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Deleted member 6794
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I understand McCarthy being confident in the defense being abke to keep the Falcons out of the end zone as the unit was able to force a three amd out on the previous drive.
Atlanta studs and duds
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I understand McCarthy being confident in the defense being abke to keep the Falcons out of the end zone as the unit was able to force a three amd out on the previous drive.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
This article pretty much sums up my feelings about it. Mainly the final paragraph.
http://markbradley.blog.myajc.com/2016/10/31/should-the-packers-have-let-the-falcons-score-sooner/
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Deleted member 6794
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It seems we have to agree to disagree on the topic.
PackerFanLV
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Studs: Aaron, devonte, G-Mo, Davis, Janis, Rip, Oline, Jordy, Martinez, Gunter-I learned this guy is far better playing zone then he is playing on a island something like Asante samuel. Kentrell Brice: Man that guy had some good hits in the game it was a pleasure seeing that from a defense I think lost its physical aspect of the game.
Duds:MM-This Guy clock management is horrible. before the half he had chances to use timeouts to give the offense time to score and he never used them he just let the falcons run clock down and score. Also this game at the end of the game we only needed 3 yards for a first down and this guys calls plays receivers running 9s no one had a short pass. The falcons D was giving the short passes up easy. MM doesnt know how to adjust in game. He has no since of feel for the game .
micha Hyde: All I do is see this guy chasing people around the football ball field like dude do he have any instinct at all?? its like he sees his guy catches the ball and chases him hes never jumping a route or detouring a receivers route.
HaHa Dix: Where the heck has this dude been this season??
Capers: uhhh not so much because this guy was hired to do what hes best at, he's a blitzing aggressive defensive coach. But over the past few years this dude is delt scraps. Hes delt undrafted rookies guys he have to convert from receiver to corner, outside LBs that have to play middle line backer I can keep going but i wont.
Ryan: He looked lost alot out there yesterday.
Duds:MM-This Guy clock management is horrible. before the half he had chances to use timeouts to give the offense time to score and he never used them he just let the falcons run clock down and score. Also this game at the end of the game we only needed 3 yards for a first down and this guys calls plays receivers running 9s no one had a short pass. The falcons D was giving the short passes up easy. MM doesnt know how to adjust in game. He has no since of feel for the game .
micha Hyde: All I do is see this guy chasing people around the football ball field like dude do he have any instinct at all?? its like he sees his guy catches the ball and chases him hes never jumping a route or detouring a receivers route.
HaHa Dix: Where the heck has this dude been this season??
Capers: uhhh not so much because this guy was hired to do what hes best at, he's a blitzing aggressive defensive coach. But over the past few years this dude is delt scraps. Hes delt undrafted rookies guys he have to convert from receiver to corner, outside LBs that have to play middle line backer I can keep going but i wont.
Ryan: He looked lost alot out there yesterday.
OldSchool101
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I'm sort of in the middle. It depends on several factors but mainly the flow of the game. Our banged up D against the #1 Offense is one scenario I'd use this method.
I'd have to weigh field position (such as them being inside the 15 or so) against the clock (under 2 min)so timeouts are a factor. Remember that we already put up 32 points at this juncture. We would instantly be in 4 down territory but you lose that benefit with only around 30 sec because each play at best is 7 sec. however, we get the 4th down benefit at least once or twice with 90+ sec on the clock and I'm quite sure we would've made their 30 yard line for the win. Just my opinion.
It seems that way. It does make me wonder why a timeout would be charged with a stopped clock as it apparently was though.
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Deleted member 6794
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Gunter is for sure better in man coverage especially when he jams the receiver at the LOS. The Packers providing him with help over the top with a safety doesn't mean the defense was playing zone.
It seems you missed that the Packers scored a field goal right before halftime.
I'm not sure why you are that optimistic about that as the Packers weren't able to get a single first down on that drive.
A team is charged a timeout within the last two minutes as long as it has at least one remaining unless the injury is a result of a foul by an opponent.
gopkrs
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Surprised nobody seems to have mentioned Schum. I was really surprised when the ball was on our 20 and he kicked it 50+ yards. He had his best day ever. Maybe he can kick it long. I was very surprised.
For me, the thing about the timeouts. If we go 3 and out after they don't score (which would be likely if we were just going to run and use the clock); Atlanta might have had good time left to try again.
For me, the thing about the timeouts. If we go 3 and out after they don't score (which would be likely if we were just going to run and use the clock); Atlanta might have had good time left to try again.
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Deleted member 6794
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I haven't thought about that so far, good point.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I did....but oh well
Had the Packers used their 2 timeouts after the 2 minute warning and gotten the ball back on downs, most likely that adds at most 80 seconds, which Atlanta in turn would have used their 2 timeouts to save, still leaves room for 1 kneel down, a punt and giving the Atlanta the ball back having to score a TD with very little time or timeouts.
Yes... I read that when you posted the rule. I wasn't questioning your interpretation, I was questioning the rule itself. If the clock is already stopped and the injury does not hold up the game why the need to penalize the team by taking a timeout? And if the team has no timeout.... why no 10 second run off unless the clock is running....
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HardRightEdge
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It came to me in flash! The ultimate solution!
Don't allow the opponent to march down the field, 75 yards in the final 4 minutes, thus losing the game. The fact Atlanta had 2 timeouts they did not need to use makes the point all that much sharper.
We've seen this time and time again, where Capers goes into bend-don't-break mode with the lead, getting pushed back into his own red zone where he can make a final stand in the short field. Occasionally it works out, like against SD last season, but somehow it fails against better competition.
If fans and analysts searched their heart of hearts (or rewound the tape), they would know that the reason they are obsessed with the offense, where less than 30 points is a disappointment, they would realize where that uneasy feeling they get in the back half of the 4th. quarter with less than a 9 point lead against teams with decent offenses actually comes from.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Sadly, when it comes to the Packers, easier said than done. Which is probably why I had the fleeting fear of "this is going to happen (Atlanta scores a TD) and if it does, may AR have enough time to counter it".
Watching the Packers shift into prevent defense is always a worry to me. Ultimately, it comes down to players stepping up and doing their jobs, but history has shown the Packers defense tends to overbend in that situation. Sometimes I wonder if opposing offenses shouldn't just take the field at the start of the game and play like each drive was to decide the game with little time on the clock. But in that situation, I doubt Capers bites and switches to prevent defense.
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HardRightEdge
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The names change, the results are the same. For example, take our all-time favorite, though not evident in the Atlanta game: dime defense, rush 3 / drop 8. How do you give up an open zone in the middle for a first down or give up the sidelines to stop the clock with equal facility?
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HardRightEdge
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He was mentioned, but just slightly to your point. There are good and bad reasons for that.
The good reason would be that a guy who has performed badly from the get go needs some extended period of out-performance or consistent improvement to be acknowledged. That seems reasonable, just as giving a guy with a record of at least decent performance deserves some slack for a bad game or two.
The bad reason would be ego...having relentlessly bashed a guy it can be difficult to flip flop even if the mind set is "what have you done for me lately".
By the way, those punts the last few games have not only been long but also well positioned.
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Vince Lombardi
Cheesehead
Studs:
Rodgers
Rip
Adams
Offense in general
Duds:
Defense - I'm sick of the Packers score late to take the lead only to have the defense give it back story. Year in and year out its the same story. Doesn't matter if we have all 11 starters healthy or we have a hodge podge defense. Capers just can't figure out how to close out a game....Why in the hell was Jake Ryan responsible for deep middle coverage? Just stupid!
MM - Call a Timeout!!!! Why let the clock run down to 31 seconds? Call a timeout and give you team a chance!
Rodgers
Rip
Adams
Offense in general
Duds:
Defense - I'm sick of the Packers score late to take the lead only to have the defense give it back story. Year in and year out its the same story. Doesn't matter if we have all 11 starters healthy or we have a hodge podge defense. Capers just can't figure out how to close out a game....Why in the hell was Jake Ryan responsible for deep middle coverage? Just stupid!
MM - Call a Timeout!!!! Why let the clock run down to 31 seconds? Call a timeout and give you team a chance!
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HardRightEdge
Guest
I'll give "semi-stud" to Zook for Davis' punt return.
I've been complaining about lousy punt return blocking for quite some time, observing in the off-season that Hyde's poor stats last season were more about having guys always in his face than anything else.
Last week I observed that Zook has consistently used single-team blocking on punt gunners, evidently playing for the block. My expressed desire was that he might, just might, want to consider setting up for a return once in a while.
On Davis' punt return, shock of shocks, Zook double-teamed both gunners! Now, the gunners on Davis' left diverted the gunner but didn't lay a hand on him, and he was closing fast. But the guys on Davis' right did the job, providing a lot of separation which was the key to the return.
If you don't allow your guy to get some immediate giddyup in his gitalong, he's not going anywhere.
I've been complaining about lousy punt return blocking for quite some time, observing in the off-season that Hyde's poor stats last season were more about having guys always in his face than anything else.
Last week I observed that Zook has consistently used single-team blocking on punt gunners, evidently playing for the block. My expressed desire was that he might, just might, want to consider setting up for a return once in a while.
On Davis' punt return, shock of shocks, Zook double-teamed both gunners! Now, the gunners on Davis' left diverted the gunner but didn't lay a hand on him, and he was closing fast. But the guys on Davis' right did the job, providing a lot of separation which was the key to the return.
If you don't allow your guy to get some immediate giddyup in his gitalong, he's not going anywhere.
gopkrs
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Surprised to see my name by that quote...Doesn't sound like something I would say. Anyway, I actually thought we played a very good game. I was pleasantly surprised to see how well our DBs played against the offensive juggernaut that is the falcons. We have some good depth. It took really good throws as most of the time we were playing pretty tight. That we could not get a good pass rush did not help the DBs at all. Certainly agree that consistently going with prevent defenses is the way to allow the other team to march down the field.
OldSchool101
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True. But we both know that the play calls are based on down and distance but also with time factored in. With 30 seconds left we statistically needed to force 10-15 yard chunks to get in FG range. That same example with 90 sec in 4th down territory?, I believe we can run a hurry up with 5-10 yard chunks which are more our statistical average without forcing throws.
The point I'm making isn't best represented in the result we had last Sunday because we failed to give Aaron adequate time. IMO 30 sec to get a FG is a low probability drive any which way you slice it.
In another forum, someone used Tom Brady's ability to get a FG with 30 seconds left in the first half last week to argue Aaron's incompetence. After researching..even Tom Brady only needed to move the ball 27 yards to achieve that last second FG (which in our scenario would've left us with a 65 yard FG.. that ain't gonna happen)
Simply put, using the clock is a choice of letting our D win vs letting our Offense win and there are only rare cases we should employ this strategy l I know it's against the grain of everything a team strives for on the face of it. I would personally rather have Aaron dictating the outcome than allowing their Offense to intentionally and willfully drain the game clock.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
I already responded to the idea of letting them score. My response to you was to the alternate idea of using time outs differently. I see now others are posting revisionist history backtracking through the 4th. quarter to other moments of tertiary importance. I could have responded to those.
My point is that all of these alternate scenarios are overthinking the matter. You end up chaining together a series of if/then propositions where a break in one link invalidates the projected scenario.
There was a singular do-or-die, us-against-them moment that determined the outcome of the game. The opponent needs to go 75 yards in 4 minutes with 2 timeouts. A FG won't do. The situation is in your favor. If you succeed you win, and all is right with the world. If you fail you lose, and deservedly so.
Creating scenarios such that the do-or-die moment can be avoided simply reinforces the fact that Capers' defenses have been lousy closers.
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nobody was crying. But you mean to tell me he wasn't in an excellent position to pick that ball off? I didn't see a replay, but if he didn't touch, that's part of the problem. he should have and been gone for the game cinching touchdown. It's plays like that getting left on the field why we aren't winning big games.
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HardRightEdge
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The TV commentators' first take is often wrong, and if you're not paying attention close attention to the replays you might not notice how often they don't correct themselves either.
It looked like Gunter might have "touched" the ball, but when somebody else touches the ball first altering it's path it cannot be regarded as a missed opportunity. Mostly those balls don't get caught even by the very best receivers; when they do catch it, defender or receiver, it should be viewed as an unexpected outcome.
Same thing with Nelson's bobbling catch on that skinny post. The first commentator take was, to paraphrase, "If Nelson had caught that ball cleanly he had open space in front of him. I don't think the defender touched it." Well, the end zone replay showed the defender did in fact touch it, altering the ball's slightly path. It was a good catch.
The commetators? No correction made.
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HardRightEdge
Guest
That's a problem.
did they show one?
regardless, those are plays that are there to be made on defense. They need to start making them. Randall stepped in front and took the ball right away from someone earlier this year. I see those plays made and missed all the time. I'm not saying he sucks, but he was in the right place at the right time to seal this game for us. If we want to start winning against good teams, those are plays we need to make. You disagree?
