Steelers 2017 studs and duds

[HardRightEdge]

Rather than belabor the same points, I'll go ahead and give Brooks a "stud". I'm surprised he did not get a mention to this point. He played a nice game. I suspect he's on a limited snap count because of his back issues. If that's not the issue, then Capers is being stupid. The guy can play some football and Fackrell should be carrying his bag in Matthews' absence, not the other way around.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I forgot HHCD was defya Dud. Has this dude ever made a tackle in the box? He got kicked out his jock strap at least three times last night. I thought he would be a playmaker after his rookie year but he’s just a guy. Nothing he does stands out except always late in coverage and missing tackles.

Yeah, he made a tackle in the box last night.

What we can say about him is he's assignment sure. He's the "don't break" in Capers "bend". He just doesn't make many plays unless the QB air mails a ball. Nobody is afraid to go over the middle underneath him because he just doesn't get to those balls and he's not going to light anybody up.

The middle of this pass defense is better than the terrible stuff we've seen in recent years, thanks to some improvement from the ILBs and Burnett rotating there, but it remains the soft white underbelly.

You know what, though? After his 5th. year option is up, he'll get a very nice contract if Thompson/McCarthy/Capers are still around.

 

[HardRightEdge]

By the way. Anybody wonder why Kendricks doesn't get more targets? His route running is not good at all.

 

[PikeBadger]

Dud: Capers. When Hundley leads the team to 28 pts.....you find a way to win the ******** game. His completely non-existant pass rush and poor tackling hurt this team dearly. His soft zone crap on the last drive put them in FG range and gave them all the time in the world. The 2nd play of the drive was atrocious on Capers part. I am done with the wheel of excuses. First its the coaches, then its the talent level , then its how the talent plays.....it just keeps circling around and nothing ever changes.

Poor tackling has been a problem in Green Bay for years now. I think Thompson needs to make that a prerequisite to drafting defenders. There is so little practice time now under the stipulations of the CBA that it may not be a correctable flaw anymore (or our coaches are unable to teach it). One of the changes this off season that I would not be surprised to see is both of our starting safeties leaving town.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Poor tackling has been a problem in Green Bay for years now. I think Thompson needs to make that a prerequisite to drafting defenders. There is so little practice time now under the stipulations of the CBA that it may not be a correctable flaw anymore (or our coaches are unable to teach it). One of the changes this off season that I would not be surprised to see is both of our starting safeties leaving town.

Hopefully it will be someone other than Thompson making those decisions. The Packers losing both starting safeties next offseason would be a terrible start to rebuild the defense.

 

[Carl 2]

I have to admit, I wanted the win last night, but when the game was over, I took solace in moving up in the draft and maybe another nail in the Capers coffin!

Capers certainly has had problems, but I don't see this game as one that was on him.

To me it was more an extremely talented offense beating our guys.

We couldn't get pressure with four and when we blitzed, Rothlisburger was good enough to get it away anyway.

When we double teamed Brown sometimes he'd catch it anyway or Rothlisburger would just find the better match up somewhere else.

Not defending Capers as whole or saying anything about whether he should keep his job. Being clear since those tend to come up often.

 

[Half Empty]

Capers certainly has had problems, but I don't see this game as one that was on him.

To me it was more an extremely talented offense beating our guys.

We couldn't get pressure with four and when we blitzed, Rothlisburger was good enough to get it away anyway.

When we double teamed Brown sometimes he'd catch it anyway or Rothlisburger would just find the better match up somewhere else.

Not defending Capers as whole or saying anything about whether he should keep his job. Being clear since those tend to come up often.

I think this is a great example of point of view in sports. I can't really find fault with anything specific that was said, but what I see is 'they can't find a way to pressure the QB' and 'they can't find a way to stop the other team's #1', and I come away wondering what a pro football team's DC is paid to do.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yeah, he made a tackle in the box last night.

What we can say about him is he's assignment sure. He's the "don't break" in Capers "bend". He just doesn't make many plays unless the QB air mails a ball. Nobody is afraid to go over the middle underneath him because he just doesn't get to those balls and he's not going to light anybody up.

The middle of this pass defense is better than the terrible stuff we've seen in recent years, thanks to some improvement from the ILBs and Burnett rotating there, but it remains the soft white underbelly.

You know what, though? After his 5th. year option is up, he'll get a very nice contract if Thompson/McCarthy/Capers are still around.

I'm not sure you can actually say he's assignment sure when he routinely takes terrible angles. Being in the right place in the defense is only part of playing well, knowing how to move from point A to point B is pretty important as well and he routinely takes a detour through point H before getting to point B.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think this is a great example of point of view in sports. I can't really find fault with anything specific that was said, but what I see is 'they can't find a way to pressure the QB' and 'they can't find a way to stop the other team's #1', and I come away wondering what a pro football team's DC is paid to do.

You might also wonder what a pro-team's GM is paid to do. You're questioning how the team couldn't get a pass rush when the only real pass rusher on the team is Mike Daniels (sorry, Nick Perry is currently proving that last year was the exception). What exactly should a DC do when he has to rely on Nick Perry and Ahamd Brooks as the main edge rushers? Especially when you have to contain the best WR in the league, you really wanna go blitz-heavy? This team's defensive personnel has routinely been sub-par. Capers needs to take the fall but Thompson has done a terrible job of putting talented players on the defense.

 

[Half Empty]

What I'm really questioning is why they pay a DC what Capers gets if he's not expected to be able to mount a pass rush or cover receivers because of bad talent. If that's the case, I can do just as poor as job for way less money. My 'point of view' is that DCs are paid to do more with less than they other guy. But, hey, that's just me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Capers has had his share of "well coached games" since coming to Green Bay, but he has also generally fielded crappy defenses, despite all of the draft resources (and free agents this year) that he has been given to work with. Throw in guys like Heyward and Hyde going to other teams and playing better, you begin to see that Capers isn't fully doing his job.

I'm fine when a defense is "off" and has a bad game once in awhile, but it seems like Capers has created the opposite. Most of the time the defense isn't very good and once in awhile they will show signs of looking good. Time to put an end to the Capers era and see if we can find a DC who consistently puts an average to above average defense on the field, which is really all you need when you have #12.

 

[Mondio]

this team has failed for numerous reasons throughout the years. Offense not scoring points at times, defense failing more than a couple times. bad decisions etc. I have seen Capers put some pretty decent defenses on the field with less than stellar players, usually thru injury, but i do not believe this team has a lack of players on defense to be pretty damn good. Granted the last game we were without our best Defensive lineman and Matthews, who despite what people want to say, was having a pretty good year up until getting hurt last week. Numbers aren't there, but he was flying around and was probably having one of his better years in run support. and like it or not, an investment was made in him and sometimes they pay off and sometimes not. You think the Steelers defense would be just as good with taking Hayward out of the game and one of their rushing linebackers? Do you think if Watt keeps performing and they make a large investment in him and every year he gets hurt after, do you think that will help their team or hurt them?

But I just see too many talented players out there that should be a part of a really good defense and at best we ever get is adequate.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

But I just see too many talented players out there that should be a part of a really good defense and at best we ever get is adequate.

That is where I have been with Capers for far too long and think the Packers organization has given him plenty of time to prove his worth. Like I said in a previous post, the Packers don't need a top 10 defense when they have #12, but they need one that isn't bottom 10. Every squirrel finds a nut and occasionally that is Capers defenses. Most often, when they force or the other teams gives up, turnovers. But unlike the Bears 1985 Defense that finished with something like a +23 turnover ratio, this defense only seems to shine when the opposing offense isn't having a good day.

I would love to hear an honest assessment from Packer players, which I'm sure we will never hear fully. But do they like Capers, buy into his system, etc. Give me a younger, energetic, creative DC that players are fully locked into and I will be much happier.

 

[Mondio]

I figured this year would be his last if they didn't take a big step forward. They're better than last year, but how high was that bar? so far i haven't seen a job saving season from him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm not sure you can actually say he's assignment sure when he routinely takes terrible angles. Being in the right place in the defense is only part of playing well, knowing how to move from point A to point B is pretty important as well and he routinely takes a detour through point H before getting to point B.

Assignments and angles are two different things.

The former is about knowing one's role within the defensive call, then making adjustments pre-snap, and then reacting to what you see unfolding. I'd score C-D pretty high on this score.

Taking bad angles or missing tackles or just not making plays when the opportunity presents itself is a matter of execution.

Believe me, when most posters on this board were lauding C-D's Pro Bowl season, I was saying I did not see a Pro Bowl performance and that voters did not look past the INT count. However, I don't see any point in flopping the other way in saying the guy sucks. He's playing the same game he played last season. An argument might be made that when the coverage guys in front of him are not playing up to snuff he has to hang back and play tentatively (the "don't break" in the "bend" alluded to earlier).

In the final analysis, he's a solid player who just doesn't make plays with the frequency you'd associate with a Pro Bowl player.

C-D has been paid about $8.3 mil over the 4 years of his rookie deal. The Packers have gotten more than their money's worth.

He will be on a 5th. year option contract next year for about $6 mil. Given the on-going question marks in the rest of the secondary, I would not expect him to be released. For one more year he'll be a core player especially if they part ways with Burnett. Drafting Jones seemed to indicate if not an intent, at least a consideration of Burnett's upcoming free agency. Parting ways with Burnett makes C-D's retention a lock at that price.

 

[easyk83]

I have really been disappointed in HHCDIII this year. I expected his game to get better, not worse. He looks tentative and almost afraid to hit and how many tackles has he completely whiffed on this year? Have to put some of the blame on coaching, because they are either not trying to get him to change or if they are, he isn't listening and should be benched for awhile.

One play last night, a relatively deep pass to a Steeler, Dix literally stood between the WR and the end zone and let him catch the ball as another Packer defender trailing the play made the tackle after the catch. Dix instead of lunging forward a yard or two and trying to break up the pass, looked as if his cleats were locked into cement and he was standing there only ready to try and make a tackle after giving up the reception, which he probably would have whiffed on.

Ive had the impression that he's been sloppy and maybe trying to do too much, but if his play has turned lax maybe he's not used to losing like this?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think this is a great example of point of view in sports. I can't really find fault with anything specific that was said, but what I see is 'they can't find a way to pressure the QB' and 'they can't find a way to stop the other team's #1', and I come away wondering what a pro football team's DC is paid to do.

Clearly you need to do one or the other, and doing one helps the other.

Take the Steelers, for example. Their secondary play is mediocre at best, but the defensive stats don't show it because they get a ton of help from a top pass rush.

 

[Carl 2]

I think this is a great example of point of view in sports. I can't really find fault with anything specific that was said, but what I see is 'they can't find a way to pressure the QB' and 'they can't find a way to stop the other team's #1', and I come away wondering what a pro football team's DC is paid to do.

Yes DC is paid to do that, but that doesn't mean Capers or any DC can do it.

With the lack of the pass rush, I don't see how any DC could have been successful with the same personnel.

Also, sometimes the right call is made and the just doesn't work.

A perfect example I just read about is Brown's late sideline catch. The Packers rolled three guys to that side and the play was designed specifically to take away that route, but the Steelers beat it anyway.

Article is called "Packers' defense comes up empty on two key plays."

I just saw the Steelers winning their match ups most of the game.

Makes me wonder how often we have the right call, but it doesnt work anyway.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ive had the impression that he's been sloppy and maybe trying to do too much, but if his play has turned lax maybe he's not used to losing like this?

Ha Ha was playing sloppy when the Packers were winning. I wouldn't be surprised if he has either gotten lazy since his 5th year $5.5M+ extension or he has an eye on a big second contract, has seen all the injuries around him and is playing it safe for fear of getting hurt.

He won't be cut next year, but he does have a $5.597M contract, with none of it guaranteed.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Assignments and angles are two different things.

The former is about knowing one's role within the defensive call, then making adjustments pre-snap, and then reacting to what you see unfolding. I'd score C-D pretty high on this score.

Taking bad angles or missing tackles or just not making plays when the opportunity presents itself is a matter of execution.

Believe me, when most posters on this board were lauding C-D's Pro Bowl season, I was saying I did not see a Pro Bowl performance and that voters did not look past the INT count. However, I don't see any point in flopping the other way in saying the guy sucks. He's playing the same game he played last season. An argument might be made that when the coverage guys in front of him are not playing up to snuff he has to hang back and play tentatively (the "don't break" in the "bend" alluded to earlier).

In the final analysis, he's a solid player who just doesn't make plays with the frequency you'd associate with a Pro Bowl player.

C-D has been paid about $8.3 mil over the 4 years of his rookie deal. The Packers have gotten more than their money's worth.

He will be on a 5th. year option contract next year for about $6 mil. Given the on-going question marks in the rest of the secondary, I would not expect him to be released. For one more year he'll be a core player especially if they part ways with Burnett. Drafting Jones seemed to indicate if not an intent, at least a consideration of Burnett's upcoming free agency. Parting ways with Burnett makes C-D's retention a lock at that price.

Burnett and HaHa are completely different types of safeties though. If the front office is tying the future of one to the future of another, that would be a next-level demonstration of incompetence. I'm not suggesting that you implied they are similar players, Burnett is a much better overall player that does his best work close to the line (be it in supporting the run or covering the slot) while HaHa is, occasionally, a much better deep safety. I certainly don't think the team should release HaHa, you're not getting a better free agent at that position at that price, but I also don't think the team needs to absolutely extend him as soon as they can. He's basically the equivalent of Nick Perry at this point, with fewer injuries and less demonstrable upside.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Burnett and HaHa are completely different types of safeties though. If the front office is tying the future of one to the future of another, that would be a next-level demonstration of incompetence. I'm not suggesting that you implied they are similar players, Burnett is a much better overall player that does his best work close to the line (be it in supporting the run or covering the slot) while HaHa is, occasionally, a much better deep safety. I certainly don't think the team should release HaHa, you're not getting a better free agent at that position at that price, but I also don't think the team needs to absolutely extend him as soon as they can. He's basically the equivalent of Nick Perry at this point, with fewer injuries and less demonstrable upside.

I'm glad you did not imply that because I did not say it.

The fact is C-D is under contract for next season and Burnett is not. I gave Burnett my Packer defensive MVP award last season; this year he's been in and out with injuries. He'll be 29 years old next year.

I think he's got a couple of decent years left. I would expect the Packers to try to sign him to a short term deal, maybe two years. If somebody offers more the Packers are not going to go overboard to match. And as I mentioned, they did draft Jones, a guy who fits the safety/ILB swing mode, and I don't think that pick and Burnett's pending free agency and age is mere coincidence.

As for the future of one player in a position group being tied to another, if one does not believe some thought is given to the allocation of cap to position groups one would be mistaken. Around these parts, expense has not been spared on QB, WR, OT, OLB. Other groups seem to be on a budget.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's impossible to fairly evaluate the main reason for the defensive struggles over the past six seasons as the Packers have held on to both Thompson and Capers for some mind-boggling reason while expecting different results.

The team should move on from both this offseason and give a shot to someone else trying to rebuild the unit.

Ha Ha was playing sloppy when the Packers were winning. I wouldn't be surprised if he has either gotten lazy since his 5th year $5.5M+ extension or he has an eye on a big second contract, has seen all the injuries around him and is playing it safe for fear of getting hurt.

He won't be cut next year, but he does have a $5.597M contract, with none of it guaranteed.

The fifth year option is guaranteed for injury though.

 

[PikeBadger]

Capers certainly has had problems, but I don't see this game as one that was on him.

To me it was more an extremely talented offense beating our guys.

We couldn't get pressure with four and when we blitzed, Rothlisburger was good enough to get it away anyway.

When we double teamed Brown sometimes he'd catch it anyway or Rothlisburger would just find the better match up somewhere else.

Not defending Capers as whole or saying anything about whether he should keep his job. Being clear since those tend to come up often.

I know people are disappointed, some angry, some looking to place blame but that was a really good football game. Rothlisberger, Bell and Brown are a very lethal combination and I don’t have any problem saying they are hot and right now imo are the best team in the NFL. Our guys hung tough, and played an excellent game overall against a very formidable opponent. It just wasn’t good enough. I can live with that.

 

[rmontro]

Not yet it hasn't. If we don't win the next two, then yes. Yeah, we need help, but at this point there are still several routes to a wildcard. Seattle and Atlanta both have tough schedules here out and never underestimate Detroit's ability to lose in December. The fat lady is warming up but she still hasn't sung.

We're not mathematically eliminated, but the odds of getting in are pretty slim. Too many good to decent teams ahead of us, they're not all going to collapse.

 

[easyk83]

Capers has had his share of "well coached games" since coming to Green Bay, but he has also generally fielded crappy defenses, despite all of the draft resources (and free agents this year) that he has been given to work with. Throw in guys like Heyward and Hyde going to other teams and playing better, you begin to see that Capers isn't fully doing his job.

I'm fine when a defense is "off" and has a bad game once in awhile, but it seems like Capers has created the opposite. Most of the time the defense isn't very good and once in awhile they will show signs of looking good. Time to put an end to the Capers era and see if we can find a DC who consistently puts an average to above average defense on the field, which is really all you need when you have #12.

Dom has a track record, brilliant initial success and then things start to go downhill. See his tenure in Carolina, the guy fielded a top ten defense with an expansion team and then in year 2 I think it was the number 2 scoring defense in the league, who does that? The equally baffling part is how his defense turned to crap the year after their NFCG appearance in Lambeau. If you want to take a bottom feeder defense and turned it around Dom is a miracle worker, but if he's there for more than 2-3 years things will turn ugly.