNED...Love helped with that though.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I am

Hubby and I are 105 miles south of Tampa. We hope the brunt of this storm stays away from us. Our home is sturdy but storm surge could be an issue. *Fingers crossed*

Ok well stay safe. I know you know the drill.

 

[AmishMafia]

Duds: Everyone who posted Studs and didn't include Narveson!

Studs: Narveson!


Come on Packer fans! For weeks people have been blasting the rookie. Gute even brought in another kicker this week.

Narveson's NFL career may have been on the line Sunday on each of his 4 kicks. Not only did he make all his XP's (3 of 3) and a 46 yarder, but his kickoffs lead to the Rams ending up having to return them and I don't think they ever made it to the 35, which is where they get it if the kick is downed/in EZ or landing zone.

I also might add that I think all of his kicks were pretty accurate, ie. they didn't just squeeze in next to one of the goalposts.

I don't want to jinx it, but let's hope the kid figured things out with the changes they made in his mechanics this week and his head is on straight too. I doubt Gute has anyone in kicking this week.

I thought he was going to miss. He looked scared and he was walking around nervously. That much self negativity going through his head is very tough to overcome. But he did!

I, for one, am proud of him. Hope the two misses in a game early in his career is an obscure and unbelievable trivia question in twenty years when he sets some Packer kicking records.

 

[tynimiller]

I thought he was going to miss. He looked scared and he was walking around nervously. That much self negativity going through his head is very tough to overcome. But he did!

I, for one, am proud of him. Hope the two misses in a game early in his career is an obscure and unbelievable trivia question in twenty years when he sets some Packer kicking records.

Dude before that kick you could see it on his face....those breaths he took were insanely uneasy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We are one of a small group of teams intentionally doing this....I'm shocked more teams aren't.

I agree. When the rules were announced, I was thinking that the smart approach would be for your kicker to kick it high, to one side of the field and just short of the goal line, with your front 10, knowing which side of the field he would kick it too. With those front 10 being at the opponents 35 and only 9 guys to block them, you are already at an advantage. Just need to make sure you stay in your lanes and converge to the returner.

That said, it works, til it doesn't work. This new kickoff system is just that, new to all teams. It may not be until the end of the year or maybe not until next season, that teams will really figure out how best to play it, on both sides of the ball. By the 2nd week of the season, it seemed like most were content to just kick it into or out of the EZ and give the other team the ball at the 35. That might have made teams become complacent on practicing returning kicks. Which is why when a team like the Packers decide to kick it shorter, the receiving team may not be all that skilled at how to return it.

I am still not sold on the whole thing yet. Mainly because it totally took the surprise onside kick out of the game, as well as what I liked to call a "wide open fire drill, guys running all around the field, with their hair on fire."