Packer Receivers in 2024

[Thirteen Below]

When the Bears and Packers played the last game of the season, there was one game separating us. Yes GB has a very good roster I just recommend y’all don’t sleep on ours.
I honestly believe of da Bears top three wide receivers any of them would be the number one WR on your team...

Oh, I don't think anyone in the league is sleeping on the Bears at this point - least of all, their biggest rival, 200 miles up I-94/I-43. Believeme, we hear ya coming.

We may make a few remarks about "same ol' Bears" (and we've seen your team go flaccid when the action starts so many times that there's a basis for that), but we know very well that Chicago is going to be a much better team than they have been for quite a few years.

We're just waaay short of convinced that Wiliams is going to be your Moses, the hero your team needs to overcome the mediocre coaching and mangement decisions. Because even if you have the 5 best WRs in the NFL, someone still needs to deliver the ball to them.

If Caleb is above average, we are a very, very dangerous team but we will know soon enough.

Which brings us to Williams.

The entire future of your team over the next 4-8 years depends on him. He may deliver, he may not, we have no way of knowing which way he'll go. He has some excellent qualities, but some red flags.

His attitude is the first thing that jumps out at me, and it ain't a positive clue. Together with his dad, he tried hard to circumvent the NFL collective bargaining agreement by trying to find some way to change the rules and give him an actual ownership stake in the franchise itself. When that went nowhere, he and Dad screened potential agents on the basis of what ideas they had on how to do an end-run around the contract structures for rookies, and find some sort of backdoor where he'd get more money that the rules allowed.

He blew off the combine, refusing to throw or do any physical tests, saying that teams already had all the game film they needed to see how great he is. Teams who interviewed him said that he approached the meetings with a lackadaisical nonchalance, "as though it was a real estate open house and he was looking for a property he liked." Some said it seemed obvious that he wasn't taking the interviews seriously because he knew he was already going #1 anyway.

The month before the draft, one of his future Chicago teammates were publicy warning him his attitude needed an upgrade. Jaylon Johnson said, "You just humble your stuff coming into the building. You can’t bring that Hollywood stuff into the building, especially with guys who played this game at a high level for consecutive years in the league. What you did in college, the Hollywood, it’s like 'Nah, you gotta prove yourself."

I don't think I've ever seen a veteran player say something like that about an incoming rookie, and it's not a good look.

I've seen some people already comparing him to Brett Favre, which is not a completely outrageous thing to say - he has the bazooka arm and the gunslinger mentality, but he has so far not shown that he can keep a cool head under pressure, and is quick to scratch the called play and improvise, going for a potential big play rather than take the sure thing for shorter yardag. His release time is not as bad as Fields' but still slow at 3.31 seconds. If he doesn't learn how to get past those things (if Chicago's coaching staff, which has never developed an elite QB, can't teach him patience and displine), he's going to have a short career with 3 or 4 teams.

Additonally, his footwork is inconsistent and often just plain awful, and his pocket discipline depends on whatever pops into his head on any given play. Your team's future depends on him developing his head talent to the same level as his arm talent.

I'm glad you're pumped about your team, and you deserve to be. You've earned that right. But there's nothing anyone can say about Caleb that wasn't also said about Ryan Leaf, Johnny Manziel, JaMarcus Russel... Carson Palmer... Alex Smith.... Rick Mirer, Tim Couch... Akili Smith, Vince Young, Byron Leftwich... Mark Sanchez... Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Blake Bortals, Ryan Tannehil... RG III... not all #1 or #2 picks, but they all went Top 10 and were touted as the saviors of their franchise.

In the 30 years between 1993 and 2023, 39 quarterbacks have gone Top 10, projected future franchise QBs. Over half of them were busts. And with Caleb's attitude problems, ego, and lack of discipline, I can see an awful lot of things that can easily go wrong.

So... yeah; I'm happy for you guys that you have something to be xcited about. But the Magic 8-Ball says, "whoa, maybe not so fast here... "

 

[Heyjoe4]

Oh, I don't think anyone in the league is sleeping on the Bears at this point - least of all, their biggest rival, 200 miles up I-94/I-43. Believeme, we hear ya coming.

We may make a few remarks about "same ol' Bears" (and we've seen your team go flaccid when the action starts so many times that there's a basis for that), but we know very well that Chicago is going to be a much better team than they have been for quite a few years.

We're just waaay short of convinced that Wiliams is going to be your Moses, the hero your team needs to overcome the mediocre coaching and mangement decisions. Because even if you have the 5 best WRs in the NFL, someone still needs to deliver the ball to them.

Which brings us to Williams.

The entire future of your team over the next 4-8 years depends on him. He may deliver, he may not, we have no way of knowing which way he'll go. He has some excellent qualities, but some red flags.

His attitude is the first thing that jumps out at me, and it ain't a positive clue. Together with his dad, he tried hard to circumvent the NFL collective bargaining agreement by trying to find some way to change the rules and give him an actual ownership stake in the franchise itself. When that went nowhere, he and Dad screened potential agents on the basis of what ideas they had on how to do an end-run around the contract structures for rookies, and find some sort of backdoor where he'd get more money that the rules allowed.

He blew off the combine, refusing to throw or do any physical tests, saying that teams already had all the game film they needed to see how great he is. Teams who interviewed him said that he approached the meetings with a lackadaisical nonchalance, "as though it was a real estate open house and he was looking for a property he liked." Some said it seemed obvious that he wasn't taking the interviews seriously because he knew he was already going #1 anyway.

The month before the draft, one of his future Chicago teammates were publicy warning him his attitude needed an upgrade. Jaylon Johnson said, "You just humble your stuff coming into the building. You can’t bring that Hollywood stuff into the building, especially with guys who played this game at a high level for consecutive years in the league. What you did in college, the Hollywood, it’s like 'Nah, you gotta prove yourself."

I don't think I've ever seen a veteran player say something like that about an incoming rookie, and it's not a good look.

I've seen some people already comparing him to Brett Favre, which is not a completely outrageous thing to say - he has the bazooka arm and the gunslinger mentality, but he has so far not shown that he can keep a cool head under pressure, and is quick to scratch the called play and improvise, going for a potential big play rather than take the sure thing for shorter yardag. His release time is not as bad as Fields' but still slow at 3.31 seconds. If he doesn't learn how to get past those things (if Chicago's coaching staff, which has never developed an elite QB, can't teach him patience and displine), he's going to have a short career with 3 or 4 teams.

Additonally, his footwork is inconsistent and often just plain awful, and his pocket discipline depends on whatever pops into his head on any given play. Your team's future depends on him developing his head talent to the same level as his arm talent.

I'm glad you're pumped about your team, and you deserve to be. You've earned that right. But there's nothing anyone can say about Caleb that wasn't also said about Ryan Leaf, Johnny Manziel, JaMarcus Russel... Carson Palmer... Alex Smith.... Rick Mirer, Tim Couch... Akili Smith, Vince Young, Byron Leftwich... Mark Sanchez... Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Blake Bortals, Ryan Tannehil... RG III... not all #1 or #2 picks, but they all went Top 10 and were touted as the saviors of their franchise.

In the 30 years between 1993 and 2023, 39 quarterbacks have gone Top 10, projected future franchise QBs. Over half of them were busts. And with Caleb's attitude problems, ego, and lack of discipline, I can see an awful lot of things that can easily go wrong.

So... yeah; I'm happy for you guys that you have something to be xcited about. But the Magic 8-Ball says, "whoa, maybe not so fast here... "

C'mon 13! You're taking all the air out of our friend Caleb's balloon.

Hmmm, I didn't know these things about Williams and the games he and his Dad tried to play with agents and teams. Assuming it's true, it's not a good look. And it is very naive to be looking for an ownership cut. No team would agree to that from a rookie, or anyone I guess.

But the stat you referenced that threw me was the 3.31 release time. That seems very slow, even for a college QB. Is that right, and how does that compare to other top 10 draft picks? The questions are rhetorical. It just seems that 3.31 seconds is very slow.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yeah that was the drop heard all around the Packer world. There is just no way around it, Watson (or any WR) has to make that catch. It was one of the best passes Rodgers ever threw, and that's saying a lot.

I don't think that's still bothering Watson. Surely he'd like to put together a solid, 1,000 yard plus season as much as we want him to. I hope his route tree keeps expanding and they find different ways to get him the ball. Jordy Nelson turned a lot of 5-10 yard passes into big gains. Watson is capable of the same. And developing a short game will make his long threat easier.

I like that thought. Find ways to get Christian some more plays on crossing routes or slants or away from coverage where he can use his speed to get under the ball and burn it.

Sorry if I threw you guys off talking on topic! Just busting some chops. It’s hard not to spar with a Bears fan it’s so unfair. lol

 

[Thirteen Below]

C'mon 13! You're taking all the air out of our friend Caleb's balloon.

Yeah, I feel kind of badly popping his bubble.Probably won'tb take too much of the wind out of his sails, though - he seems indefatigably optimistic.

Hmmm, I didn't know these things about Williams and the games he and his Dad tried to play with agents and teams. Assuming it's true, it's not a good look. And it is very naive to be looking for an ownership cut. No team would agree to that from a rookie, or anyone I guess.

The NFL woudn't allow it; it's completely illegal under the rules. Rodgers briefly tried the same thing with the Jets last year, and the idea got shot dead in the street real quick.

I couldn't find any one article that listed all the red flags scouts and analysts saw (or thought they saw), but I did find 3 articles that (between them) listed almost everything I mentioned.

There are also articles I didn't link, that said these things but also added that Williams initially demanded that part of his salary be paid in forgivable loans, which the NFL said no chance. He then asked if he could be paid through an LLC - as a corporation, rather than as an individual, so hs would bne taxed at a much klower rate. This is legal, and it's a trick my wife often uses on her contract gigs. The forgivable loan angle is legal too, but the NFL said to forget it.

NFL rumors: Caleb Williams is looking for 'loophole' in rookie wage scale

NIL star Caleb Williams may challenge the NFL rookie wage scale which could make the Bears or other teams wary of taking him in the draft.

clutchpoints.com

Former NFL Scout Puts '100% Chance' on Caleb Williams Being a Bust

Find out why a former scout has given USC QB Caleb Williams a 100% chance of being a bust in the NFL.

firstroundmock.com

Insider addresses alleged Caleb Williams red flags

Despite being the consensus choice to be the top pick in the upcoming draft, Williams hasn't escaped some pointing to potential red flags.

www.yardbarker.com

But the stat you referenced that threw me was the 3.31 release time. That seems very slow, even for a college QB. Is that right, and how does that compare to other top 10 draft picks? The questions are rhetorical. It just seems that 3.31 seconds is very slow.

I couldn't find anywhere that listed the exact times for each quarterback, so I couldn't directly compare. But DraftBuzz ranked the prospects on a 0-100 scale, on two pages. The first page showed the Top 20 pospects, and Caleb did not make that page. I keep trying to pull up Page 2, but it refuses to load. The bottom player on that 1-20 list was given a score of 73 for his release time; by comparison, Bo Nix scored 90, and Drake Maye, Penix, Daniels, Milton, and even Reed and Rattler were in the 80s.

But if you look at Caleb's personal profile, it shows he scored 73 - behind even a couple of guys who weren't even drafted (by comnparison, Michael Pratt scored 79 on his personal profile, and was ranked #15 in that category).

QUARTERBACKS WITH THE QUICKEST RELEASE 2024 NFL DRAFT - Page 1

QUARTERBACKS WITH THE QUICKEST RELEASE 2024 NFL DRAFT - Page 1

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

So, yeah... clearly tons of potential, and he could be a home run. But he's got some fundamentals that are far short of NFL level, and we'll see how he's doing wiith that in a week and a half, when the Bears play the Texans.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah, I feel kind of badly popping his bubble.Probably won'tb take too much of the wind out of his sails, though - he seems indefatigably optimistic.


The NFL woudn't allow it; it's completely illegal under the rules. Rodgers briefly tried the same thing with the Jets last year, and the idea got shot dead in the street real quick.

I couldn't find any one article that listed all the red flags scouts and analysts saw (or thought they saw), but I did find 3 articles that (between them) listed almost everything I mentioned.

There are also articles I didn't link, that said these things but also added that Williams initially demanded that part of his salary be paid in forgivable loans, which the NFL said no chance. He then asked if he could be paid through an LLC - as a corporation, rather than as an individual, so hs would bne taxed at a much klower rate. This is legal, and it's a trick my wife often uses on her contract gigs. The forgivable loan angle is legal too, but the NFL said to forget it.

NFL rumors: Caleb Williams is looking for 'loophole' in rookie wage scale

NIL star Caleb Williams may challenge the NFL rookie wage scale which could make the Bears or other teams wary of taking him in the draft.

clutchpoints.com

Former NFL Scout Puts '100% Chance' on Caleb Williams Being a Bust

Find out why a former scout has given USC QB Caleb Williams a 100% chance of being a bust in the NFL.

firstroundmock.com

Insider addresses alleged Caleb Williams red flags

Despite being the consensus choice to be the top pick in the upcoming draft, Williams hasn't escaped some pointing to potential red flags.

www.yardbarker.com

I couldn't find anywhere that listed the exact times for each quarterback, so I couldn't directly compare. But DraftBuzz ranked the prospects on a 0-100 scale, on two pages. The first page showed the Top 20 pospects, and Caleb did not make that page. I keep trying to pull up Page 2, but it refuses to load. The bottom player on that 1-20 list was given a score of 73 for his release time; by comparison, Bo Nix scored 90, and Drake Maye, Penix, Daniels, Milton, and even Reed and Rattler were in the 80s.

But if you look at Caleb's personal profile, it shows he scored 73 - behind even a couple of guys who weren't even drafted (by comnparison, Michael Pratt scored 79 on his personal profile, and was ranked #15 in that category).

QUARTERBACKS WITH THE QUICKEST RELEASE 2024 NFL DRAFT - Page 1

QUARTERBACKS WITH THE QUICKEST RELEASE 2024 NFL DRAFT - Page 1

www.nfldraftbuzz.com

So, yeah... clearly tons of potential, and he could be a home run. But he's got some fundamentals that are far short of NFL level, and we'll see how he's doing wiith that in a week and a half, when the Bears play the Texans.

Thanks for the additional info 13. A lot of red or maybe pink flags, both actually. He certainly shows a "me first" mentality, and we saw what happened when Rodgers went to that dark side. It's concerning. If he plays lights out, then no one will probably care. But if he struggles, he's left his detractors and certainly the sports media with ammo.

 

[tynimiller]

four weeks in and the Love injury really helped Reed due to gameplans can incorporate him into touches easier...

Targets
Reed and Wicks 22
Doubs 20
Kraft 17
Jacobs 10
Watson 8
Musgrave 7

Receptions
Reed 17
Doubs 12
Kraft 12
Wicks 8
Jacobs 7
Watson 5
Musgrave 5

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Only 8 catches on 22 targets? Eek.

 

[tynimiller]

Only 8 catches on 22 targets? Eek.

Yeah 4 on attributed as drops by most places. I've seen 3 and 5 as well but concensus is 4

Reed / Doubs and Kraft all have 2 mostly...but I have Reed at 3 personally but I also have Wicks at 5 and Doubs at 1 I believe.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yeah 4 on attributed as drops by most places. I've seen 3 and 5 as well but concensus is 4

Reed / Doubs and Kraft all have 2 mostly...but I have Reed at 3 personally but I also have Wicks at 5 and Doubs at 1 I believe.

Seemed like Wicks had a lot of drops against Philly. He seems to have been much better since.

And whatever the numbers say, Doubs seems like he can catch anything.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

Are the other 9-10 overthrows? I’m curious bc of the large disparity.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

And who has the most misses Jordan or Malik?

 

[tynimiller]

And who has the most misses Jordan or Malik?

lol give the amount of passes thrown easily Love

 

[Heyjoe4]

lol give the amount of passes thrown easily Love

Yeah I mean, with all respect, it's a silly comparison question from Caleb. Willis played an entirely different role than Love. Execute the run-heavy game plan one week, get outside and execute QB runs the next week, and complete the limited passes thrown in between. Oh, and don't turn the ball over.

I thought MLF's gameplay and Willis' execution were near perfect in those games. And he did hit some deep passes. Mostly though, he didn't have any turnovers. Pretty amazing really and a bit of a relief as far as the backup QB situation.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Are the other 9-10 overthrows? I’m curious bc of the large disparity.

With all respect Caleb, Love and Willis play two very different gameplans. It's just not a question with a meaningful answer.

 

[OldSchool101]

And who has the most misses Jordan or Malik?

Pretty easy. At one point Malik was leading the league in completion % at 73.5% (albeit in small sample of 2 games). ‘Skins Jayden Daniels (83.1%!) passed him though THAT kid is red hot.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

Yeah I mean, with all respect, it's a silly comparison question from Caleb. Willis played an entirely different role than Love. Execute the run-heavy game plan one week, get outside and execute QB runs the next week, and complete the limited passes thrown in between. Oh, and don't turn the ball over.

I thought MLF's gameplay and Willis' execution were near perfect in those games. And he did hit some deep passes. Mostly though, he didn't have any turnovers. Pretty amazing really and a bit of a relief as far as the backup QB situation.

Seriously guys….. I guess it would seem silly to guys who have had almost 4 decades of Hall of Fame quarterback play but believe it or not other teams have receivers that have dropped anywhere from 5 to 10 passes and two or three games so I didn’t know if the guy with what was it nine catches on 22 targets minus the drops did it all happen in one or two games where Malik was throwing to him or did it happen in the first two games when love was throwing?

My bad though……I thought it was a reasonable question.

 

[tynimiller]

Seriously guys….. I guess it would seem silly to guys who have had almost 4 decades of Hall of Fame quarterback play but believe it or not other teams have receivers that have dropped anywhere from 5 to 10 passes and two or three games so I didn’t know if the guy with what was it nine catches on 22 targets minus the drops did it all happen in one or two games where Malik was throwing to him or did it happen in the first two games when love was throwing?

My bad though……I thought it was a reasonable question.

Crazy stats incoming for you (SHOCKED ME PERSONALLY)...drops by Packers and Bears historically as a TEAM per pro football reference (advanced receiving stats they've had since 2018):

2023 - Packers 29 Bears 19
2022 - Packers 41 Bears 18
2021 - Packers 15 Bears 28
2020 - Packers 27 Bears 18
2019 - Packers 24 Bears 32
2018 - Packers 31 Bears 13
Now however let's look at drop percentages on targets as attempts matter:

2023 - Packers 5.1% Bears 4.0%
2022 - Packers 7.6% Bears 5.0%
2021 - Packers 2.6% Bears 5.3%
2020 - Packers 5.4% Bears 3.0%
2019 - Packers 5.8% Bears 5.7%
2018 - Packers 5.0% Bears 2.6%

Bears WRs had a higher drop rate only once in the last five years....I would have NEVER guessed this.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

Crazy stats incoming for you (SHOCKED ME PERSONALLY)...drops by Packers and Bears historically as a TEAM per pro football reference (advanced receiving stats they've had since 2018):

2023 - Packers 29 Bears 19
2022 - Packers 41 Bears 18
2021 - Packers 15 Bears 28
2020 - Packers 27 Bears 18
2019 - Packers 24 Bears 32
2018 - Packers 31 Bears 13
Now however let's look at drop percentages on targets as attempts matter:

2023 - Packers 5.1% Bears 4.0%
2022 - Packers 7.6% Bears 5.0%
2021 - Packers 2.6% Bears 5.3%
2020 - Packers 5.4% Bears 3.0%
2019 - Packers 5.8% Bears 5.7%
2018 - Packers 5.0% Bears 2.6%

Bears WRs had a higher drop rate only once in the last five years....I would have NEVER guessed this.

I can only guess it’s bc y’all have thrown the ball probably double what we did in a season the last 35 years.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Seriously guys….. I guess it would seem silly to guys who have had almost 4 decades of Hall of Fame quarterback play but believe it or not other teams have receivers that have dropped anywhere from 5 to 10 passes and two or three games so I didn’t know if the guy with what was it nine catches on 22 targets minus the drops did it all happen in one or two games where Malik was throwing to him or did it happen in the first two games when love was throwing?

My bad though……I thought it was a reasonable question.

I think it's a reasonable question if Love and Willis are running the same game plan. The game plan For Wilis was unlike anything that would be run for Love. It might be better to look at WR drop rates with both QBs, but even that's not apples to apples and again, because of different game plans.

And I'm pretty sure that when Willis was passing, the plays probably had a pretty good chance to be successful.

 

[OldSchool101]

Speaking of which. They held Romeo out today. Should know better on the Friday report what’s up there. That’s our WR2,WR3 out. It didn’t list the injury just said he stayed in Hutson Center with Watson etc.

On a positive. Alexander practiced in pads today. Looks like both Valentine and Alexander are going to be good on Sunday.

 

[tynimiller]

I can only guess it’s bc y’all have thrown the ball probably double what we did in a season the last 35 years.

I can grab that and I was shocked here too as I thought you guys would have a LOT less, but it wasn't crazy low...just overall targets:

2023 - Packers 561 Bears 477
2022 - Packers 540 Bears 359
2021 - Packers 570 Bears 524
2020 - Packers 501 Bears 596
2019 - Packers 542 Bears 566
2018 - Packers 615 Bears 503

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I think it's a reasonable question if Love and Willis are running the same game plan. The game plan For Wilis was unlike anything that would be run for Love. It might be better to look at WR drop rates with both QBs, but even that's not apples to apples and again, because of different game plans.

And I'm pretty sure that when Willis was passing, the plays probably had a pretty good chance to be successful.

Gotta remember….not packers fan so don’t watch games especially if Bears play at same time so I don’t have any idea how many times either threw or what/how diff the game plan would be except you would expect more run w/ a back-up but I didn’t know so I asked. That’s all.

 

[Calebs Revenge]

I’m done….im not trying to take over the thread.

 

[Poppa San]

Crazy stats incoming for you (SHOCKED ME PERSONALLY)...drops by Packers and Bears historically as a TEAM per pro football reference (advanced receiving stats they've had since 2018):

2023 - Packers 29 Bears 19
2022 - Packers 41 Bears 18
2021 - Packers 15 Bears 28
2020 - Packers 27 Bears 18
2019 - Packers 24 Bears 32
2018 - Packers 31 Bears 13
Now however let's look at drop percentages on targets as attempts matter:

2023 - Packers 5.1% Bears 4.0%
2022 - Packers 7.6% Bears 5.0%
2021 - Packers 2.6% Bears 5.3%
2020 - Packers 5.4% Bears 3.0%
2019 - Packers 5.8% Bears 5.7%
2018 - Packers 5.0% Bears 2.6%

Bears WRs had a higher drop rate only once in the last five years....I would have NEVER guessed this.

Wasn't that the year Rodgers only threw to Adams?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I’m done….im not trying to take over the thread.

No you're ok. You explained why you asked the question and that cleared it up. We all do that here because all we have are words, and words are rarely enough. And as you say you follow the Bears and that makes your question a lot easier to understand. Bottom line is that MLF drew up two great game plans for Willis. He wasn't asked to throw much, and when he did they were high-percentage plays. All good.