Duds vs Commanders

[tynimiller]

We're doing what bad teams do. Clean up any of one area and we win yesterday, we win last week and we win against the giants. 3-0 is a lot nicer than 0-3. It was the same yesterday. Missed opportunities on offense and defense. Dropped int's Dropped passes, PENALTIES erasing big plays or at least important ones, etc.

I don't think our Oline is going to be great, they can definitely be better than they've shown. If they block things up well instead of leaving a wide open faucet up the middle every other play, I think we can run an offense.

Our WR's aren't great, but if they just start making the easy plays, we'll have enough between that and run game to keep defenses somewhat honest and start scoring points. There's been some surges of that, and then they do something to derail it. Drop a pass, zero protection or run blocking, penalties, something to dig a whole we're not good enough to get out of anymore. But if we can limit that, we can be good enough to win a lot o games.

The defense can play at a very high level, we've seen it in pretty much every game. We need to give them some help from the offense and keep it more consistent and we should be fine. But we can't keep up this 1/2 or 3 quarters of football on that side of the ball either.

Yup! You can have the best roster but if your execution is as abysmal as ours is now you're lucky to have 3 wins honestly.

 

[Pugger]

Love is not the answer. Rodgers thumb looks like an eggplant and Love isn't playing. That should tell you something about what this 3rd year, #1 draft pick is capable of. Trading Rodgers last year or this year for a ton of picks isn't going to do anything. Has Gute done anything with drafting? This is bad top to bottom. Cut the head off the rotting fish and start over.

This! All of those pining for Love should consider that this might be why Love isn't playing. There is a reason why they are sticking with AR and his messed up thumb over Love right now.

Gute messed up big time over drafting Love. He then compounded the problem by not adequately addressing the WR room by either moving up in the last draft or signing a vet FA besides the fragile Watkins.

 

[tynimiller]

This! All of those pining for Love should consider that this might be why Love isn't playing. There is a reason why they are sticking with AR and his messed up thumb over Love right now.

Gute messed up big time over drafting Love. He then compounded the problem by not adequately addressing the WR room by either moving up in the last draft or signing a vet FA besides the fragile Watkins.

Um….things blew up just two pre seasons back….if Rodgers wants to play and they don’t play him the **** storm that would occur would be insanely high….

Love will not start over Rodgers unless he goes on IR, has a significant injury even Rodgers says is not playable, Rodgers is no longer on contract, or Love is doing so for a different team.

 

[Pugger]

We're doing what bad teams do. Clean up any of one area and we win yesterday, we win last week and we win against the giants. 3-0 is a lot nicer than 0-3. It was the same yesterday. Missed opportunities on offense and defense. Dropped int's Dropped passes, PENALTIES erasing big plays or at least important ones, etc.

I don't think our Oline is going to be great, they can definitely be better than they've shown. If they block things up well instead of leaving a wide open faucet up the middle every other play, I think we can run an offense.

Our WR's aren't great, but if they just start making the easy plays, we'll have enough between that and run game to keep defenses somewhat honest and start scoring points. There's been some surges of that, and then they do something to derail it. Drop a pass, zero protection or run blocking, penalties, something to dig a whole we're not good enough to get out of anymore. But if we can limit that, we can be good enough to win a lot o games.

The defense can play at a very high level, we've seen it in pretty much every game. We need to give them some help from the offense and keep it more consistent and we should be fine. But we can't keep up this 1/2 or 3 quarters of football on that side of the ball either.

Even with how poorly our offense has been if A. Rodgers doesn't muff that punt and give Washington 3 points we win. But you are right, losing teams do stupid things to ensure their demise.

 

[Schultz]

Dud- J. Alexander

 

[Mondio]

Dud- J. Alexander

worst part was, he was in position to make 3-4 big plays for us, and didn't make a single one and instead they ended up as big first downs and TD's for them.

 

[PackerDNA]

worst part was, he was in position to make 3-4 big plays for us, and didn't make a single one and instead they ended up as big first downs and TD's for them.

And after running his mouth that he wanted to be one-on-one with the other team's best receiver. Well he was yesterday, and McLaren tore him up

 

[OldSchool101]

Even with how poorly our offense has been if A. Rodgers doesn't muff that punt and give Washington 3 points we win. But you are right, losing teams do stupid things to ensure their demise.

On that singular part you are correct. However there is no good excuse for why we shouldn’t have had a 2 score Win yesterday. We played sloppy and poorly and those 3 points should never have decided this game to begin with. I fully understand that they did affect a Loss.. and that’s the problem right there. Lethargic play and poor execution on simple stuff.

The last play was a summary of this season. While it was a valiant attempt, what it really put on full display was total desperation and looked just pitiful.

 

[Pkrjones]

We're doing what bad teams do. Clean up any of one area and we win yesterday, we win last week and we win against the giants. 3-0 is a lot nicer than 0-3. It was the same yesterday. Missed opportunities on offense and defense. Dropped int's Dropped passes, PENALTIES erasing big plays or at least important ones, etc.

How many more garbage games before any one of those three areas gets "cleaned up"? We've had the same punt-dropper for 7 games making mistakes. We've had the same offense dropping passes, playcalling passes instead of runs, throwing 35 yard passes on 3rd & 6, & run blocking like a Freshman B team. We've had a defense playing like a professional team for a half, and then repeatedly not able to get off the field on 3rd & long or stop a run play for less than 8 yards/attempt.

Yes, all 3 phases are playing like dog-excrement... when can we expect a significant change for the better? At least in '21 we KNEW which one phase sucked-rocks... now there's only handful of players that aren't repeatedly F*#@+ing up. Any coaches that are performing well? No, didn't think so.

 

[Mondio]

How many more garbage games before any one of those three areas gets "cleaned up"? We've had the same punt-dropper for 7 games making mistakes. We've had the same offense dropping passes, playcalling passes instead of runs, throwing 35 yard passes on 3rd & 6, & run blocking like a Freshman B team. We've had a defense playing like a professional team for a half, and then repeatedly not able to get off the field on 3rd & long or stop a run play for less than 8 yards/attempt.

Yes, all 3 phases are playing like dog-excrement... when can we expect a significant change for the better? At least in '21 we KNEW which one phase sucked-rocks... now there's not only handful of players that aren't repeatedly F*#@+ing up. Any coaches that are performing? No, didn't think so.

wish I had answers, but they just need to do better. There's no savior coming. Linemen have to play with technique and quit holding. Their communication must get better. I'm hoping with the changes they start to improve some. Against the Jets Jenkins pointed out to Newman exactly who was coming and where and he completely ignored it. That has to stop, and with him out, I hope does.


The punt returner should have been changed this week already, I don't know why he's still in there. He's lost control of at least one return in every game, though we've been fortunate he hasn't lost them completely until now.

They couldn't execute a 4th and 1 either, so long or short, what's the difference? Our run game hasn't exactly been reliable either. Lots of negative or no gains putting us behind the sticks. Or we have penalties that put us behind and take away or run game.

Funny though, if Rodgers would have kept the ball and threw deep on the 4th and 1 we probably had a big play. But I chalk that up to miscommunication with a receiver that basically has been unavailable for the season and them needing a few games together to work it out. It happens.

 

[OldSchool101]

They couldn't execute a 4th and 1 either, so long or short, what's the difference? Our run game hasn't exactly been reliable either. Lots of negative or no gains putting us behind the sticks. Or we have penalties that put us behind and take away or run game.

Sure it’s not a must do to run needing a yard. I actually agree and certainly you want to mix it up and not be predictable. I still think you go with your hot hand. If your WR group, Slot etc.. is playing good like 80% catch rate then ok Maybe consider throwing It might depend on where/how the score and field position, clock is at.

Here’s a game that was 1 score for 3 Qtrs and for the first 7-8 running attempts we were averaging 4.3 per. (I was following that aspect on ESPN while listening to radio). So it’s not like they were shutting our run game down for repeated negative plays either. As evidence.. Dillon ran at one point later inside our 1 yard line backed up as much as you can be backed up in a hole. He ran for 4+ yards up the gut. You need 1 yard to move the chains and you’re already teetering in FG range. We are trying to do too much instead of winning a ball game.

There’s a 75% + chance Dillon get that 1st down. I like those odds. There’s a 50/50 chance he picks up 3+ yards and puts you into a 51-52 yard FG range… plus new downs.

12 rushes

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It should be obvious to everyone. I’ve been saying for years that no team is going to win a Super Bowl with just one top tier receiver (Adams) no matter how good he is. It’s a big reason why we‘ve fallen short in playoff games and why top defenses always create a nightmare matchup for us. And now we have zero top tier receivers. There’s no way for Rodgers to cover that up.

It's not just winning SB's and playoff games, its winning the big games with a FHOF QB. TT at least stocked Rodgers with some quality WR's and then he let the inventory go bad. Gute has compounded the problem with not allocating enough assets to both the WR and TE positions. Jimmy Graham was the closest he came to spending decent money on receivers and that was not very successful.

I do think Rodgers career is always going to include the conversation of the Packers not providing him with enough tools to be an elite team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Its hard for me to understand how that was not obvious to all.

Agreed and a few of us were saying it as far back as TT. I think some fans and it appears both TT and Gute, figured Rodgers was always going to be able to make up the difference.

 

[OldSchool101]

Agreed and a few of us were saying it as far back as TT. I think some fans and it appears both TT and Gute, figured Rodgers was always going to be able to make up the difference.

I guess it was risky going into this season with several WR with injury history. We’ve lost Watkins and Cobb and likely Watson to IR. We already had some ?? and we’ve averaged missing a WR or 2 almost every game. Not making excuses but it’s not been ideal

I’ll just offer that Lazard has not given me a vote of confidence. I think his ceiling is a low end WR2 and he likely needs a True WR1 playing alto even achieve that mark. Otherwise he’s a WR3 type

 

[Cornelius Weems]

AR is 31st in the NFL in QBR, and he got outplayed by a backup. His response to this was "I'm not worried" "We will get this figured out". Last week he was talking about simplifying things. My point is this team is 3.5 games back, and our HOF QB says they can turn it around, I've been watching the NFL for over 40 years and I don't see it even remotely happening. There are just too many leaks to fix on this team. If this wasn't a 17 game season with a 3rd wild card team (and the NFC south wasn't so bad), then they wouldn't have a chance of making the playoffs. This team is just trending badly, the Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

 

[Magooch]

It's not just winning SB's and playoff games, its winning the big games with a FHOF QB. TT at least stocked Rodgers with some quality WR's and then he let the inventory go bad. Gute has compounded the problem with not allocating enough assets to both the WR and TE positions. Jimmy Graham was the closest he came to spending decent money on receivers and that was not very successful.

I do think Rodgers career is always going to include the conversation of the Packers not providing him with enough tools to be an elite team.

Anecdotally speaking this seems to largely be the consensus amongst non-Packer fans.*
That's not to say Rodgers shares no part in the blame but I think that by and large it seems like in the Rodgers-era we've either been let down by simply not having the same amount of talent on offense as our competitors or by failings on defense/special teams. Rodgers hasn't been perfect but in general Packers fans seem to be much, MUCH more critical of him than non-Packer fans are; for the better part of the last decade I'm pretty confident that about 30 or so out of 32 teams would happily swap QBs with us in a heartbeat.

In whatever case, I think the bottom line is that when compared to other "contenders" he has often not had the same level of support. I suspect if you compared up and down the roster it would become pretty apparent that other top QBs have either had A.) better support on the offensive side of the ball; B.) More support from their team's defense/special teams; or C.) both.

Like I said, he hasn't been perfect, but I suspect that years from now when looking back on Rodgers' career and/or legacy the conversation is going to be heavily skewed towards "The Packers let down Rodgers" and much less towards "Rodgers let down the Packers" on the whole.

*Well, at least it was before Rodgers' "immunization" comments and subsequent follow-up remarks. Now he seems to be viewed much more critically by a large portion of the media...

 

[MadCat]

AR is 31st in the NFL in QBR, and he got outplayed by a backup. His response to this was "I'm not worried" "We will get this figured out". Last week he was talking about simplifying things. My point is this team is 3.5 games back, and our HOF QB says they can turn it around, I've been watching the NFL for over 40 years and I don't see it even remotely happening. There are just too many leaks to fix on this team. If this wasn't a 17 game season with a 3rd wild card team (and the NFC south wasn't so bad), then they wouldn't have a chance of making the playoffs. This team is just trending badly, the Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

Him saying those things is the only thing that gives me any hope. And I believe him (for now anyway).

But let’s face it… what else can he say? Can you imagine what would happen if he spewed the kind of stuff that’s on this forum?

 

[Magooch]

I guess it was risky going into this season with several WR with injury history. We’ve lost Watkins and Cobb and likely Watson to IR. We already had some ?? and we’ve averaged missing a WR or 2 almost every game. Not making excuses but it’s not been ideal

I’ll just offer that Lazard has not given me a vote of confidence. I think his ceiling is a low end WR2 and he likely needs a True WR1 playing alto even achieve that mark. Otherwise he’s a WR3 type

I think it's becoming more and more clear that even the best-case scenario for our WR room was probably never going to be enough. Even if everyone's healthy we don't have a "real" WR1 and there's simply nobody who defenses are particularly scared of at the moment. Maybe if Watson absolutely exploded immediately upon suiting up the outlook would be different but that was always going to be a bit of a prayer.

Someone said the other day that none of our WRs would start for other teams. I think that's a bit hyperbolic but frankly the teams that our guys would start for are not teams that we would probably want to be associated with right now. Betting odds right now have the Bills, the Eagles, and the Chiefs as favorites to win the Super Bowl. Consider their top 5 WR/TE options:

Rec/Yards/TD
Bills: Stefon Diggs (49/656/6), Gabriel Davis (14/383/4), Isaiah McKenzie (17/162/3), Dawson Knox (15/148/1), Khalil Shakir (6/112/1)
Eagles: AJ Brown (33/503/2), DeVonta Smith (33/397/2), Dallas Goedert (26/357/1), Quez Watkins (6/88/1), Zach Pascal (6/40/0)
Chiefs: Travis Kelce (47/553/7), Juju Smith-Schuster (34/494/2), MVS (22/369/0), Mecole Hardman (19/218/3), Skyy Moore (6/100/0)
Packers: Lazard (26/340/4), Cobb (18/257/0), Tonyan (30/251/1), Doubs (26/234/2), Watkins (8/147/0)

How many of our guys would be getting significant minutes/reps for any of those teams? No disrespect to Lazard but our current "WR1" is likely a 3rd or 4th option right now for other contenders...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess it was risky going into this season with several WR with injury history.

I would add to that, 2 rookies as well. It is no secret that Rodgers seems to require time to get on the same page as his receivers. So to expect Watkins, Watson and Doubs, to step in and play like starting WR's right away, would have been a mistake. While I like Lazard for his ability to block and make some decent catches, he is far from being a #1 WR.

What should have been done years ago, is just that "would of could of". The task ahead for the Packers is to decide if this is fixable in the short term or not. I said it a number of weeks ago and the only way that happens is if players suddenly improve quite a bit, that includes the OL. While we see glimpses of it, it hasn't been enough in totality. Amari Rodgers makes a few plays yesterday and both Lazard and Doubs don't. I see a bright future for Doubs and Watson, but I don't see that starting this season and maybe not even by next. Watkins has to stay healthy and get on the same page as Rodgers. Perhaps trading for Chase Claypool is wise, but could also be something we don't see much of a return on until late season.

3-4 is hardly a season that should be written off, but it is really hard to see the offense improving fast enough to beat better teams than the Jets, Giants and Commanders. 4 out of the next 5 games are against teams that are wither at the top of their divisions (Eagles, Titans, Bills) or 1 game out (Cowboys). I can see a scenario where the Packers are 4-8 at the end of November.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would add to that, 2 rookies as well. It is no secret that Rodgers seems to require time to get on the same page as his receivers. So to expect Watkins, Watson and Doubs, to step in and play like starting WR's right away, would have been a mistake. While I like Lazard for his ability to block and make some decent catches, he is far from being a #1 WR.

What should have been done years ago, is just that "would of could of". The task ahead for the Packers is to decide if this is fixable in the short term or not. I said it a number of weeks ago and the only way that happens is if players suddenly improve quite a bit, that includes the OL. While we see glimpses of it, it hasn't been enough in totality. Amari Rodgers makes a few plays yesterday and both Lazard and Doubs don't. I see a bright future for Doubs and Watson, but I don't see that starting this season and maybe not even by next. Watkins has to stay healthy and get on the same page as Rodgers. Perhaps trading for Chase Claypool is wise, but could also be something we don't see much of a return on until late season.

3-4 is hardly a season that should be written off, but it is really hard to see the offense improving fast enough to beat better teams than the Jets, Giants and Commanders. 4 out of the next 5 games are against teams that are wither at the top of their divisions (Eagles, Titans, Bills) or 1 game out (Cowboys). I can see a scenario where the Packers are 4-8 at the end of November.

I agree because I said the probability meter swung heavily on this Loss.

A Win would’ve likely bought us substantial time. At 4-3 we likely go 4-4 and playing the Lions. At 5-4 we just Dallas but that puts 2 of our toughest 4 games behind us and 5-5 at worst.

Instead we are likely 3-5 hosting the Lions for our entire season. 3-6 and we are done.

That said. Being the optimist that I am (after I express my displeasure). If Gute gets Claypool tomorrow. The Packers WR room suddenly looks decent.
Claypool, Watkins, Lazard and
Doubs as a 4th option? That’s much more in line. We’d likely be getting Cobb or Watson back for the Titans at GB. So if we can get Claypool acclimated by The Lions game we’ve still got life. For me anyways, spending a 2nd Rounder to give us a chance at the playoffs is worth it.
My belief is if we can get in that
24-26 points per game scored, our Defense wouldn’t have to carry us every game and 20 points allowed per contest suddenly wins us some games.
I just realized outside that D touchdown. Our O is scoring 17.3 per game! No wonder why the D struggles

 

[PackerDNA]

I don't see it best any better than 10 and 7, which might get in the playoffs on the tiebreaker. With the eagles, cowboys, bills, dolphins, titans, rams, and Vikings still coming up even that's going to be tough to do. There's likely at least three losses in that

 

[PackerDNA]

As far as wide receiver trades I'd be targeting guys on every team and they can calls instead of the short list we've been hearing about. For example, if his hammy is okay, somebody like Keenan Allen of the chargers.

 

[Magooch]

I agree because I said the probability meter swung heavily on this Loss.

A Win would’ve likely bought us substantial time. At 4-3 we likely go 4-4 and playing the Lions. At 5-4 we just Dallas but that puts 2 of our toughest 4 games behind us and 5-5 at worst.

Instead we are likely 3-5 hosting the Lions for our entire season. 3-6 and we are done.

That said. Being the optimist that I am (after I express my displeasure). If Gute gets Claypool tomorrow. The Packers WR room suddenly looks decent.
Claypool, Watkins, Lazard and
Doubs as a 4th option? That’s much more in line. We’d likely be getting Cobb or Watson back for the Titans at GB. So if we can get Claypool acclimated by The Lions game we’ve still got life. For me anyways, spending a 2nd Rounder to give us a chance at the playoffs is worth it.
My belief is if we can get in that
24-26 points per game scored, our Defense wouldn’t have to carry us every game and 20 points allowed per contest suddenly wins us some games.
I just realized outside that D touchdown. Our O is scoring 17.3 per game! No wonder why the D struggles

Yep.
Much like PFF they're certainly not gospel but I enjoy looking at 538's metrics from time to time. Here's how our playoff odds have progressed by their measure:

Preseason - 74% to make playoffs (3rd highest behind Bills/Buccaneers). FWIW they also put us at 9% to win Super Bowl (tied for second with Bucs at 9% behind Bills at 10%)

After losing to the Vikings - 56% to make playoffs
After beating the Bears - 62% to make playoffs
After beating the Bucs - 77% to make playoffs
After beating the Patriots - 80% to make playoffs
After losing to the Giants - 66% to make playoffs
After losing to the Jets - 41% to make playoffs
After losing to the Commanders - 26% to make playoffs (and currently at 0.8% to win Super Bowl, lol)

Preseason our projected record was 11-6 with a point differential of +79.2; current projections are 8-9 with a point differential of -30.5 (8 wins seems generous to me at the moment though...)

 

[tynimiller]

As far as wide receiver trades I'd be targeting guys on every team and they can calls instead of the short list we've been hearing about. For example, if his hammy is okay, somebody like Keenan Allen of the chargers.

I mean shoot I'd be all over that, however you have to have a team that is willing to be in a sell mode - the Chargers are not rebuilding or in sell mode.

 

[OldSchool101]

As far as wide receiver trades I'd be targeting guys on every team and they can calls instead of the short list we've been hearing about. For example, if his hammy is okay, somebody like Keenan Allen of the chargers.

He’s a fine option but he’d cost us over 10M+ towards our Cap. Nor sure if we could swing that?

That short list are Rookie contracts that cost less than $2M prorated.
So for me personally, I’d rather pull back monetarily and spend a draft pick or two vs a big cap hit