Studs & Duds - Los Angeles

[tynimiller]

@OldSchool101 you ain't lying though, Doubs on that play was the first thing that went through my mind.....I would have placed a $100 bet in the air if I knew it was Doubs that he was coming down with it...

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree with this almost entirely...but the very last part in the context of the discussion, at least the way I took it (could be flat wrong in what you meant). Wick's drops this year have been a lot like Reeds' complete and utter lack of attention to the ball at the catch, I don't believe going back at his drops historically this year that he has had an issue with these jump ball types - I'll try to make time to check that however.

In college Wicks was an awesome jump ball target...this was the type of thing they'd do at times - clear double team and just toss it up:

x.com

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There is so much to like in Wicks that all we can collectively do is hope like many young WRs his hands maturate with time...because just like Reed, he is a weapon of a different kind in his ability to separate.

yes. However when I heard the announcer mention he carried this drop thing over from his Senior year I looked it up. Drops were one negative about his Draft Profile. Also another was his sample size was smaller across 3 seasons and his final season cut 2 games short.
I really think Wicks was very close to being a Top 50 type selection had he had another season and fixed the drop issues. He’s obviously very smooth you can watch him it’s very Davantish. Recall he was a standout basketball player also. You can tell

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[OldSchool101]

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[Pokerbrat2000]

Sometimes, however, you're just MVS.

Spot on. Seems the excuses and the hopes for MVS have followed him during his entire NFL career. But hey, he made bank with the Chiefs, so kudos to him. I noticed that with the Bills this year he has played in every game, been targeted 9 times and has 2 catches for 26 yds. and no TD's. He has a career catch rate of 49.6%. This could be his last year in the NFL.

 

[sschind]

Is this going to be an all-white color rush game? I actually like that look and wish they would make the helmets white as well, like what the Eagles did in Brazil. Can't do that in the winter at Lambeau though.........

That weekend in October can be tricky. It can be in the 40s or it can also be 65-70. At any rate watch for deer. It is rutting season. One year on Lombardi Ave. less than a mile from Lambeau traffic was held up the night before by a wild turkey. But you will be in a sea of green.

Wild Turkey can be a problem.

Ok I don't get why no one is mentioning narverson as a stud, the guy did a complete 180 and made all his kicks and he didnt just make them , his kicks were almost perfect, splitting the uprghts with a ball fight that was close to being straight as an arrow. It was a night and day performance from his previous games. If he can maintain whatever changes he made going foward we may have our money guy for FGs and XPs.

Poker and DuRant also mentioned it. I guess given his past its a stud performance by him. I'm happy he made them all and I'm happy for him and I hope he has gotten things figured out but kicking 1 FG and 3 EPs hardly qualifies IMO. I hope there are days when I can legitimately consider him a stud.

When you watch that play. The DB times his jump perfectly. His hand barely brushes Wicks forearm. You see Wick attempting to close his hands but that very slight brush slows the clamp down a mili second before the ball passes perfectly through his hands and it’s timed perfectly.
It’s not Pass Interference because the DB puts his eyes on the ball to try to catch it. He just timed his jump too soon but by doing so it grazed Wicks arm in the way down just a microscopic smidge.
Imo Wicks hands were too far apart as the ball arrives. That the mini bump was only a minor distraction as it did not cause much physical movement in the forearm. I had to watch it 3 times just to see if it even brushed him. It was that light. It wouldn’t be PI though. The rule states that the Defender has a right to play the Ball and it’s almost non detectable he even grazes Wicks even on slow motion replay. The DB’s are allowed that every time.
IMO It was a good throw when it gives the WR a valid attempt to put 2 hands on the Ball. We’re talking a 35+ Pass here.
Could it have been thrown to lead him more? Sure I suppose but was that even the designed play to do so? Idk. I’d say 2 of Doubs, Watson and Reed would’ve made that same catch.

I agree on the PI. As far as catching the ball I'd say Wicks would make that catch the majority of the time as would Doubs, Watson and Reed. It was simply a pass that was a bit underthrown partly because Love was under pressure causing Wicks to have to come back which allowed the defender to make a great play on the ball disrupting DWs concentration enough to cause the ball to fall incomplete.

There is so much to like in Wicks that all we can collectively do is hope like many young WRs his hands maturate with time...because just like Reed, he is a weapon of a different kind in his ability to separate.

Maturate? Watch yourself there buddy. This is a family friendly group.

 

[tynimiller]

I seem to remember other young GB receivers having problems with drops early in their career...Davante Adams, Jordy Nelson, Josh Jones, etc.

Yes, indeed - It is correctable. And I do expect Mr. Wicks will probably get there.

Sometimes, however, you're just MVS.

I don't think that will be the case with D. Wicks.

Spot on. Seems the excuses and the hopes for MVS have followed him during his entire NFL career. But hey, he made bank with the Chiefs, so kudos to him. I noticed that with the Bills this year he has bee targeted 9 times and has 2 catches for 26 yds. and no TD's. He has a career catch rate of 49.6%. This could be his last year in the NFL.

HOWEVER, as has been broken down time and time again lower catch percentages is expected with how MVS was utilized - it is the one common factor except the rare exception that guys with such deep targets almost always hover under 60% catch rates outside of the top/elites and even many of them at struggle on long targets.

That is I find myself vastly more concerned with Wicks than I ever was with MVS - his role isn't just a field stretcher and one who typically going to be targeted with bombs...Wicks is a route technician at getting open and most of his drops have been concentration based IMO (Reed as well).

Also MVS's worst season with credited drops by many sources was 2020...when his average depth of target was over 18 - which for those curious that is insanely DEEP. That was the year he held the league lead with yards per catch of 20.9. Pro Football Reference actually credited MVS with zero drops his final year here and PFF agreed.

Wicks' average depth of target is 11.7 and he has 5 drops already in five games - that is why everyone is vastly more justified for being worried with Wicks' than they ever were with MVS. Truth is Wicks may very well be the most gifted WR4 we ever have.....if he figures his hands out I will begrudgingly say he is arguably the outside WR1 in the making....his hands control millions in his future - which is why I suspect we see growth.

 

[OldSchool101]

Wicks' average depth of target is 11.7 and he has 5 drops already in five games - that is why everyone is vastly more justified for being worried with Wicks' than they ever were with MVS. Truth is Wicks may very well be the most gifted WR4 we ever have.....if he figures his hands out I will begrudgingly say he is arguably the outside WR1 in the making....his hands control millions in his future - which is why I suspect we see growth.

The thing with Dontayvion is we know he can do it. He finished last season just under 68%. I seriously believe if he works on his catching in various scenarios he’s an easy 60-65% reception guy. He’s already exceeded that % in 2023 this is like his Sophomore slump

 

[milani]

With all the Packers fans there it looked and sounded like a home game.

It sounded like a middle of the road crowd more interested in just seeing a fun football game rather than fretting about who would win or lose.

 

[milani]

HOWEVER, as has been broken down time and time again lower catch percentages is expected with how MVS was utilized - it is the one common factor except the rare exception that guys with such deep targets almost always hover under 60% catch rates outside of the top/elites and even many of them at struggle on long targets.

That is I find myself vastly more concerned with Wicks than I ever was with MVS - his role isn't just a field stretcher and one who typically going to be targeted with bombs...Wicks is a route technician at getting open and most of his drops have been concentration based IMO (Reed as well).

Also MVS's worst season with credited drops by many sources was 2020...when his average depth of target was over 18 - which for those curious that is insanely DEEP. That was the year he held the league lead with yards per catch of 20.9. Pro Football Reference actually credited MVS with zero drops his final year here and PFF agreed.

Wicks' average depth of target is 11.7 and he has 5 drops already in five games - that is why everyone is vastly more justified for being worried with Wicks' than they ever were with MVS. Truth is Wicks may very well be the most gifted WR4 we ever have.....if he figures his hands out I will begrudgingly say he is arguably the outside WR1 in the making....his hands control millions in his future - which is why I suspect we see growth.

Think he meant James Jones.He could catch the hard ones and drop the easy ones.

 

[tynimiller]

Think he meant James Jones.He could catch the hard ones and drop the easy ones.

Both were referencing MVS - which is what I providing some light to.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

HOWEVER, as has been broken down time and time again lower catch percentages is expected with how MVS was utilized - it is the one common factor except the rare exception that guys with such deep targets almost always hover under 60% catch rates outside of the top/elites and even many of them at struggle on long targets.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree about MVS.

I for one, am glad that the Packers didn't sign him to a 2nd contract.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Ok I don't get why no one is mentioning narverson as a stud, the guy did a complete 180 and made all his kicks and he didnt just make them , his kicks were almost perfect, splitting the uprghts with a ball fight that was close to being straight as an arrow. It was a night and day performance from his previous games. If he can maintain whatever changes he made going foward we may have our money guy for FGs and XPs.

With all respect, I don’t grade a guy a stud for doing what he is supposed to do. Now if he starts to hit regularly from 50 plus and helps win a game instead of losing, different story.

That said, I hope he’s the guy and continues performances like Sunday.

Wild Turkey can be a problem.

Poker and DuRant also mentioned it. I guess given his past its a stud performance by him. I'm happy he made them all and I'm happy for him and I hope he has gotten things figured out but kicking 1 FG and 3 EPs hardly qualifies IMO. I hope there are days when I can legitimately consider him a stud.


I agree on the PI. As far as catching the ball I'd say Wicks would make that catch the majority of the time as would Doubs, Watson and Reed. It was simply a pass that was a bit underthrown partly because Love was under pressure causing Wicks to have to come back which allowed the defender to make a great play on the ball disrupting DWs concentration enough to cause the ball to fall incomplete.



Maturate? Watch yourself there buddy. This is a family friendly group.

Maturate? sounds like something W would say. In fairness though, it is a word and so could have been picked up by spell check. Gotta give Ty a pass.

 

[Magooch]

On the topic of drops, I just read that Love currently leads the NFL in passes dropped percentage (~11%)

 

[tynimiller]

We are just going to have to agree to disagree about MVS.

I for one, am glad that the Packers didn't sign him to a 2nd contract.

Facts are what they are - folks expected MVS to deliver a catch percentage higher than nearly any receiver with his average depth of target has historically.

I think it is very fair to be a fan of GB not paying MVS at all and him going elsewhere, but its simply not true to blast the guy as many do at times specifically on catch percentage or drops given his role and the historical facts surrounding players like him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

On the topic of drops, I just read that Love currently leads the NFL in passes dropped percentage (~11%)

Not all that surprising. I think with Love getting injured at the end of game #1 and not playing again until week 4, put him on course to have the rust off of his game by about game 6 or 7. Throw in how young the WR group is and drops are going to happen.

 

[tynimiller]

On the topic of drops, I just read that Love currently leads the NFL in passes dropped percentage (~11%)

I find that hard to imagine but I'd have to double check the claim. What site is posting this? Will take some filtering of stats but I'm curious enough to do it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Facts are what they are - folks expected MVS to deliver a catch percentage higher than nearly any receiver with his average depth of target has historically.

I think it is very fair to be a fan of GB not paying MVS at all and him going elsewhere, but its simply not true to blast the guy as many do at times specifically on catch percentage or drops given his role and the historical facts surrounding players like him.

I think the Chiefs initially agreed with your assessment of MVS and it was why they signed him for $10M/year. However, I think after 2 years, they agreed with my assessment and cut him.

 

[tynimiller]

I think the Chiefs initially agreed with your assessment of MVS and it was why they signed him for $10M/year. However, I think after 2 years, they agreed with my assessment and cut him.

They absolutely didn't agree with my assessment of him, a player that played his role was nowhere near that value. They hoped for the ceiling and didn't get close...the way his contract was structured any team is cutting a role type guy that had a two year deal from the start that was NEVER seeing that third year unless he became more than that role type guy.

 

[Magooch]

I find that hard to imagine but I'd have to double check the claim. What site is posting this? Will take some filtering of stats but I'm curious enough to do it.

Tweet Here is where I originally saw. Unsourced, but a generally reliable account…

I suppose it depends on grader too but Pro Football Reference has him tied for first in drop percentage at 9.9%.

 

[Magooch]

Tweet Here is where I originally saw. Unsourced, but a generally reliable account…

I suppose it depends on grader too but Pro Football Reference has him tied for first in drop percentage at 9.9%.

I will also note that Zach Kruse (writer for Packers Wire, etc) responded to that tweet by pointing out that Love is also 2nd-to-last in adjusted completion percentage (accounting for drops, throwaways, etc), so you take the good with the bad I guess lol

 

[tynimiller]

Tweet Here is where I originally saw. Unsourced, but a generally reliable account…

I suppose it depends on grader too but Pro Football Reference has him tied for first in drop percentage at 9.9%.

Someone reminded me my thought process included Love had five games not three....duh...LOL and that one we had a LOT of drops.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

HOWEVER, as has been broken down time and time again lower catch percentages is expected with how MVS was utilized - it is the one common factor except the rare exception that guys with such deep targets almost always hover under 60% catch rates outside of the top/elites and even many of them at struggle on long targets.

That is I find myself vastly more concerned with Wicks than I ever was with MVS - his role isn't just a field stretcher and one who typically going to be targeted with bombs...Wicks is a route technician at getting open and most of his drops have been concentration based IMO (Reed as well).

Also MVS's worst season with credited drops by many sources was 2020...when his average depth of target was over 18 - which for those curious that is insanely DEEP. That was the year he held the league lead with yards per catch of 20.9. Pro Football Reference actually credited MVS with zero drops his final year here and PFF agreed.

Wicks' average depth of target is 11.7 and he has 5 drops already in five games - that is why everyone is vastly more justified for being worried with Wicks' than they ever were with MVS. Truth is Wicks may very well be the most gifted WR4 we ever have.....if he figures his hands out I will begrudgingly say he is arguably the outside WR1 in the making....his hands control millions in his future - which is why I suspect we see growth.

The thing about Wicks is that seems to get open a lot. Good route-runner, good footwork. I think in time the catches will come.

MVS came into the league as a potential fifth-round steal - A bigger receiver with explosive speed. Now he's in his seventh year on his third team, and despite the fact he's played with stellar quarterbacks (Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen), he's never really been more than just a guy.

I have higher hopes or Wicks.

 

[Pugger]

The thing about Wicks is that seems to get open a lot. Good route-runner, good footwork. I think in time the catches will come.

MVS came into the league as a potential fifth-round steal - A bigger receiver with explosive speed. Now he's in his seventh year on his third team, and despite the fact he's played with stellar quarterbacks (Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen), he's never really been more than just a guy.

I have higher hopes or Wicks.

I had to look him up to see what team he is on now (Buffalo). I thought he was still in KC.

 

[tynimiller]

The thing about Wicks is that seems to get open a lot. Good route-runner, good footwork. I think in time the catches will come.

MVS came into the league as a potential fifth-round steal - A bigger receiver with explosive speed. Now he's in his seventh year on his third team, and despite the fact he's played with stellar quarterbacks (Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen), he's never really been more than just a guy.

I have higher hopes or Wicks.

Of course and nothing I said was ever to pretend or defend the concept of MVS be more than a solid depth piece that does stretch the field amazingly well.

Had he not shown just enough for someone to dice roll on his future being his ceiling not what he was at the time I suspect he’d have likely been here on a cheap deal - fact is he is a deep threat that can block, that is a great WR4 or 3 highest and that typically is always something you want on a rookie contract

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I had to look him up to see what team he is on now (Buffalo). I thought he was still in KC.

Yes, into relative obscurity.