2023 53 Man Roster Speculation...

AmishMafia

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The problem with Stokes is Joe Barry's soft coverages. Stokes and Alexander are good man to man DB's. Playing zone just takes them out of matchups where their likelihood if success is high to a poor matchup.
Guys that shine as rookies are usually top talents because they do well even though they're inexperienced. Stokes could be a star in the NFL but not with Joe Barry.
I see it the same way. Tale of two games was Minny last season. Zone coverage 1st game Jefferson had anything he wanted. 2nd game Alexander on him in man, a much different story. I trust Barry learned something from that.

I sometimes wonder if they are doing too much moneyball stuff, though and focusing on a stat as an objective.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The fact that they went kicker there makes me believe there wasn't anyone left on their board that screamed must get prospect. IMO.
So by your "logic", you assume that the 49'ers went kicker with their #99 pick, you know, because "there wasn't anyone left on their board that screamed must get prospect"? Same with the Patriots selecting Chad Ryland at #112?

You are an interesting Duck, Schultz. Always trying to find a way to be disagreeable with certain posters, I assume posters you don't like. I stated an opinion on the Packers drafting Kuntz. Instead of taking an approach on telling me why you are glad they didn't, you state that they couldn't have gotten him in the 7th round. When I prove you to be wrong on that, you don't bow out, but then you take your argument to another extreme opinion of "oh they didn't like Kuntz, because they took a K in the 6th round".

Use some actual solid logic, don't feel like you have to disagree, just to disagree.
 

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So by your "logic", you assume that the 49'ers went kicker with their #99 pick, you know, because "there wasn't anyone left on their board that screamed must get prospect"? Same with the Patriots selecting Chad Ryland at #112?

You are an interesting Duck, Schultz. Always trying to find a way to be disagreeable with certain posters, I assume posters you don't like. I stated an opinion on the Packers drafting Kuntz. Instead of taking an approach on telling me why you are glad they didn't, you state that they couldn't have gotten him in the 7th round. When I prove you to be wrong on that, you don't bow out, but then you take your argument to another extreme opinion of "oh they didn't like Kuntz, because they took a K in the 6th round".

Use some actual solid logic, don't feel like you have to disagree, just to disagree.
I disagree. In some cases, the issue might be whether or not there are guys that are needed more than the potential of the kicker they see available at this given point. I used to believe that it was the free agents after the draft that you brought in to kick, but then I remember how Ray Guy was the 23rd pick in his draft, and spent an incredible career with the Raiders, ending up as the only punter in history, to be in the HOF.

I realize he was a punter, not a kicker, but I think you see what I mean. Ray became one of the Raiders best defensive weapons, by pinning opponents deep constantly. He was so amazing to watch. Every time he punted a football people would collectively hold their breath, wondering how he could kick it so high, and so deep.

Sadly, Ray passed away last year, down in Mississippi. A special man, with an amazing talent.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I disagree. In some cases, the issue might be whether or not there are guys that are needed more than the potential of the kicker they see available at this given point. I used to believe that it was the free agents after the draft that you brought in to kick
I am a firm believer of using a draft pick on a punter or kicker, that the team feels is head and shoulders above the others. Otherwise, you are competing with a lot of teams to try and sign said player, IF they go undrafted. I have been saying that for years.

Anyway, that was not my point. I stated that I would have loved to have seen the Packers select Kuntz. Schultz counters that with "they couldn't have taken him in round 7". I prove him wrong and then he doubles down with "the Packers selected a kicker in round 6, because they didn't like anyone else on the board." No, they selected Carlson, because he was either highest on their board and/or they didn't think he would be around much longer.

I have no issue with Anders Carlson being picked in the 6th round, the Packers obviously had him as a priority K and a definite need. Much like Clifford being selected way ahead of what many here projected, so they didn't like the pick.
 

gopkrs

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I am a firm believer of using a draft pick on a punter or kicker, that the team feels is head and shoulders above the others. Otherwise, you are competing with a lot of teams to try and sign said player, IF they go undrafted. I have been saying that for years.

Anyway, that was not my point. I stated that I would have loved to have seen the Packers select Kuntz. Schultz counters that with "they couldn't have taken him in round 7". I prove him wrong and then he doubles down with "the Packers selected a kicker in round 6, because they didn't like anyone else on the board." No, they selected Carlson, because he was either highest on their board and/or they didn't think he would be around much longer.

I have no issue with Anders Carlson being picked in the 6th round, the Packers obviously had him as a priority K and a definite need. Much like Clifford being selected way ahead of what many here projected, so they didn't like the pick.
I think too much is made of draft picks after the 4th or 5th round. I pretty much have a wait and see attitude about all of them. Except maybe a kicker since not many teams want to take one before that. Sometimes it sounds like we are talking of a day two pick.
 

Schultz

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So by your "logic", you assume that the 49'ers went kicker with their #99 pick, you know, because "there wasn't anyone left on their board that screamed must get prospect"? Same with the Patriots selecting Chad Ryland at #112?

You are an interesting Duck, Schultz. Always trying to find a way to be disagreeable with certain posters, I assume posters you don't like. I stated an opinion on the Packers drafting Kuntz. Instead of taking an approach on telling me why you are glad they didn't, you state that they couldn't have gotten him in the 7th round. When I prove you to be wrong on that, you don't bow out, but then you take your argument to another extreme opinion of "oh they didn't like Kuntz, because they took a K in the 6th round".

Use some actual solid logic, don't feel like you have to disagree, just to disagree.
My logic is they couldn't have drafted Kuntz in the 7th round because he was gone before they picked in the 7th round. You countered, using hindsight of knowing when Kuntz was drafted with a trade scenario that IMO has rarely if ever happened. My logic is they didn't like Kuntz that much because they didn't draft him. I correctly pointed out that they selected a kicker with their last pick before he was taken. My point was as Oldschool pointed out an average of 1.8 kickers have been selected in the last 10 years. IMO a message board where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya and agrees with each other about how good the FO is, the players are and the team is going to be is pretty boring. I really hope you guys are right, but that will not stop me from giving my opinion or disagreeing with other posters.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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IMO a message board where everyone holds hands and sings Kumbaya and agrees with each other about how good the FO is, the players are and the team is going to be is pretty boring. I really hope you guys are right, but that will not stop me from giving my opinion or disagreeing with other posters.
Ah, I see, so you feel that without you being the fly in the ointment, this forum would just be a boring place? Either you are that full of yourself or you once again want to create a strawman argument, to condone what you do.

For the record, I could care less if someone disagreed on my opinion of Kuntz and my desire to have had him be drafted by the Packers. You didn't agree or disagree with that, instead you decided to nit pick and say "it couldn't have happened."
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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I think too much is made of draft picks after the 4th or 5th round. I pretty much have a wait and see attitude about all of them. Except maybe a kicker since not many teams want to take one before that. Sometimes it sounds like we are talking of a day two pick.
I kind of view rounds 6 and 7 as a way of grabbing guys, that a team likes enough to draft and not risk someone else doing the same or having to compete with other teams in the UDFA process. Maybe guys they see as excellent special teamers or guys that with some coaching, could be a major hit. But for most positions, you probably aren't drafting a guy in the 6th and 7th round that you view as an instant starter.

Now with K's, P's and even LS's, the draft is always interesting. "When do you draft one, if you need one?" We have seen teams like Tampa Bay grab a kicker (Roberto Aguayo) that they must have just been in love with, in Round 2 (59th pick). They even traded their 3rd and 4th round pick to move up to get him. Aquayo flops and it is a scar that the franchise still carries. Yet, look at all the 2nd round flops (non-kickers/punters) that all teams have had and have for the most part been forgotten. The Packers had a similar flop with K Brett Conway, when they used a 3rd round pick (#90). This year, the 49'ers used their second pick in the draft (#99) to select K Jake Moody. A guy I hoped the Packers would select, but not until the 6th or 7th round.

I guess what I am trying to say is if your team is in need of a K, P or LS, go get him in the draft, because you will probably get a guy that is viewed as one of the best out of college. When in the draft do you select him, can just be a total guessing game.
 
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So by your "logic", you assume that the 49'ers went kicker with their #99 pick, you know, because "there wasn't anyone left on their board that screamed must get prospect"? Same with the Patriots selecting Chad Ryland at #112?

You are an interesting Duck, Schultz. Always trying to find a way to be disagreeable with certain posters, I assume posters you don't like. I stated an opinion on the Packers drafting Kuntz. Instead of taking an approach on telling me why you are glad they didn't, you state that they couldn't have gotten him in the 7th round. When I prove you to be wrong on that, you don't bow out, but then you take your argument to another extreme opinion of "oh they didn't like Kuntz, because they took a K in the 6th round".

Use some actual solid logic, don't feel like you have to disagree, just to disagree.
I’m convinced some people like being combative. I sometimes get that way on my 3rd cup of coffee though so I get it though. Lol.
 
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milani

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It's still early, but outside of maybe one late signing or moving the brunt of the 2023 roster is somewhere within those here presently...I'll take a stab at what I envision it looks like:

Offense - 24
QB (2) - Love / Clifford
RB (2) - Jones / Dillon
TE (4) - Deguara / Davis / Musgrave / Kraft
WR (7) - Watson / Doubs / Toure / Reed / Wicks / Watts / WR not on our roster presently
OL (9) - Bakh / Jenkins / Myers / Tom / Yosh / Runyan / Tenuta/ Walker & one of Rhyan or Newman

Defense - 26
DL (6) - Clark / Wyatt / Slaton / Ford / Wooden / Brooks
LBs (9) - Walker / Campbell / McDuffie / Preston / Gary / Enagbare / Cox / Van Ness / Carpenter
CB (5) - Jaire / Rasul / Stokes / Nixon / Valentine
S (6) - Savage / Ford / Leavitt / Johnson Jr / Moore / Owens

ST - 3
K - Anders
P - O'Donnell
LS - Orzech


We bank on Jones and Dillon being our bell cows with a bet that one of Taylor / Goodson and Nichols at least worst case don't get picked up and we can stash one or two on PS
Etling is likely safe on our PS...if not nab a project elsewhere and add a PS QB
WR...we likely retain two at least of Cotton / Dubose / Melton / Heath...I think Duece is the surprise make it.
Personally I think we trade Newman for some 6th or 7th type pick like we've done in the past rather than cold cut him...perhaps Rhyan is that but as much as I liked Newman, I don't see the progression possible like I used to.
Now include also Punt Return and Kickoff Return. Who do you indicate to be those positions?
 
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Good thought. I think Nixon gets the bulk of returns. I wouldn’t be shocked to see us use Reed in some capacity as a second return man (similar to Cobb, but initially more limited).
Maybe that question wasn’t directed at me. if so disregard.
 
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Ah, I see, so you feel that without you being the fly in the ointment, this forum would just be a boring place? Either you are that full of yourself or you once again want to create a strawman argument, to condone what you do.

For the record, I could care less if someone disagreed on my opinion of Kuntz and my desire to have had him be drafted by the Packers. You didn't agree or disagree with that, instead you decided to nit pick and say "it couldn't have happened."
Totally agree here. I think it’s generally ok to disagree with a poster. However if doing becomes a regular pattern or commonplace then the minimal expectation without permeating some degree of disdain is a proper response. A minimal level of respect for disagreeing with others should include making a rebound assertion of what should be done differently. Otherwise it comes across as having an aroma of pretense.

Btw. I would’ve loved to had Zack Kuntz, What an athlete. That’s sort of the idea of what I meant when I said take a K with our 7th rounder. Kuntz is a superior athlete that I’d take a chance on at #207 and roll the dice. I’m just a bigger gambler there, looking across the board 80%+ chance Anders is still there with #232/235. In hindsight I’d say 98% chance we’d still get Anders.

I’m not shunning Gutenkunst, just stating my own advice from above. Stating my own plan B, which I should’ve done earlier. Although ok I get it, K is pretty important once we gave Mason his walking papers, so I understand the logic there also.
 
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Schultz

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You may want to go back and read some of your buddy's posts that were directed towards me. Or not.
 
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You may want to go back and read some of your buddy's posts that were directed towards me. Or not.
No I won’t become part of your guys little rift. Not everything I say is directed at you specifically. If they become self condemning then maybe they are meant for you and vice versus. My thoughts were more generic in nature. I was simply referring to a small group of posters who commonly and often like to disagree because they hold some past grudge and then their buddies who freely pile on with likes in almost a High School like fashion or like a drive by shooting. Without any logical answer as to what they would do differently. It’s called “playing it safe” and thankfully it’s a pretty small group because if we all practiced this, we’d drive each other absolutely mad. Might surprise you at my motivations. I more prefer to stick to ideas about our football team and roster ideas we each have.
If I want to argue I’ll call my X wife, it comes natural for her. She’s actually good at it.

What did you think about Kuntz? Or other players we did bring aboard.
 
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Schultz

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No love for Kuntz. I have been very clear not liking the QB and K picks. Loved Van Ness, Musgrave, Wooden, Brooks, Nichols & Johnson. I have a wait and see, the jury is still out on Reed, Kraft, Wicks, Valentine and DuBose.
 
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No love for Kuntz. I have been very clear not liking the QB and K picks. Loved Van Ness, Musgrave, Wooden, Brooks, Nichols & Johnson. I have a wait and see, the jury is still out on Reed, Kraft, Wicks, Valentine and DuBose.
Good stuff. I will say from everything I’ve been reading about Kraft in particular post-draft is he’s very unique in that he’s very raw. That’s a compliment because he functioned well with brute strength, but he needs major refinement. Yet he’s simultaneously one of the best overall well-rounded TE’s in the 2023 draft class. He refused offers from big schools like Alabama. He stayed loyal to win a FCS Championship and ironically came back just in time to do exactly that. I respect a guy who stays true to his convictions and his Daddy raised him right. Had Kraft not suffered an injury last season, he was gearing up to be a clear, Round 2 TE in the strongest TE draft in 5 seasons. Tucker isn’t blazing fast, but he’s deceptively quick with the ball in his hands and not easy to take down. Good stiff arm and strong as an Ox from his farming days. With some refinement by a good coach, he’s quite possibly capable of TE1 if given time.
 
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tynimiller

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Now include also Punt Return and Kickoff Return. Who do you indicate to be those positions?

On of the others. Whether that is Nixon, Goodson, Reed or whomever those spots are not eating a roster slot.
 
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This could be one area to shine while others are not.
Reed is very reminiscent of Nixon in the return game. I think even Nixon made some reference to Reed’s Return prowess. I’m not sure the mix though after league rule changes.
Nixon should see the bulk though. As of stated. He’s the best pure return guy we’ve had since Desmond Howard. No one gets “lucky” that often.
 

milani

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Reed is very reminiscent of Nixon in the return game. I think even Nixon made some reference to Reed’s Return prowess. I’m not sure the mix though after league rule changes.
Nixon should see the bulk though. As of stated. He’s the best pure return guy we’ve had since Desmond Howard. No one gets “lucky” that often.
Indeed.
Reed is very reminiscent of Nixon in the return game. I think even Nixon made some reference to Reed’s Return prowess. I’m not sure the mix though after league rule changes.
Nixon should see the bulk though. As of stated. He’s the best pure return guy we’ve had since Desmond Howard. No one gets “lucky” that often.
 
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For the first time in quite a long time, I can honestly say that I really like the potential of the Packer receiving room (WR's and TE's). I think there is a ton of upside in that room and by 2024 or 2025, if they can all keep progressing and stay healthy, it could be one of the best we have seen in awhile.

That's a huge "if" though. It's entirely possible the Packers end up having one of the worst receiving corps in the league for quite some time if that doesn't happen.

This might initially sound trivial, but the bottom of our WR group is strong.

First of all I would feel more better if the top of the Packers' wide receiving group would be strong. In addition there's no way of knowing if your statement is true.

So on the Bakh front...I honestly believe he's waiting to see what Love is. If Love is everything Gute/MLF seem to think I 100% picture Bakh extending and doing so at a reasonable number as GB would arguably be the most likely spot to win a ring perhaps.

I'm convinced Bakhtiari would have a better chance of winning a ring in 2024 with a lot of other teams than the Packers.

Meanwhile, the Packers have a guy like Tom and Josh, that potentially could slide in at LT, without much of a drop-off.

Bakhtiari is still one of the best left tackles in the league when healthy. I would expect a huge drop-off with either Nijman or Tom starting in his place.

Possibly. We have a surplus of good CB’s but big questions at Safety.

The Packers depth chart at cornerback currently includes Alexander, Douglas, Stokes and unproven talent. I don't consider that to be a surplus of good CBs.
 
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tynimiller

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I'm convinced Bakhtiari would have a better chance of winning a ring in 2024 with a lot of other teams than the Packers.

Zero clue on the 2024 front until the 2023 plays out. If Love comes out slinging it well, Packers very well could explode into that realm of possibility. I fully expect if not, and Bakh still wants to play a relocation is in his future and he will embrace it even.
 
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First of all I would feel more better if the top of the Packers' wide receiving group would be strong. In addition there's no way of knowing if your statement is true.
Is there any fan who wouldn’t want the top of any position group strong? See how I similarly responded with a such feeble attempt at shaming. ;)

Captain. If I recall correctly this is a forum and its contents are a massive amount of posts based on pure opinion. Do we need to supply you with proof of every last opinion? Have I ever asked you for proof when you say “I’m convinced” (which is your trademark) about anything? I’ll answer that for you. No I haven’t and if every opinion in here required concrete proof.. it wouldn’t be opinion and we wouldn’t need a forum. It would be just a blog of facts with no ability to reply.

Oh! Welcome back @captainWIMM !:)
 
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