raji for 2

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Mondito said I was on drugs. (demeaning) and the smiley faces and laughing? What do you consider it when someone accusues you of being on drugs and dismisses your thoughts with a laugh to your face?

Its not needed. Just like your antagonistic Meme... Im here to talk football.

If you`re going to nit pick, you`re comment about Wimm being a Lawyer could be taken as a personal dig too !!

 

[Mondio]

I like that name, "Mondito"

 

[TJV]

Alright. Im going to start making a list of stuck in the box "facts" you ruthlessly force feed...

Oh no!!! Not a list!!!

He snubbed 8 mil a year because he thought he could get more hey? I'd like to see a link to this fact...

I never called it a fact, I wrote “see post #36” because I agree with adambr2’s take on it and nowhere in that paragraph did he use the word “fact”.

And as far as the dime goes... I (right away) said I assumed too much by the article title. I also asked a dozen times WHO was on the field?

No you didn’t. Why do you keep making things up that can be easily checked? In the OP of that thread you whined about getting slammed for saying the Packers would play 3 down linemen in the dime and then wrote, “If you soak your crow in salt , it gets rid of the gamey taste.” You didn’t link or reference an article. So as I posted before, you started a thread to post “I told you so” when you admitted you had no idea how many DL were on the field. Here’s an idea you are struggling with: The person asserting a fact has the responsibility to back it up. That’s why your asking “a dozen” times who was on the field just made you look sillier. None of us alleged there were a certain number of DL on the field, you did. And almost all of us knew/know the Packers dime almost always has one ILB so Barrington lining up there was nothing new.

As for what Raji will do this year, I don’t know. IMO he’s more physically talented than his play would indicate for the past few seasons. I hope he finds the motivation he’s been missing. He is talking a good talk (but he’s done that before) and McCarthy was impressed by his effort last season before he got injured. His added flexibility should help him. But it all boils down to motivation and I can’t read his mind or measure his heart.

As for taking this seriously, yes I do. And so do many others. If you don’t want to, that’s fine. But when you joined this board you bragged about your ability to “think outside the box” and have posted things like, “I seem to have a knack for picking talent at certain positions…” But your posts are filled with factual errors and you continue to display your misunderstanding of the Packers D schemes. Again, nothing wrong with that but if you aren’t taking this seriously, why get so upset when you’re corrected? And it’s one thing to think “outside the box” but that’s not what I’ve seen you do. You throw ideas out without any serious analysis of them. Hey, how ‘bout this and how ‘bout that? Nothing wrong with that unless you are trying to be taken seriously. - TJV

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

If you`re going to nit pick, you`re comment about Wimm being a Lawyer could be taken as a personal dig too !!

When I come here to see who replied to my comments from the days before. I consistantly see this crew coming at me "Nit Picking"... I come this morning(like every day) , Post #36/7 disagree fine, but then conforming to the "Eli is crazy theme", and Jack hashing up proof of my craziness from weeks old posts where they got me on a arrogant slip of the tounge... In my book thats called picking a fight. I will stand behind my original comments. I will not fold to the high school click stuff going on. And I will act like a jerk when faced with a jerk. Note all the posts where I come here to talk football.... Note those.

Wimm being a lawyer comment. Let me tell you about me. I am always coming up with predictions and spins on the game. Some are good and some are bad. Im ok with being wrong. But Im right more than Im wrong. Wimm and the click on the other hand simply states the status quo, of what already happened. Counts it as fact until him and his council decide they see the Packers doing something else. They do not have an opinion. they do not go out on a limb. I come straight out and asked what he thought of Raji. After all this negative sentiment... And he comes back with a lawyer answer. Completely non-commital. THATS the problem. The guys that do stuff make mistakes sometimes... If you are always right, you arent doing anything... He just left the back door open to jump back on the Raji bandwagon mid-season. I want an answer after all this.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Oh no!!! Not a list!!! I never called it a fact, I wrote “see post #36” because I agree with adambr2’s take on it and nowhere in that paragraph did he use the word “fact”. No you didn’t. Why do you keep making things up that can be easily checked? In the OP of that thread you whined about getting slammed for saying the Packers would play 3 down linemen in the dime and then wrote, “If you soak your crow in salt , it gets rid of the gamey taste.” You didn’t link or reference an article. So as I posted before, you started a thread to post “I told you so” when you admitted you had no idea how many DL were on the field. Here’s an idea you are struggling with: The person asserting a fact has the responsibility to back it up. That’s why your asking “a dozen” times who was on the field just made you look sillier. None of us alleged there were a certain number of DL on the field, you did. And almost all of us knew/know the Packers dime almost always has one ILB so Barrington lining up there was nothing new.

As for what Raji will do this year, I don’t know. IMO he’s more physically talented than his play would indicate for the past few seasons. I hope he finds the motivation he’s been missing. He is talking a good talk (but he’s done that before) and McCarthy was impressed by his effort last season before he got injured. His added flexibility should help him. But it all boils down to motivation and I can’t read his mind or measure his heart.

As for taking this seriously, yes I do. And so do many others. If you don’t want to, that’s fine. But when you joined this board you bragged about your ability to “think outside the box” and have posted things like, “I seem to have a knack for picking talent at certain positions…” But your posts are filled with factual errors and you continue to display your misunderstanding of the Packers D schemes. Again, nothing wrong with that but if you aren’t taking this seriously, why get so upset when you’re corrected? And it’s one thing to think “outside the box” but that’s not what I’ve seen you do. You throw ideas out without any serious analysis of them. Hey, how ‘bout this and how ‘bout that? Nothing wrong with that unless you are trying to be taken seriously. - TJV

Yes I did. Go back and read. I knew I assumed too much, and I got the sack to admit I was wrong in my assumption.

And lets reopen this debate. I in fact did step back within minutes of my original post. The crow comment is called a joke, and guess what the joke was on me... I WAS WRONG!!! You continue to death grip this one time i spoke in good fun, too soon... But again the debate was very deep and dynamic... It stemmed from the fact that I believe the 3-4 depends on a dominant front 3 doing the job of 4 in a 4-3. To play otherwise is conceding the trenches to their line, and depending on trickery. Thats how the 3-4 works many times, for Gods sake I know. But I believe the 3 up front should be dominant and in for the nickel package as well... This was a whole heated topic in itself. The Raji topic now is a spin off of the lack of talent on the D-line at the time... all inter related Imo.

Now the fact that the dime in previous years had 1 D-lineman and 4 LBs. In practice that day there were 2 D-linemen. Thats a difference. I claimed for a bit there was 3, and was wrong. But there was 1 more than usual. AND THAT is what you chose to ignore. I was wrong. But in a sense that the talent of the D-line being much higher this year, we now have 2 D-linemen in the dime... It speaks volumes to this whole debate!!!

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

VJacx,
I say things before people thought about them. You say I dont think about them? Does the rambling on of months worth of debate sound like Im not keeping track. Im butting heads against the whole dang lot of you, and doing good considering I dont take this so seriously... I plan to start talking without inuendo, and plays on words. Without too much speculation that will certainly cause ridicule...

But check this out. When I mentioned Mathews moving to ILB, it was ruthless. When I mentioned Gordon being drafted at #30, it was ruthless. Then 2 weeks later ESPN has a big article on the possibility. The D-line debate is key also. I am currently taking heat STILL for my prediction that when we get 3 dominant D-linemen and some legit depth, our defense will be great again. Not just again, but thats what is missing from the game plan. Talent is a legit excuse. The guys we drafted didnt pan out. But now that we stole Guion, and Daniels has come into his own. The blue chip center piece Raji. I dont think. I know! He is going to come out and destroy the trenches!!! The whole defense is going to look 100% better with this front 3! I know this.

The 26 sack from the D-line comment that i took HUGE heat for... Raji playing dominant and getting 6, would open up Mathews and the DE's BIG TIME! Peppers will be a back breaker. And the secondary good enough to stop any hemmoraging of yards. Daniels could easily add 4 sacks to his average when considering he will be a 3rd or 4th priority at this point. And Guion coming from End with those other 4 swarming? He will be destroying the single team consistantly. This group is capable of hitting that arrogant 26 number..... You all mock and pick saying we only need Suh ad Watt to accomplish this. With Suh and Watt I would expect 50 sacks from the line with this defense backing them up... Its all relative...

And I would appreciate the respect that you all want from me. Treat me with respect, and you will not have any problem...

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

When I come here to see who replied to my comments from the days before. I consistantly see this crew coming at me "Nit Picking"... I come this morning(like every day) , Post #36/7 disagree fine, but then conforming to the "Eli is crazy theme", and Jack hashing up proof of my craziness from weeks old posts where they got me on a arrogant slip of the tounge... In my book thats called picking a fight. I will stand behind my original comments. I will not fold to the high school click stuff going on. And I will act like a jerk when faced with a jerk. Note all the posts where I come here to talk football.... Note those.

Wimm being a lawyer comment. Let me tell you about me. I am always coming up with predictions and spins on the game. Some are good and some are bad. Im ok with being wrong. But Im right more than Im wrong. Wimm and the click on the other hand simply states the status quo, of what already happened. Counts it as fact until him and his council decide they see the Packers doing something else. They do not have an opinion. they do not go out on a limb. I come straight out and asked what he thought of Raji. After all this negative sentiment... And he comes back with a lawyer answer. Completely non-commital. THATS the problem. The guys that do stuff make mistakes sometimes... If you are always right, you arent doing anything... He just left the back door open to jump back on the Raji bandwagon mid-season. I want an answer after all this.

But Eli, this is my point. You keep rehashing threads to make your point. You admit that some of your opinions are predictions and spin offs etc, where TJV and Wimm tend to quote facts that can and frequently are provable. There is NOTHING wrong with you expressing your thoughts and ideas on here, but you are going out on a limb, and they have the right to call you on it.
You then get very defensive about it. I put a generic SMH meme up as I`m getting a headache keeping an eye on this and you take it as a personal attack on YOU. Where did I single you out for the Meme ???
You are completely entitled to express your opinions on here within reason, but as I said, so are they. I`ve spoken to you before and was civil as far as I recall, and gave you advice but you choose not to accept it. I can`t help that, it`s your choice but just a point.

(1) Please don`t accuse me of siding with ANYBODY. I`m a moderator, and I am obliged to monitor conversations like this and I think I do it fairly too.

 

[TJV]

But again the debate was very deep and dynamic... It stemmed from the fact that I believe the 3-4 depends on a dominant front 3 doing the job of 4 in a 4-3. To play otherwise is conceding the trenches to their line, and depending on trickery. Thats how the 3-4 works many times, for Gods sake I know. But I believe the 3 up front should be dominant and in for the nickel package as well... This was a whole heated topic in itself.

Now the fact that the dime in previous years had 1 D-lineman and 4 LBs. In practice that day there were 2 D-linemen. Thats a difference. I claimed for a bit there was 3, and was wrong. But there was 1 more than usual. AND THAT is what you chose to ignore. I was wrong. But in a sense that the talent of the D-line being much higher this year, we now have 2 D-linemen in the dime... It speaks volumes to this whole debate!!!

The debate with you is not deep and dynamic because you lack a basic understanding of Capers’ defensive schemes. As captainWIMM and others have exhaustively explained to you, the OLBs in Capers D act as DEs on many plays. So the 3-4 doesn’t concede the LOS or depend on trickery. The “fact that the dime in previous years had 1 DL and 4 LBs” is not a fact. It’s wrong. That’s why it was ignored because once again you posted something without knowing the facts.

Here is a primer on Capers’ defensive alignments written two off seasons ago. Note the number of DL in each alignment.
Dom Caper’s basic nickel package is a 2-4-5 formation:
http://allgbp.com/2013/06/26/packers-playbook-part-3-the-nickel-defense/

“In Dom Capers’ defense, the basic dime package is a 2-3-6 formation.”
http://allgbp.com/2013/06/28/packers-playbook-part-5-the-dime-defense/

The Psycho has one down lineman:
http://allgbp.com/2013/06/27/packers-playbook-part-4-the-psycho-defense/

The quarter and half dollar are prevent defenses that have one down linemen:
http://allgbp.com/2013/07/01/packers-playbook-part-7-the-prevent-defenses/

Also check the diagrams for the nickel and dime. You’ll see two OLB at or very near the LOS. That looks very much like a 4-man DL, doesn’t it? You may not want to admit it, but you need to learn this if you want to post intelligently on Capers’ D. There’s nothing wrong with you not knowing it, but why not learn it?

 

[TJV]

VJacx, I say things before people thought about them. You say I dont think about them? Does the rambling on of months worth of debate sound like Im not keeping track. Im butting heads against the whole dang lot of you, and doing good considering I dont take this so seriously... I plan to start talking without inuendo, and plays on words. Without too much speculation that will certainly cause ridicule...

I assume you directed this to me in spite of your addressing it to “VJacx”. (It's not a big deal but my user name on this forum is a tribute to Jack Vainisi, my name isn't Jack. TJV is an easy shorthand.) IMO so far what you have posted you think is outside the box hasn't contributed much to this board. The reason you’re butting heads against “everyone” is you lack understanding and so far have refused to learn as noted in the above post. If you were really onto something, don’t you think at least a handful of others would join the argument on your side? This is not (thankfully) a homogenous group.

But check this out. When I mentioned Mathews moving to ILB, it was ruthless. When I mentioned Gordon being drafted at #30, it was ruthless.

You have implied you mentioned Matthews moving inside before it happened:

I have the guts to speak outside the box BEFORE it happens.... Seems you guys had the same thing to say when I mentioned Mathews moving to the middle last year around this time...

The fact is you didn’t “have the guts to speak outside the box BEFORE it happens” regarding Matthews moving inside. In late July of last year, Ogsponge quoted an ESPN TC report which included: “Clay lined up all over the field including sometimes stacked with Peppers…” You responded, “Clay and Peppers stacked??? I didnt even think of that...” I quoted that part of the Ogsponge post and wrote, “On ESPN radio yesterday they talked about every NFL team and when it was the Packers' turn, Demovsky said Clay lined up inside as much as outside.” You then posted:

Oh dang.......Clay playing Middle, covering sideline to sideline... Letting the Larger beasts like Peppers, Neal, Perry and Mulumba bring the power from the outside... Clay could blitz through any weak looking gap, and gather 150+ tackles without trying.

You commented on a report of it already happening. Later that day you started a thread “Matthews the new ILB” https://www.packerforum.com/threads/mathews-the-new-ilb.53357/

So you weren’t “thinking outside the box”, McCarthy and Capers were. And go look at that thread and come back here and show us examples of “ruthlessness” by others directed at you in that thread. And BTW, Gordon got picked at #15 as many "reality boxers" predicted he wouldn't make it to #30. And no Packers fan is against improving the talent on the DL, but the Packers starting DL will not record 26 sacks. That’s unrealistic and BTW unnecessary for a Super Bowl winning team.

And I would appreciate the respect that you all want from me. Treat me with respect, and you will not have any problem...

If you want respect, I suggest you post with respect. IMO that includes having the facts at hand: Posts that misstate or ignore facts aren’t deserving of respect IMO.

 

[adambr2]

He snubbed 8 mil a year because he thought he could get more hey? I'd like to see a link to this fact... I would speculate from what I seen, he thought he could get a job as a 4-3 DT, and the offer didnt come in. I dont think it was because of the talent. It was because the NFL family of owners have a respect /fear of the GB family tree. You dont scalp our players... He took the "prove it" deal because he didnt get the offer he had hoped...

Seriously, this is why you are usually the common denominator in pissing matches.

I can't "prove" to you that Raji turned down $8M with $20M guaranteed because he thought he could do better. Obviously there is not a link to a quote from Raji where he says "I thought I could get a better offer than $8M a year." Generally, players turn down offers because they want more money. I'm certain if he knew he would have ended up with a 1 year prove-it deal, he would have taken the original offer, but I'm sure you're prepared to tell me that he was prepared to leave $16M in guaranteed money on the table just to get out of Green Bay. Here are some quotes from Rotoworld on Raji over the last couple years: http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nfl/5210/bj-raji

Raji can earn "up to" $4 million. It's a good deal for the former No. 9 overall pick, who is arguably a minimum-salary player at this stage of his career. He can't stay healthy and hasn't put good play on tape in a while.

Raji continues to rue the November 2013 day he turned down a multi-year contract that reportedly contained $20 million total and $8 million guaranteed.

Raji has drawn no known interest elsewhere, so staying in Green Bay for now seems his likeliest endgame.

Raji has zero sacks over his last 39 games (including playoffs), has zero forced fumbles in his five-year career and graded out dead last against the run among 3-4 ends in PFF's 2013 grades

Former Rams GM Billy Devaney referred to free agent DT B.J. Raji as "pretty much just a guy."

Everyone who watched BJ Raji play football in 2013 saw that he was a terrible player that year. It was easy to speculate that he wasn't going to make much in 2014. Yet instead of just admitting the obvious, you fabricate some bizarre theory that basically, 31 other teams were afraid of the Packer family mafia and didn't want to upset us by making Raji an offer. Strange how that didn't work out for us with Williams or House this off-season.

Seriously man, you can't even possibly believe that theory. Raji didn't make much in 2014 because he didn't play worth a crap in 2013. It's not complicated.

 

[adambr2]

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[Deleted member 6794]

I am always coming up with predictions and spins on the game. Some are good and some are bad. Im ok with being wrong. But Im right more than Im wrong.

No, you're not.

Wimm and the click on the other hand simply states the status quo, of what already happened. Counts it as fact until him and his council decide they see the Packers doing something else. They do not have an opinion. they do not go out on a limb. I come straight out and asked what he thought of Raji. After all this negative sentiment... And he comes back with a lawyer answer. Completely non-commital. THATS the problem. The guys that do stuff make mistakes sometimes... If you are always right, you arent doing anything... He just left the back door open to jump back on the Raji bandwagon mid-season. I want an answer after all this.

The reason I don't come up with a prediction for Raji's stats in 2015 is because I'm not able to forecast what is going to happen. I'm well aware of that and perfectly fine with admitting that I don't have a clue about what is going to happen during the 2015 season. Even if I would make an accurate prediction it would be pure luck.

The problem with your approach is that you act like you know what's going to happen while everyone who has been following this forum for some time, aside of you, is well aware of the fact that you don't even understand the simple basics of the Packers 3-4 defense.

 

[OldSchool101]

I am so glad I am on vacation. You guys just forced me to surrender to another Piña Colada

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

When I come here to see who replied to my comments from the days before. I consistantly see this crew coming at me "Nit Picking"... I come this morning(like every day) , Post #36/7 disagree fine, but then conforming to the "Eli is crazy theme", and Jack hashing up proof of my craziness from weeks old posts where they got me on a arrogant slip of the tounge... In my book thats called picking a fight. I will stand behind my original comments. I will not fold to the high school click stuff going on. And I will act like a jerk when faced with a jerk. Note all the posts where I come here to talk football.... Note those.

Wimm being a lawyer comment. Let me tell you about me. I am always coming up with predictions and spins on the game. Some are good and some are bad. Im ok with being wrong. But Im right more than Im wrong. Wimm and the click on the other hand simply states the status quo, of what already happened. Counts it as fact until him and his council decide they see the Packers doing something else. They do not have an opinion. they do not go out on a limb. I come straight out and asked what he thought of Raji. After all this negative sentiment... And he comes back with a lawyer answer. Completely non-commital. THATS the problem. The guys that do stuff make mistakes sometimes... If you are always right, you arent doing anything... He just left the back door open to jump back on the Raji bandwagon mid-season. I want an answer after all this.

You're right Eli. WIMM and his buddies are not brave enough to go out on a limb. He can't be a lawyer though because that requires more than a GRE. And if you do go out on a limb here, and for pete's sake why wouldn't you, then the girls come up with a bunch of useless stats. And if you waste time pointing out their error, they cherry-pick new stats. It's a waste of time Eli. You have too much intellect for these puerile ex high- school cheerleaders.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

When I come here to see who replied to my comments from the days before. I consistantly see this crew coming at me "Nit Picking"... I come this morning(like every day) , Post #36/7 disagree fine, but then conforming to the "Eli is crazy theme", and Jack hashing up proof of my craziness from weeks old posts where they got me on a arrogant slip of the tounge... In my book thats called picking a fight. I will stand behind my original comments. I will not fold to the high school click stuff going on. And I will act like a jerk when faced with a jerk. Note all the posts where I come here to talk football.... Note those.

Wimm being a lawyer comment. Let me tell you about me. I am always coming up with predictions and spins on the game. Some are good and some are bad. Im ok with being wrong. But Im right more than Im wrong. Wimm and the click on the other hand simply states the status quo, of what already happened. Counts it as fact until him and his council decide they see the Packers doing something else. They do not have an opinion. they do not go out on a limb. I come straight out and asked what he thought of Raji. After all this negative sentiment... And he comes back with a lawyer answer. Completely non-commital. THATS the problem. The guys that do stuff make mistakes sometimes... If you are always right, you arent doing anything... He just left the back door open to jump back on the Raji bandwagon mid-season. I want an answer after all this.

Oh and Eli, consistent with my earlier post, I'll make a prediction to give the "nit pickers" you so aptly describe something to have fits about: the winner of SB 50 will have a defense ranked in the top 5. This is to back up my often not-picked assertion that it usually takes an elite team to win the SB.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

You're right Eli. WIMM and his buddies are not brave enough to go out on a limb. He can't be a lawyer though because that requires more than a GRE. And if you do go out on a limb here, and for pete's sake why wouldn't you, then the girls come up with a bunch of useless stats. And if you waste time pointing out their error, they cherry-pick new stats. It's a waste of time Eli. You have too much intellect for these puerile ex high- school cheerleaders.

Joe, this is uncalled for and bordering on personal. Please keep it civil.

 

[Half Empty]

Oh, come on. It's the dead zone, there's no real football to discuss, there are lots more personal comments than a person not backing up his opinions, and as you say for everyone "Don't like what I'm saying? Put Me On Ignore". I don't remember if it's earlier in this thread or another one, but I think this is a good example of a pretty tame jab at someone that should have a much longer leash. However, that's why you guys get the big bucks , and the dude is now on notice.

 

[TJV]

...I'll make a prediction to give the "nit pickers" you so aptly describe something to have fits about: the winner of SB 50 will have a defense ranked in the top 5. This is to back up my often not-picked assertion that it usually takes an elite team to win the SB.

The Super Bowl winner may well have an elite D, if you look at the last 10 champions, there’s about a 50/50 chance. BTW, how about defining what you mean by “elite defense”? Or, do you accept my definition?

It’s difficult to know whether or not your last two posts were meant to be humorous but IMO they are funny. If they were meant to be, ignore this post. If not are you really whining about my posting stats that show of the last 10 Super Bowl winners, 6 did not have elite defenses? And in what way is that a “useless stat” with regard to your assertion that teams with elite Ds usually win the Super Bowl? How is that stat “cherry picked”? BTW, I didn’t see your post “pointing out my error”.

It's a waste of time Eli. You have too much intellect for these puerile ex high- school cheerleaders.

This is comedy gold. Don’t forget the reminder to tip your waitresses.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Oh, come on. It's the dead zone, there's no real football to discuss, there are lots more personal comments than a person not backing up his opinions, and as you say for everyone "Don't like what I'm saying? Put Me On Ignore". I don't remember if it's earlier in this thread or another one, but I think this is a good example of a pretty tame jab at someone that should have a much longer leash. However, that's why you guys get the big bucks , and the dude is now on notice.

If we`re on big bucks, I hope my cheque gets here soon. NOBODY is on notice, I asked him to try and keep it civil was all.

 

[Half Empty]

Good example of the subjectivity which necessarily drives most of the discussions/arguments on the board. By 'on notice', I meant that he'd been told to play nice, that's all. You, understandably as a mod, took that to mean he'd been warned he could be punished. Sort of like defining a great draft class or...